View Poll Results: Gov shut over $5B Wall funding; which side will fold?

Voters
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  • Pelosi will fold

    2 13.33%
  • MAGA will fold

    6 40.00%
  • No one will fold, no end in sight to gov shut

    5 33.33%
  • Other/not sure

    2 13.33%
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Thread: Gov shut over $5B Wall funding; which side will fold?

  1. #1

    Gov shut over $5B Wall funding; which side will fold?

    In the ongoing Gov shut battle over MAGA's $5B Wall funding demand, which side will fold in the end in your view?



    Related



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYI2QN-qeuo


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C300l5hndaU



    Coulter commended Trump this month for his willingness to shut down the government over his wall demand.
    "Though don’t worry, he’ll fold in the end," Coulter predicted while speaking on the "Mark Simone Show" on 710 WOR in New York.
    GUTLESS PRESIDENT IN WALL-LESS COUNTRY
    In other words, Trump is doing exactly what I feared he would do in the worst conceivable way. He's not building the wall, while making ridiculous promises right up until the second before he folds.



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  3. #2
    Supporting Member
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    Cleaner44's Avatar


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    Hopefully neither. I am looking forward to a multi-year shutdown.
    Citizen of Arizona
    @cleaner4d4

    I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.

  4. #3
    Neither side can afford to fold.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  5. #4

  6. #5

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Trump is going to probably up it to 10B now, that's how negotiations work.
    He is winning, he should demand his entire wishlist.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Neither side can afford to fold.
    You're predicting this I gather:
    "No one will fold, no end in sight to gov shut"

    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Trump is going to probably up it to 10B now, that's how negotiations work.
    I have not read Art of the Deal, but you maybe right.

    But if he opened gov without at least $5B funding agreement from Pelosi/Dems, would that constitute "folding"?
    Talking heads would be very busy on radio/TV if that happened.
    My guess is that MAGA will open gov without receiving $5B for Wall from Dems.

  9. #8
    They're all holding out for Comprehensive Immigration Reform DACA Amnesty, with a couple of rolls of barbed wire thrown in to patch up the border cattle fence.

    The shutdown is about which wing of the D&R party gets the credit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again



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  11. #9
    @realDonaldTrump Teach GOP what small gov really is. Continue shutdown, DO NOT CAVE! AMERICA FIRST!

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by RonZeplin View Post
    They're all holding out for Comprehensive Immigration Reform DACA Amnesty, with a couple of rolls of barbed wire thrown in to patch up the border cattle fence.

    The shutdown is about which wing of the D&R party gets the credit.
    Sure, that's why it hasn't happened yet.

    That's a nice edited quote you have in your signature, why didn't you include a link so people can read the whole thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I vehemently oppose illegal immigration and abortion no matter who is involved, my record on both is clear.
    I also manage to praise good actions on either no matter who is involved.

    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong, you never attack anyone else in politics about either one and you never argue with the posters here who defend either one.

    Prove me wrong, show just one post where you admit one good thing Trump has done about either or one post in the last year where you attacked anyone else or opposed anyone on this forum.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #11

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    space force?
    Only if he includes enough cuts to more than pay for it.

    There are plenty of other things that I support that he should demand like massive reductions to legal immigration, more tax cuts, regulatory cuts etc.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Sure, that's why it hasn't happened yet.

    That's a nice edited quote you have in your signature, why didn't you include a link so people can read the whole thing?
    I'm not pushing your Trumpkin agenda for you. I disagree with your shuck 'n jive analysis, most of what you said about me is not true. I discuss a wide range of issues, on many different topics.

    If Trump ever does anything good i MAY mention it, or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again

  16. #14
    I am afraid Trump is going to virtue signal big time tomorrow when calling for an emergency to build the wall. Something like him giving away DACA, pathway to citizenship and more high tech H-1B visas. The shills on the right will call it a win and praise how he outmaneuvered the left despite the reality of betraying his base with policies that will increase immigration.

    The average Joe on the right won't notice since the news media on the right will simply call it a win against the left and they will lap it up.

    I so hope I am wrong.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by RonZeplin View Post
    I'm not pushing your Trumpkin agenda for you. I disagree with your shuck 'n jive analysis, most of what you said about me is not true. I discuss a wide range of issues, on many different topics.

    If Trump ever does anything good i MAY mention it, or not.
    You are a TDS troll, you don't post anything but attacks on Trump.

    Prove me wrong, show just one post where you admit one good thing Trump has done about either or one post in the last year where you attacked anyone else or opposed anyone on this forum.

    You prove your dishonesty with that out of context deceptively edited quote that doesn't include a link to the original.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    I am afraid Trump is going to virtue signal big time tomorrow when calling for an emergency to build the wall. Something like him giving away DACA, pathway to citizenship and more high tech H-1B visas. The shills on the right will call it a win and praise how he outmaneuvered the left despite the reality of betraying his base with policies that will increase immigration.

    The average Joe on the right won't notice since the news media on the right will simply call it a win against the left and they will lap it up.

    I so hope I am wrong.
    Why would he give the left a single thing if he has to declare an emergency to build the wall?
    He can just build the wall and then agree to sign one of the bills they already passed without any of those things.
    Thanks to Pelosi refusing to give one dollar for the wall the danger of him trading away any of those things is nil.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  20. #17
    Then again,...maybe this shutdown forces them to find money elsewhere and to do that they withdraw troops from overseas? Has anyone touched on this topic? any facts? idk, I'm spit balling here.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  21. #18

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You are a TDS troll, you don't post anything but attacks on Trump.

    Prove me wrong, show just one post where you admit one good thing Trump has done about either or one post in the last year where you attacked anyone else or opposed anyone on this forum.

    You prove your dishonesty with that out of context deceptively edited quote that doesn't include a link to the original.
    You're full of what makes the grass grow green, just plain inaccurate.

    Swordsmyth
    It's almost like you don't really care about illegal immigration or abortion, you just care about attacking Trump even though he has done more on both issues than any other president we have had in a very long time.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6737336
    You couldn't be more wrong, complete BS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again

  22. #19
    He's going to give the Democrats an ultimatum of a week or two to come to the table and negotiate, and if they fail, he will be declaring a national emergency in order to get funds from the Pentagon to pay for the wall.

    But in all honesty, it feels like it's going to be the default disappointment. He could keep the momentum going, keep the government shut down, continue making fools of the Democrats, continue making fools of the deep state run media, etc, but he will do something that slips himself up and betrays his base instead. That's what it often feels like, but you never know until he actually commits. The Syria and Afghanistan announcements were massive surprises, praying it's something like that, but not exactly hopeful. Either way, enjoying the hilarity of the Democrat elites squirming like crazy with the Great Flight Cancellation and Great Bus Fiasco of 2019.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Why would he give the left a single thing if he has to declare an emergency to build the wall?
    He can just build the wall and then agree to sign one of the bills they already passed without any of those things.
    Thanks to Pelosi refusing to give one dollar for the wall the danger of him trading away any of those things is nil.
    For someone that sticks to his principles it makes no sense. I fear that he believes it is more important to him to boast about how he accomplished these things without them, boasting of his win in doing so and then basking in the praise from the corporate media on the right. He seeks affirmation from his adversaries time and time again, and will do anything to attain praise.

    If he follows through he will virtue signal about this for years on end and how minorities and immigrants love him for it. He will use it for his 2020 campaign which he will lose miserably by betraying his campaign promises and his base. The minorities will still vote Democrat regardless and they will not be enough to offset the numbers who stay home whom he betrayed.

    Again, I hope I am wrong.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    For someone that sticks to his principles it makes no sense. I fear that he believes it is more important to him to boast about how he accomplished these things without them, boasting of his win in doing so and then basking in the praise from the corporate media on the right. He seeks affirmation from his adversaries time and time again, and will do anything to attain praise.

    If he follows through he will virtue signal about this for years on end and how minorities and immigrants love him for it. He will use it for his 2020 campaign which he will lose miserably by betraying his campaign promises and his base. The minorities will still vote Democrat regardless and they will not be enough to offset the numbers who stay home whom he betrayed.

    Again, I hope I am wrong.
    It's possible but I would think that he would demand something else as part of any such deal, just giving those things away doesn't make any sense even if you are right.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by RonZeplin View Post
    You're full of what makes the grass grow green, just plain inaccurate.



    You couldn't be more wrong, complete BS.
    I don't see you proving me wrong or you removing that misleading quote.

    You might as well just admit you are a TDS troll because your behavior already does.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It's possible but I would think that he would demand something else as part of any such deal, just giving those things away doesn't make any sense even if you are right.
    What did he get for the bump stock ban?

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    What did he get for the bump stock ban?
    The theory is that he got to defuse the demands for a semi-auto ban.
    I disagree with him about it but he didn't just give the left everything they wanted in return for nothing.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't see you proving me wrong or you removing that misleading quote.

    You might as well just admit you are a TDS troll because your behavior already does.
    This conversation with you is OVER. The end.

    You'll have to figure out some other way to divert attention away from the topic of this thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by RonZeplin View Post
    This conversation with you is OVER. The end.

    You'll have to figure out some other way to divert attention away from the topic of this thread.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  31. #27
    If I were Trump, I'd keep the shutdown going until those workers give up and rejoin the private sector. Then when people realize they don't really miss all that government, I'd cut it. Democrats won't be able to fearmonger anymore and dangle that carrot over people since the people themselves will have given up on having all that extra government.

    The most dangerous thing for the democrats is that people realize we don't really need all that government. Kind of like how declaring 'we'll all starve if we lose food stamps' doesn't work too well on people who have actually found meaningful work and no longer need them. Trump has already kicked that leg off from under their chair.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 01-19-2019 at 06:49 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  32. #28
    Supporting Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Ok, but realistically that is extremely unlikely.
    Would be very surprised if it even crossed 2-3 months mark.


    But hopes can be different, this poll is about projection/prediction.
    In that case my prediction is that Trump will win and the Democrats will fold first.
    Citizen of Arizona
    @cleaner4d4

    I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He is winning, he should demand his entire wishlist.
    Looks like he's driving that behind the scenes through his senior advisors:

    I'm the one that's pushing DACA, Trump tells Judge Jeanine

    Kushner reaches out to Congress on shutdown, 'DACA for the wall' deal gains steam

    Trump & Democrats Near Agreement on DACA


    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post

    The most dangerous thing for the democrats is that people realize we don't really need all that government. Kind of like how declaring 'we'll all starve if we lose food stamps' doesn't work too well on people who have actually found meaningful work and no longer need them. Trump has already kicked that leg off from under their chair.
    Reportedly there was a reversal:

    White House reverses course on food stamp funding
    01/08/2019
    Trump administration officials said Tuesday that the Agriculture Department will be able to pay out food stamp benefits for the entire month of February — tamping down fears that the partial government shutdown could have resulted in rationing or halting of benefits. The assurance that the food stamp program, which serves nearly 39 million people, would be on secure financial footing for February marked another major reversal from the administration in the ongoing shutdown fight.
    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...nefits-1069641

    President Trump Signs Back Pay Bill
    President Donald Trump has signed the bill guaranteeing back pay for the furloughed federal government workers, which underscores the reason for this shutdown: Democrats refusing to provide $5.7 billion in funds for President Trump’s southern border wall.

  34. #30
    People that are truly cold and hungry would be happy to be in a 50* draft free environment with warm clothing eating squirrel.

    Ultimately Pelosi will fold under duress claiming it was for the people she represents not for Trumps wall.
    Last edited by Schifference; 01-19-2019 at 09:46 AM.

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