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Thread: Homeschoolers Revolt Against Republican School Choice Bill

  1. #1

    Exclamation Homeschoolers Revolt Against Republican School Choice Bill

    Homeschoolers Revolt Against Republican School Choice Bill

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...l-choice-bill/

    by Dr. Susan Berry17 Feb 20171165

    Homeschooling families throughout the nation are voicing opposition to a Republican-sponsored school choice bill that they say will ultimately result in regulation of homeschooling in the United States.

    Many parents who homeschool their children, as well as their numerous local and national homeschooling organizations, are protesting the bill, introduced by Iowa Rep. Steve King (R), and calling upon the members of Congress who are its sponsors to “leave homeschooling families alone.”

    School vouchers created by H.R. 610, the Choices in Education Act of 2017, “would be a slippery slope toward more federal involvement and control in homeschooling,” asserts William Estrada, director of federal relations for the Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA).

    King’s bill would first repeal the Elementary and Secondary Education Act (ESEA) of 1965. While many homeschoolers agree with the repeal of ESEA, the bill next would send all federal education funds to the states in the form of grants, which states would then distribute as vouchers to public, private, and homeschooled students.

    Estrada asserts the bill would essentially create a “federal right to homeschool.” Section 104 of the bill states, “To be eligible to receive a grant…the State will…make it lawful for parents of an eligible child to elect…to enroll their child in any public or private elementary or secondary school in the State; or to home-school their child.”

    Estrada explains:

    While this sounds good, HSLDA has fought — successfully—for decades to make sure that there is no “federal right to homeschool” because what could be created by a favorable Congress could be regulated by a future, hostile Congress. It is far better (and far more constitutionally sound) for education decisions—and homeschool freedom—to be protected at the state level. We ask our friends at the federal level to simply leave homeschooling families alone.

    Section 105 of the bill further states:

    The State shall distribute funds…based on the number of eligible children enrolled in the public schools operated by each local educational agency and the number of eligible children within each local educational agency’s geographical area whose parents elect to send their child to a private school or to home-school their child.



    On an annual basis, on a date to be determined by the Secretary, each local education agency shall inform the State educational agency of…the number of eligible children within each local educational agency’s geographical area whose parents elect…to home-school their child.

    Estrada says the bill allows states to “track” homeschooling students.

    “There is only one way that states and school districts can do this: by requiring homeschooling families to register with them, and be tracked by the school district,” he asserts. “This will be especially problematic in states that do not require homeschooling families to file a notice of intent with the local school district. H.R. 610 will require homeschooling families in all 50 states to register with the local school district. This would be just the first cost of ‘free government money.’”

    In a statement on his website about the bill, King says:

    In order to receive a grant or voucher under my legislation, the State must ensure that the funds be distributed appropriately on a per pupil basis. Additionally and most importantly, this bill makes it lawful for the parent to make the ultimate decision between public, private or home-school education for their children.

    However, Estrada asserts it is not the job of the federal government to grant parents the freedom to decide their children’s education.

    “The Constitution protects the right of parents to direct the education and upbringing of their children, as the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled in its seminal cases of Meyer, Pierce, and Yoder,” he says. “Federal legislation to ‘protect’ homeschooling is unnecessary.”

    In an interview with Breitbart News, King says he “regrets” most of all that a face-to-face meeting has not taken place with homeschooling parents prior to the uproar over his bill.

    The Iowa congressman says that while his legislative director has been on the phone with homeschoolers opposed to his legislation, a meeting he had slated with them may have been canceled due to his schedule. He said he and his staff have asked homeschoolers to hold back on their open criticism of the bill until he could meet with them.

    “And now we’ve got a national thing going on here that didn’t need to happen,” King says. “I’ve been trying for the last several weeks to have a meeting with them, and I’ve said to my staff I want to look them in the eye and I want to talk this through reasonably.”

    “I’ve tried to talk openly and do business and we haven’t been able to have that meeting, and I regret that,” King emphasizes, still adding that he is surprised “there’s a nationwide effort to oppose the broadest, most sweeping bill that supports parents being in charge of their children’s education that this Congress has ever seen.”

    He explains his view of the legislation:

    The objective is this, that we’re watching as a nationwide curriculum is being established, and that nationwide curriculum, coupled with the money that goes to that, pushes all the public schools into that system, and eventually drags the parochial schools into that curriculum. I’m watching as our Judeo-Christian values are being undermined, and I’m watching as western civilization is being deconstructed systemically throughout our public school system and especially in our universities – which we don’t touch with this, by the way. The object is to put parents back in control of their children’s education and curriculum and put it in a position where the public schools compete with the parochial schools. To have exempted homeschools from this, would have made the bill the target of homeschoolers, too.

    King thinks homeschoolers should participate in his bill for the sake of the new system – the intention of which, he says, is to save the culture of the country that is being destroyed by the public school monopoly.

    He continues:

    They’re missing the objective of this bill, which is to put the public schools in a position where they have to compete with the parochial schools and respect and honor the homeschools, and let the states regulate those things at that level, not the federal government. States that are unwilling to pass a voucher program have to give up their federal money. So isn’t that a much bigger goal for us – to put the public schools into competition with parochial schools than it is to preserve the status quo of homeschool?

    Homeschoolers, King argues, want “to be protected from ever being threatened by a state approving federal funds going through a voucher system that might tempt some of their people to accept some money that comes from the state and federal government.”

    “To do that, they would not want to have parochial schools have an opportunity to compete with the public schools, which takes down our ability to allow masses of parents to decide curriculums, moral values, etc.,” he continues. “Many parents can’t afford to send their children to a parochial school, nor can they actually homeschool their children.”

    Wisconsin homeschooling parent Tina Hollenbeck, however, writes at her blog about the level of regulation King’s bill is inviting in for homeschoolers. The measure, she says, provides for states to be “mandated to send information about all children – yes, every child using any form of education – to the federal Secretary of Education in order to get the voucher money H.R. 610 claims the states are due.”

    Hollenbeck continues:

    Of course, the states will want to report on all the children anyway – more children equals more money for state coffers even if some of us don’t take it – but even if a state wanted to behave ethically in order to protect the privacy of home educators who refuse voucher money, they are not allowed to do so under this bill. Thus, any state that currently requires any sort of notification from homeschoolers – information that previously remained at the local or state level – will now violate our privacy by giving information about us to the federal Secretary of Education – without regard to either the 4th or 10th Amendments to the Constitution. And we can expect swift (freedom-stealing) action from states whose homeschool laws currently require no registration/notification. They will assert that they “must” know who the homeschooled children are according to H.R.610…

    Attorney Deborah Stevenson of the Connecticut-based National Home Education Legal Defense, says homeschoolers should be left completely out of the bill.

    “Regulation, if only through accountability due to acceptance of a benefit, by the federal government is wholly unconstitutional and contrary to the fundamental right of parents to the upbringing and education of their children,” she observes to Breitbart News. ” As a congressman who took an oath to uphold the constitution King should know that and make sure this, and all bills he proposes, do not violate rights protected by the constitution.”

    Karen Braun, a homeschooling parent from Michigan, also tells Breitbart News she is opposed to H.R. 610.

    “Reading the fine print, it is clear they will make sure that states distribute the funds in a manner so as to ‘ensure that such payments will be used for appropriate educational expenses,’” she explains. “And who gets to define ‘appropriate educational expense?’ They do.”

    “This isn’t about giving homeschoolers help, or offering choices, but about giving the nanny state more control,” Braun concludes.

    The bill is co-sponsored by Republican Reps. Andy Harris (MD), Trent Franks (AZ), and Pete Olson (TX).

    Estrada observes to members of HSLDA that Franks has clarified his position on the bill after speaking with homeschoolers:

    [W]e talked with Franks and his staff and they agree with our concerns about homeschooling families being included in H.R. 610. As a result, there is no need to contact his office, and we are deeply grateful to him for his commitment to protecting homeschool freedom from “help” by the federal government. Here is the statement Franks gave us: “I understand the concerns of the homeschool community. My support for the bill only extends to vouchers for public school and private school students. If this bill moves forward, I would request that any language that would impose vouchers upon homeschools is taken out.”

    Breitbart News reached out to Franks’ office, and his staff confirmed his statement to Estrada.

    The bill is introduced just as Betsy DeVos takes her post as U.S. education secretary. DeVos – whose primary areas of interest have been school choice and school voucher programs – experienced unprecedented controversy during her confirmation process from both those on the left, who fear privatization of public schools, and those on the right who have warned against regulation of private and home schools through vouchers.

    The school voucher – as a transfer of taxpayer funds – is a finance mechanism to create school choice and one that is associated with the highest level of regulation for schools that agree to accept them. If parents use vouchers to send their children to a private school or to homeschool them, that school choice may have additional regulatory burdens placed upon it by the state in which it is located – in the name of “accountability.”

    In a 2010 study at Cato Institute, Andrew Coulson studied the question of school vouchers and increased regulation of private schools. He concluded that “vouchers… impose a substantial and statistically significant additional regulatory burden on participating private schools.”

    Voucher programs, Coulson concluded, are more likely to “suffocate the very markets to which they aim to expand access,” because state funds—which invariably come with state regulation—are directly transferred, in the form of vouchers, to parents to spend in an alternate education setting.

    Cindy Nicolai writes at the Oklahoma-based Constitutional Home Educators Alliance that, for homeschoolers, government regulations are binding “strings.”

    “Parent-directed and privately-funded home education must avoid those strings in order to retain our independence, sovereignty, autonomy, and most importantly, our freedom,” she explains. “We recognize the value of that freedom and are willing to pay the cost to keep self-funded home education unrestricted and free from government control.”

    “Homeschools are not threatened under this bill,” King insists, but adds, “I’m still open to listen to viewpoints, but they also must listen to mine, and they have not done that. They should come and talk to me in a reasonable fashion instead of unleashing letters across the state and asking people to send tweets at me, send letters, and call my office.”
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11



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  3. #2
    Everything government gets involved in it $#@!s up.

  4. #3
    Amen. We've homeschooled 6 kids. Homeschoolers should want nothing to do with these plans. I've been frankly fearful that this is going to be the legacy of DeVos. Democrats have done nothing on the federal level that could be as harmful as this to homeschooling.

    trump's administration and a toxic Republican congress are just doing whatever sounds Republican, whittling down liberty as they go.
    Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Everything government gets involved in it $#@!s up.
    The "Devil" is always in the details.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrr View Post
    Amen. We've homeschooled 6 kids. Homeschoolers should want nothing to do with these plans. I've been frankly fearful that this is going to be the legacy of DeVos. Democrats have done nothing on the federal level that could be as harmful as this to homeschooling.

    trump's administration and a toxic Republican congress are just doing whatever sounds Republican, whittling down liberty as they go.
    Plus, once the gov gets involved there is no longer freedom of choice on schooling principles and subject matter.

    I was home-schooled & I am 1 billion % against this.
    There is no spoon.

  7. #6

  8. #7
    This government creep just never ends. Maybe since we're close to a quorum for a Constitutional Convention there may be opportunities to clarify a few of the founders statements therein. And immediately thereafter disqualify 99% of the federal register.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by anaconda View Post
    This government creep just never ends. Maybe since we're close to a quorum for a Constitutional Convention there may be opportunities to clarify a few of the founders statements therein. And immediately thereafter disqualify 99% of the federal register.
    Or we could end up getting $#@!ed even harder than we are now.
    "The Patriarch"



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  11. #9
    Only an idiot would propose this. Who is this distinguished lad?

  12. #10
    Seems like freedom is already lost when you're paying for a public school that you're not even using. Doesn't school choice and vouchers provide money for homeschool programs? Seems like that's a return of lost freedom.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Or we could end up getting $#@!ed even harder than we are now.
    Balanced Budget Amendment couldn't help but be some improvement. Gold and silver tender would be better. Budget would balance by default.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by anaconda View Post
    This government creep just never ends. Maybe since we're close to a quorum for a Constitutional Convention there may be opportunities to clarify a few of the founders statements therein. And immediately thereafter disqualify 99% of the federal register.
    That's not going to happen. If we are to the point of having a CC to clarify the Founders statements then their original pronunciation has been lost to the people. It never should have gotten this far. The fact that it has is the one thing that should make any liberty proponent fearful of a CC.

  15. #13
    This has been in the conduit long before Trump.
    Homeschoolers were blogging and ytubing about this in 2010.
    If you take the 'money'....
    you owe 'obeisance' = followup, documenting, testing, accounting, curriculum.
    Most of us intuitively know that.
    Say no to the money (voucher)... keep your (limited) freedom over your kids.

    It was/is the same for the churches...
    If you take the 'money'.... (aka 'non-profit' tax exemption)
    you owe 'obeisance' (aka.. no 'politics' from the pulpit)
    Sad... but none of this is new.

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    That's not going to happen. If we are to the point of having a CC to clarify the Founders statements then their original pronunciation has been lost to the people. It never should have gotten this far. The fact that it has is the one thing that should make any liberty proponent fearful of a CC.
    count me against ANY hint of a CC. God forbid.
    Last edited by goldenequity; 02-18-2017 at 07:18 PM.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    That's not going to happen. If we are to the point of having a CC to clarify the Founders statements then their original pronunciation has been lost to the people. It never should have gotten this far. The fact that it has is the one thing that should make any liberty proponent fearful of a CC.
    Maybe a better strategy would be to join them?

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by goldenequity View Post
    This has been in the conduit long before Trump.
    Homeschoolers were blogging and ytubing about this in 2010.
    If you take the 'money'....
    you owe 'obeisance' = followup, documenting, testing, accounting, curriculum.
    Most of us intuitively know that.
    Say no to the money (voucher)... keep your (limited) freedom over your kids.

    It was/is the same for the churches...
    If you take the 'money'.... (aka 'non-profit' tax exemption)
    you owe 'obeisance' (aka.. no 'politics' from the pulpit)
    Sad... but none of this is new.



    count me against ANY hint of a CC. God forbid.
    so does the law make registering mandatory or an optional choice only if you want voucher funds? Maybe since its block granted to states, the states could make that determination as far as mandatory or voluntary.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  18. #16
    On the other hand, people want a federal right to smoke pot.

    Former home schooler here. Home school laws were not so favorable back when we were doing it, but we, and most of our friends, did it anyway. We did not act any different than we normally did. We had a name for our school and we did whatever supported our educational effort. It's how people should act. Live your life and be free.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi



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  20. #17
    Wow. Weird tax question. If your state runs a lottery and all proceeds, minus lotto costs, go to the states education system...are tickets a write off if you don't win?

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    so does the law make registering mandatory or an optional choice only if you want voucher funds? Maybe since its block granted to states, the states could make that determination as far as mandatory or voluntary.
    No Federal law has made those kinds of determinations afaik..
    but
    State laws do and have for MANY years.

    Just as an anecdote.. New York State was absolutely one of the worst for anti-homeschool regulations..
    and ABSOLUTELY required registration
    and THAT
    was only if YOU THE PARENT could qualify yourself before a school board.
    There were punitive laws as well...
    with fines and court orders and threats as well.
    Christians took it 'personally' as it was mostly Christian parents who were inclined to insulate their kids from the 'system'.

  22. #19
    Why on earth would a homeschool kid need a voucher? Yes there are homeschool curricula that cost money but some are free.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    so does the law make registering mandatory or an optional choice only if you want voucher funds? Maybe since its block granted to states, the states could make that determination as far as mandatory or voluntary.
    If a private school becomes a charter school and takes vouchers, etc. then it must conform to state education regulations. If homeschoolers are forced into this, then they will also have to conform to said regulations.

    I was "unschooled"; my parents allowed me to follow my interests and because of that I became interested in everything from arts to science to history etc, etc, etc. NOBODY "learns" anything that is forced on them. They may burp it out and test well, but it will be soon be gone from memory.
    There is no spoon.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    That's not going to happen. If we are to the point of having a CC to clarify the Founders statements then their original pronunciation has been lost to the people. It never should have gotten this far. The fact that it has is the one thing that should make any liberty proponent fearful of a CC.
    The Constitution has been amended several times. It was designed to be. And it's the Republicans at the state level that will be doing it. Can't get much better than that. Sort of.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Why on earth would a homeschool kid need a voucher? Yes there are homeschool curricula that cost money but some are free.
    I think the idea is that you're paying into tax coffers for public schooling and if you aren't using it you should get the money back (or at least some of it).

    It sounds wonderful, except once they start giving you back money, they expect to be allowed to say *how* you should use it to homeschool you kids. Sad as it is, it's probably better to keep paying politicians to waste money trying to educate other people's kids and just put up with the extra cost of homeschooling your own.

    Nearly 2/3rds of my property tax goes to fund an utterly failing local school system where I live, and I don't even have kids. If anyone needs a voucher, it's me.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by anaconda View Post
    The Constitution has been amended several times. It was designed to be. And it's the Republicans at the state level that will be doing it. Can't get much better than that. Sort of.
    Good luck with that, then.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    On the other hand, people want a federal right to smoke pot.

    Former home schooler here. Home school laws were not so favorable back when we were doing it, but we, and most of our friends, did it anyway. We did not act any different than we normally did. We had a name for our school and we did whatever supported our educational effort. It's how people should act. Live your life and be free.
    I do not think they want a federal right to smoke pot. They want the federal govt to leave them be.
    USE THIS SITE TO LINK ARTICLES FROM OLIGARCH MEDIA:http://archive.is/ STARVE THE BEAST.
    More Government = Less Freedom
    Communism never disappeared it only changed its name to Social Democrat
    Emotion and Logic mix like oil and water



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Good luck with that, then.
    I have no problem with forcing progressives to fall in line with a balanced budget amendment, regardless of whether they have lost touch with, or interest in, founding principles. Seems like a very healthy response by the citizenry of the many states to federal overreach. I would prefer to see it as a majority of folks who have great reverence for the founders' pronunciations of which you speak.
    Last edited by anaconda; 02-19-2017 at 05:04 PM.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by seapilot View Post
    I do not think they want a federal right to smoke pot. They want the federal govt to leave them be.
    Find anyone on here who doesn't scream for legalization. Except me.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by anaconda View Post
    The Constitution has been amended several times. It was designed to be. And it's the Republicans at the state level that will be doing it. Can't get much better than that. Sort of.
    what???

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by TommyJeff View Post
    what???
    I can try to rephrase: The procedure for amending the constitution is specified within the document and has been utilized 27 times. If republicans gain one more state legislature they will have a two thirds majority of states and can theoretically use this to convene a constitutional convention and propose "conservative" amendments (if the situation were reversed and Democrats were on the brink of being able to control a constitutional convention, then we might be in for a pile of hurt). The most popular amendment I've heard talk of is a "balanced budget amendment." Which sounds pretty good to me compared to what we have now. Sorry if I was somehow obtuse.

    http://inthesetimes.com/article/1981...porate-america

    It seems to me that the current obstacle (other than getting a 34th state legislature to turn Republican) is that ratification of any proposed amendments require three-fourths of the state legislatures (38 states). So four Democratic state legislatures would need to vote for ratification. Whether this is possible is over my pay grade of analysis.
    Last edited by anaconda; 02-19-2017 at 05:54 PM.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    Find anyone on here who doesn't scream for legalization. Except me.
    me.. I'm all about decriminalization and unscheduling the plant.. and it's cousin hemp
    Disclaimer: any post made after midnight and before 8AM is made before the coffee dip stick has come up to optomim level - expect some level of silliness,

    The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are out numbered by those who vote for a living !!!!!!!

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by anaconda View Post
    I can try to rephrase: The procedure for amending the constitution is specified within the document and has been utilized 27 times. If republicans gain one more state legislature they will have a two thirds majority of states and can theoretically use this to convene a constitutional convention and propose "conservative" amendments (if the situation were reversed and Democrats were on the brink of being able to control a constitutional convention, then we might be in for a pile of hurt). The most popular amendment I've heard talk of is a "balanced budget amendment." Which sounds pretty good to me compared to what we have now. Sorry if I was somehow obtuse.

    http://inthesetimes.com/article/1981...porate-america

    It seems to me that the current obstacle (other than getting a 34th state legislature to turn Republican) is that ratification of any proposed amendments require three-fourths of the state legislatures (38 states). So four Democratic state legislatures would need to vote for ratification. Whether this is possible is over my pay grade of analysis.
    My mistake, I understand your point now. It's a good point. Ty

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