OK Highway Patrol Using Device To Steal From "Suspects" Debit and Credit Cards

[SeanTX]

Just about all of the comments on the story are against this, but since when has the will of the people mattered ? Of course, the OHP won't admit it's a money grab, it's more about fighting "identity theft."

They say "we're going to look at your story about how you got the money" -- what if you exercise your right to not tell them ? I guess that would be a reason to steal the money also.

http://www.news9.com/story/32168555/...ion-of-a-crime

OHP Uses New Device To Seize Money Used During The Commission Of A Crime

Posted: Jun 07, 2016 5:57 PM CDT Updated: Jun 07, 2016 5:57 PM CDT
BY AARON BRILBECK, NEWS 9EMAIL

OKLAHOMA CITY - You may have heard of civil asset forfeiture.
That's where police can seize your property and cash without first proving you committed a crime; without a warrant and without arresting you, as long as they suspect that your property is somehow tied to a crime.

Now, the Oklahoma Highway Patrol has a device that also allows them to seize money in your bank account or on prepaid cards.

It's called an ERAD, or Electronic Recovery and Access to Data machine, and state police began using 16 of them last month.

Here's how it works. If a trooper suspects you may have money tied to some type of crime, the highway patrol can scan any cards you have and seize the money.

"We're gonna look for different factors in the way that you're acting,” Oklahoma Highway Patrol Lt. John Vincent said. “We're gonna look for if there's a difference in your story. If there's someway that we can prove that you're falsifying information to us about your business."

snip

State Sen. Kyle Loveless, R-Oklahoma City, said that removes due process and the belief that a suspect is presumed innocent until proven guilty. He said we've already seen cases in Oklahoma where police are abusing the system.

snip

It shows the state is paying ERAD Group Inc., $5,000 for the software and scanners, then 7.7 percent of all the cash the highway patrol seizes.

[jkr]

Pirates

[tod evans]

Armed robbery.

[phill4paul]

Highway Patrol = Highwayman

A highwayman was a robber who stole from travelers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highwayman

[Origanalist]

"If you can prove can prove that you have a legitimate reason to have that money it will be given back to you

What the hell does that mean? Who decides what is legitimate and by what authority? Screw these people.

[Anti Federalist]

LOL...just when I think it can't get any worse, it does.

[AZJoe]

"If you can prove can prove that you have a legitimate reason to have that money it will be given back to you"

Reason: Because its mine.

[Anti Federalist]

The comments are encouraging.

http://www.news9.com/story/32168555/...ion-of-a-crime

[Anti Federalist]

Armed robbery.

Worse than armed robbery.

At least you can shoot back at most robbers.

[Anti Federalist]

Charge It….

http://ericpetersautos.com/2016/06/10/charge-it/

by eric • June 10, 2016

In “Third World” countries – the ones Americans take comfort in making fun of – they just take your money.

The cops, I mean.

No pretext, just hand it over.

And now, here.

The Oklahoma Highway Patrol is using a gadget called an Electronic Recovery and Access to Data Machine (ERAD – god, how the state’s thugs love their acronyms) to simply vacuum whatever money you happen to have in your bank account or on a prepaid gift card. The machine accesses your account – basically, like a card reader at the cashier of any store/restaurant where you just bought something – and takes it.

All of it.

Without your having “bought” anything.

Much less having been convicted of committing a crime.

These thugs – literally, in the historic sense (see here about the infamous Thuggee Cult of India) simply steal whatever they wish, using threats of lethal reprisal to assure the cooperation of their victims, who are legally forbidden to defend themselves.

This is an outrage for which there are no words.

Screams are the only appropriate response.

And, perhaps, something more.

It may be time for that – god help us.

Mind, there is no conviction – or even accusation. Merely the thug-in-costume’s assertion that you – his victim – seemed (to him!) to be behaving “peculiarly.” Because no reasonable person would ever feel the slightest bit nervous and defensive, having just been waylaid by an armed thug with the legal power to simply strip him of his possessions and possibly his life, if he objects in any way.

How about women who “seem nervous” when confronted by a man who steps out of dark alley and throws a few questions their way?

We are truly through the Looking Glass. And it does not look good.


The chief thug – a creature calling itself Oklahoma Highway Patrol Lt. John Vincent – bared its fangs as follows”: “We’re gonna look for different factors in the way that you’re acting… we’re gonna look for if there’s a difference in your story… “

Not the italicized portions (leaving aside the usual illiteracy).

The creature adds:

“If you can prove that you have a legitimate reason to have that money it will be given back to you.”

I italicized the works. Do you savvy?

It is up to you to prove to the thugs that you’ve not committed a crime. That what you have is rightfully yours … not according to any defined/objective standard but according to how they feel about it…. or they’ll just take it and so much for due process or even common decency.

How does one prove that the $100 (or the $10,000) they have with them is “legitimate” to the satisfaction of a thug-with-a-badge who is the sole arbiter of what constitutes “legitimate”?

What about this hoary old business of having to establish that a person stole something before the state can steal from him?

Jesus Christ! Things have officially gotten Out of Hand.

It appears that the only safe way to travel in the land of the “free” is with no more than $20 in your wallet and leave the credit/debit cards at home.

Do not travel with prepaid gifts cards for the kids.

Something is more than slouching toward Bethlehem. Something is – I hope – about to rise in a rictus of rage.

This cannot be allowed to go on.

Of course, it’s really nothing new.

The thugs-in-costume all around the country have been just taking people’s cash for years – the holding of “too much” or “excessive” cash by the victim being the only pretext necessary under the law to simply take it.

That is, to steal it.

Officially.

Because Drugs (or just because).

But this is an escalation.

Most people don’t – out of prudence – normally carry large amounts of cash. Not that this justifies stealing it. But one can – one could – reduce the risk of being robbed blind by a costumed thug by not carrying cash.

But it’s damn near impossible to leave your house without cards in your wallet. To pay for things without needing to carry large amounts of cash.

Now that’s not safe to do anymore, either.

Also, these ERADs cost money – your money, as the taxpaying sheep who “helps” fund their acquisition by the thugs-in-blue. Now comes the incentive to use the new toys – to make as much use of them as possible.

To make them pay.

Each one reportedly costs $6,600 and the company that makes them scores 7.7 percent of the “revenue” generated. Policing for profit.

The mind boggles.

Consider that by using license plate scanners (read about that here) the thugs can immediately know whom to target – based on their bank accounts. Which are in your name. Like your car is. And your license plate number is tied to your Social Security number (which is never to be used for purposes of identification) … which is tied to your bank accounts…

You are aware that such information is “shared” with the state… aren’t you? That banks are legally obliged to inform the state if you withdraw a certain “large” amount of cash from your account?hero worship

Is it beyond the realm of plausibility to imagine what the state might do with such information?

When you buy prepaid cards, Uncle Knows.

Uncle also Knows what’s in your checking and savings account, too.

And now he knows he can just Hoover either or both – just because he can.

It is obscene.

But, “brave” and “free” Americans do not seem to object.

Perhaps they ought to.

[Anti Federalist]

http://ij.org/report/policing-for-profit/

Worth a read.

[acptulsa]

This is all doubly ironic considering the last I heard, this particular agency would rather let you rot in jail than take plastic in payment of your fine.

[Bern]

FWIW, the News9 report has been updated and it no longer claims they can steal money from your bank accts - only from prepaid cards.

I checked the ERAD company website ( https://www.erad-group.com/ ) and it appears that their devices are limited to stealing from prepaid cards. I tried to call them a couple of times to get clarification, but only get an answering machine.

[Anti Federalist]

FWIW, the News9 report has been updated and it no longer claims they can steal money from your bank accts - only from prepaid cards.

I checked the ERAD company website ( https://www.erad-group.com/ ) and it appears that their devices are limited to stealing from prepaid cards. I tried to call them a couple of times to get clarification, but only get an answering machine.

From the OP:

Troopers insist this isn't just about seizing cash.

"I know that a lot of people are just going to focus on the seizing money. That's a very small thing that' s happening now. The largest part that we have found ... the biggest benefit has been the identity theft," Vincent said.

That suggests to me that these readers do give access to personal accounts.

[acptulsa]

From the OP:



That suggests to me that these readers do give access to personal accounts.

Yes, it does.

I'm detecting credit cards on your person in three different names. Care to explain to me why?

[oyarde]

Probably past time for the Gov.'s to just dissolve all the staties and just hire some private security out of the salary they have .

[Suzanimal]

[Bern]

Forbes did an article on the story. They say:

Law enforcement agencies in Oklahoma have purchased devices that allow police to seize and freeze funds electronically, which may dramatically expand their power to permanently confiscate property using asset forfeiture. Manufactured by the Texas-based ERAD Group, the devices work on “open loop” prepaid debit cards, like those offered by Visa or American Express. However, “debit cards attached to a valid checking account or valid credit cards cannot be processed” by an ERAD (Electronic Recovery and Access to Data) system.
...

More: http://www.forbes.com/sites/institut.../#78a89e972c8c

[Anti Federalist]

Forbes did an article on the story. They say:

Meh, even if Forbes is right, (I say they are not, and I'm usually right about these things) it will only be a matter of time until they are capable.

And I'm sure cops charging the max on your credit cards will be justified as, "it is money that could be used in the commission of a crime".

[tod evans]

Oklahoma's use of card readers to freeze, seize funds comes under fire


http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2016/06/...l?intcmp=hpbt2

Police in Oklahoma are using scanners that can identify phony credit cards, but critics warn the devices could also allow cops to empty the bank accounts of law-abiding citizens with one swipe.

Authorities in the state are using the new devices during traffic stops to freeze and seize money loaded onto prepaid debit cards by alleged drug traffickers, with the potential to net up to $8,000 per portable scanner. Supporters of the program, which has only been in the field for about six weeks, say it's an important tool for law enforcement agencies to interrupt the flow of illegal drugs into Oklahoma.

Critics, however, are blasting the machines as a disturbing extension of civil forfeiture laws, with the potential for abuse by police and prosecutors. Opponents say such devices are an infringement on Fourth Amendment prohibitions of unreasonable search and seizure -- and that police departments are in turn stuffing their wallets with the cash from innocent civilians.

"We believe it’s blatantly unconstitutional," Nick Sibillia, of the Institute for Justice, told FoxNews.com. "The Fourth Amendment is unfortunately in tatters in this day and age."

The Oklahoma Department of Public Safety signed a contract with Texas-based ERAD Group Inc., to use the devices, which work on "open loop" prepaid debit cards, like those provided by American Express and Visa. But "debit cards attached to a valid checking account or valid credit cards cannot be processed" by ERAD, which stands for Electronic Recovery and Access to Data.

The company that manufactures the devices is also promised 7.7 percent of all money forfeited using the machines, according to one contract obtained by Oklahoma Watch.

"It's just absolutely appalling that a private company can profit from this forfeited property," said Sibillia.

The card readers, which are said to be used in at least 25 other states, have reignited debate over civil asset forfeiture -- a legal tool used by police and prosecutors across the country to take millions of dollars in cash, cars, homes and more every year.

Under civil forfeiture, law enforcement can seize property without charging an individual with a crime. Unlike criminal forfeiture, no conviction is necessary to seize assets -- a law opponents say threatens basic rights to property and due process.

Further, state and federal statute allows for cash and assets associated with the drug trade to become the property of a policing agency through civil litigation. In many places, cash and property seized boosts the budgets of the very police agencies and prosecutor’s offices that took it. In 2012, 70 percent of all forfeiture expenditures in Oklahoma funded salaries for law enforcement, according to data obtained by The Institute for Justice.

In the case of the ERAD system, the Oklahoma Highway Patrol says the machines are important in fighting identity theft and credit card fraud.

In an interview with FoxNews.com, Capt. Paul Timmons sought to clarify "misinformation" he said has made people panic.

"This is a tool for our troopers to use when they suspect there’s criminal activity," he said. "We don’t have access to anyone’s personal banking activity -- that’s all protected information."

On Monday, Oklahoma authorities also held a press conference to dispel rumors about the devices.

“We can do nothing with someone’s bank account. We can do nothing with someone’s debit card,” said Oklahoma Highway Patrol chief Col. Ricky Adams. “What we can tell is if it is yours, if the information on the back of a gift card is your personal credit card information.”

Oklahoma State Sen. Kyle Loveless, however, said he has major concerns over the system's use and the potential for abuse.

"The manufacturer in its patent and promotional videos said it can get information from any card with a magnetic strip," Loveless told FoxNews.com. "The issue is if it can take money from one card, it can take money from any card."

Loveless, a Republican, said many legitimate business use the cards targeted by ERAD machines. He also noted that prepaid cards are the only source of banking for many lower-income and young people and that unemployment, disability and other government assistance programs give money using prepaid cards.

Loveless called civil forfeiture a "growing problem" in the state, claiming most forfeitures there average $1200 and that Oklahoma counties are "taking in millions of dollars a year." He said one audit found that an Oklahoma district attorney used forfeited money to pay of his law school loans.

"The potential for abuse is basically a slap in the face of Oklahomans and Americans," he said.

[ChristianAnarchist]

Demonstrates nicely who the bigger crooks are... the street thugs or the goons...

[Suzanimal]

Demonstrates nicely who the bigger crooks are... the street thugs or the goons...

At least you can protect your property against goons without being charged with another crime.

[tod evans]

At least you can protect your property against goons without being charged with another crime.

Only goons not dressed in blue, or camouflage, or black balaclavas, or with any state or federal authority....

[acptulsa]

Only goons not dressed in blue, or camouflage, or black balaclavas, or with any state or federal authority....

Actually, the goons in question are brownshirts.

[Anti Federalist]

and that police departments are in turn stuffing their wallets with the cash from innocent civilians

God damn it...this hacks me off.

Cops are just as much "civilians" as all the rest of us.

[Anti Federalist]

and that police departments are in turn stuffing their wallets with the cash from innocent civilians

God damn it...this hacks me off.

Cops are just as much "civilians" as all the rest of us.

[ChristianAnarchist]

At least you can protect your property against goons without being charged with another crime.

Ummm, not so much... The "goons" are what I call the cops, politicians, courts, (and add you favorite here). The goons are the ones who will come down on you like a ton of bricks when you wiggle wrong. (STOP RESISTING, STOP RESISTING!!!)

[Suzanimal]

Ummm, not so much... The "goons" are what I call the cops, politicians, courts, (and add you favorite here). The goons are the ones who will come down on you like a ton of bricks when you wiggle wrong. (STOP RESISTING, STOP RESISTING!!!)

My bad, I was confusing thugs with goons.

[presence]

do you get it now?


$#@! BANKS

[ChristianAnarchist]

My bad, I was confusing thugs with goons.

Ya, big difference. Thugs and criminals are simply thugs and criminals whereas "goons" are thugs and criminals who use a man behind the curtain to give them magical powers that make them at least think they are immune from natural law...