Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 91 to 97 of 97

Thread: Survey: Roughly half of Americans in favor of UBI welfare

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I'm not sure it matters but I was assuming a government university. Anyway you're simply wrong. It costs money for a student to attend a university. You have to pay for the teacher's fees, buildings, etc, etc. That money would have to come from new taxes.
    Taxes that were already collected and budgeted, the government need only allow the student to attend sans tuition and then reduce the budget for the college (or wherever the money was diverted).
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Taxes that were already collected and budgeted, the government need only allow the student to attend sans tuition and then reduce the budget for the college (or wherever the money was diverted).
    For your sake I hope you're just messing with me.

  4. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    For your sake I hope you're just messing with me.
    I would say the same to you, spreading the theft around is a bad idea, we can't afford SS payments and they are fundamentally wrong, we need to eliminate the program as much and as fast as we can if the economy is to be saved.

    Government has stolen too much from too many in too many ways to even consider using government to repay those who have been stolen from.

    If the world ever gets too far out of balance we may have to track down the oligarchs and take their stolen wealth from them and redistribute it to the public they and their ancestors have stolen from, BUT THAT IS TO BE AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS SINCE THE PRECEDENT IT SETS IS TRULY UNTHINKABLE.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  5. #94
    Ideally, any welfare program (such as social security) would be immediately abolished, and the victims fully compensated, as with any other criminal enterprise. Unfortunately, when the tortfeasor is the state, which has no property other than what it steals on a periodic basis (taxes), compensation would not be just (it would require the robbery of further victims to compensate the previous victims). HOWEVER, if we are going to assume that the welfare program will continue, as apparently it will, it would be sensible to least penalize those who've already been victimized the most: i.e. to cut the least the benefits of those who've already paid the most in taxes. The overarching goal has to be to minimize future robbery, period, but if there are multiple methods of accomplishing that, which are otherwise equal, it makes sense to choose the method which least harms those who've already been most harmed. So, for instance, "means testing" is inferior to an across the board cut in benefits.

  6. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Ideally, any welfare program (such as social security) would be immediately abolished, and the victims fully compensated, as with any other criminal enterprise. Unfortunately, when the tortfeasor is the state, which has no property other than what it steals on a periodic basis (taxes), compensation would not be just (it would require the robbery of further victims to compensate the previous victims). HOWEVER, if we are going to assume that the welfare program will continue, as apparently it will, it would be sensible to least penalize those who've already been victimized the most: i.e. to cut the least the benefits of those who've already paid the most in taxes. The overarching goal has to be to minimize future robbery, period, but if there are multiple methods of accomplishing that, which are otherwise equal, it makes sense to choose the method which least harms those who've already been most harmed. So, for instance, "means testing" is inferior to an across the board cut in benefits.
    I agree. My point is not that people have some sort of "absolute right" to social security, since they were previously robbed. But it should be factored in. And if your goal is to eliminate social security and encourage saving for retirement, means testing will backfire since it rewards NOT saving for retirement.

    Like I said earlier, I think the best plan is to gradually reduce the benefits and gradually reduce the amount taken.

  7. #96
    Finland's basic income trial falls flat

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43866700

    By Laurence Peter
    BBC News
    23 April 2018
    Euro notes, file picImage copyrightGETTY IMAGES
    The Finnish government has decided not to expand a limited trial in paying people a basic income, which has drawn much international interest.
    Currently 2,000 unemployed Finns are receiving a flat monthly payment of €560 (£490; $685) as basic income.
    "The eagerness of the government is evaporating. They rejected extra funding [for it]," said Olli Kangas, one of the experiment's designers.
    Some see basic income as a way to get unemployed people into temporary jobs.
    The argument is that, if paid universally, basic income would provide a guaranteed safety net. That would help to address insecurities associated with the "gig" economy, where workers do not have staff contracts.
    Supporters say basic income would boost mobility in the labour market as people would still have an income between jobs.
    Finland's two-year pilot scheme started in January 2017, making it the first European country to test an unconditional basic income. The 2,000 participants - all unemployed - were chosen randomly.
    But it will not be extended after this year, as the government is now examining other schemes for reforming the Finnish social security system.
    "I'm a little disappointed that the government decided not to expand it," said Prof Kangas, a researcher at the Social Insurance Institution (Kela), a Finnish government agency.
    Speaking to the BBC from Turku, he said the government had turned down Kela's request for €40-70m extra to fund basic income for a group of employed Finns, instead of limiting the experiment to 2,000 unemployed people.



  8. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  9. #97
    If automation increases enough youd pretty much have to have UBI. Either that or cut what is considered full time employment in half or something in order for there to even be enough jobs available and those jobs in turn would need to significantly increase pay.

    And yes UBI could eliminate social security, food stamps, tax credits, etc. Do not see how it coulf cut medicare since that is medical insurance and different in cost based on the person. UBI wouldnt be tax free. Itd push everyones income up some so most likely everyone's tax burden would go up some extent. That is how it would be phased out. And yeah a tax on monopolies and companies benefitting the most from automation could offset the rest. I am pretty sure we will see it eventually. More of a when than an if. Unfortunately I see it being implemented very poorly just like all government systems.

    Edit: Finlands trial seems odd. Unemployed only and a rather small amount. And they wont even publish the results until next year. Seems like it was more of just an unemployment welfare test than anything.
    Last edited by ChaosControl; 04-24-2018 at 05:33 PM.

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234


Similar Threads

  1. Over half of college students favor speech restrictions.
    By Anti Federalist in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: 10-30-2015, 09:15 AM
  2. Report: More than half of immigrants on welfare
    By William R in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 09-03-2015, 02:13 PM
  3. Contrary to MSM - Cops Do Not Favor More Gun Control - New Survey
    By TonySutton in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-09-2013, 12:11 PM
  4. Nearly half of long-term U.S. immigrants are on welfare
    By green73 in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 08-08-2012, 11:07 AM
  5. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-11-2012, 03:19 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •