Afghanistan's dirty little secret

[Jace]

All those dead troops, all that money spent, for this?

Afghanistan's dirty little secret

Joel Brinkley
San Francisco Chronicle
Sunday, August 29, 2010

Western forces fighting in southern Afghanistan had a problem. Too often, soldiers on patrol passed an older man walking hand-in-hand with a pretty young boy. Their behavior suggested he was not the boy's father. Then, British soldiers found that young Afghan men were actually trying to "touch and fondle them," military investigator AnnaMaria Cardinalli told me. "The soldiers didn't understand."

All of this was so disconcerting that the Defense Department hired Cardinalli, a social scientist, to examine this mystery. Her report, "Pashtun Sexuality," startled not even one Afghan. But Western forces were shocked - and repulsed...

[Danke]

Maybe Dannno is right?!?!

A recent State Department report called "dancing boys" a "widespread, culturally sanctioned form of male rape.

Sociologists and anthropologists say the problem results from perverse interpretation of Islamic law. Women are simply unapproachable. Afghan men cannot talk to an unrelated woman until after proposing marriage.

[legion]

The DoD has come up with a brand new strategy to raise the popularity of their wars.

Now instead of calling them terrorists they will claim that our enemies are paedofiles.

[lester1/2jr]

Frontline had a special on this it was incredibly disturbing. really one of the most awful things I've ever seen

[madengr]

Watch the movie "The Kite Runner".

[Stary Hickory]

K well that is a sick practice and it's abhorrent. Obviousl Afghanistan has SERIOUS issues over there. But I still do not support bombing the krap out of them for it. We cannot police the world, it just cannot happen.

[Romulus]

K well that is a sick practice and it's abhorrent. Obviousl Afghanistan has SERIOUS issues over there. But I still do not support bombing the krap out of them for it. We cannot police the world, it just cannot happen.

but but but the Time cover! We must selectively choose to be outraged, when our strategic geopolitical advantages are at stake.

[Acala]

That falls into the large and ever-growing category of "Not My Problem".

[sratiug]

K well that is a sick practice and it's abhorrent. Obviousl Afghanistan has SERIOUS issues over there. But I still do not support bombing the krap out of them for it. We cannot police the world, it just cannot happen.

I think those were our allies. So we aren't bombing them for it, we are bombing to protect it - except the bombees are pedophiles too. Does that mean we are maintaining pedophile nuetrality? I thought pedophilia was illegal??? Don't they have any $#@!ing laws there now that we have instilled a great democracy?

Maybe we should send some priests over to teach them how to cover it up.

[Indy Vidual]

...Maybe we should send some priests over to teach them how to cover it up.

Would a Catholic be required to confess finding this sinfully funny, and what would the priest say?

[heavenlyboy34]

i think those were our allies. So we aren't bombing them for it, we are bombing to protect it - except the bombees are pedophiles too. Does that mean we are maintaining pedophile nuetrality? I thought pedophilia was illegal??? Don't they have any $#@!ing laws there now that we have instilled a great democracy?

maybe we should send some priests over to teach them how to cover it up.

lmao!!! :d

[Anti Federalist]

Maybe we should send some priests over to teach them how to cover it up.

Honestly, like "we" have any credibility, here.

Once having consulted some Catholic priests they can hire a lawyer through NAMBLA.

[LibertyVox]

Funny you brought up NAMBLA lolz.

Here's the thing, I was going to take this thread seriously, until I saw the OP's words

All those dead troops, all that money spent, for this?

That implied something noble on our part. We being the aggressors, and the hectoring hegemons.

And then read the piece posted:

Western forces fighting in southern Afghanistan had a problem. Too often, soldiers on patrol passed an older man walking hand-in-hand with a pretty young boy. Their behavior suggested he was not the boy's father. Then, British soldiers found that young Afghan men were actually trying to "touch and fondle them," military investigator AnnaMaria Cardinalli told me. "The soldiers didn't understand."

All of this was so disconcerting that the Defense Department hired Cardinalli, a social scientist, to examine this mystery. Her report, "Pashtun Sexuality," startled not even one Afghan.

But fortunately I saw someone (Legion) calling BS on this:

The DoD has come up with a brand new strategy to raise the popularity of their wars.

Now instead of calling them terrorists they will claim that our enemies are paedofiles.

This is precisely what it is actually.

The backbone of the insurgency in Afghanistan is primarily based in the south, though not just the south since Gen McChrystal already conceded that these rag tag insurgents whom he calls en masse Taliban control 70% of the country.
The backbone of the insurgency just like against the Soviets is from the Pashtuns, though not just the Pashtuns. Not surprising to see then the pro war press here tying these two in the propaganda piece.
Because the truth be told this practice of pedarasty has its roots much older. And it is similar to that of the Greeks, Samurais, and Turks and Indo-European cultures. In fact the Persians had borrowed this practice from the Greeks. And the first stern rebuke of homosexuality/Pedarasty is not found in middle eastern cultures but in Zoroastrian Gathas, complete with the "barbaric" punishments. It was Zoroastrianism which later influenced Chebrew thought regarding homosexuality.

So it's funny, the report did not mention that pedarasty is much more common in areas controlled by our darling rapist warlords because of whom Taliban were received open arms by the population in the first place. Because rapes, drug and mafia culture, checkpoints, and child abuse had become so common.

When the Taliban gained control of the country in the 1990s they criminalized all sexual relationships outside of a traditional heterosexual marriage, and would often publicly execute men and women for committing fornication and adultery and for engaging in sodomy.
In 1994, the Taliban supreme leader, Mullah Omar, saved a boy from being sodomized by two feuding generals in Kandahar and when he was subsequently given control of the city he decreed that violent and consensual sodomy would be capital crimes.

(wikipedia)



In fact they enforced morality at gun point the images of which were then used by the Clinton administration, progressives, feminists, human rights etc to impose even more sanctions on an already destroyed society.....not to mention it gave bigots all the arsenal they ever needed. (BTW, the human rights NGOs et al were absolutely right in their abhorrence to this primitive brutal regime and its tactics regardless of whether they knew the history of the country and what the people had gone through. Where they failed as all progressives do was using government force and in this case a Hegemon's clout along with international corporation known as UN to enforce modern standards in a country utterly destroyed).

So for this report to point the guns at Taliban (or Pashtuns more accurately who as already been pointed out--have always historically-- formed the back bone of the insurgency) like that, is nothing but pro war propaganda because it is at least in part an out right overkill especially in light of history.

It is quite similar to the propaganda that drugs finance talivan (which is just a euphemism for any insurgent). For sure some insurgents use drug money and I see nothing wrong witht hat. But what the propaganda fails to mention is that only about 2% of the drugs are grown from the Talivan controlled area, the rest come from our darling minions whom we ever so readily install and glorify. Startling especially in light o the fact that under Talibanic fascist village redneckish puritanism 98% of the opium crops were burnt down.

[Jace]

Funny you brought up NAMBLA lolz.

Here's the thing, I was going to take this thread seriously, until I saw the OP's words


That implied something noble on our part. We being the aggressors, and the hectoring hegemons.

How did I imply that?

We are wasting all this money and all these lives on that awful place, and I suppose that's why I posted this. This culture is completely foreign to us, and Democrats and Republicans need to know and understand that. All the nation building in the world over there is never going to work.

We need to get the hell out of that part of the world and distance ourselves from them, rather than spending money and lives in the false hope that one day Afghanistan will be some peaceful, capitalist democracy.

I think the establishment is selling this war as a fight between good and evil, and if we leave then we will have abandoned the good people to the evil ones. That's how they're selling it. People need to know that it's not about good versus evil, but about occupying a place that is completely alien to us, and we are alien to them.

If you look at a map and look where Afghanistan is and where Iraq is, and what's in the middle, then you will see the real reason we are over there. But they are selling this war as if we are there to drive out Al Qaeda terrorists and protect the poor oppressed women of Afghanistan from the Taliban. Meanwhile, Karzai is molesting boys on the American dole.

[marc1888]

This is disgusting. First the opium production that pollutes the world and now the rape of young men. We need to stop this in Afghanistan. We need to put the Taliban back in power... Then our mission will be successful...

How did I imply that?

We are wasting all this money and all these lives on that awful place, and I suppose that's why I posted this. This culture is completely foreign to us, and Democrats and Republicans need to know and understand that. All the nation building in the world over there is never going to work.

We need to get the hell out of that part of the world and distance ourselves from them, rather than spending money and lives in the false hope that one day Afghanistan will be some peaceful, capitalist democracy.

I think the establishment is selling this war as a fight between good and evil, and if we leave then we will have abandoned the good people to the evil ones. That's how they're selling it. People need to know that it's not about good versus evil, but about occupying a place that is completely alien to us, and we are alien to them.

If you look at a map and look where Afghanistan is and where Iraq is, and what's in the middle, then you will see the real reason we are over there. But they are selling this war as if we are there to drive out Al Qaeda terrorists and protect the poor oppressed women of Afghanistan from the Taliban. Meanwhile, Karzai is molesting boys on the American dole.

[SWATH]

Yeah a SFOD-A friend of mine got back and was like "We need to get the $#@! out of there, those people are $#@!ed, even if we brought them some stable government they are mostly a bunch of ***** pedophiles so who cares". He said that a lot of the men have a small boy that they keep around for sex.

[ProBlue33]

Sick & Disgusting and Gross

These people are beyond help, all American and NATO forces need to stop wasting their taxpayers money and begin immediate withdrawal.

This will be an issue for 2012 if Americans are still there in large numbers.
Ron Paul should use this to emphasis the need for withdrawal, immediately.

And Rand should stop playing politics and do it to, that really bugs me about him.

[Southron]

I'm all for leaving that near God-forsaken land.

Better to let them waddle in their own filth than have any part in it.

[Toureg89]

The DoD has come up with a brand new strategy to raise the popularity of their wars.

Now instead of calling them terrorists they will claim that our enemies are paedofiles.

it is true, however. some pushtun afghans engage in this behavior. ask anyone who has been to afghanistan.

[fisharmor]

So, let me see if I got this right....

You get caught $#@!ing a 9 year old boy anywhere in the United States under any circumstances whatsoever, and you get thrown in a rape dungeon for a decade....
...do it in Afghanistan and it's a status symbol...
...and the whole reason we're over there killing them is because they hate us for our freedoms.

Does that sum it up? Not that I condone what they're doing, I just want to establish that they're allowed to do things over there that are totally out of the question in the land of the free.

[LibertyVox]

How did I imply that?

We are wasting all this money and all these lives on that awful place, and I suppose that's why I posted this. This culture is completely foreign to us, and Democrats and Republicans need to know and understand that. All the nation building in the world over there is never going to work.

We need to get the hell out of that part of the world and distance ourselves from them, rather than spending money and lives in the false hope that one day Afghanistan will be some peaceful, capitalist democracy.

I think the establishment is selling this war as a fight between good and evil, and if we leave then we will have abandoned the good people to the evil ones. That's how they're selling it. People need to know that it's not about good versus evil, but about occupying a place that is completely alien to us, and we are alien to them.

If you look at a map and look where Afghanistan is and where Iraq is, and what's in the middle, then you will see the real reason we are over there. But they are selling this war as if we are there to drive out Al Qaeda terrorists and protect the poor oppressed women of Afghanistan from the Taliban. Meanwhile, Karzai is molesting boys on the American dole.

Well I am sure you didn't mean that, it's how your OP came across to me. As if this was some kind of a big awakening for us to pull out. And the article you posted unfortunately was a propaganda piece. Read my post#13. But I understand what you said and you make excellent points here.
Truth is we should never have gone in the way we did. We never had the moral high ground and we willfully installed these vile criminal warlords many of whom are also sexual predators.
So we not only have bombed and killed Afghans, we installed an immoral puppet government who have made Afghanistan into opium capital of the world, villify the insurgents who in another place we wouldn't have hesitated to call freedom fighters (who btw, fought us with less than nothing and won) and made war on a people none of whom ever harmed us. Not only that, we broke a myriad of international laws (written by our own elites mostly in the first place) by bombing and killing innocent people across the border in Pakistan and installing another puppet regime there.

BTW, just like for some reason the word Sharia has been bastardized in this part of the world (due to hotheaded religious bigotry), the word capitalist democracy has become a euphemism for colonialism, destruction, occupation, murder etc.. (due to empirical experience). So I prefer the word liberty. Yes I hope Afghans discover the true meaning of liberty, otherwise they'll keep replacing one kind of hell with another (not unlike much of the world, but to a more radical degree). But that's for them to learn on their own. Unfortunately though, I think once the fabric of a society has been destroyed due to brutal wars (and this is exactly what wars do: destroy societies), it's not easy to come out of that loop without an enlightened leadership.

Oh, and btw on Karzai --the former mayor of Kabul (as his governance doesn't even extend to the capital anymore)-- is himself a molested stooge who along with others had warned long ago not to bring in the warlords of the Northern Alliance for they were worse than the Taliban.

[LibertyVox]

it is true, however. some pushtun afghans engage in this behavior. ask anyone who has been to afghanistan.

You're both right and not so right. Brutality of any sort even sexual in a brutal environment is hardly restricted to any one group and I am not claiming that only this kind of sexual violence exists in that country. But refer to post#13 to read why this piece is a propaganda. Because among the Afghans (be it Pashtuns, Tajiks, Uzbegs etc..) it is not so much the Pashtun who have been notorious for it but mostly more northern areas of that country closer to deeper central Asia: the warlords (not the people) in Usbeg and Tajik areas. It is there where the practice has deeper history and symbol of status. Of course, since the advent of Islam into the region, this practice has been largely eradicated, but old habits dies hard and in isolated parts of that region, it emerges in circumstances, such as the current lawless brutal chaos. So keeping these things in mind , the intent of the article becomes quite clear.

[Toureg89]

You're both right and not so right. Brutality of any sort even sexual in a brutal environment is hardly restricted to any one group and I am not claiming that only this kind of sexual violence exists in that country. But refer to post#13 to read why this piece is a propaganda. Because among the Afghans (be it Pashtuns, Tajiks, Uzbegs etc..) it is not so much the Pashtun who have been notorious for it but mostly more northern areas of that country closer to deeper central Asia: the warlords (not the people) in Usbeg and Tajik areas. It is there where the practice has deeper history and symbol of status. Of course, since the advent of Islam into the region, this practice has been largely eradicated, but old habits dies hard and in isolated parts of that region, it emerges in circumstances, such as the current lawless brutal chaos. So keeping these things in mind , the intent of the article becomes quite clear.

ok. should we start or continue wars in order to "avenge rape victims of the world"?

no.


i could understand how i am partially wrong, what i hear about the practice comes from exclusively army vets who are coming back, who interact mostly with pushtun. i am no historian on the area, so i dont know how unusual this practice is in relation to other ethnic groups.

[LibertyVox]

ok. should we start or continue wars in order to "avenge rape victims of the world"?

no.


i could understand how i am partially wrong, what i hear about the practice comes from exclusively army vets who are coming back, who interact mostly with pushtun. i am no historian on the area, so i dont know how unusual this practice is in relation to other ethnic groups.

I am historian . Click on the links I provided.

[Jace]

You're both right and not so right. Brutality of any sort even sexual in a brutal environment is hardly restricted to any one group and I am not claiming that only this kind of sexual violence exists in that country. But refer to post#13 to read why this piece is a propaganda. Because among the Afghans (be it Pashtuns, Tajiks, Uzbegs etc..) it is not so much the Pashtun who have been notorious for it but mostly more northern areas of that country closer to deeper central Asia: the warlords (not the people) in Usbeg and Tajik areas. It is there where the practice has deeper history and symbol of status. Of course, since the advent of Islam into the region, this practice has been largely eradicated, but old habits dies hard and in isolated parts of that region, it emerges in circumstances, such as the current lawless brutal chaos. So keeping these things in mind , the intent of the article becomes quite clear.

What intent is that?

[Vessol]

Regardless if you consider this morally wrong, it is not our place to enforce our morals on the people of Afghanistan, or impose anything else.

[Anti Federalist]

hectoring hegemons.

That's good, I'm putting that in my pocket and keeping it.

[Anti Federalist]

how did i imply that?

We are wasting all this money and all these lives on that awful place, and i suppose that's why i posted this. This culture is completely foreign to us, and democrats and republicans need to know and understand that. All the nation building in the world over there is never going to work.

We need to get the hell out of that part of the world and distance ourselves from them, rather than spending money and lives in the false hope that one day afghanistan will be some peaceful, capitalist democracy.

I think the establishment is selling this war as a fight between good and evil, and if we leave then we will have abandoned the good people to the evil ones. That's how they're selling it. People need to know that it's not about good versus evil, but about occupying a place that is completely alien to us, and we are alien to them.

If you look at a map and look where afghanistan is and where iraq is, and what's in the middle, then you will see the real reason we are over there. But they are selling this war as if we are there to drive out al qaeda terrorists and protect the poor oppressed women of afghanistan from the taliban. Meanwhile, karzai is molesting boys on the american dole.

+1776

[Icymudpuppy]

This is endemic among many fundamentalist islamic cultures. When I was in Armor and Cavalry Officer Basic Course, we had a Kuwaiti Lieutenant who was in the course as well, and he had brought his wife to America with him. They were trying to conceive but having no luck.

Turns out they were using the wrong hole.

[Danke]

Turns out they were using the wrong hole.

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