Trumpt Tweet: I will give SOTU after shutdown ends.

[acptulsa]

I'll have to check my index card of allowed opinions. I'm pretty sure your post is in violation.

Oh, rest assured!

[pcosmar]

Why does all of this, remind me of a reality TV show?

Come back tomorrow for another episode of U.S. politics.

Theatrics.

Circus with a Clown as Ringmaster.

[PAF]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CaptUSA again."

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to acptulsa again."

[kahless]

You were under the impression that that wasn't where we were before?

I was under the impression he would advance policy in the process which is a good thing instead of always giving concessions and calling it a win.

Shouldn't it matter if the thing being conceded actually affects anything?

You just see it as your team against the other team and you want your team to win, no matter how stupid the game being played is.

No, that is the stupidity I was specifically calling Trump out on. It is one thing to lose at advancing his own policies and calling it a win. In this so called winning he is advancing policies of the left by giving concessions.

[Superfluous Man]

No, that is the stupidity I was specifically calling Trump out on. It is one thing not to lose at not advancing his own policies. In this so called winning he is advancing policies of the left by giving concessions.

How does doing the SOTU on any one date as opposed to any other advance any policy?

[PAF]

This is interesting... I don't know how/where this will play out, but the CICS released this memo:


Until then, negotiations continue, not between the three NAFTA countries, but among Washington’s policymakers. Some House Democrats have already signaled that they want to see firm commitments in the administration’s enforcement plan backing up the labor and environment provisions. This could be addressed in the administration’s enforcement plan, or in a side agreement.

If Congress does not get the changes it wants incorporated into the package the White House submits, U.S. Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi can take the administration’s draft implementing legislation and make changes prior to introducing the bill in the House (where the process of legislative approval must begin because the trade agreement makes changes to tariffs, and is considered a “money bill”). In her previous term as House Speaker, Pelosi delayed consideration of the U.S.-Colombia Free Trade Agreement for nearly four years by refusing to allow implementing legislation to be introduced in the House until her terms were met.

The Trump administration will call on Congress to approve the USMCA quickly in the State of the Union address on January 29. The administration will likely argue that the U.S. position in ongoing trade talks with China and Europe would be undermined if USMCA is not approved as proof that the United States can complete trade deals.


Full memo here:

https://www.csis.org/analysis/unpack...-approval-2019

[kahless]

How does doing the SOTU on any one date as opposed to any other advance any policy?

Same answer as in the other thread.

Because it symbolizes the way Trump has historically handled his opposition. Just another concession to them. They are leading while he follows.

[Superfluous Man]

Trump has a lot of leverage left to get the Dems to support his border wall. There are so many things he wants that they are on the record supporting that he hasn't even offered to include yet: single-payer healthcare, stricter gun control, higher tariffs, stronger protections for the LGBTQIA community, etc. Once he throws enough of those goodies in, he'll easily be able to get more than enough Dems to support his border wall, when, after all, they almost all already support a border wall anyway. Immigration restrictionism is a natural and integral part of their agenda.

[Superfluous Man]

Same answer as in the other thread.

No mention of any policies there.

[Swordsmyth]

Trump has a lot of leverage left to get the Dems to support his border wall. There are so many things he wants that they are on the record supporting that he hasn't even offered to include yet: single-payer healthcare, stricter gun control, higher tariffs, stronger protections for the LGBTQIA community, etc. Once he throws enough of those goodies in, he'll easily be able to get more than enough Dems to support his border wall, when, after all, they almost all already support a border wall anyway. Immigration restrictionism is a natural and integral part of their agenda.

They will never agree to a wall and limited immigration is anathema to their agenda.

[kahless]

Trump has a lot of leverage left to get the Dems to support his border wall. There are so many things he wants that they are on the record supporting that he hasn't even offered to include yet: single-payer healthcare, stricter gun control, higher tariffs, stronger protections for the LGBTQIA community, etc. Once he throws enough of those goodies in, he'll easily be able to get more than enough Dems to support his border wall, when, after all, they almost all already support a border wall anyway. Immigration restrictionism is a natural and integral part of their agenda.

That is what worries me he will do and lets not forget he already offered amnesty, path way to citizenship, gave them the bump stock ban and proposed more high tech visas (w/chain migration). Looks like we partially got a 3rd Obama presidency with great showmanship and deception in pretending to be something else.

I care more about him not increasing legal immigration, giving amnesty and citizenship than I do the wall. As long as the border is secured in some fashion and in areas the wall is necessary, then yes a wall.

[acptulsa]

Some people never tire of hearing, 'We told you so.'

[Superfluous Man]

They will never agree to a wall and limited immigration is anathema to their agenda.

No it isn't. Nor has it ever been in any of the countries where their agenda has been implemented.
https://berniesanders.com/open-borde...ot-a-solution/

Most of them have already agreed to and voted for the enforcement of laws limiting immigration in the past, probably even including border walls I would bet.

[nikcers]

No. I want an end to welfare for them, and an end of goofy regulations so we can start so many businesses that we're begging for immigrant labor. I want markets so free we have a new Roaring Twenties. Then nobody will be interested in rocking the genuinely capitalist boat.

Hey, if you wanted someone to stick to your two crappy options, you shouldn't have asked a libertarian.

How do you get that if the Democrats win? Did we get that with Obama? You can hate on Trump's political jujitsu but at least where I live people are doing better with Trump as president. The policy does matter and from a libertarians perspective I $#@!ing love government shut downs.

[kahless]

Some people never tire of hearing, 'We told you so.'

Choices:

A. No open borders and no gun control from the mouth of a suspected liar.

B. Open borders, will advance the open border agenda and gun control.

C. Open borders, will advance the open border agenda and gun control.

Enough said.

[PAF]

How do you get that if the Democrats win? Did we get that with Obama? You can hate on Trump's political jujitsu but at least where I live people are doing better with Trump as president. The policy does matter and from a libertarians perspective I $#@!ing love government shut downs.

Number 1 rule: ALWAYS throw bones to gain support. 2. Always make out like it's the oppositions fault.

Any improvement under this current system of government is temporary and not a long term solution for the people.

Is this shutdown a ruse? I don't know, but tptb are still working diligently regardless of this "shutdown":

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...proval-in-2019

[Swordsmyth]

No it isn't. Nor has it ever been in any of the countries where their agenda has been implemented.
https://berniesanders.com/open-borde...ot-a-solution/

Only in the medium term, in the short term they want open borders to import communist voters and in the long term they are globalists that want "No borders, No wall, No USA at all".

In the medium term they want closed borders because they want to buy off their voters until the frog is boiled.

[acptulsa]

Choices:

A. No open borders and no gun control from the mouth of a suspected liar.

B. Open borders, will advance the open border agenda and gun control.

C. Open borders, will advance the open border agenda and gun control.

Enough said.

Step one: Scream that we have no time to spend pursuing the good, because if we do the lesser evil might not win.

Step two: Cry that the lesser evil is no less evil than the greater evil.

Step three: Insist we did the right thing not pursuing the good because then the lesser evil might have lost.

Step four: Say, 'Enough said.'

[Superfluous Man]

Step one: Scream that we have no time to spend pursuing the good, because if we do the lesser evil might not win.

Step two: Cry that the lesser evil is no less evil than the greater evil.

Step three: Insist we did the right thing not pursuing the good because then the lesser evil might have lost.

Step four: Say, 'Enough said.'

Step 1: Identify a problem.

Step 2: Implement government-based solution to problem that causes more problems.

Step 3: Repeat.

This is what the immigration restrictionists' argument about welfare boils down to.

[acptulsa]

Step 1: Identify a problem.

Step 2: Implement government-based solution to problem that causes more problems.

Step 3: Repeat.

This is what the immigration restrictionists' argument about welfare boils down to.

That silly boondoggwall, too.

[Swordsmyth]

Step 1: Identify a problem.

Step 2: Implement government-based solution to problem that causes more problems.

Step 3: Repeat.

This is what the immigration restrictionists' argument about welfare boils down to.

1 complain about government
2 allow people who believe in government as a solution to everything to come and impose more government on you

That is what totally free immigration libertarians believe in.

[fcreature]

So tired of hearing about Trump's "leverage".

For all this supposed "leverage" of his, he sure hasn't been able to use any of it to get anything he wants. He concedes on almost all issues. He was hours away from conceding on the wall issue before he caught wind that it would actually be a huge blow to his support.

Really, the issue of SOTU is a non-issue, however giving in on it makes him look, once again, weak. Personally, I liked Rand's idea of having the Senate host it instead. That would show Trump as not caving to the lunatic left (who will never, ever, ever change their minds about anything) and also deal a major blow to Nancy - hell, he could make it the new tradition every year to host it in the Senate, so long as Nancy is speaker.

BTW, when are those declassifications coming? The only issue that should matter at this point is revealing the corruption in the DOJ/FBI, cleaning house, and prosecuting those who have staged this coup. If that doesn't happen, this country is toast.

[Superfluous Man]

So tired of hearing about Trump's "leverage".

For all this supposed "leverage" of his, he sure hasn't been able to use any of it to get anything he wants.

Give him time. It hasn't even been one full month since his party took back the House. And they still don't control the Senate.

[Cleaner44]

Trump pussied out. I think he should have moved to another venue. The president doesn't need the permission of a Representative to address the nation. Hold the SOTU at a neutral site and control the event as the Chief Executive. I suspect he wants to look like a team player. Whatever.

Keep the Shutdown™ going!

[UWDude]

Trump pussied out. I think he should have moved to another venue. The president doesn't need the permission of a Representative to address the nation. Hold the SOTU at a neutral site and control the event as the Chief Executive. I suspect he wants to look like a team player. Whatever.

Keep the Shutdown™ going!

Alright, time to tell you all a big secret:

The longer the shutdown goes, the more trump wins.
The more his SOTU is delayed, the more he wins, because airtime gets more and more precious, as elections gets closer and closer.
SO if shutdown lasts for another two months, he will give his SOTU 2 months closer to elections.

This is just another win for him.
I have no doubt he is the one who gave her the idea to move his speech forward.
That is one of the reasons he cancelled her flight. Make her angrier. Make her "get him back".

This is hilarious. He is playing her like a fiddle.

Is is clear yet? Do you get it yet?

It's like he piled on some fudge on top of his shutdown sundae.