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Thread: Time For Libertarians To Leave The GOP?

  1. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And we should just believe that you left it?
    What was it you said about the LP guy?
    I have no problem admitting that I previously worked in a lot of swampy places and witnessed a lot of swampy things. Hell, I'm even from a swampy family. You'd probably be jealous of my resume and family lol. It gave me great insight that has served me well later in life for recognizing swampy things when I see them and recognizing people that are full of $#@! when I see them, also.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book



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  3. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    I have no problem admitting that I previously worked in a lot of swampy places and witnessed a lot of swampy things. Hell, I'm even from a swampy family. You'd probably be jealous of my resume and family lol. It gave me great insight that has served me well later in life for recognizing swampy things when I see them and recognizing people that are full of $#@! when I see them, also.
    Your record speaks for itself and now your admitted background adds to it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  5. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Your record speaks for itself and now your admitted background adds to it.
    Haha yeah my record as a 12 year daily member of this forum and dedicated activist for libertarian causes is just a ruse for my real agenda of infiltrating the liberty movement, working on libertarian candidate campaigns and spreading knowledge of how the world really works. I'm a slick one, for sure.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  6. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Any book can be incorrectly translated. But with the texts in the original languages still there for anyone to study, I don't see why that's a big deal. It certainly doesn't put the Bible into any special category of being inaccessible or corrupted relative to any other books.

    Most of the rest of what you say looks like baseless conspiracy theory. The Nicene Creed had nothing to do with the making of the Bible. I'm not sure what you mean about writings being thrown out or discarded, but we still have all the scriptures that Jesus and the apostles read as scripture in what is today known as the Old Testament, and the ones they passed on to the Church for her permanent use in what is today known as the New Testament, in forms that are in all important respects no different than the forms they took in the first century. If some people choose to discard any or all of those books from their own use, that reflects on them, but not the scriptures.

    The Hebrew word used in Exodus 22:17 (verse 18 in English versions) is mecashephah, meaning "one who practices sorcery," from the verb cashaph, which means to practice sorcery. Three centuries before Christ, and 19 centuries before King James, it had already been translated into Greek with the word pharmakos, which also meant one who practices sorcery. It was also translated as "witch" in the English translations that preceded the KJV.
    Hmmmmm.....
    Constantine, who formed & controlled the Nicene Creed was a pagan.
    75 Books were taken out of the original writings- including some of Jesus words (The Book of Thomas.)
    And the word that was later translated to witch originally meant herbalist or poisoner.
    Here's an interesting article on the probable meanings & translations:

    https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/...tion-1.5443682

    And I'm not going to get into a heated discussion on religion- I am a minister and have studied the histories of the ancient texts etc for a long time. You can believe what you wish.
    There is no spoon.

  7. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Pathological libertarian resorting to insults and name calling when you present true reality to them, I have to tell you that I did not see that coming. Nothing I said in that post is dumb but the purist libertarians will reject true reality. I don't like Trump but even I can see the many positives that he is solely responsible for. You can't say that about your boy Amash.

    I will take Trump while we wait for libertarian utopia that will never come. The state is here to stay, big govt and welfare socialism can be harnessed to benefit liberty. I am done complaining about Trump.
    He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.
    "It's probably the biggest hoax since Big Foot!" - Mitt Romney 1-16-2012 SC Debate

  8. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Do you also agree with this?
    Are you asking if I think big govt and welfare socialism can be harnessed to benefit liberty? If that is your question, my answer is no. There certainly are choices we can make under such circumstances and some choices are better than others for liberty.

    Small government > BIG GOVT

    Low taxes > welfare state

    capitalism > socialism

    I do however appreciate having a president that publicly declares the media as fake. The more people that learn the truth of fake news the better. When have you ever seen a president say such things?
    Last edited by Cleaner44; 06-19-2019 at 09:09 AM.
    Citizen of Arizona
    @cleaner4d4

    I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.

  9. #157
    LOL yea and go to the LP where the chairman actively shts on Ron Paul and their best candidate at the moment is Adam Kokesh.

    Smart move! Yea do it!
    THE SQUAD of RPF
    1. enhanced_deficit - Paid Troll / John Bolton book promoter
    2. Devil21 - LARPing Wizard, fake magical script reader
    3. Firestarter - Tax Troll; anti-tax = "criminal behavior"
    4. TheCount - Comet Pizza Pedo Denier <-- sick

    @Ehanced_Deficit's real agenda on RPF =troll:

    Who spends this much time copy/pasting the same recycled links, photos/talking points.

    7 yrs/25k posts later RPF'ers still respond to this troll

  10. #158
    Time for pro foreign intervention monarchists to leave the LP?
    ...

  11. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    Time for pro foreign intervention GLOBALIST monarchists to leave the LP?
    Fixed it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #160
    The problem with the Libertarian Party is that its filled with a bunch of beta males who run beta male candidates. If the party spend the past few decades running people with alpha male personalities, the party wouldn't be having a lot of issues right now. They don't even need to be alpha males in the same vain as Trump. They just have to be alpha males in general. I love Ron, Rand, Massie, and Amash. I appreciate everything they have done over the years. But until they start acting like alpha males, nothing is ever doing to get done. Trump is an alpha male whether we want to admit it or not. Trump gave us the blue print on how to win elections. Whether he did that on purpose or not I have no idea. In fact, all the GOP has to do from this point onward is to have every Republican candidate campaign the exact way Trump did, and you'll probably go a couple decades without a Democrat in office.
    Last edited by Anti Globalist; 06-19-2019 at 09:44 PM.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge



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  14. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    The problem with the Libertarian Party is that its filled with a bunch of beta males who run beta male candidates. If the party spend the past few decades running people with alpha male personalities, the party wouldn't be having a lot of issues right now. They don't even need to be alpha males in the same vain as Trump. They just have to be alpha males in general. I love Ron, Rand, Massie, and Amash. I appreciate everything they have done over the years. But until they start acting like alpha males, nothing is ever doing to get done. Trump is an alpha male whether we want to admit it or not. Trump gave us the blue print on how to win elections. Whether he did that on purpose or not I have no idea. In fact, all the GOP has to do from this point onward is to have every Republican candidate campaign the exact way Trump did, and you'll probably go a couple decades without a Democrat in office.
    Sheeple need leaders to lead them to liberty.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #162
    Also how the $#@! do you expect people to take libertarians seriously when you have $#@! like this:

    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  16. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    Also how the $#@! do you expect people to take libertarians seriously when you have $#@! like this:



    I agree!
    On Trump:
    How conservative Republicans can continue to support this arrogant imposter—the man who brags about inflicting the world with the Covid mark of the beast; the man who said, “Take the guns first, go through due process second”; and the man who deliberately played and then set up Stewart Rhodes (of course, Stewart was all too eager to be Trump’s patsy) for an 18-year prison sentence—is truly beyond my comprehension.” Chuck Baldwin

  17. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Cap View Post


    I agree!
    Trump is not a libertarian and the weirdo sexual performance by Trump wasn't done during party function, these 2 don't compare. I still think someone is trying to sabotage the libertarian party because this help the D and R party.

    I think if all the libertarians LARPing in the republican party all came back to the libertarian party, we could be able to clean the trolls out and make something good out of it. At it is, there is no way we can make any meaningful change in the democrat or republican party, our numbers are too small and our voices will be drowned out by the noise from both parties.

  18. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    Also how the $#@! do you expect people to take libertarians seriously when you have $#@! like this:

    I have it on good authority that the crowd was ready to dismember that man for that stunt. Crap like that (and Sarwark, eg) is to intentionally discredit the LP.


    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    The problem with the Libertarian Party is that its filled with a bunch of beta males who run beta male candidates. If the party spend the past few decades running people with alpha male personalities, the party wouldn't be having a lot of issues right now. They don't even need to be alpha males in the same vain as Trump. They just have to be alpha males in general. I love Ron, Rand, Massie, and Amash. I appreciate everything they have done over the years. But until they start acting like alpha males, nothing is ever doing to get done. Trump is an alpha male whether we want to admit it or not. Trump gave us the blue print on how to win elections. Whether he did that on purpose or not I have no idea. In fact, all the GOP has to do from this point onward is to have every Republican candidate campaign the exact way Trump did, and you'll probably go a couple decades without a Democrat in office.
    This I can mostly agree with. A lack of alpha-ness and military style thinking/campaigning does hurt 3rd parties. I've been working on an LP congressional candidate to be more assertive and more about following the typical campaign roadmap, instead of writing long op-eds that no one reads. We'll see if it yields any improved results.
    Last edited by devil21; 06-20-2019 at 11:18 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  19. #166
    It probably goes without saying, but it is not only time for libertarians to stop working with the GOP, but for all people to abandon both of these parties that hate and despise every last person that makes up their voting base. Some liberal minded people have their #walkaway movement going and I'm seeing ordinary folks taking notice of it too. All of these parties are already in the process of dying, same with the legacy media that has helped prop them up. In my estimation, Trump gave some of these disenfranchised citizens a last bit of hope in some ways, or a last gasp attempt for the GOP to do something right, but Trump is going to be gone in 2-6 years regardless of what you think of him and regardless of what happens in 2020 and then they are going to be left with reality. It isn't happening today or tomorrow, but it's happening within all of our lifetimes and it may be happening sooner than any of us could have imagined. People are moving on and not buying into the garbage anymore. The Iran false flag(s) in recent days and the response by "normies" even rolling their eyes at the entire thing is a sign of this.

    There will be those that say "nope, we're screwed" or "I'm not holding my breath" and will stick to that mantra to their dying breath. If that's what they want to do with their time here, then that's their prerogative. There is still a lot of work to do, but you can see all of this is already in the process of happening thanks to forums like this , video sharing sites, and even social media networks that many of us despise, and all of these are having a hand in the enlightenment of the people to the debt, the corporate control and influence, the illusion of liberty and free elections, and fraud that is our current nation building, Israel protecting, fascist/communist welfare for all empire.

    I pray to God that we can accomplish this all without too many people dying. Some days it feels like we can, other days it feels like some ridiculous battle with various factions fighting leftism/communism/socialism that will not let go of the idea of having everyone live under their vision of "equality for all" must be enforced by "any means necessary." I think they will cower in the end, but as this country (and others throughout history) has proven, propaganda can get just about anyone to do evil things in the name of perceived justice and victory.

  20. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Champ View Post
    It probably goes without saying, but it is not only time for libertarians to stop working with the GOP, but for all people to abandon both of these parties that hate and despise every last person that makes up their voting base. Some liberal minded people have their #walkaway movement going and I'm seeing ordinary folks taking notice of it too. All of these parties are already in the process of dying, same with the legacy media that has helped prop them up. In my estimation, Trump gave some of these disenfranchised citizens a last bit of hope in some ways, or a last gasp attempt for the GOP to do something right, but Trump is going to be gone in 2-6 years regardless of what you think of him and regardless of what happens in 2020 and then they are going to be left with reality. It isn't happening today or tomorrow, but it's happening within all of our lifetimes and it may be happening sooner than any of us could have imagined. People are moving on and not buying into the garbage anymore. The Iran false flag(s) in recent days and the response by "normies" even rolling their eyes at the entire thing is a sign of this.

    There will be those that say "nope, we're screwed" or "I'm not holding my breath" and will stick to that mantra to their dying breath. If that's what they want to do with their time here, then that's their prerogative. There is still a lot of work to do, but you can see all of this is already in the process of happening thanks to forums like this , video sharing sites, and even social media networks that many of us despise, and all of these are having a hand in the enlightenment of the people to the debt, the corporate control and influence, the illusion of liberty and free elections, and fraud that is our current nation building, Israel protecting, fascist/communist welfare for all empire.

    I pray to God that we can accomplish this all without too many people dying. Some days it feels like we can, other days it feels like some ridiculous battle with various factions fighting leftism/communism/socialism that will not let go of the idea of having everyone live under their vision of "equality for all" must be enforced by "any means necessary." I think they will cower in the end, but as this country (and others throughout history) has proven, propaganda can get just about anyone to do evil things in the name of perceived justice and victory.
    AMEN!
    There is no spoon.

  21. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Trump is not a libertarian and the weirdo sexual performance by Trump wasn't done during party function, these 2 don't compare. I still think someone is trying to sabotage the libertarian party because this help the D and R party.

    I think if all the libertarians LARPing in the republican party all came back to the libertarian party, we could be able to clean the trolls out and make something good out of it. At it is, there is no way we can make any meaningful change in the democrat or republican party, our numbers are too small and our voices will be drowned out by the noise from both parties.
    The libertarians in the GOP have done far more good than the LP ever has or ever could.
    The Constitution party might give the GOP a run for their money if the real small government supporters left the GOP and joined it but they would have to keep the anarchists and weirdos out.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  23. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Cap View Post


    I agree!
    +rep

    Weeks is..... Better Than Trump
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again

  24. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Trump is not a libertarian and the weirdo sexual performance by Trump wasn't done during party function, these 2 don't compare. I still think someone is trying to sabotage the libertarian party because this help the D and R party.

    I think if all the libertarians LARPing in the republican party all came back to the libertarian party, we could be able to clean the trolls out and make something good out of it. At it is, there is no way we can make any meaningful change in the democrat or republican party, our numbers are too small and our voices will be drowned out by the noise from both parties.
    Actually, in my experience, at the leadership levels of the GOP and DNC at least, it's the simple fact that they don't care for playing by any set of rules and simply do what they want to maintain control over the parties. The sheep follow along, yes, but the head is where the poisoning starts. They don't mind rigging conventions, lying about votes, engaging in bribes (see: NCGOP Chairman Robin Hayes recent indictment) and every other type of corruption imaginable. Anybody that was involved in the convention processes during RP's campaigns knows what I'm talking about. It's a combination of sociopath/psychopath need to engage in dirty pool but also to maintain their cushy jobs that pay them to do mostly nothing.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  25. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The libertarians in the GOP have done far more good than the LP ever has or ever could.
    The Constitution party might give the GOP a run for their money if the real small government supporters left the GOP and joined it but they would have to keep the anarchists and weirdos out.
    Rand Paul alone has done more than the Libertarian party ever has in my opinion.

    The best path forward seems obvious to me. While the Marxists are dividing themselves in the Democrat party, libertarians should work like Rand to advance limited government ideals within the Republican party. Bill Kristol and his ilk are weakened and should be completely pushed out of the Republican party and back to the Democrat party from whence they came. Many Republican voters that very recently nominated John McCain now see him as a traitor when it came to killing Obamacare. The GOP has been moved away from the neocons and more of that is what we need.

    I see the best path as remaking the GOP as much as possible to be a conservative alternative to the Marxist party.

    Unfortunately the reality is that America is a 2 party nation. Given this reality and the fact that the Democrat party is publicly dedicated to communism, there is only 1 viable alternative. It seems to me the best choice is to work on making the GOP adhere to the small government philosophy that the party stands for on paper.

    Citizen of Arizona
    @cleaner4d4

    I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.

  26. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
    Rand Paul alone has done more than the Libertarian party ever has in my opinion.

    The best path forward seems obvious to me. While the Marxists are dividing themselves in the Democrat party, libertarians should work like Rand to advance limited government ideals within the Republican party. Bill Kristol and his ilk are weakened and should be completely pushed out of the Republican party and back to the Democrat party from whence they came. Many Republican voters that very recently nominated John McCain now see him as a traitor when it came to killing Obamacare. The GOP has been moved away from the neocons and more of that is what we need.

    I see the best path as remaking the GOP as much as possible to be a conservative alternative to the Marxist party.

    Unfortunately the reality is that America is a 2 party nation. Given this reality and the fact that the Democrat party is publicly dedicated to communism, there is only 1 viable alternative. It seems to me the best choice is to work on making the GOP adhere to the small government philosophy that the party stands for on paper.

    You are probably correct but if the Demoncrats shatter there might be an opportunity to break up the GOP and switch to the Constitution Party.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #173
    Some people just want to be contrarian and an outsider no matter what the cost is. That's just who they are. They will never win. They love losing. It's a martyrs complex, self defeating, and a loser attitude.

    We can lead the people. The people need leaders. Leaving the GOP is a fools errand at this time.

  28. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    If Amash loses his seat he should run for president in 2020 and get his own back on Trump. This is becoming personal and I prefer to stand with Amash
    Amash does that and his political career will be over.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  29. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    Amash does that and his political career will be over.
    If it isn't already.

    It's a shame to lose him.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #176

    Lightbulb MAGA, never vote D or R again

    No loss if Donnell & Joe Biden along with the D&R party disappears .

    The Constitution & Libertarian parties etc. can then offer the voters a choice, between some pro-American candidates.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again



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  32. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    I don't dislike libertarians. I dislike their methods. The very premise of the thread is to give bad advice on what libertarians should do to become even more politically impotent than they already are. What exactly is that going to solve?
    We have no political power now and we won't till our numbers increase dramatically. The only question is how to grow our numbers. One, very stupid strategy is to actively support our enemies, merge with them, and lose our identity altogether: i.e. bring our numbers down to 0. That might provide some delusional good feelz about "having a seat at the table," but it's political suicide. The better alternative is to become an opposition party, which has several major advantages:

    --You don't have to worry about the short-term political consequences of your actions (you're not competing in elections).
    --You can blame your enemies for the status quo (because they're in power), while they can't blame you (because you're not)
    --You appear to be more honest and well-meaning, even to people who disagree with you (power doesn't corrupt if you have none)
    --People fundamentally like an underdog.

    Ask yourself if Ron would have been able to build the movement that he did if he had been a "team player" in the GOP. He wouldn't have. Those advantages listed above are what enabled Ron to appear as the telling-truth-to-power outsider that he was. And by that method he was able to massively increase the size of the libertarian movement. All of those gains have been lost in recent years through excessive fraternization with the GOP.

    This is especially effective during times of crisis. Ron's success was a result of the application of the "outsider" strategy at the right moment (Great Recession). With the US heading toward another recession, the stars are aligning again. It is the perfect time to slip out the back door of the palace and start blaming the government for what's about to happen.

  33. #178
    Finally read through the whole thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by cruzrulez View Post
    Some people just want to be contrarian and an outsider no matter what the cost is. That's just who they are. They will never win. They love losing. It's a martyrs complex, self defeating, and a loser attitude.

    We can lead the people. The people need leaders. Leaving the GOP is a fools errand at this time.
    Agreed and I think this insight is related to the concept of "rational irrationality" (more that see below) and applies to most politics regardless of philosophy. Not sure how to address it except for have as many credible people that can make the case when our ideas are more appealing. Trump ran for President and didn't go anywhere in 2000 but because of the issues of 2016 he was more appealing and was able to win.

    I think we keep our ideas in the mix and wait for a moment for objective conditions to improve. I realize there's a pro-government bias in politics but if the self identified democratic socialists can elect representatives (AOC) and Senators (Sanders) in a major party so can we.

    A tangent (optional reading) on Rational Irrationality since I think it explains politics and potential strategy a lot.

    "In typical large democracies, each individual voter has a very low probability of influencing the outcome of an election or determining whether a particular policy will be implemented. Thus, the expected cost of supporting an erroneous policy (obtained by multiplying the cost of the policy by the probability that the individual voter will have a decisive role in influencing the policy) is very low. The psychological benefits of supporting policies that feel good but are in fact harmful may be greater than these small expected costs. This creates a situation where voters may be rationally irrational for practical morale reasons."

    Admittedly Stereotypical examples:
    For Democrats: "I believe in equality and so should any decent person. Democrats support closing the gap by taxing the rich and I vote for them because I'm a good person and not evil"

    For Republicans: "I believe in America and so should any decent person. Republicans support building a wall and I vote for them because I'm a good person and not evil"

    For Libertarians: "I believe in liberty and so should any decent person. Libertarians support letting people consume what they want I vote for them because I'm a good person and not evil"

    For Greens: "I believe in protecting the environment and so should any decent person. Greens support carbon taxes and I vote for them because I'm a good person and not evil"

    etc

    So I am still thinking about what the best approach to strategy is and i think it a part of it is doing a better job of appealing to peoples desire to do the right thing and show that being pro-liberty helps them accomplish what they really want in most cases. For example to prospective Democrat voters emphasizing that high taxes and a bad economy hurt lower income brackets more and that if they really wanted to help we should focus on growth.
    Last edited by Libertea Party; 06-22-2019 at 08:38 PM.
    "The president does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack...that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation." "Attack Libya UPDATE 8/13: and Syria"

    "We can track down terrorists without trampling on our civil liberties.... the federal government will only issue warrants and execute searches because it needs to, not because it can." "Need to murder UPDATE 8/13: and track citizens" ~ Barack H. Obama

  34. #179
    Maybe this is not the thread to put down these thoughts, but what the heck.

    Although I see a ton of disagreement and different strategies laid out in the thread, I find myself agreeing with just about everyone for different reasons.

    The thing that matters the most to me, is putting in some level of effort and work into realizing these strategies and talking to people with some sense of passion or conviction about what you feel is going wrong right now with political parties, the country, and the world. Doing nothing and letting reality pass you by while other more ambitious folk decide your future for you and everyone you know will certainly not result in a desired outcome.

    I'm talking to anyone and everyone that will listen (and those that will not) about all of the topics we see pop up here on a daily basis. All of my neighbors, locals, friends, and family are informed about this stuff, and many of them were not until I let them know. Social media is one avenue, you can reach a lot of people there and through videos etc, but there are a ton of people that do not use those platforms, you've gotta look local too. And yeah, you get some eye rolls, oh well, but it has opened up a lot of surprisingly productive conversations with people that I figured would despise talking about any of these topics. When I brought some of this stuff up circa 2007, people laughed, when I bring it up now, those same people seem engaged. People are fed up with what's happening in the government and the endless supply of lies we are being fed from all angles. It's not reflected on the msm news or other pre-approved forms of media, but I think the reality of the situation is starting to sink in.

    This is not nearly enough to make a difference on it's own, not even close, but it's a start. If everyone is educating (unlearning) people around them, then I truly feel we will see things moving in a different direction soon and this pivot away from the status quo has surely already begun.

  35. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I will report violations of the forum rules to the forum staff when they are egregious enough.

    You should remember that.

    The face of liberty.

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