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Thread: US judge blocks funds for Trump border wall plan

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    Do AR-15s with 30 round magazines rate up there with "bazookas?"
    It does get a bad rep because it is capable of killing lots of people and tends to be used a lot in the well publicized mass shootings but mass shootings themselves are over-hyped and are actually rare events. Crazy people will find some way to kill if that is their goal. I don't see the need for one unless you are in the military but I also don't think they should be banned.



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  3. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    With Walls, "Constitution Free Zones", DHS, ICE, DOMESTIC TSA... your entire statement is NULL.

    It did "sound" nice, though.
    It isn't null, it's sad that you think it is.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Wrong again, your limited experience is limited.

    The foreigners by and large want ever larger government and even those that complain about how it affects them would create it if it didn't exist.
    Citizens like big government- even Republicans vote for it. Can't blame that one on liberals or foreigners.

  5. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It isn't null, it's sad that you think it is.
    Come on Swordy, you are losing your edge today; you are WRONG yet again; I do not "think". I "know".

    And yes, your prior statement is in fact NULL.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  6. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Citizens like big government- even Republicans vote for it. Can't blame that one on liberals or foreigners.
    I can blame them for providing the extra weight on the pro-government side of the scales.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Come on Swordy, you are losing your edge today; you are WRONG yet again; I do not "think". I "know".

    And yes, your prior statement is in fact NULL.
    LOL

    You are losing your edge.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  9. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I can blame them for providing the extra weight on the pro-government side of the scales.
    But you can NOT blame me ;-)
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  10. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    But you can NOT blame me ;-)
    I can blame you for wanting to let more of them in.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I can blame you for wanting to let more of them in.
    Yes, you can. In fact, you more than likely do;

    It is too bad. If we had MORE of "those people" helping in the delegate project, perhaps RP would have had more of a presence during convention. As it stood, too many neocons pushed for romney.

    Now I can see why you hate "those" people.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  12. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    "are using the phrase totally differently than Ron Paul." Some of us have longer memories than you do apparently...

    By Ron Paul

    With the November elections looming, politics is taking priority over sensible policy. It appears congressional leaders have no intention of addressing the issue of illegal immigration this year, preferring not to tackle such a thorny problem for fear of angering voters one way or another.

    But this is a mistake. The American people want something done about illegal immigration now — not next year. All sides in the immigration debate agree that the current, “Don’t ask, don’t tell,” policy cannot continue. That’s why I am joining several of my colleagues in demanding that the Senate vote this month on a border security bill already passed by the House earlier this year. I truly believe border security is the most important issue for millions of Americans.

    Both the Bush administration and congressional leadership have promised to spend the next two months addressing national security issues. But real national security cannot be achieved unless and until our borders are physically secured. It’s as simple as that. All the talk about fighting terror and making America safer is meaningless without border security. It makes no sense to seek terrorists abroad if our own front door is left unlocked.

    Although the border security bill already passed by the House is a good start, Congress needs to pass broader legislation this year based on the following simple points:

    First, physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must have control over who enters our country before we even begin to consider complicated immigration reform proposals.

    Second, enforce visa rules on those already in the country. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport individuals who overstay their visas or otherwise violate U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that some of the 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.

    Third, reject amnesty. If we reward lawbreakers who enter this country illegally with citizenship, then any new laws Congress might pass likewise can be ignored. Reform must begin with a new mentality that immigration laws will be enforced.

    Fourth, end welfare-state incentives for illegals. Americans are quick to welcome immigrants who simply wish to work hard and make a better life for themselves. But taxpayers cannot continue to pay when illegal immigrants use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.

    Fifth, end birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the perverse incentive to sneak into this country remains strong. Citizenship involves more than the mere location of one’s birth.

    Finally, completely overhaul the legal immigration process. The current system is incoherent and unfair. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.

    If we keep these points in mind, immigration reform does not need to be complicated or expensive. It does, however, need to happen this year.

    Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2006/09/...ration-reform/

    Voters Want Action On Immigration

    Rep. Ron Paul wants his colleagues to think about America—not reelection on issue of illegal immigration

    With the November elections looming, politics is taking priority over sensible policy. It appears congressional leaders have no intention of addressing the issue of illegal immigration this year, preferring not to tackle such a thorny problem for fear of angering voters one way or another.

    But this is a mistake. The American people want something done about illegal immigration now—not next year. All sides in the immigration debate agree that the current, “Don’t ask, don’t tell,” policy cannot continue.

    That’s why I am joining several of my colleagues in demanding that the Senate vote this month on a border security bill already passed by the House earlier this year. I truly believe border security is the most important issue for millions of Americans.

    Both the Bush administration and congressional leadership have promised to spend the next two months addressing national security issues. But real national security cannot be achieved unless and until our borders are physically secured. It’s as simple as that. All the talk about fighting terror and making America safer is meaningless without border security. It makes no sense to seek terrorists abroad if our own front door is left unlocked.

    Although the border security bill already passed by the House is a good start, Congress needs to pass broader legislation this year based on the following simple points:

    First, physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must have control over who enters our country before we even begin to consider complicated immigration reform proposals.

    Second, enforce visa rules on those already in the country. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport individuals who overstay their visas or otherwise violate U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that some of the 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.

    Third, reject amnesty. If we reward lawbreakers who enter this country illegally with citizenship, then any new laws Congress might pass likewise can be ignored. Reform must begin with a new mentality that immigration laws will be enforced.

    Fourth, end welfare-state incentives for illegals. Americans are quick to welcome immigrants who simply wish to work hard and make a better life for themselves. But taxpayers cannot continue to pay when illegal immigrants use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.

    Fifth, end birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the perverse incentive to sneak into this country remains strong. True citizenship involves more than the mere location of one’s birth.

    Finally, completely overhaul the legal immigration process. The current system is incoherent and unfair. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods. If we keep these points in mind, immigration reform does not need to be complicated or expensive. It does, however, need to happen this year.

    (Issue #38 & 39, September 18 & 25, 2006)

    Please make a donation to American Free Press

    http://www.americanfreepress.net/htm...migration.html

    The 11-Point Plan That Could Save America

    Dr. Ron Paul’s 11-Point Plan That Could Save America

    Have Americans read Dr. Ron Paul’s written plan for the country? Are Americans ready to upset the apple cart in a controlled and methodical way for the betterment of the greater good? The main source I am referencing here is Dr. Ron Paul’s website, so that we can debate his priorities and proposed approaches. I have paraphrased items from his site; however, I encourage the reader to thoroughly review all the links.

    Here is Dr. Ron Paul’s 11-point plan:

    11. Energy Independence: Eliminate the federal gas tax of $0.18 per gallon and eliminate the EPA, allowing prosecution of polluters to answer to citizens, not Washington, and allowing coal, oil, nuclear and other forms of energy to be safely explored.

    10. Education: Dr. Paul would like to see the U.S. Department of Education return its powers to the states and parents. He proposes and intends to give parents a $5,000 tax credit per child for kids K-12 to help with all the costs of education. He is supportive of home-schooling and will veto legislation that interferes with parents choosing to home-school their children.

    9. Workers’ Rights: Dr. Ron Paul is against forcing workers to join unions and pay dues if they do not want to, citing the $8 billion that union leaders bring in annually that is often given to political candidates. He does not want workers forced to belong to unions or to be under union control against their will.

    8. Protect Gun Rights: Protecting the right of Americans to keep and bear arms. Here is an example of a town that required each head of household to own a gun. This policy resulted in decreased crime.

    7. Heath Care: Dr. Ron Paul will repeal Obamacare, allow for tax credits and deductions for all medical expenses and not allow money that belongs in Medicare or Medicaid to be misused for other purposes. He will protect the privacy of American citizens’ medical records from the federal government, remove barriers for all citizens to have HSAs and keep the FDA out of vitamins and alternative treatments. Also, he wants to provide payroll deductions for terminal illnesses and caregivers.

    6. Pro-Life Issue: Here is the one fact all Americans need to know. Dr. Paul is the only Republican candidate who has said, “So while Roe v. Wade is invalid, a federal law banning abortion across all 50 states would be equally invalid.” Abortion is one of the most divisive issues and may always be a divisive issue as long as Americans have freedom of religion and the right to be, think and feel differently. Dr. Ron Paul may be personally pro-life; however, his voting record indicates that, even if a bill attempting to make abortion illegal federally in the U.S. were passed by the House and Senate, Dr. Paul would veto the bill as unconstitutional. Which other Republican candidate has a track record to indicate that? Would Dr. Paul look to put pro-life judges on the Supreme Court bench? Probably as much as past Republican presidents. The current Democratic President has recently placed two women on the Supreme Court, and new Justices are appointed only when a Justice dies or retires. Six Republican Presidential candidates have already signed the Susan B. Anthony List 2012. Dr. Ron Paul is the safest Republican candidate because he would veto anti-abortion bills at the federal level and support states that chose to protect women’s reproductive rights. His other strong Constitution-based reforms outweigh the small risk that Roe v. Wade would be overturned during his term, returning the power to the states, who can then protect women’s reproductive rights, as Vermont has. Would he truly respect the states’ rights on this, considering his strong personal stand? Many progressive states have anti-abortion laws on their books that are not enforceable due to Roe v. Wade. So far, Dr. Paul has written bills to make it possible for states to make abortion illegal in the Sanctity of Life bill. He wrote the We the People Act, which, if passed, would render Roe v. Wade invalid and return powers to the states. He signed the Susan B. Anthony list, which describes federally defunding all abortions and Planned Parenthood. If Dr. Paul can fix the economic mess, is the slight chance that Roe v. Wade would be rendered invalid something Americans are willing risk for the betterment of the country in many other important areas? We will not ever go back to a time before birth control, morning-after pills, RU 486, the Internet and other advancements. Certain states, even with Roe v. Wade, are extremely restrictive.

    5. Immigration: In Dr. Paul’s own words:

    Immigration reform should start with improving our border protection, yet it was reported last week that the federal government has approved the recruitment of 120 of our best trained Border Patrol agents to go to Iraq to train Iraqis how to better defend their borders! This comes at a time when the National Guard troops participating in Operation Jump Start are being removed from border protection duties in Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas and preparing to deploy to Iraq and Afghanistan! It is an outrage and it will result in our borders being more vulnerable to illegal entry, including by terrorists.

    Also, we need to take serious steps to prevent terrorists from gaining easy access to targets on our soil. Quite alarmingly, even with the knowledge that the 19 terrorist hijackers entered our country legally, and that 15 of them were from Saudi Arabia , student visas from terrorist sponsoring countries are still far too easily obtained. In a baffling move President Bush struck a deal with Saudi King Abdullah in 2005 to allow 21,000 more Saudi young men into the US on student Visas. Of course, not all students from terror sponsoring countries are terrorists, but I place a higher premium on the security of the American people than the convenience of citizens of hostile countries. We should not be making the goals of would-be terrorists easier to accomplish, but rather should be vigilant about defending against enemies at every turn. They should not be slipping through our doors so easily, using our immigration laws against us, and that is why I proposed the Terror Immigration Elimination Act (HR 3217) to toughen standards for VISAS from countries on the State Department’s list of terrorist sponsoring countries in addition to Saudi Arabia . Just as you decide who to invite to a dinner party in your home, we should be in charge of who we allow in this country, without apology.

    Also:

    Both the Bush administration and congressional leadership have promised to spend the next two months addressing national security issues. But real national security cannot be achieved unless and until our borders are physically secured. It’s as simple as that. All the talk about fighting terror and making America safer is meaningless without border security. It makes no sense to seek terrorists abroad if our own front door is left unlocked.

    In short, Dr. Paul’s plan is to secure the border, end amnesty, abolish welfare to illegal immigrants, end birthright citizenship and protect lawful immigrants.

    4. National Defense: Dr. Paul’s approach is simple. He believes in a strong national defense and is against militarism — in other words, protect the U.S. but do not police the world and require congressional approval before declaring war. The last time the U.S. formally declared war was World War II in 1941. Dr. Paul would bring the troops home to protect America. Dr. Paul said he would get the troops home as soon as the ships would get here. He is the largest recipient of donations from soldiers in the U.S. military, getting 71 percent of all military donations.

    3. Taxes: Dr. Paul would support an amendment to the U.S. Constitution that abolishes income and death taxes. Ideally, he’d like to close the IRS. He would seek to repeal capital gains taxes and reduce then abolish taxes on Social Security. Before a flat or fair tax would be implemented, Dr. Paul would ensure that the 16th Amendment, which made income taxation legal, would be repealed so we don’t end up with both.

    2. End the Fed: The Fed was created in a time of turmoil and seems similar to the Patriot Act in that it was done from a position of hysteria, not logical and rational decision-making. The U.S. Constitution is considered such a well thought-through document as it was drafted in a time of peace rather than as a reaction to a panic. Documents and policies that are reviewed and seen in the light of day by calm, rational people tend to be better for the long-term wellness of the people than policies passed quickly in an emotional, reactive and hurried manner. Dr. Paul equates the Fed with deeply-in-debt parents sending their teenagers out with credit cards and blank checks. Dr. Paul’s ultimate goal would be to see the Fed end, yet he would not act rashly. What his focus would be is a full and complete audit of the Fed, as Congress is currently unable to audit the Fed. Dr. Paul would commit to passing legislation that requires transparency and accountability from the Fed. At this time, the Fed can keep secret to whom they are lending trillions of taxpayers’ dollars. If the Fed is handling American money responsibly, for what reason would they refuse to open their books? We American citizens are all subject to audits from the IRS, but the U.S. central bank is not? Please take three minutes to watch this amazing video of Bernie Sanders asking Ben Bernanke, where $2.2 trillion of taxpayer money is. Bernanke will not answer the question and will not disclose where $2.2 trillion went, and he doesn’t have to.

    1. Economy: Dr. Paul’s plan is to audit the Fed, veto any unbalanced budget and refuse to raise the debt ceiling. He is also committed to getting rid of self-dealing and corruption in D.C. Additionally, he will eliminate income taxes, capital gains taxes and death taxes. It would be a breath of fresh air to have the Fed audited and wasteful government spending eliminated, and to actually be able to keep more of the money we make. America’s debt did not come out of nowhere. In 2008, the U.S. had spent $3 trillion on the war in Iraq. The current costs are at $3.2 to $4 trillion. How much did we vote to increase the debt ceiling? We raised the $14.3-trillion debt ceiling by $2.4 trillion, to $16.7 trillion on Aug. 2, 2011. Here is a great 10-minute video with Dr. Paul clearly stating how, if elected president in 2012, he would balance the budget in one year.

    In this discussion, I request that emotional reactions and sarcasm be set aside. The goal is an accurate, clear and truthful dialogue. We are blessed with a group of knowledgeable Americans making comments here. What I want to suggest is that we discuss what is best for the greater good for our country, not just for ourselves.

    Any presidential choice we make involves a risk. Is he lying and manipulating to win the election, or is he honest? Will she serve American citizens ethically and honorably as president? The U.S. Constitution was created to unite the states in our country in certain crucial areas, like national defense, while allowing states their autonomy and uniqueness. In the spirit of Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, good character is the most essential quality to bring to our government. Dr. Paul combines solid character and backbone with seasoned wisdom and experience. He has not compromised the values and principles that America holds dear.

    If you are not going to register as a Republican and vote for Dr. Ron Paul in the primary, who do you think is better, and for what reasons? Don’t state what you dislike about Dr. Paul’s plan. It is easy to shoot someone’s ideas down.

    http://pecangroup.org/tag/ron-paul-2012/page/2/

    Voted YES on building a fence along the Mexican border. (Sep 2006)
    Voted YES on preventing tipping off Mexicans about Minuteman Project. (Jun 2006)
    Voted YES on reporting illegal aliens who receive hospital treatment. (May 2004)
    Voted YES on extending Immigrant Residency rules. (May 2001)
    Voted YES on more immigrant visas for skilled workers. (Sep 1998)
    Sponsored bill banning student visas from terrorist nations. (Jan 2003)
    Rated 100% by FAIR, indicating a voting record restricting immigration. (Dec 2003)
    Rated 83% by USBC, indicating a sealed-border stance. (Dec 2006)
    Government services in English only. (Mar 2008)
    Rated C by the ALI, indicating an acceptably anti-amnesty stance. (Nov 2010)
    Declare English as the official language of the US. (Feb 2007)

    http://www.ontheissues.org/Ron_Paul.htm#Immigration
    Notice that nothing RP said in those quotes contradicts what I said. He nowhere says or implies that any people who come here in peace to work should not be allowed to or that the number of such people allowed should be at all limited. The only kinds of people I see him indicate should not be allowed to enter are terrorists, such as those who hijacked the planes on 9/11.

    Granted, this is campaign rhetoric, and as such is designed to appeal to the views of Republican primary voters, so I can see how immigration restrictionists would naturally see their own views reflected in these quotes. But if you look carefully not only at what he says but also at what he refrains from saying, and especially when you do that alongside the many other things he has said on the subject, not just in the context of campaign rhetoric but also in more full explanations of his position, you will see that nothing he says here contradicts those other more pro-immigration statements.

    I will also concede that even at that, yes, this position, at least if taken entirely literally, is a more restrictionist position than what he took in 2012. But I doubt that it should be taken that literally. For example, when he refers to enforcing laws, based on other things he was already saying even during that same campaign, I think we're forced to conclude that he didsn't mean absolutely every one of the existing laws. There were laws, including immigration laws, in existence then the enforcement of which he overtly opposed, such as the entire existence of DHS (of which ICE is a part), and the forcing of employers to participate in enforcement of immigration laws.
    Last edited by Superfluous Man; 05-27-2019 at 04:18 PM.

  13. #101
    Voted YES on building a fence along the Mexican border.
    He later said that the fence was not the reason he voted for that bill- he was opposed to that part. Instead he favored the anti-amnesty provision it had.

    No amnesty, but border fence isn’t so important

    Q: You voted to support that 700-mile fence along the border with Mexico. Is there a need for a similar fence along the border with Canada?

    PAUL: No. The fence was my weakest reason for voting for that, but enforcing the law was important, and border security is important. And we’ve talked about amnesty, which I’m positively opposed to. If you subsidize something, you get more of it. We subsidize illegal immigration, we reward it by easy citizenship, either birthright or amnesty.

    Source: 2007 GOP debate at Saint Anselm College , Jun 3, 2007
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 05-27-2019 at 04:28 PM.

  14. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    It does get a bad rep because it is capable of killing lots of people and tends to be used a lot in the well publicized mass shootings but mass shootings themselves are over-hyped and are actually rare events. Crazy people will find some way to kill if that is their goal. I don't see the need for one unless you are in the military but I also don't think they should be banned.
    I don't think that it's even really true AR-15s have been used in a lot of the well publicized mass shootings.

  15. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Yes, you can. In fact, you more than likely do;

    It is too bad. If we had MORE of "those people" helping in the delegate project, perhaps RP would have had more of a presence during convention. As it stood, too many neocons pushed for romney.

    Now I can see why you hate "those" people.
    "Those people" don't vote for libertarians, they vote for communist Demoncrats.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    "Those people" don't vote for libertarians, they vote for communist Demoncrats.
    All walks of life, SwordShill, "Americans" and YOU included. But do not make blanket statements to me. They do not show your intelligence, and only prove that you are the STATIST that you are. You sound just like Dirty Uncle Sam.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)



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  18. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    "Those people" don't vote for libertarians, they vote for communist Demoncrats.
    According to the Internet Forum Guidebook anyways.

  19. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    All walks of life, SwordShill, "Americans" and YOU included. But do not make blanket statements to me. They do not show your intelligence, and only prove that you are the STATIST that you are. You sound just like Dirty Uncle Sam.
    Voting is a group activity, therefore groups are what matter, foreigners as a group vote for communism, letting unlimited numbers in will result in communism and the extinction of liberty.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  20. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Notice that nothing RP said in those quotes contradicts what I said. He nowhere says or implies that any people who come here in peace to work should not be allowed to or that the number of such people allowed should be at all limited. The only kinds of people I see him indicate should not be allowed to enter are terrorists, such as those who hijacked the planes on 9/11.

    Granted, this is campaign rhetoric, and as such is designed to appeal to the views of Republican primary voters, so I can see how immigration restrictionists would naturally see their own views reflected in these quotes. But if you look carefully not only at what he says but also at what he refrains from saying, and especially when you do that alongside the many other things he has said on the subject, not just in the context of campaign rhetoric but also in more full explanations of his position, you will see that nothing he says here contradicts those other more pro-immigration statements.

    I will also concede that even at that, yes, this position, at least if taken entirely literally, is a more restrictionist position than what he took in 2012. But I doubt that it should be taken that literally. For example, when he refers to enforcing laws, based on other things he was already saying even during that same campaign, I think we're forced to conclude that he didsn't mean absolutely every one of the existing laws. There were laws, including immigration laws, in existence then the enforcement of which he overtly opposed, such as the entire existence of DHS (of which ICE is a part), and the forcing of employers to participate in enforcement of immigration laws.
    "Notice that nothing RP said in those quotes contradicts what I said." Bull$#@!... Even when in your face you still grasp at straws.
    “The ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world it leaves to its children.” ~ Dietrich Bonhoeffer

  21. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Voting is a group activity, therefore groups are what matter, foreigners as a group vote for communism, letting unlimited numbers in will result in communism and the extinction of liberty.
    More fake cliches from the Internet Forum Guidebook (where propaganda matters more than facts).

    Do they all vote as a group? Are they all commies (which is sooo 1950's)

    https://www.ppic.org/publication/rac...in-california/

    Within racial/ethnic groups, likely voters are ideologically divided.

    Thirty-six percent of Latino likely voters identify themselves as politically liberal, while 31% identify as middle-of-the-road and 33% identify as conservative. White likely voters are as likely to identify as liberal (37%) as they are to identify as conservative (37%); 26% call themselves middle-of-the-road. African American and Asian American likely voters are much more likely to be ideologically liberal (43% and 48%, respectively) than conservative (24% and 26%).

  22. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    "Notice that nothing RP said in those quotes contradicts what I said." Bull$#@!... Even when in your face you still grasp at straws.
    Go back and reread what I said. I carefully worded it when I wrote it to reflect accurately what RP has clearly said on many occasions about his own position, and so as not to contradict anything he had said in statements such as those you quoted.

    This is a problem we have repeatedly had here with immigration restrictionists. They hear phrases like "secure borders" and in their minds it can only mean the kind of immigration restriction they support, so all RP has to do is use that phrase, or say he's not for open borders, and voila, he agrees with them, even to the point of taking positions he's explicitly repudiated.

  23. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    More fake cliches from the Internet Forum Guidebook (where propaganda matters more than facts).

    Do they all vote as a group? Are they all commies (which is sooo 1950's)

    https://www.ppic.org/publication/rac...in-california/
    You are confusing native hispanics with the invaders:

    Illegal Migrants Come Here as Ready-made Democrats — Here’s Why

    And the commies are making a come back. (they never really went away)
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #111
    Its apparent its not just Congress that is a part of the Deep State and the Treason they commit against this once great nation...
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  25. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Go back and reread what I said. I carefully worded it when I wrote it to reflect accurately what RP has clearly said on many occasions about his own position, and so as not to contradict anything he had said in statements such as those you quoted.

    This is a problem we have repeatedly had here with immigration restrictionists. They hear phrases like "secure borders" and in their minds it can only mean the kind of immigration restriction they support, so all RP has to do is use that phrase, or say he's not for open borders, and voila, he agrees with them, even to the point of taking positions he's explicitly repudiated.
    And you just ignore all of the things he specifically campaigned on doing.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  27. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Go back and reread what I said. I carefully worded it when I wrote it to reflect accurately what RP has clearly said on many occasions about his own position, and so as not to contradict anything he had said in statements such as those you quoted.

    This is a problem we have repeatedly had here with immigration restrictionists. They hear phrases like "secure borders" and in their minds it can only mean the kind of immigration restriction they support, so all RP has to do is use that phrase, or say he's not for open borders, and voila, he agrees with them, even to the point of taking positions he's explicitly repudiated.
    Bull$#@!, This is Ron Paul and he meant what he said when he said it. You have now cherry picked just one "fenced in" line from him over the years and built this huge bubble "principled" narrative for yourself to further your own agenda. It's right there for everyone to read, he even voted in support of physical border security. How he "feels" and how he actually acted in best interests are two totally different critters.
    “The ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world it leaves to its children.” ~ Dietrich Bonhoeffer

  28. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Bull$#@!, This is Ron Paul and he meant what he said when he said it. You have now cherry picked just one "fenced in" line from him over the years and built this huge bubble "principled" narrative for yourself to further your own agenda. It's right there for everyone to read, he even voted in support of physical border security. How he "feels" and how he actually acted in best interests are two totally different critters.
    He later said he opposed that part of the bill. He did vote for the anti-amnesty provisions. (see post #101 above)

  29. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    He later said he opposed that part of the bill. He did vote for the anti-amnesty provisions. (see post #101 above)
    Bull$#@!... You better go read what I shared again...

    Voted YES on building a fence along the Mexican border. (Sep 2006)
    “The ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world it leaves to its children.” ~ Dietrich Bonhoeffer

  30. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Bull$#@!, This is Ron Paul and he meant what he said when he said it.
    I agree. But he didn't mean any more than he said. Nor did he mean anything he said to be taken out of context and applied to things other than what he was talking about when he said them.

  31. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Bull$#@!... You better go read what I shared again...

    Voted YES on building a fence along the Mexican border. (Sep 2006)
    Sorry, but what Zippy said is 100% true. Ron Paul did explain that vote and say that the fence wasn't the reason he voted yes.

  32. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Bull$#@!... You better go read what I shared again...

    Voted YES on building a fence along the Mexican border. (Sep 2006)
    Yes, he voted for that bill, but not because of the wall clause.

    http://www.triviumpursuit.com/blog/2...e-and-amnesty/

    Here’s part of an interview Ron Paul did with John Stossell:

    Question for Ron Paul: You want a 700-mile fence between our border and Mexico?

    Ron Paul: Not really. There was an immigration bill that had a fence (requirement) in it, but it was to attack amnesty. I don’t like amnesty. So I voted for that bill, but I didn’t like the fence. I don’t think the fence can solve a problem. I find it rather offensive.

    Question: What should we do?

    RP: Get rid of the subsidies. (If) you subsidize illegal immigration, you get more of it.

    Question: Get rid of welfare?

    RP: All the welfare benefits.

    Question: Including government-paid health care?

    RP: Absolutely.
    Another link: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...migration.html

    Video:

    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 05-27-2019 at 05:20 PM.

  33. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Sorry, but what Zippy said is 100% true. Ron Paul did explain that vote and say that the fence wasn't the reason he voted yes.
    And the rest of the anti-illegal immigration votes? Don't count either? Sorry but this is the Constitutional Ron Paul I first started to support before he was hijacked by the communists and anarchists.

    Voted YES on building a fence along the Mexican border. (Sep 2006)
    Voted YES on preventing tipping off Mexicans about Minuteman Project. (Jun 2006)
    Voted YES on reporting illegal aliens who receive hospital treatment. (May 2004)
    Voted YES on extending Immigrant Residency rules. (May 2001)
    Voted YES on more immigrant visas for skilled workers. (Sep 1998)
    Sponsored bill banning student visas from terrorist nations. (Jan 2003)
    Rated 100% by FAIR, indicating a voting record restricting immigration. (Dec 2003)
    Rated 83% by USBC, indicating a sealed-border stance. (Dec 2006)
    Government services in English only. (Mar 2008)
    Rated C by the ALI, indicating an acceptably anti-amnesty stance. (Nov 2010)
    Declare English as the official language of the US. (Feb 2007)

    http://www.ontheissues.org/Ron_Paul.htm#Immigration
    “The ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world it leaves to its children.” ~ Dietrich Bonhoeffer

  34. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    And the rest of the anti-illegal immigration votes? Don't count either? Sorry but this is the Ron Pail I first started to support before he was hijacked by the communists and anarchists.

    Voted YES on building a fence along the Mexican border. (Sep 2006)
    Voted YES on preventing tipping off Mexicans about Minuteman Project. (Jun 2006)
    Voted YES on reporting illegal aliens who receive hospital treatment. (May 2004)
    Voted YES on extending Immigrant Residency rules. (May 2001)
    Voted YES on more immigrant visas for skilled workers. (Sep 1998)
    Sponsored bill banning student visas from terrorist nations. (Jan 2003)
    Rated 100% by FAIR, indicating a voting record restricting immigration. (Dec 2003)
    Rated 83% by USBC, indicating a sealed-border stance. (Dec 2006)
    Government services in English only. (Mar 2008)
    Rated C by the ALI, indicating an acceptably anti-amnesty stance. (Nov 2010)
    Declare English as the official language of the US. (Feb 2007)

    http://www.ontheissues.org/Ron_Paul.htm#Immigration
    Those votes seem entirely consistent with everything I've said about his position. The fence vote was the point of contention that you and Zippy and I were talking about though.



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