Yes you do. It is not your intent but the end result of your action.Originally Posted by TheCount
For a member of movement that prides itself on how direct and un-PC it is, you seem to be quite unwilling to answer me.
No, I said that I agree that libertarianism is about rejecting unprovoked aggression.
Racism - ill regard for individuals based upon perceived characteristics of a race as a whole - is the polar opposite of individualism.But what you're saying is that, in practice, racism is an obstacle to the progress of the libertarian movement?
@A Son of Liberty
Earlier, I defined libertarianism as the non-aggression principle and the subsidiary principles necessary to define aggression.
Thus defined, libertarianism has nothing to say about race.
...just like physics has nothing to say about literature, or chemistry has nothing to say about economics.
They are simply not concerned with the same subject matter.
If you disagree, and think libertarianism does have something to say about race, you must have a different definition of libertarianism.
Would you tell me what it is?
Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 09-17-2016 at 02:06 PM.
I'm not sure how I can say it which would satisfy you...
Libertarianism is the opposition to unprovoked aggression. What underpins that opposition is the recognition that all men are created equal, and are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, among which... you know the tune...
IF ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL, THEN RACE DOES NOT MATTER. What clearly does matter is the individual. A "racist libertarian" holds the contradictory notions that all men are created equal and that some men are less equal or valued for the generic reason of the color of their skin. Again, these are contradictory notions.
So, libertarianism qua libertarianism, to my knowledge, doesn't say much about race, but it's fairly obvious that the consequences of accepting a libertarian viewpoint necessitates rejecting racism.
Right
Equality under the law (i.e. no one should aggress against another person, regardless of race) is one thing.What underpins that opposition is the recognition that all men are created equal, and are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, among which... you know the tune...
IF ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL, THEN RACE DOES NOT MATTER. What clearly does matter is the individual. A "racist libertarian" holds the contradictory notions that all men are created equal and that some men are less equal or valued for the generic reason of the color of their skin. Again, these are contradictory notions.
Equality in the sense you mean (i.e. no one should value another person less because of race) is another thing.
The former is a libertarian principle, the latter is not.
Can a person be a libertarian - object to unprovoked aggression - while being a racist? Yeah. Should one? No, not really. Not if he accepts that we are to take individuals at their merits, and not according to some broad, general characteristic. The consequences are obvious.
QED
It may be that one should not be a racist.should one? No, not really. Not if he accepts that we are to take individuals at their merits, and not according to some broad, general characteristic. The consequences are obvious.
I'm just saying that such a judgment does not follow from libertarian principles.
It may follow from other principles.
Likewise, it may be that one should not lie, cheat at checkers, or watch too much porn.
...but any condemnation of those behaviors must come from someplace other than libertarianism.
Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 09-17-2016 at 04:40 PM.
Just to clarify, in case anyone following this is getting confused...
The alt-right is pure garbage and should be vigorously opposed by all libertarians.
What I'm saying is that the reason for libertarians to oppose them is their statism, not their racism.
If you personally dislike their racism, well fine, then you have two reasons for opposing them, but the libertarian reason is their statism.
I have, its not my fault you are not able to understand it.
Enjoy not winning elections.
How many elections has the alt-right won?
Stop believing stupid things
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German...ion,_July_1932
We unseated Eric Cantor, we won the GOP primary, we are destroying the Establishment.
Eric Cantor lost before anyone had heard of the alt-right.
Stop believing stupid things
How does the difference between intellect, or strength, or any other perceived attributes affect the value of an individual.
or are individuals equal (in inherent value) regardless of an profit margin?
or are some worth more due to some hereditary factor? and then ,,,Who?
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
The Alt Right has been around longer then you think.
Didn't they previously call themselves Christian Identity?
“I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul
To say all individuals are all equally valuable is a total lie.
Smarter, Stronger, more beautiful people are have higher value as they more/have greater means/potential then those who are not. To deny this is to live in willful ignorance.
A faction with promise, but no. We have always been in existence, Cuckly thought just by "reading us out", denying a platform, and acting as a gatekeeper he could get rid of us. He was wrong is oh so many ways...With the Internet we have been able to be everywhere, no gatekeepers, only the "moralists" who think they can tell others how or what to think.
They can no longer tell people "you can not think or believe this because if you do you are a "fill in the blank", the cost of self immolation is to high for most people to pay so they are not, if being called names is the cost of being free, safe, and prosperous, so be it.
That's cute.
I am the spoon.
"Smart", stronger, beautiful are generally speaking subjective attributes, and while you are perfectly free to value others based on those standards, most people (particularly in your case) will likely not agree with you.
So when we consider the value of other human beings, people who cherish the freedom of individuals look to the objective standard of inherent value; thus, the language of the Declaration of Independence: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
To deny THIS is to live in willful ignorance, and obviously explicitly inaugurates violence into society, and is deductively self-destructive.
How does ROL have 5 green bars? The mods probably wiped his neg reps like they did Farreri's.
I am the spoon.
I'm sure they existed before 2015.
Just like there were LGBT activists in the 1970s. Their numbers were so small they were politically irrelevant though.
Stop believing stupid things
People are unequal in intelligence, physical strength, beauty, etc, etc - this is obvious.
When the alt-right attacks their critics for denying this, they are largely attacking a straw man.
We aren't denying human inequality. We're denying that human inequality necessitates any special action on the part of the state.
Group A has a higher than average crime rate? So prosecute the individual criminals in the usual way, problem solved.
Group A has a lower than average IQ, and is less likely to succeed in a market economy? Well then they'll be poorer - that's their problem.
The alt-right and the SJWS are mistaken in thinking that inequality is a problem requiring a state solution.
But ... but ... muh jerbs! Muh culturez!
Chris
"Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon
"...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul
Alt-Right: "Deport my competitors in the labor market!"
SJWs: "Force employers to hire me!"
Alt-right: "Deport people from other cultures!"
SJWs: "Force people to accept my culture!"
Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 09-22-2016 at 12:52 PM.
Of course just deconstruct everything.
All men are created equal, before God, Subject to natural law, and before the laws of the nation, nothing more.
Do you agree or disagree that the state should do anything to "make people equal" in anyway? Because that is what the left has tried to do using the state and failed in everyway.
The state should not do anything to make people equal.
It's sole function should be to secure property rights.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Connect With Us