Trump says German crime levels have risen and refugees are to blame. Not exactly.

[RJB]

Perhaps:
Immigrant crime decreased
New immigrants are less criminally inclined than past immigrants
?

Or government/media complexes with agendas can't be trusted?

[dannno]

What is his source?)

Population Figures:

http://www.insee.fr/fr/publications-...nvier-2014.htm

Prison Population:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...s-prisons.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...T2008042802857

Asylum Applications

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/product...tz%C2%A0%C2%A0

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/product...igr_asyappctza

French law does not allow the reporting on the religion of inmates.

Discussed in the video, around 15:19 along with the rest of the material I've posted:

Are they recent immigrants? (the subject of the thread))

Doesn't matter if you are thinking about the future. Second, third generation immigration problems will come eventually from current widespread immigration.

(note this was about Germany)

Germany and France are in Europe, in fact they are right next each other.

[dannno]

You didn't read through the article if this is what you're trying to "refute" it with.

The article claimed that Donald Trump was wrong and that Muslim criminality is at about the same level as non-Muslim criminality, I shared a graph that shows Muslims are incarcerated at 20 times the rate of non-Muslims in the country right next door with the same Muslim immigrant issues. It would be one thing if it was like 15% higher or something, but we are talking about 20 times higher. That is extraordinary, and other European countries are having the same issue (see Belgium graph above). Thus Donald Trump is right and the media is wrong. Pretty $#@!ing simple dude.

[KEEF]

I do too. The old one we payed heed to Ron Paul and what he had to say especially with regard to other political aspirants.

True dat

[TER]

Or government/media complexes with agendas can't be trusted?

Yep. Why should we suspect any of their data to be true when it is already pretty established they are being manipulated by a group of international bankers? They own the media, for goodness sake. They own it because they first own the banks!!! Now, as was the reason the whole time, they have bought out the governments of nations, who are losing their sovergnity, to a cabal of money-lusting murderers.

[Antischism]

The article claimed that Donald Trump was wrong and that Muslim criminality is at about the same level as non-Muslim criminality, I shared a graph that shows Muslims are incarcerated at 20 times the rate of non-Muslims in the country right next door with the same Muslim immigrant issues. It would be one thing if it was like 15% higher or something, but we are talking about 20 times higher. That is extraordinary, and other European countries are having the same issue (see Belgium graph above). Thus Donald Trump is right and the media is wrong. Pretty $#@!ing simple dude.

Trump's comments were about Germany, no? The article takes a look at those specific claims. It's also more nuanced than you're letting on if you read through the entire thing. For example

It might be too early to gauge the full effect of the refugee influx on crime levels in Germany, and there are certainly issues that nobody can deny. There has been an increase in crimes motivated by religion or ethnicity — those numbers include brawls among asylum seekers and terrorism-related offenses. There has been a sharp rise in extremism, and there have been worrying incidents of mass sexual assaults.

Leaked police documents recently suggested that at least 1,200 women were sexually assaulted in Germany on New Year's Eve. Half of the identified suspects were recently arrived foreign nationals.

For many Germans, the New Year's Eve incidents constituted a level of criminality previously unknown. But, overall, crime in Germany has not risen to "levels no one thought they would ever see."

Moreover, what Trump forgot to mention is that one of German authorities' biggest worries is the violent backlash against refugees from the far right. Hundreds of asylum centers have been burned down since last year, and refugees have been physically harmed in attacks. Those attacks have contributed to the increase in crimes motivated by religion or ethnicity, investigators say.

[angelatc]

Trump is correct. In the US as well as in Germany they are manipulating the data to fit the pro-open borders migrant narrative and of course the resident 2016 RPF propagandists push the narrative like the trained or paid dogs they are. I miss the old RPF.

+1776

[dannno]

Trump's comments were about Germany, no? The article takes a look at those specific claims. It's also more nuanced than you're letting on if you read through the entire thing. For example

Ok, so I'm reading your quotes... seems to be saying that Trump is right, but Germans are ok with it, but Asylum centers are being attacked by Germans (which contradicts their last claim) and that bringing in more refugees will likely lead to a race war.

I have an idea, let's become so pro-multiculturalism and pro-tolerance that we go seek out probably the least tolerant group of people on the planet and pay them to come in the name of tolerance and multi-culturalism. Let's just see how long all that tolerance lasts.

[Danke]

Trump's comments were about Germany, no? The article takes a look at those specific claims. It's also more nuanced than you're letting on if you read through the entire thing. For example

Gernany:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016...wing-radicals/

Already posted. Neg rep for being a dumbass again.

[puppetmaster]

Ten years ago: "In Berlin, young male immigrants are three times more likely to commit violent crimes than their German peers. It's a similar story across Europe."
http://www.dw.com/en/identifying-the...rime/a-1953916

Now: "the influx of refugees in Germany has not led to increased crime rates. Crimes committed by refugees stood at the same level as those committed by native Germans"
http://www.dw.com/en/report-refugees...any/a-18848890

So how to reconcile these data points? I'm not sure and I can't find the studies themselves.

Perhaps:
Immigrant crime decreased
New immigrants are less criminally inclined than past immigrants
?

it called fudge the numbers....we do it all the time with unemployment numbers. People are gullible

[milgram]

Yes yes, government statistics. But without seeing the source data to make a 1:1 comparison I'm not going to assume anything.

I found this large chart of 2014 crime stats by nationality in Germany. I noticed that Syrians offend at a low rate compared to other Arab or African immigrants. So if the "Syrian refugees" really came from Syria, they might not be committing a lot of crime.

https://img.pr0gramm.com/2016/01/26/...d7df321868.jpg

[Antischism]

Ok, so I'm reading your quotes... seems to be saying that Trump is right, but Germans are ok with it, but Asylum centers are being attacked by Germans (which contradicts their last claim) and that bringing in more refugees will likely lead to a race war.

I have an idea, let's become so pro-multiculturalism and pro-tolerance that we go seek out probably the least tolerant group of people on the planet and pay them to come in the name of tolerance and multi-culturalism. Let's just see how long all that tolerance lasts.

No, here's what the article is responding to and saying:

Trump

"And you know what a disaster this massive immigration has been to Germany and the people of Germany — crime has risen to levels that no one thought they would ever see. We have enough problems in our country, we don’t need another one."

Crime data

"Immigrants are not more criminal than Germans," a ministry spokesman was quoted as saying. Syrians, Iraqis and Afghans committed fewer crimes than refugees from other countries. Overall, crime levels have declined over the first quarter of the year, officials said.

Article

A more honest way of describing what has happened in Germany since early 2015 would be to note that some forms of crime have been on the rise, while others have decreased. The refugees most likely to come to the United States should Hillary Clinton be elected — namely, from Syria — have committed fewer crimes overall than other immigrants in Germany.

That's basically it. Trump greatly exaggerated to paint this bleak picture and spread fear, when in fact, Germany hasn't seen a rise in crime to "levels that no one thought they would ever see."


Here's another article that tackles a similar statement.

Trump said Germany "is crime-riddled right now" because of migration to Europe.

There are more criminal acts in Germany these days because there are more people, thanks to the influx of 1.1 million refugees in 2015 alone.

But the data suggests that the refugees tend to be better-behaved than the typical German. Even if you presume that refugee-related crime is underreported for political reasons, we could find no evidence in German media reports that the country warrants Trump's riddled-with-crime characterization.

Because his statement contains some element of truth but ignores critical facts that would give a different impression, we rate it Meist Falsch — Mostly False.

I mean, if the contention is that more people = more crime, well, duh. However, this idea that the refugees are necessarily more criminal — or exceptionally more criminal as some claim — is not backed by facts.

Furthermore

According to Die Welt (The World), a national German newspaper, most of the crimes committed by refugees are related to theft or trying to ride on public transport without tickets.

[dannno]

No, here's what the article is responding to and saying:

Trump


Crime data


Article


That's basically it. Trump greatly exaggerated to paint this bleak picture and spread fear, when in fact, Germany hasn't seen a rise in crime to "levels that no one thought the would ever see."

But the statistics I show say that the incarceration rate is 20 times higher for Muslims than non-Muslims. You are ignoring those statistics in favor of the article which inaccurately portrays the criminality of Muslims in Germany as "not more criminal than Germans". That has been shown simply to not be true by the data presented.

[Danke]

Norwegian Police Chief Says 'Xenophobia Is Highly Rational and Justified,' Cites Crime Stats

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=55348

A Norwegian police chief has spectacularly broken ranks to express his professional opinion that high and sustained levels of crime committed by migrants more than justifies concern about foreigners, and that increasing immigration "leads to more rapes".

[...]Police Inspector [Thomas Utne] Pettersen said: "People's xenophobia in relation to this group is highly rational and justified".

Validating his point, the senior officer said on his force in any given week in 2016 they might witness in the low-crime country "three Middle Eastern men in police custody" for drug offences, "foreigners" arrested for other drugs offences, stabbings, and robberies.

Pettersen said that in the year of 2015 he personally signed off 2,600 days of custody for detainees in his area -- 2,200 of which were for "foreign men". In one Norwegian prison -- Ullersmo -- he said half of all prisoners were foreigners, up from 30-per-cent in 2014.

[Antischism]

But the statistics I show say that the incarceration rate is 20 times higher for Muslims than non-Muslims. You are ignoring those statistics in favor of the article which inaccurately portrays the criminality of Muslims in Germany as "not more criminal than Germans". That has been shown simply to not be true by the data presented.

Aren't those prison statistics in reference to France? And why are they in prison? Is there something specific to France, its infrastructure, and the way it handles Muslims that may be contributing to more crime? I think those are all pertinent questions. You can't simply look at the situation in France and conclude that it's the same in Germany. Reading one of the sources you linked to for example, there's this bit:

But Muslim leaders, sociologists and human rights activists argue that more than in most other European countries, government social policies in France have served to isolate Muslims in impoverished suburbs that have high unemployment, inferior schools and substandard housing. This has helped create a generation of French-born children with little hope of social advancement and even less respect for French authority.

"The question of discrimination and justice is one of the key political questions of our society, and still, it is not given much importance," said Sebastian Roche, who has studied judicial discrimination as research director for the French National Center for Scientific Research. "We can't blame a state if its companies discriminate; however, we can blame the state if its justice system and its police discriminate."

I think there are complex issues, and of course, one of those is integration. Here's a good article on that, based on a really interesting book.

[Zippyjuan]

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/29899231/n.../#.V7acL5grKUk

Helping Illegal Immigrants A Crime in France

It wasn't yet 8 a.m. when police knocked on Monique Pouille's door, searched her home and took her away — all because she recharged cell phones for illegal migrants.

The 59-year-old volunteer with several groups in the Calais region of northern France was put behind bars and interrogated for three hours before being freed.

The French government forbids aiding illegal migrants and sets quotas for arrests of those who do as it tries to control growing clandestine immigration. This year's target: 5,000 arrests.

More at link.

Helping an illegal immigrant is a crime in France. But being one isn't.

http://www.france24.com/en/20120706-...s-france-court

France’s highest court has ruled that the country’s police can no longer arrest and detain illegal immigrants unless they are suspected of having committed a criminal offence.

Illegal immigrants in France can no longer be held in police custody simply for not having residency papers, the country’s highest court ruled on Thursday.

Until now, police could detain “sans-papiers” [“without papers”, the French term for illegal aliens] even if they had not committed a crime.

Under French law, police detention only applies to people suspected of having committed an offence punishable with a prison term.

Police detention is limited to 24 hours, although it can be extended to 48 if further inquiries have to be made. Being an illegal alien, under French law, is not a criminal offence.

Being an illegal alien is not a crime in France.

[TER]

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/29899231/n.../#.V7acL5grKUk



More at link.

This is the rotten fruit of rampant illegal immigration, as allowed by the European elite. Blowback which only serves to create more smoke and fear.

[silverhandorder]

It's OK a little bit more time and the right will win in the West and will turn anti immigration. Then all the pro immigration people can sit and think how they royally f@cked up.

1. Pissed every one off.
2. Made sure there will be ethnic war in their own countries.

[kahless]

@silverhandorder. I changed it a bit to relate to RPF:

It's OK a little bit more time and the right will win in the US and will turn anti immigration. Then all the pro immigration people can sit and think how they royally destroyed the Pauls grassroots by:

1. Pissing every one off.
2. Made sure there will be ethnic war in their own cities and states.