$ down against the euro, pound, yen, swiss franc, CAD, everything...
This evening's action may or may not be important in itself, but I think the trends are interesting.
Not very likely. Markets always give plenty of warning before something like that happens. Markets usually churn sideways and put in lower highs.Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0
Buying an AM panic and holding for the first up close vs the previous day prints money. For example, there are a lot of variations of this but the basic idea of buying greater than usual weakness within an uptrend and selling into short term strength tests very well.
Last edited by Krugminator2; 02-05-2018 at 08:00 AM.
If the Dow were to drop another 285 tomorrow it would be below 24955 . That ought to be enough to push gold past 1350 and silver past 17 1/3 .
I think we saw the power of the Plunge Protection Team this morning.Not very likely. Markets always give plenty of warning before something like that happens. Markets usually churn sideways and put in lower highs.
Buying an AM panic and holding for the first up close vs the previous day prints money. For example, there are a lot of variations of this but the basic idea of buying greater than usual weakness within an uptrend and selling into short term strength tests very well.
But wait, that's just internet conspiracy theory
(INTEL WAS $13!!!!)
As soon as they stepped back out, it started tanking again today.
A week or so ago there was a notice that a few trading gateways were down (ZH had a short piece about it...wasn't exchanges or brokers, just IP addresses). The markets all nosedived UNTIL the issue was resolved, then boom, a reversal and back into green. I'll be the tinfoil guy and pose that it was a test to see what would happen when the PPT desks (Fed/Treas/ESF) were shut off entirely from the markets. I think they're holding the markets up and manipulating it to desired results, good or bad, even down to specific closing numbers. Whenever they back away, real market forces kick in and the overvalued nature of their manipulation visits reality.
No coincidence that the WH put out a statement this morning, at the same time as the PPT was working, about confidence in the economy and assuaging stock fears. It is the President's Working Group, after all.
Last edited by devil21; 02-12-2018 at 03:40 AM.
"Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul
"We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book
The PPT can influence the markets a little but I seriously doubt they can do it for long. They don't have enough capital. If it were that easy every market would do it.I think we saw the power of the Plunge Protection Team this morning.
But wait, that's just internet conspiracy theory
Uh what? The Exchange Stabilization Fund, the Fed and the US Treasury, don't have enough capital to stabilize (manipulate) the exchanges? I can't imagine what your line of reasoning is here.
Also, I edited my post you replied to. Check out extra info.
Last edited by devil21; 02-06-2018 at 03:35 AM.
"Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul
"We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book
Just the NYSE alone has a market cap of 21 trillion and trades about 200 billion a day. They'd probably have to have hundreds of billions of dollars to throw away to keep the markets from a big sell off. Plus it would be a huge risk. It would take a lot of people to pull it off and if the public found out either the markets or the dollar would crash to zero.
I'm not saying the PPT isn't trying to stabilize the markets, I'm just saying they can only have so much influence. If it were really possible to keep the markets constantly going up without an equal loss in the value of the currency every country would be rich and no one would have to work.
DJIA -750 (off a low of -800 minutes ago)
What's especially interesting is that gold and silver are barely down and bonds are barely up.
-1100
Correction, -1300 while typing (!)
Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 02-05-2018 at 02:10 PM.
Make that -1400
-1500
Back to "only" -1000
The teleprompter-readers' effort to talk investors off the cliff must have worked.
I'm looking for the "quad". Dow down, dollar index down, gold up and bond rates up.
I'm surprised the headlines are not blaming this on Trump. It's just a matter time if it keeps dropping. Of course Trump walked right into the trap by taking credit for the bubble on the way up. What a maroon! It's not actually his fault but he stupidly took ownership of it.
Last edited by Madison320; 02-05-2018 at 02:40 PM.
Yep, aka the four horsemen of the apocalypse for this economy.
I think that's coming sooner than later.
Gold and silver being up 0.5% and 1% today, with this kind of selloff, is already pretty remarkable.
And bonds were down in the initial sell-off, only got a bid when the dow really plunged.
Well, it's been building for a long time, but it is his fault in that he's just continuing the policies that created this situation, esp. re spending.
Dropping again into the close...
Talking heads talking about how rising rates (which caused this sell-off) are great, a sign of economic health, etc.
...course they fail to appreciate that this entire post-2008 economy is build on cheap money and will absolutely crater without it.
Yeah, heard intraday down as much as -1500 : close down -1177 (?)
Strong selling into the close, -1175 (-4.6%) final, the largest point drop in history by far.
nearly -1600
EDIT: -1597 to be precise (beat the former record intraday drop by nearly 600 points)
Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 02-05-2018 at 03:09 PM.
I expect gold and silver will get a little boost on the Asian market .
I was too optimistic too quickly. A gap down tomorrow would be a gift from the gods for someone sitting on cash. The VIX has only been this high once in the last 5 years. And this is sharpest spike.
Buying this kind of fear tends to be a good bet.
I agree.
In the real world rising rates are due to an increased risk of default.
I'd be surprised if big money investors were thinking about an actual default on treasuries at this point (though that day may come).
More about supply, falling dollar, inflation, IMO.
Defaulting thru inflation is just the dishonest way of defaulting. Really with the bigger currencies it's the only way they're ever going to default.
Dude, the Fed can literally make "money" of any nominal amount appear out of thin air. Any amount. I don't care what the cap of various markets is. All that money originated from the Fed in the first place. They can double it overnight if they wish. Having said that, you don't need to move the entire market cap to manipulate the markets on a day-to-day basis.
"Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul
"We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book
I've been checking in on the conservative talk shows to see how they react. They've all been drinking the Trump kool-aid and bragging about how great the economy is under Trump. I heard Limbaugh say last week "we're going to see unprecedented, explosive growth in the economy."
So far not one guy has mentioned the crash.
Hot damn that was fun to watch! Anybody see a PPT around here at 3pm or so? It doesn't get anymore obvious than that. We would have triggered circuit breakers if not for the PPT TWICE today.
If this keeps up and the FRN based stock markets completely deflate, my handful of TVIX will be worth millions of worthless FRNs. Just spitballin' here but wouldn't it be amazing if only VOL based issues ended up with all the "money"?
Various brokers shut down too. When everyone is running for the exits, the little guy will be locked out. Today was the warning. Same as bitcoin!
Why do you think they've been pumping all this Trump soap opera drama??? So they don't have to talk about the financial markets and "money".
Last edited by devil21; 02-06-2018 at 04:03 AM.
"Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul
"We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book
If they secretly used printed money to prop up the stock market, we'd eventually get high inflation. If the public found out about it we'd get hyper inflation.
I wondered the same thing, but when I look at Janet Yellen or Ben Bernanke I just don't see them being outright criminals, they look more like misled academics who believe in a failed theory.
If you're right why would they ever let the markets crash?
They won't be able to ignore it for much longer. I can't wait to hear the spin!
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Connect With Us