Garden of Eden Bible Study

[pcosmar]

It also states you know them by their fruit...is that literal fruit or figuratively?




Okay, The tree of Life. Is that a literal tree or is it symbolic of Christ?

Literal.

Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

Why do you try to jam dissimilar scripture together..??

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
a tree in the Garden at creation.

and fruits of the spirit,, which it a different topic in another age,

What are you talking about.?
and what ever does it have to do with"ethnicity"... and seriously,, why should any christian ever give any credence to "ethnicity"? Ever?

It is wholly irrelevant to anything.

[lilymc]

I have already posted this but I will do it again:


http://worldeventsandthebible.com/20...of-satans.html




It also brings it up in again in 2 Corinthians 11:3


http://worldeventsandthebible.com/20...of-satans.html

So even though the writer of Genesis said that Eve conceived immediately after saying she had sex with her husband Adam, you're claiming that those two points can be separated and we can believe that the serpent was the true biological father, even though that's not what it says? I'm sorry, but that's how false doctrines get started… By hinging an entire doctrine on something that just isn't there, it has to be added to the text.

Also, you didn't answer my question… Please answer this because I'm genuinely curious to know your answer to this. Do you believe that Adam and Eve had a threesome with a serpent? Yes or no please.

[pcosmar]

Adam and Eve had a threesome with a serpent? Yes or no please.

Ok, that's a picture I really didn't need.

but it is just that bizarre.

The mental gymnastics are nothing compared with the Theological chaos.

I would really like to dispose of this error,,

[TER]

Yes.
that is what the scripture says.

Not to me.

I know I said I would bow out of this thread, but I feel I must speak now to you as a concerned friend, straight talk and to the point, hoping to shake you out of the trance your are in.

Donnay, you are being misled by men with innovative interpretations and heretical beliefs, apart and against the teachings of the Apostles Whom Christ sent into the world.

You are making the misleading complete by relying on your own mind as the definer of what is true or not. You have followed the path of Sola and those like him my putting your faith in yourself and your mind to know what is truth or not, calling it “the Scriptures” when in actuality it is your interpretation of Scriptures which you have elevated as the pillar and foundation of truth. You have in fact made yourself to be the word of God, the mind of God, and the voice of God.

This is pride and the biggest destructive passion which exists, which has led many to isolation, bitterness, and despair.

Do not be so blind woman that you pit yourself against the God-bearing Saints of Jesus Christ, and naively follow the lies and heresies of those decievers who are whispering in your ear and counting the money you send to them. These hucksters who create connections which do not exist and make claims which are distortions and dangerous. They preach a false gospel, apart from the teachings of the Apostles and those who were entrusted to carry down those teachings.

Listen to yourself. You can not point to any support for your claims on many of this things, but Brendan Ward and his contemporaries.

Have you turned Gnostic? Are you somehow more enlightened than the Apostles and Saints who walked on water, raised the dead, and held fast and true to the truths handed down to them? Would you humble yourself for a moment and perhaps entertain the thought that just because you think something sounds right doesn’t mean $#@! and has no bearing on truth or reality?

The Serpent Seed heresy is not heresy because I think so, but because others greater than me, all the way to the beginning, witness to it being heresy. It was called out for the Gnostic garbage it was along with all the other antichristian rubbish when it first started to be spread in the third and fourth century, only to be brought back by the modern Gnostics of today, like Brendan Ward.

Forgive me for being blunt Donnay, but you are trending down a very dangerous path when you put yourself to be the deliberator of truth. Do not follow such a path. Seek the truths which are eternal, and open, and held fast through space and time. This is how one can find assurance of truth, namely that it is eternal, known far and wide and in consensus and agreement. The teachings you have ascribed which claim to be esoteric and hidden are rather the regurgitated vomit of Gnostic heresies which were antichristian then as they are now.

Humble yourself and seek the truth by studying what has been carried down by Christian Saints through the centuries to be the truth, openely and shouted from rooftops, and confirmed by the masses who said the Amen. Don’t be misled by shiny and intriguing fairytales by hucksters and ill-informed storytellers who use the Scriptures to weave their web.

And let this be a lesson again to those who earnestly desire to seek the truth, that it is only through the Church, which Christ established to be the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (and definitely NOT our own minds or what we may personally think or believe), for to do otherwise is to put ourselves above the communion of the Saints which is the Body of Christ, so in essence, putting ourselves above the Christ Himself. The first rule of Christian discipleship is humility and obedience, for through these two Christ taught us to find the Kingdom of Heaven.

[donnay]

Literal.

Just as Satan has many names in the Books of the Bible, so does Christ. Tree’s are not good or bad so we should understand we are not talking about literal tree’s, instead these “tree’s” are symbolic. They represent Satan who is the “tree of knowledge of good and evil” and Jesus Christ who is the “Tree of Life“.

Genesis 2:9 - And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Christ is the Tree of Life. Through him, all will have eternal life.

John 14:6 (KJV)

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

[pcosmar]

Christ is the Tree of Life. Through him, all will have eternal life.

John 14:6 (KJV)


6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Nope but he has it.

Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

It's just not within reach yet. soon.

The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life, And he who is wise wins souls.

[donnay]

I know I said I would bow out of this thread, but I feel I must speak now to you as a concerned friend, straight talk and to the point, hoping to shake you out of the trance your are in.

Donnay, you are being misled by men with innovative interpretations and heretical beliefs, apart and against the teachings of the Apostles Whom Christ sent into the world.

You are making the misleading complete by relying on your own mind as the definer of what is true or not. You have followed the path of Sola and those like him my putting your faith in yourself and your mind to know what is truth or not, calling it “the Scriptures” when in actuality it is your interpretation of Scriptures which you have elevated as the pillar and foundation of truth. You have in fact made yourself to be the word of God, the mind of God, and the voice of God.

This is pride and the biggest destructive passion which exists, which has led many to isolation, bitterness, and despair.

Do not be so blind woman that you pit yourself against the God-bearing Saints of Jesus Christ, and naively follow the lies and heresies of those decievers who are whispering in your ear and counting the money you send to them. These hucksters who create connections which do not exist and make claims which are distortions and dangerous. They preach a false gospel, apart from the teachings of the Apostles and those who were entrusted to carry down those teachings.

Listen to yourself. You can not point to any support for your claims on many of this things, but Brendan Ward and his contemporaries.

Have you turned Gnostic? Are you somehow more enlightened than the Apostles and Saints who walked on water, raised the dead, and held fast and true to the truths handed down to them? Would you humble yourself for a moment and perhaps entertain the thought that just because you think something sounds right doesn’t mean $#@! and has no bearing on truth or reality?

The Serpent Seed heresy is not heresy because I think so, but because others greater than me, all the way to the beginning, witness to it being heresy. It was called out for the Gnostic garbage it was along with all the other antichristian rubbish when it first started to be spread in the third and fourth century, only to be better brought back by the modern Gnostics of today, like Brendan Ward.

Forgive me for being blunt Donnay, but you are trending down a very dangerous path when you put yourself to be the deliberator of truth. Do not follow such a path. Seek the truths which are eternal, and open, and held fast through space and time. This is how one can find assurance in truth, namely that it is eternal, known far and wide and in consensus and agreement. The teachings you have ascribed which claim to be esoteric and hidden and rather the regurgitated vomit of Gnostic heresies which were antichristian then as they are now.

Humble yourself and seek the truth by studying what has been carried down by Christian Saints through the centuries to be the truth, openely and shouted from rooftops, and confirmed by the masses who said the Amen. Don’t be misled by shiny and intriguing fairytales by hucksters and ill-informed storytellers who use the Scriptures to weave their web.

And let this be a lesson again to those who earnestly desire to seek the truth, that it is only through the Church, which Christ established to be the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (and definite to what we may personally think or believe), for to do otherwise is to put ourselves above the communion of the Saints which is the Body of Christ, so in essence, putting ourselves above the Christ Himself. The first rule of Christian discipleship is humility and obedience, for through these two Christ taught us to find the Kingdom of Heaven.

I appreciate your concern, but you need not worry. I have complete an utter faith and love in YHVH and Yeshua.

[TER]

I appreciate your concern, but you need not worry. I have complete an utter faith and love in YHVH and Yeshua.

I will pray for you, my friend.

[donnay]

I will pray for you, my friend.

As I you.

[lilymc]

Ok, that's a picture I really didn't need.

but it is just that bizarre.

The mental gymnastics are nothing compared with the Theological chaos.

I would really like to dispose of this error,,

Heh... sorry to put that picture in your mind. The thing is, if we're to believe that the eating of the fruit actually means having sex with the Serpent… It clearly says that Eve ate it and then handed some to Adam who also ate. So Adam have sex with the serpent too? It does get very convoluted and absurd, but I wanted to know if those who believe the serpent seed theory believe that.

[TER]

As I you.

Thank you. I know I need all the help I can get.

[TER]

Heh... sorry to put that picture in your mind. The thing is, if we're to believe that the eating of the fruit actually means having sex with the Serpent… It clearly says that Eve ate it and then handed some to Adam who also ate. So Adam have sex with the serpent too? It does get very convoluted and absurd, but I wanted to know if those who believe the serpent seed theory believe that.

The fruit, according to the Saints, was actually a fig, which was considered by the ancient Israelites to be the most royal and beneficial fruits.

It wasn’t until the Renaissance when it was painted to be an apple.

[pcosmar]

The fruit, according to the Saints, was actually a fig, which was considered by the ancient Israelites to be the most royal and beneficial fruits.

Fig or apple,, is irrelevant..
Prior to eating,, they had no knowledge of Evil. No experience of any kind.
They only knew of the good of God..

This was the choice,, and the consequence of having choice.
They knew good and evil..

The content of the fruit is more important than it's flavor.

[lilymc]

The fruit, according to the Saints, was actually a fig, which was considered by the ancient Israelites to be the most royal and beneficial fruits.

Hmm. It's certainly possible, but I'd be interested in knowing how they came up with that. I'm pretty sure that the Bible doesn't say what type of fruit it was. Not that it really matters… I hope we can all agree that the important point is about obedience, simply trusting and obeying God. Eve disobeyed, as did Adam.

[TER]

Fig or apple,, is irrelevant..
Prior to eating,, they had no knowledge of Evil. No experience of any kind.
They only knew of the good of God..

This was the choice,, and the consequence of having choice.
They knew good and evil..

The content of the fruit is more important than it's flavor.

Of course, I am simply trying to demonstrate another example of the way doctrines and Apostolic beliefs get distorted in time by men and women who paint pictures in their own heads instead of heeding the teachings held down by our fathers in the faith.

And by the way, as a student of the Bible, I’m sure you might understand the significance of why it was indeed a fig tree. There are no coincidences.

[TER]

Hmm. It's certainly possible, but I'd be interested in knowing how they came up with that. I'm pretty sure that the Bible doesn't say what type of fruit it was. Not that it really matters… I hope we can all agree that the important point is about obedience, simply trusting and obeying God. Eve disobeyed, as did Adam.

Again, without the mind and testimony of the Church, then we can only rely on the Scriptures. But these Scriptures, though sufficient in proclaiming the Gospel, is not the exhaustive source of teachings and revelations of God. The wonders and beauty and truths of God and what He has done cannot be contained in any book.

[pcosmar]

And by the way, as a student of the Bible, I’m sure you might understand the significance of why it was indeed a fig tree. There are no coincidences.

A common Fruit bearing tree in the area,, Blessing and peace..

And Christ cursed one,, for not having fruit.

But I have never felt any more evil eating one.

But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.

[lilymc]

Again, without the mind and testimony of the Church, then we can only rely on the Scriptures. But these Scriptures, though sufficient in proclaiming the Gospel, is not the exhaustive source of teachings and revelations of God. The wonders and beauty and truths of God and what He has done cannot be contained in any book.

I think there are a number of ways to know about God, he reveals Himself in a number of different ways. But do you believe that those other ways should always be in harmony with scripture?

[TER]

A common Fruit bearing tree in the area,, Blessing and peace..

And Christ cursed one,, for not having fruit.

But I have never felt any more evil eating one.

Of course, we haven’t made it to the Garden yet! But when we do, I hope we can share of that fruit together, from that same tree, and come together to the knowledge which God wills all to receive, in good time and proper contrition of heart.

[TER]

I think there are a number of ways to know about God, he reveals Himself in a number of different ways. But do you believe that those other ways should always be in harmony with scripture?

Yes.

[pcosmar]

I think there are a number of ways to know about God, he reveals Himself in a number of different ways. But do you believe that those other ways should always be in harmony with scripture?

They should be in harmony.. That is why we are to "test the spirits"..

The book will balance itself,, and does,, in my experience.

This particular teaching is not based in truth,, it is based on a lie and tries to use scripture to justify itself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_seed

. This belief is also held by some adherents of the white supremacist theology known as Christian Identity, who claim that the Jews are descended from the serpent. It is considered heresy by the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches and by most Protestants.

and there are several variations of the same bad idea.
The same teaching I ran into in the 80s. And it is heresy to most believers. if they bother to look into it.
It is so twisted in the contortions of scripture that it is easily deconstructed.

but if accepted it distorts the whole of scripture,, because everything has to be remade to fit.

I will hope that folks will go to God humbly with this, . and leave it there..

this seem a snake that keeps raising it's ugly head.

[donnay]

Have you ever wondered what Jesus Christ meant by "I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan." Rev 2:9 also in Rev 3:9 Jesus is a REAL Hebrew of the tribe of Judah AND of the Levitical Priesthood, so who could He be referring to? Think deeply about it, then research it....I did. Review my study on, "Marking the sons of Cain" and or research the word Kenite (offspring of Cain-Kajin--Gen 3:14-15 & Gen 4; John 8:44 to begin your search.)

https://lisaintx.wordpress.com/categ...-sons-of-cain/

[pcosmar]

https://lisaintx.wordpress.com/categ...-sons-of-cain/

The sons of Cain are all dead.. They were utterly wiped out,, cleansed from the earth.

Noah was not a son of Cain. Noah was of Seth.

Cain was not on the ark.. in any fashion..

The Kenites are offspring of Shem,, Noah's Son.

Cain is irrelevant, Cain and the offspring of Cain all Drowned,, in the Flood.

The teaching is error. donnay.. you are not going to prove it true because it simply is not.

There are No descendants of Cain. anyone who says different is lying to you.

[donnay]

The sons of Cain are all dead.. They were utterly wiped out,, cleansed from the earth.

Noah was not a son of Cain. Noah was of Seth.

Cain was not on the ark.. in any fashion..

The Kenites are offspring of Shem,, Noah's Son.

Cain is irrelevant, Cain and the offspring of Cain all Drowned,, in the Flood.

The teaching is error. donnay.. you are not going to prove it true because it simply is not.

There are No descendants of Cain. anyone who says different is lying to you.

I never said Noah was the son of Cain. He was the son He was the offspring of Seth, that is why he was the one chosen to build the ark so that he can carry on God's plan for Christ to be born through the Adamic bloodline.

Well you may think I am in error and that is fine. I am not here to judge anyone but to pass on what I learned through my own studying. God gives us the gift of discernment and we must use it wisely.

[pcosmar]

I never said Noah was the son of Cain. He was the son of Seth, that is why he was the one chosen to build the ark so that he can carry on God's plan for Christ to be born through the Adamic bloodline.

Ok,, and the Kenites are his offspring,, through His son Shem.

So the Kenites can not be offspring of Cain.

[donnay]

[lilymc]

They should be in harmony.. That is why we are to "test the spirits"..

I agree, the reason I asked was to hear what TER believes (the EO perspective.)

The book will balance itself,, and does,, in my experience.

This particular teaching is not based in truth,, it is based on a lie and tries to use scripture to justify itself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_seed


and there are several variations of the same bad idea.
The same teaching I ran into in the 80s. And it is heresy to most believers. if they bother to look into it.
It is so twisted in the contortions of scripture that it is easily deconstructed.

but if accepted it distorts the whole of scripture,, because everything has to be remade to fit.

I will hope that folks will go to God humbly with this, . and leave it there..

this seem a snake that keeps raising it's ugly head.

Again, agreed. In addition to some of the bad fruit that was mentioned earlier, there must be some other reason why, as you said, this snake keeps rearing its ugly head. I'm going to look into that more because I'm sure there is a strategic reason, spiritually speaking. If you know what I mean.

Yes.

It's always good to have common ground. I didn't mention this the other day but it's good to see you back here, TER.

[pcosmar]

[video=youtube;-/]

You are falling for a heresy that distorts much..

Moses was a Kenite .. or descended from.

Several were key figures in history, The Kenites are descended from Shem.
This is the purpose of the Genealogies.. dry reading that it is.

[donnay]

You are falling for a heresy that distorts much..

Moses was a Kenite .. or descended from.

Several were key figures in history, The Kenites are descended from Shem.
This is the purpose of the Genealogies.. dry reading that it is.

Moses was not a Kenite.

[pcosmar]

Moses was not a Kenite.

Well actually his Father in Law was, (upon closer look)Judges 1:16

And the children of the Kenite, Moses' father in law, went up out of the city of palm trees with the children of Judah into the wilderness of Judah, which lieth in the south of Arad; and they went and dwelt among the people.

Numbers 10:29

Now Moses said to Hobab son of Reuel the Midianite, Moses' father-in-law, "We are setting out for the place about which the LORD said, 'I will give it to you.' Come with us and we will treat you well, for the LORD has promised good things to Israel."

Then Jethro, Moses' father-in-law, took a burnt offering and sacrifices for God, and Aaron came with all the elders of Israel to eat a meal with Moses' father-in-law before God.

And as for who the Midianites are,,Genesis 25:1-2

Abraham had taken another wife, whose name was Keturah. She bore him Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak and Shuah.

Midianites descend from Abraham.