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Thread: Comcast Hints At Plan For Paid Fast Lanes After Net Neutrality Repeal

  1. #61
    Some public utilities are building open-access fiber optic networks where the fiber is essentially a road, allowing small businesses to become ISPs for next to nothing Grant County PUD in Washington State has 24 ISPs using their fiber. Ammon, Idaho has 10-ish I think. The model that we use in most of the US for network access is beyond stupid to anyone who understands how networks work.

    A large ISP like Comcast can peer directly with Netflix for free because it benefits them both allowing them to bypass the more expensive commodity internet so its actually waaay cheaper for them to deliver the content to you but they want to charge you more for it.

    This is the solution.
    http://www.yesmagazine.org/people-po...backs-20171122



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  3. #62

  4. #63
    LibForestPaul
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Your team on this is over at Reddit. History shows again and again and again that deregulation always provides better service at lower prices.

    People who do not stream movies and do not play games should not have to support that infastructure.

    If, as the left claims, the internet is a utility, then I would remind you that utilities are metered in most municipalities. I know of one here where water isn't. The company who owns the golf course pays the same amount every month as the guy who owns a little house in the village. Guess who supports that arrangement? Don't be that guy.
    History shows democracy is a farce. The telecom players will continue to pay-off locals to make certain access to the poles are kept as they are. There will be NO competition. Any who try will get a state boot to the face. Unless they pay to play. Get the lube out, cause boobus Americanus wants to take it up, and hard.

  5. #64
    Who bears the cost to ensure internet traffic is treated neutrally?
    Support Justin Amash for Congress
    Michigan Congressional District 3



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I still haven't figured out how a lot of "libertarians" are in favor of net neutrality. Cable companies should be able to charge what they want and offer whatever services they want. Then the customer decides to accept or reject.
    Likewise

    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    I disagree with your idea that there will be no competition because of deregulation, there is no competition because there is still regulation, just not at the FCC. Even with the FCC getting rid of net neutrality you have the AT&T merger getting blocked. Its like when the liberals say that capitalism doesn't work because America is $#@!ting the bed. We don't have capitalism, we don't have deregulation, we have an interventionist economy that is $#@!ting the bed.
    Well said

    And even if some utilities are natural monopolies, there's no reason to suppose that a state monopoly or state regulatory regime would be an improvement. A private monopoly faces no competition, but at least it still faces the demand curve.

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    Who bears the cost to ensure internet traffic is treated neutrally?
    Neutrality is a joke, peering isn't free Netflix lost that lawsuit and pays for it. Netflix and YouTube get free bandwidth essentially companies like Amazon who has an internet content delivery network that is the most efficient in the world can't even compete. You can't even get your ISP to fix bad internet routing because they have no incentives to monetize bandwidth. Its got to the point where The left is arguing for YouTube and Netflix to be a utility
    Last edited by nikcers; 11-29-2017 at 09:50 PM.

  9. #67
    The left is now threatening violence against people who have no control over net neutrality

    In roughly two weeks, the FCC’s three Republican commissioners, led by its chairman, Ajit Pai, will vote to adopt what’s known as the Restoring Internet Freedom Order. As the minority, the two Democrats who serve on the commission, both of which favor net neutrality, will be powerless to stop them.

    According to the U.S. Attorney's Office, Angelo allegedly called the Washington, D.C., office of Congressman John Katko, R-Camillus, on Oct. 17 and left a threatening voicemail that included a death threat to Katko and his family if the congressman didn't support net neutrality.

    Katko represents New York's 24th District, which includes all of Wayne County.

    Syracuse was arrested and charged by criminal complaint with interstate communication of a threat and threatening a federal official, authorities announced. The charges carry a maximum of 10 years in federal prison and a fine of $250,000.

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Exactly. We all willingly tripled our monthly internet expense when we were given the choice to go from dial-up to DSL then most of us gleefully abandoned DSL when cable came through. Technology improvements always cost the early adopters more.
    No so much, I was happy being on DSL, worked great. It was only the realization that AT&T kept bumping my cost per month up around $5 a year, then when I realized I was paying close to what a beginner cable package costs, yet is multiple times faster with more bandwidth, and that AT&T has a very cozy relationship with federal spying programs (having greatly benefited from 9/11), I ditched them and left them to go f-themselves.
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius

    They’re not buying it. CNN, you dumb bastards!” — President Trump 2020

    Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    I'm kind of torn on it, TBH. It's like power companies. You don't really get a choice. I suppose you could go solar if your area's climate supports it.

    While on paper, the libertarian argument is that there would be 500 separate competing cable internet lines running between every telephone pole and you just choose the company you want, I'm not sure how practical that is.

    It's why I'm not hardcore on private roads either. You won't ever see 20 two-lane roads owned by private entrepreneurs, running parallel to each other 10 feet apart and you just pick the one with the best prices. Not saying the government does a great job, though. I don't think there'd be much grass left if it were left up to private companies.
    I agree with you about the roads and the power companies. In that case it's much more of a natural monopoly. But I don't think that's the case with the internet. The way I understand it the government maintains the main lines and sells access to those lines, but they don't limit the number of companies that can offer service in any given area. And there's many way to get access to those main lines, you can even do it thru cell towers. Actually I think at some point it'll be cheap enough to use your cell phone as a your ISP. I admit it sucks if you live in a rural area and only have one provider (I've been there), but one important question is "do you have a right to cheap internet access?"

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I agree with you about the roads and the power companies. In that case it's much more of a natural monopoly. But I don't think that's the case with the internet. The way I understand it the government maintains the main lines and sells access to those lines, but they don't limit the number of companies that can offer service in any given area. And there's many way to get access to those main lines, you can even do it thru cell towers. Actually I think at some point it'll be cheap enough to use your cell phone as a your ISP. I admit it sucks if you live in a rural area and only have one provider (I've been there), but one important question is "do you have a right to cheap internet access?"
    Local governments signed franchise agreements granting monopolies to the telephone and cable companies so that they would build infrastructure. In many cases those agreements are expired and not renewed. With fiber and ethernet though, the model can be much more flexible. Watch this video on Ammon, Idaho's open access network.



    Wireless will never catch up to fiber. 5G is going to require towers every mile to provide decent coverage which isn't feasible for rural people. Through utility and telephone cooperatives rural people were able to get cost of money loans through the USDA to finance electricity and telephony. Several of the telephone cooperatives in rural Tennessee are now deploying fiber to the home and soon many electrical cooperatives will to.

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by FunkBuddha View Post

    A large ISP like Comcast can peer directly with Netflix for free because it benefits them both allowing them to bypass the more expensive commodity internet so its actually waaay cheaper for them to deliver the content to you but they want to charge you more ]
    YAY! I want the government to demand free stuff for me!!!!! Yay yay yay yay yay!!!

    One of biggest things that started this drama was an offer by Netflix to pay Comcast so their customers would have access to better quality streaming. God forbid.

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    YAY! I want the government to demand free stuff for me!!!!! Yay yay yay yay yay!!!

    One of biggest things that started this drama was an offer by Netflix to pay Comcast so their customers would have access to better quality streaming. God forbid.
    https://arstechnica.com/information-...-free-peering/



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  16. #73
    Why Google Fiber, unlike Comcast, gives Netflix free peering

    YouTube's owner would probably like free peering from Comcast, too. Google owns YouTube, the second biggest online video service in North America in terms of traffic, and has direct interconnection dealswith AT&T, Comcast, Verizon, and other ISPs. Google hasn't said whether it's paying those companies for the direct interconnections, but it's a good bet that it is making payments.


    Comcast and other ISPs have demanded that Netflix enter "paid peering" agreements to get direct connections to their networks Burgan wrote. "We don’t make money from peering or colocation... change the way we manage our network in any meaningful way—Google's argument is, naturally, a bit self-serving as it is more of a content provider than an ISP Still, Google hasn't complained publicly about its interconnection agreements. Netflix has, asking the Federal Communications Commission to protect it from having to pay ISPs.

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Why Google Fiber, unlike Comcast, gives Netflix free peering

    YouTube's owner would probably like free peering from Comcast, too. Google owns YouTube, the second biggest online video service in North America in terms of traffic, and has direct interconnection dealswith AT&T, Comcast, Verizon, and other ISPs. Google hasn't said whether it's paying those companies for the direct interconnections, but it's a good bet that it is making payments.
    Yes. Interconnecting benefits both parties. Comcast just chose to be a dick about it which is one reason why this whole net neutrality $#@! show came to be. FWIW I'm a network operator for a provider with about 50,000 end users. Hopefully we're about to enter a peering arrangement in Atlanta to connect us to every major provider at 10 Gb/s for between $500 and $900 a month. Compared to our commodity internet traffic which is around $2 per Mb/s.

    I'm not arguing that the government should step in, just that Comcast was trying to extort Netflix in that deal. If they were really interested in providing a better customer experience they'd have done as Google did, but Comcast is a government granted/subsidized monopoly in most places so they don't really give a $#@! about the customer experience because what are you gonna do, go DSL?

  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by FunkBuddha View Post
    Yes. Interconnecting benefits both parties. Comcast just chose to be a dick about it which is one reason why this whole net neutrality $#@! show came to be. FWIW I'm a network operator for a provider with about 50,000 end users. Hopefully we're about to enter a peering arrangement in Atlanta to connect us to every major provider at 10 Gb/s for between $500 and $900 a month. Compared to our commodity internet traffic which is around $2 per Mb/s.

    I'm not arguing that the government should step in, just that Comcast was trying to extort Netflix in that deal. If they were really interested in providing a better customer experience they'd have done as Google did, but Comcast is a government granted/subsidized monopoly in most places so they don't really give a $#@! about the customer experience because what are you gonna do, go DSL?
    LOL Google is the government tax breaks were given to people to build fiber in places that no one would buy internet service. Google bought it all for pennies on the dollar and then said they could host netflix data for no cost. That's right, Google can do lots of things other companies can't do for no cost. That should be a benefit to google fiber customers though- the government shouldn't force companies to shoulder costs that others don't have to that's the definition of crony capitalism.

  19. #76
    Here's one Internet Exchange. All of these companies peer with one another through the exchange. There are hundreds of locations like this around the world where content providers and ISPs peer with one another, usually for a cross connect fee and a relatively small monthly charge. Are you arguing that companies don't do this unless they're Google and Netflix?

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by FunkBuddha View Post
    Here's one Internet Exchange. All of these companies peer with one another through the exchange. There are hundreds of locations like this around the world where content providers and ISPs peer with one another, usually for a cross connect fee and a relatively small monthly charge. Are you arguing that companies don't do this unless they're Google and Netflix?
    A coworker of mine called up a MAJOR CDN the other day to ask them about peering and they said that rather than peer with them, the customer experience would be better if they shipped us a content caching engine and we installed it in our datacenter. Other than the time to fill out paperwork, rack the equipment, and provide power and cooling, it's costing us nothing. We'll be peering with the Internet Exchange that they're a member of as well.

  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by FunkBuddha View Post
    Here's one Internet Exchange. All of these companies peer with one another through the exchange. There are hundreds of locations like this around the world where content providers and ISPs peer with one another, usually for a cross connect fee and a relatively small monthly charge. Are you arguing that companies don't do this unless they're Google and Netflix?
    Are you telling me that if ISPS bought more bandwidth from backbone providers there would be more or less backbone congestion? What do you think happens with that pipe while your video is buffered, you think no one else could use that route for just a second?

    Are you telling me last mile providers aren't making the internet smaller because they can make a profit by selling internet service that only connects to netflix fast??

    I am all for peering but to me its fake internet, its something ISPS do to make their networks appear to be faster then they really are. It reminds me of the speed boosting that ISPS used to do that would make websites load instantly but downloads would take forever. Even that whole article was just an ad for google fiber internet, why do you think it costs them nothing? Do you think that Google search is "free"? Do you think that google mail is free? Why do they always have ads for very specific things in my email?

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Why Google Fiber, unlike Comcast, gives Netflix free peering

    YouTube's owner would probably like free peering from Comcast, too. Google owns YouTube, the second biggest online video service in North America in terms of traffic, and has direct interconnection dealswith AT&T, Comcast, Verizon, and other ISPs. Google hasn't said whether it's paying those companies for the direct interconnections, but it's a good bet that it is making payments.
    Wow! So because you think it benefits both parties, it should be mandatory. Dude, WTF?

  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Wow! So because you think it benefits both parties, it should be mandatory. Dude, WTF?
    Are the two of you smoking crack together? You're both blabbering on about $#@! you know nothing about.



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  25. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by FunkBuddha View Post
    Are the two of you smoking crack together? You're both blabbering on about $#@! you know nothing about.
    Okay mister straw man, it seems like your the one that doesn't know how the internet works. Wanna know why the Obamacare website $#@! the bed when it launched? Internet providers were busy monetizing last mile networks that connect really fast to Netflix because that's what people wanna buy. People change internet providers if their Netflix buffers. Last mile providers have no incentive to monetize real internet bandwidth.

  26. #82
    Huh? My God you're an moron and I've spent my allotted time for arguing with morons for the next few days.

    See if you can find an internet routing for imbeciles class somewhere and sign up. You qualify.

  27. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by FunkBuddha View Post
    Huh? My God you're an moron and I've spent my allotted time for arguing with morons for the next few days.

    See if you can find an internet routing for imbeciles class somewhere and sign up. You qualify.
    Your only argument was a false talking point because you believe the net neutrality propaganda that was pushed by the people that want to control all of the information. If Netflix wants to save on bandwidth so badly and wants their customers to fully utilize the last mile networks they are paying for why are they not using some sort of swarming software?

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Your only argument was a false talking point because you believe the net neutrality propaganda that was pushed by the people that want to control all of the information. If Netflix wants to save on bandwidth so badly and wants their customers to fully utilize the last mile networks they are paying for why are they not using some sort of swarming software?

  29. #85

  30. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by FunkBuddha View Post

    I'm not arguing that the government should step in, just that Comcast was trying to extort Netflix in that deal.
    Netflix approached Comcast.

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by FunkBuddha View Post
    Are the two of you smoking crack together? You're both blabbering on about $#@! you know nothing about.
    LOL - you're the one talking about how the government should make sure playing fields are level while you're on a libertarian forum, so....

  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Netflix approached Comcast.
    True story. There are numerous carrier hotels all over the country where they interconnect for several 1000’s of Gbps in data circuits



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  34. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    LOL - you're the one talking about how the government should make sure playing fields are level while you're on a libertarian forum, so....
    I've argued that local utilities or cooperatives should build open access networks to increase competition at the last mile and stated that Comcast is a $#@!ty company. Is that what you're alluding to? I've never supported Net Neutrality.

  35. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Do you ever stop to think for yourself?
    I think you're a moron, does that count?

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