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Thread: Kate Steinle Verdict - Not Guilty

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    a bullet from that type of handgun to hit the ground first then travel 300 yards will not have much energy.
    A football field is 100 yds.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    A football field is 100 yds.
    Sorry, meant feet...
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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Sorry, meant feet...
    That's what I figured.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    If it was deliberate, he was a heck of a shot.

    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...030-story.html
    "appeared". Call me skeptical about that evaluation. I would guess it would have to hit the ground further away (lesser angle) from the shooter to maintain it's energy to kill her. No doubt no one did any experiments to confirm or deny the hypothesis. Now if he was shooting at a bird on the ground, then 15 feet away might make sense, but that excuse was never used.

    While it wouldn't be terribly hard for an experienced shooter to hit a person at 100 yards (taking their time), there would be some (bad) luck involved for a beginner. He may have been aiming at a seal, or the father, or people on the pier in general. But it lined up with Kate.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

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  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That's what I figured.

    it is still possible, but most Feds load hollow point, and they would destruct hitting the ground. But maybe it was a different type of round.
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    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


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    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    it is still possible, but most Feds load hollow point, and they would destruct hitting the ground. But maybe it was a different type of round.
    I thought that govt. workers use FMJ.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #37
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  10. #38
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    Even the people in Mexico and Latin America are sick of these $#@!birds. Some of the most vigilant border wall advocates are former immigrants who went through the legal process.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I thought that govt. workers use FMJ.
    I don’t know. From my experience, I thought the opposite.

    http://libertynews.com/2013/02/feds-...ow-point-ammo/
    Last edited by Danke; 11-30-2017 at 11:01 PM.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Nope, not being let in or being kicked out of a place you were not allowed is not a tragedy.

    [FONT=&]

    The drug war is a separate issue.
    Nope.
    Not since it's creation has it been separated from anything.

    The entire legal "system" the MASSIVE INCREASE IN ENFORCERS OF CONTROL,
    Several wars, and related foreign policy

    and the Economy..

    Hell yes it is an issue.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Nope.
    Not since it's creation has it been separated from anything.

    The entire legal "system" the MASSIVE INCREASE IN ENFORCERS OF CONTROL,
    Several wars, and related foreign policy

    and the Economy..

    Hell yes it is an issue.
    It is a BIG issue, but it is a separate issue, we can control our borders and immigration AND de-criminalize ALL drugs, it would probably even help with border security.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    "appeared". Call me skeptical about that evaluation. I would guess it would have to hit the ground further away (lesser angle) from the shooter to maintain it's energy to kill her. No doubt no one did any experiments to confirm or deny the hypothesis. Now if he was shooting at a bird on the ground, then 15 feet away might make sense, but that excuse was never used.

    While it wouldn't be terribly hard for an experienced shooter to hit a person at 100 yards (taking their time), there would be some (bad) luck involved for a beginner. He may have been aiming at a seal, or the father, or people on the pier in general. But it lined up with Kate.
    Without performing the actual trigonometry, if the bullet hit her in the back (assume something like four feet off the ground) 300 feet past the ricochet and the point of the ricochet was about 15 feet from where he was, that gun wasn't very far off the ground when it went off. She was 20 times farther from that point than he was.

    Garcia Zarate said he found the gun wrapped in a T-shirt on the pier and it accidentally fired when he picked it up.
    Authorities returned to the popular pier four days later, after the bullet was found to be partially flattened, indicating it had ricocheted, he said.
    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...030-story.html

    OK- using an online calculator figuring four feet high and 300 feet away, the angle off the pier was 0.78 degrees. Granted a bullet will lose height over that distance. Figuring 15 feet as the distance from the gun to the ricochet point, it gives me about 0.2 feet off the ground.
    http://www.cleavebooks.co.uk/scol/calrtri.htm

    I have seen different figures for how far away she was from the ricochet. This article claims 78 feet: http://abc7news.com/expert-for-defen...ullet/2610897/

    That gives me an angle of three degrees and an estimated height of 0.77 feet.

    (edited to correct calculations- I missed a decimal point in the original one I posted)

    From that article:

    First, he testified that the trigger pull of the gun used to shoot Kate Steinle was light, about four pounds when left in single action mode, meaning ready to fire.

    "If someone were to try to grab it or catch it or if it caught on an article of clothing, it could discharge and we're talking about an extremely light trigger pull," Norris testified.

    Initially, Garcia Zarate told police he found the stolen gun at the pier and that it went off when he stepped on it, but later admitted to holding the gun wrapped in a piece of cloth and examining it when it went of.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 11-30-2017 at 11:59 PM.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It is a BIG issue, but it is a separate issue, we can control our borders and immigration AND de-criminalize ALL drugs, it would probably even help with border security.
    I have never been a fan of Authoritarian Control. and see no need for it in most cases.

    Perhaps if you support Authoritarian Govt, it seems logical. (it would)

    I can not.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    I have never been a fan of Authoritarian Control. and see no need for it in most cases.

    Perhaps if you support Authoritarian Govt, it seems logical. (it would)

    I can not.
    I believe the world is full of people who want to destroy freedom, we have too many of them already here, we have to control who comes here or we will not be able to keep what we have let alone get more, the closer we get to true freedom the more true this principle becomes.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I believe the world is full of people who want to destroy freedom, we have too many of them already here, we have to control who comes here or we will not be able to keep what we have let alone get more, the closer we get to true freedom the more true this principle becomes.
    Is that like " I have to destroy the free market to save it?

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Is that like " I have to destroy the free market to save it?
    NO.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    NO.
    Hmmm

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Hmmm
    Hmmmmmmmm...........
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Hmmmmmmmm...........
    So if we build a 50 foot inpenetrable wall, Dobie can be free?

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    So if we build a 50 foot inpenetrable wall, Dobie can be free?
    Who or what is dobie?

    In any case if you control your border you can be as free as you allow yourself to be inside it, if you leave it you can only be as free as the people outside allow you to be, if you don't control it you can only be as free as whoever crosses it allows you to be.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Who or what is dobie?

    In any case if you control your border you can be as free as you allow yourself to be inside it, if you leave it you can only be as free as the people outside allow you to be, if you don't control it you can only be as free as whoever crosses it allows you to be.
    Lol, sounds like a plan.

  26. #52
    classic jury nullification ; and they elected Roy moore

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by cindy25 View Post
    classic jury nullification ; and they elected Roy moore
    ???
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    If you mean that deporting innocent people is a tragedy, I agree.



    Sure it does, see above

    Seven victimless crimes...

    And the monstrous offense for which he was being held in San Fransisco before they released him?



    The horror...
    (8) Felon in possession of a firearm, (9) felon firing weapon within city limits, (10) felon violating the Marine Mammal Protection Act of 1972.
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius

    They’re not buying it. CNN, you dumb bastards!” — President Trump 2020

    Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Without performing the actual trigonometry, if the bullet hit her in the back (assume something like four feet off the ground) 300 feet past the ricochet and the point of the ricochet was about 15 feet from where he was, that gun wasn't very far off the ground when it went off. She was 20 times farther from that point than he was.

    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...030-story.html

    OK- using an online calculator figuring four feet high and 300 feet away, the angle off the pier was 0.78 degrees. Granted a bullet will lose height over that distance. Figuring 15 feet as the distance from the gun to the ricochet point, it gives me about 0.2 feet off the ground.
    http://www.cleavebooks.co.uk/scol/calrtri.htm

    I have seen different figures for how far away she was from the ricochet. This article claims 78 feet: http://abc7news.com/expert-for-defen...ullet/2610897/
    You can speculate all day long. First of all, I am a skeptic, and I have little faith that the true trajectory was discovered, or will ever be known. I don't trust that the "mark" they found on the ground was where the bullet first hit. Maybe it ricocheted off of something else. Maybe it ricocheted off a purse buckle or a bone. Maybe it didn't ricochet at all.

    I don't know, you don't know, and I don't trust that the cops (or even a scientist) would know for sure.

    What we do know is that it came from that gun, and hit her. That is the known fact.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by cindy25 View Post
    classic jury nullification ; and they elected Roy moore
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    ???
    I believe the point is that this verdict will create some right wing backlash. Maybe in the Roy Moore vote, and very likely with the immigration/wall issue.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The drug war is a separate issue.
    No, illegal immigration as we've been seeing for 40 years now is a consequence of our so-called War on Drugs. Humans don't uproot en mass from communities, customs, and land they've been familiar with for generations, unless those communities are being destroyed by man or environment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Weston White View Post
    (8) Felon in possession of a firearm, (9) felon firing weapon within city limits, (10) felon violating the Marine Mammal Protection Act of 1972.
    If he wasn't everybody's poster child for this or that, just some mug, he'd be cooling for a long time, but we have careers to consider and feelings to foment.
    Last edited by Raginfridus; 12-01-2017 at 01:10 PM.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    Once again, you people who think an armed population would have prevented this, are very, very wrong. Once the shot was fired, there was no saving Kate.
    Non sequitur.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    Well, you are right about her being dead and armed populace would not have stopped it however you are forgetting the "justice" part of this equation. If an armed person had pulled out his gun and killed the creep at least he would not be walking free tonight.

    I don't believe that "borders" will stop these kinds of crimes (they never had and they never will). Crimes will not go away. Your goonerment will never keep you safe. Laws are a joke. If you want to be safe you must provide for your own safety however you can. If you feel that carrying a gun makes you safer (I would agree) then carry one...
    As per usual, sir:

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ChristianAnarchist again.

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    No, illegal immigration as we've been seeing for 40 years now is a consequence of our so-called War on Drugs. Humans don't uproot en mass from communities, customs, and land they've been familiar with for generations, unless those communities are being destroyed by man or environment.
    The issues DO interact but they are separate, as I said above:

    It is a BIG issue, but it is a separate issue, we can control our borders and immigration AND de-criminalize ALL drugs, it would probably even help with border security.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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