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Thread: Rand Paul Blasts AOC, Bernie, Says They Support Policies of Stalin, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by tebowlives View Post
    It used to be welfare when it began imo. Now I doubt anyone gets their money back, especially if you include interest.
    Lots of people do. And lots of people don't. A big part of it depends on how long you live. But yes, for each successive generation, the hope for getting back an amount commensurate to what they paid in with decent interest gets less and less.
    Last edited by Superfluous Man; 10-29-2019 at 12:05 PM.



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  3. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    You basically just lied about the definition of a Ponzi scheme. Again the definition of a Ponzi scheme.

    A Ponzi scheme is a form of fraud that lures investors and pays profits to earlier investors with funds from more recent investors.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

    You conflated the term Ponzi scheme with a pyramid scheme. While they are similar, they are not the same.



    If you never heard me talk about issues other than SS then you are lying or just not paying attention.

    Lastly, the idea that SS is in trouble because it was "diluted" or "raided" or whatever is a myth.

    https://www.fool.com/retirement/2016...-bankrupt.aspx

    More complete blsht from drake;

    Investors believe that their investment payouts are based upon profits that the item earns, the schemes
    are short lived due to the exponential pyramid nature, investors have no idea that a hundred of them just paid off
    two earlier investors and so on, in that fashion, there is nothing substantive to justify the characterization that
    Ponzi and SS are the same thing or based on the same plan.
    I've already explained these facts to you very clearly and you ignore them each time so fk off and have a nice life.

  4. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    More complete blsht from drake;

    Investors believe that their investment payouts are based upon profits that the item earns, the schemes
    are short lived due to the exponential pyramid nature, investors have no idea that a hundred of them just paid off
    two earlier investors and so on, in that fashion, there is nothing substantive to justify the characterization that
    Ponzi and SS are the same thing or based on the same plan.
    I've already explained these facts to you very clearly and you ignore them each time so fk off and have a nice life.
    LOL. I quoted an actual source on the definition of a Ponzi scheme, you called it "bull$#@!", and you didn't provide any source for your argument. Typical alt-righter.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  5. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by tebowlives View Post
    It used to be welfare when it began imo. Now I doubt anyone gets their money back, especially if you include interest.
    Hmmmm.....a scheme were the early investors get their money back and the later investors likely do not. Hmmm.....what on earth do you call that?
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  6. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    so fk off and have a nice life.
    Infraction given. I'm going to start hammering away at any one who continues to post like this.

    Please report these types of posts.

  7. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by tebowlives View Post
    It used to be welfare when it began imo. Now I doubt anyone gets their money back, especially if you include interest.
    I would agree with this statement , some but not all of the first generation got a bit of a leg up on the system.

    I can't say , on average, but of course there are some that have gotten lots more back through better life/health choices and dumb luck, and
    then certainly some die at 30.
    This brings us back again to the mismanagement of SS, there should be some kind of compounding
    interest on the funds you contribute, and the program should be limited to servicing it's original purpose .



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  9. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    I would agree with this statement , some but not all of the first generation got a bit of a leg up on the system.

    I can't say , on average, but of course there are some that have gotten lots more back through better life/health choices and dumb luck, and
    then certainly some die at 30.
    This brings us back again to the mismanagement of SS, there should be some kind of compounding
    interest on the funds you contribute, and the program should be limited to servicing it's original purpose .
    I respect the last reply you made to me but I've gotta ask just one simple question:

    Why not just let young people opt out?

    If the funds are NOT coming from the young and going to the old, as you claim, then there shouldn't be any problem, right?

    I think it would be MUCH easier to do that, than to make sure you have a continuous succession of political candidates all uniformly and tirelessly focused in their efforts to reform social security so that the money isn't being used for all those extra things you mention. Pretty far fetched to think that is gonna happen. To really put in the amount of effort it will take, you will not only have to get a majority of congress to come to an agreement, but the plan to reform it is going likely going to take more than 2 years a congressional term lasts, which means you're going to have to keep sending congress critters to D.C. who are in agreement with the people they're replacing, to see it followed through.
    I just don't see that happening. No one in congress has that much discipline or a mandate long enough to see it through.

    The only thing that would make opting-out NOT easy, would be if the plan *IS* in fact reliant on a majority of younger workers to pay out to the minority of retirees—which would make it a [something] scheme.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 10-29-2019 at 11:44 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  10. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Hmmmm.....a scheme were the early investors get their money back and the later investors likely do not. Hmmm.....what on earth do you call that?
    The early bird who gets the worm. Like the housing crash. That wasn't a ponzi scheme either.

  11. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    I respect the last reply you made to me but I've gotta ask just one simple question:

    Why not just let young people opt out?

    If the funds are NOT coming from the young and going to the old, as you claim, then there shouldn't be any problem, right?

    I think it would be MUCH easier to do that, than to make sure you have a continuous succession of political candidates all uniformly and tirelessly focused in their efforts to reform social security so that the money isn't being used for all those extra things you mention. Pretty far fetched to think that is gonna happen. To really put in the amount of effort it will take, you will not only have to get a majority of congress to come to an agreement, but the plan to reform it is going likely going to take more than 2 years a congressional term lasts, which means you're going to have to keep sending congress critters to D.C. who are in agreement with the people they're replacing, to see it followed through.
    I just don't see that happening. No one in congress has that much discipline or a mandate long enough to see it through.

    The only thing that would make opting-out NOT easy, would be if the plan *IS* in fact reliant on a majority of younger workers to pay out to the minority of retirees—which would make it a [something] scheme.
    Unless I missed something in this thread, maybe this is something you got from another thread but why do you think Strato is in favor of Social Security?

    Your question "Why not just let young people opt out? ", leads me to believe that you think he is in favor of SS. Am I correct?

  12. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by tebowlives View Post
    Unless I missed something in this thread, maybe this is something you got from another thread but why do you think Strato is in favor of Social Security?

    Your question "Why not just let young people opt out? ", leads me to believe that you think he is in favor of SS. Am I correct?
    He said it was one of the only sensible government programs. Everything he's said sure sounds to me like he does support it.

  13. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    He said it was one of the only sensible government programs. Everything he's said sure sounds to me like he does support it.
    Except for the inability to opt out, for a government program it's not too bad. For a government program.

  14. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by tebowlives View Post
    Except for the inability to opt out, for a government program it's not too bad. For a government program.
    That inability to opt out is no small matter. And for something as expensive as Social Security that affects as many people as it does, that makes it one of the most economically destructive government programs.

  15. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by tebowlives View Post
    Some? If the initial budget vote passes with a low 50s percent, he has a yuge amount of influence. Often enough, the President can control the budget.
    If he doesn't allow his own party to have its spending desires he will very quickly be faced with a supermajority overriding his veto to pass a compromise budget backed by both parties.
    His influence level is determined by the politics of his party members in the House and Senate combined with their power level in each.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump would have a veto overridden just as Rand's amendment was voted down.
    And he didn't threaten a veto because the total was too small but because the military budget was too small, if he got to right the budget without considering Congress he would cut or eliminate many things.
    And ^that is why we have deficits as far as the eye can see! There is absolutely no reason to be doing anything but CUTTING military spending. Even Reagan's budget director David Stockman understands this.

    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  18. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    And ^that is why we have deficits as far as the eye can see! There is absolutely no reason to be doing anything but CUTTING military spending. Even Reagan's budget director David Stockman understands this.

    I agree, I would cut it 50% just for a start without looking at it in detail.
    But my point was that Trump would eliminate or severely cut other things, he doesn't want to just keep increasing the deficit.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  19. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I agree, I would cut it 50% just for a start without looking at it in detail.
    But my point was that Trump would eliminate or severely cut other things, he doesn't want to just keep increasing the deficit.
    But he is just increasing the deficit. And he's taking off the table a priori any significant cuts.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  20. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    But he is just increasing the deficit. And he's taking off the table a priori any significant cuts.
    I don't think he is perfect but Congress is most of the problem, they just proved it when all but 24 Senators voted against Rand's 2% cut.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't think he is perfect but Congress is most of the problem, they just proved it when all but 24 Senators voted against Rand's 2% cut.
    Okay. But note that I wasn't singling out Trump as "the problem." The problem has always been that republicans protect increases in defense spending while democrats protect increases in social spending and they "compromise" by increasing spending in everything!! That's why Rand's across the board spending cut got such little support. Trump is a symptom rather than a cause.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  22. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    And ^that is why we have deficits as far as the eye can see! There is absolutely no reason to be doing anything but CUTTING military spending. Even Reagan's budget director David Stockman understands this.
    I am not sure why you would say even David Stockman. He has always been a budget hawk.

    It is worth noting that military spending is not the reason for the budget deficits. It goes without saying that military spending and empire should be rolled back. I know it is a Ron Paul talking point to cut military spending to save Social Security but it would be a drop in the bucket. Entitlement spending is everything. Joe Biden even brought this up to refute Medicare for All. You could eliminate the military and it wouldn't fund medicare for all.

    I favor cuts in defense spending—I favor cuts in spending almost everywhere—but thinking about President Eisenhower earlier today (I do that a lot) made me want to put contemporary military spending into perspective.In 1957, the nation was more or less at peace, the budget ran a small surplus, and we spent 9.8 percent of GDP on national defense. That was down sharply from the years immediately before (winding down of Korean War expenses, I guess) but quite a bit higher than it was in 1950 and 1951. In 1950, we spent only 4.9 percent of GDP on national defense, half that 1957 number.

    This year, we’re going to spend about 3.3 percent of GDP on national defense.

    That’s less than we spent during the first Clinton administration, a fairly peaceable time


    Don’t let anybody tell you that it is out-of-control military spending that is holding us back. When it comes to the one thing the federal government really has to spend money on, we’re spending less than we did in the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, or 1990s.
    https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...-d-williamson/


    Also "Welfare vs. Defense, By the Numbers

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...-d-williamson/
    Last edited by Krugminator2; 10-29-2019 at 03:37 PM.

  23. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    I am not sure why you would say even David Stockman. He has always been a budget hawk.

    It is worth noting that military spending is not the reason for the budget deficits. It goes without saying that military spending and empire should be rolled back. I know it is a Ron Paul talking point to cut military spending to save Social Security but it would be a drop in the bucket. Entitlement spending is everything. Joe Biden even brought this up to refute Medicare for All. You could eliminate the military and it wouldn't fund medicare for all.



    https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...-d-williamson/


    Also "Welfare vs. Defense, By the Numbers

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...-d-williamson/
    It's not military spending by itself that is causing deficits it's the fact that cutting other programs is not politically viable when you are needlessly increasing military spending! It's the "compromise" that's the problem. You back my increase, I'll back your increase. I seriously thought everybody knew that.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  24. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    It's not military spending by itself that is causing deficits it's the fact that cutting other programs is not politically viable when you are needlessly increasing military spending! It's the "compromise" that's the problem. You back my increase, I'll back your increase. I seriously thought everybody knew that.
    That's a good point. Plus I posted those links mainly for my own benefit. I was really surprised how big of a problem entitlement spending is when I first saw the stats. And I was surprised to learn the US spends a much smaller percentage of the economy on the military than it has historically.

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