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Thread: Utah set to drop blood alcohol limit to .05

  1. #1

    Utah set to drop blood alcohol limit to .05

    Utah is getting ready to implement the strictest blood-alcohol driving limits in the country.
    The law, which was passed in March 2017 by Gov. Gary Herbert, will define driving under the influence as having a “blood or breath alcohol concentration of .05 grams or greater,” making it lower than the nation’s standard of .08.


    Under the new law, which will go into effect Dec. 30, a person will also be charged with “automobile homicide” if they kill another person while operating a vehicle with a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) level of .05 or higher -- considered a third-degree felony.
    By lowering the BAC limit, Utah becomes the first and only state to take action on the National Transportation Safety Board’s recommendations to lower BAC limits to .05. In the report, NTSB stated that “more than 100 countries have already established per se BAC limits at or below 0.05.”

    More at: https://www.yahoo.com/gma/utah-set-d...opstories.html
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  3. #2
    They have to purify the State so that Senator Mittens can move there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again

  4. #3
    If you went to party sat nite , you're 'legally'
    drunk-driving tue , meanwhile the other 24k/yr
    fatalaties caused by aggressive and incompetent
    drivers get a pass.


    *one hand typing 4 few days/weeks , no spell checkers & grammar police pleez .....
    Last edited by Stratovarious; 12-16-2018 at 05:48 AM.

  5. #4
    It all depends.

    I've seen a test on TV where they had a cop with a breathalizer, a prosecutor and an average Joe who likes a beer...
    At the end of the segment the average Joe was having fun while the prosecutor was nearly having a mental breakdown...

    It turned out that on a nice summer day, with a normal lunch, this average Joe could drink 9 normal pilsners before being over the limit. Every time waiting 10 minutes after finishing the beer and testing again, essentially drinking beer for an entire afternoon. The best part was this guy thought himself he definitely wasn't allowed to drive anymore after 6 beers (even though he felt okay).

    We also have the .05 limit here. I don't know where the limit should be. I prefer roadside sobriety tests over breathalizers to weed out people who can't drive, not perfect but at least it shows you're not able to function properly.
    "I am a bird"

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    It all depends.

    I've seen a test on TV where they had a cop with a breathalizer, a prosecutor and an average Joe who likes a beer...
    At the end of the segment the average Joe was having fun while the prosecutor was nearly having a mental breakdown...

    It turned out that on a nice summer day, with a normal lunch, this average Joe could drink 9 normal pilsners before being over the limit. Every time waiting 10 minutes after finishing the beer and testing again, essentially drinking beer for an entire afternoon. The best part was this guy thought himself he definitely wasn't allowed to drive anymore after 6 beers (even though he felt okay).

    We also have the .05 limit here. I don't know where the limit should be. I prefer roadside sobriety tests over breathalizers to weed out people who can't drive, not perfect but at least it shows you're not able to function properly.
    I can't pass a roadside sobriety test stone cold sober so I'm calling a big fat no on that one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  7. #6
    I would be considered legally drunk after one glass of wine. Ridiculous.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    I can't pass a roadside sobriety test stone cold sober so I'm calling a big fat no on that one.
    I get that, I don't think reciting the alphabet backwards is a very good way to judge peoples capability towards driving. I have no need to do that sober nor drunk so no particular skill either...

    Would you agree however it's more useful to look at peoples capabilities than some kind of (arbitrary) blood content ?

    I mean, the US Air Force used to give pilots amphetamines (not sure if that still is the case, @Danke ?) to keep them concentrated/awake on long missions. Normal person uses this while driving, loses their license and goes to jail. Makes no sense to me.
    "I am a bird"

  9. #8
    I'm in favor of police watching for weaving drunks
    and aggressive and hostile drivers, ditch the breathalyzer
    as mentioned.
    60% of fatalities are caused by sober drivers and 99% of those
    deaths in my view are 'avoidable' .


    *one hand typing 4 few days/weeks , no spell checkers & grammar police pleez .....



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    I get that, I don't think reciting the alphabet backwards is a very good way to judge peoples capability towards driving. I have no need to do that sober nor drunk so no particular skill either...

    Would you agree however it's more useful to look at peoples capabilities than some kind of (arbitrary) blood content ?

    I mean, the US Air Force used to give pilots amphetamines (not sure if that still is the case, @Danke ?) to keep them concentrated/awake on long missions. Normal person uses this while driving, loses their license and goes to jail. Makes no sense to me.
    How about going back to the good old days when they pulled you over if you were driving like an idoit and gave you a ride home (I don't recommend getting in the car with a cop for a ride home - I did it once only because it was before cell phones and I would've been left on a country road alone in the middle of the night) or just let you call someone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    I'm in favor of police watching for weaving drunks
    and aggressive and hostile drivers, ditch the breathalyzer
    as mentioned.
    60% of fatalities are caused by sober drivers and 99% of those
    deaths in my view are 'avoidable' .


    *one hand typing 4 few days/weeks , no spell checkers & grammar police pleez .....
    Every morning when I drive to work (about 40mi/40min-1hr) I see (almost)-accidents.

    They usually happen in the same places. For instance, we have a highway with two lanes on either side, grass and barrier in the middle. Semi-trucks are driving on the right lane (only allowed to overtake on the left here). Then you get an entrance to the highway... People going to work with no patience at all, simply moving two lanes at low speed not looking at any faster traffic on the left lane. In many cases forcing the car on the left lane to brake very hard. There is one location here where there is a multi-car pile up at least 4-6 times a year due to this exact issue.

    Similarly, people do not keep their distance, which I understand because lots of people don't think while driving or don't care. Especially drivers of delivery vans seem to wanna kill themselves. They regularly just throw their vehicle in front of you. I've had them put on their indicators and just push me off the road, which is why I have dual dash cams in my car, front and back. I may even add two more to film 60degrees to the side from the back window, capturing most of what is happening besides me.

    I got the dash cams after I hit a barrier... Caused by someone not paying attention, who instead of smashing into the car in front of them, threw their car in front of me. I was doing the speed limit, this car was much slower... I had to slam on the brakes on a wet road to avoid the car but got some serious oversteer as a result and kissed the barrier (A nice scratch but as I can drive a little I avoided totalling my car) after which I resumed full control again. Not my mistake but as I did not hit the other car and they didn't stop afterwards, I can't claim anything at my insurance. Pretty sure I could if I had the video.
    Last edited by luctor-et-emergo; 12-16-2018 at 06:13 AM.
    "I am a bird"

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    How about going back to the good old days when they pulled you over if you were driving like an idoit and gave you a ride home (I don't recommend getting in the car with a cop for a ride home - I did it once only because it was before cell phones and I would've been left on a country road alone in the middle of the night) or just let you call someone.
    That sort of thing still happens here in small towns, when people know each other. But it's getting rare. In the end, if you know people, you have a better shot at getting through to them and making them understand they put other peoples lives in danger. As well as the shame factor of letting down people 'close' to you.

    I prefer cops who would approach a situation like that. I mean, I don't think putting drunk drivers in jail and ruining any chances of a normal life for them is going to make the world a much better place. There must be better ways to handle safety on the road. Maybe the money used on jailing/etc drunk drivers could be used to pay for Ubers, let cops hand out tickets at clubs for people who came by car...
    "I am a bird"

  14. #12
    No victim, no crime. As far as death by motor vehicle there is already vehicular homocide or vehicular manslaughter laws. All that is needed is to prove criminal negligence.

    But, The NTSB is the government strong arm of M.A.D.D. An organization that has become full on prohibition oriented.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    Every morning when I drive to work (about 40mi/40min-1hr) I see (almost)-accidents.

    They usually happen in the same places. For instance, we have a highway with two lanes on either side, grass and barrier in the middle. Semi-trucks are driving on the right lane (only allowed to overtake on the left here). Then you get an entrance to the highway... People going to work with no patience at all, simply moving two lanes at low speed not looking at any faster traffic on the left lane. In many cases forcing the car on the left lane to brake very hard. There is one location here where there is a multi-car pile up at least 4-6 times a year due to this exact issue.

    Similarly, people do not keep their distance, which I understand because lots of people don't think while driving or don't care. Especially drivers of delivery vans seem to wanna kill themselves. They regularly just throw their vehicle in front of you. I've had them put on their indicators and just push me off the road, which is why I have dual dash cams in my car, front and back. I may even add two more to film 60degrees to the side from the back window, capturing most of what is happening besides me.

    I got the dash cams after I hit a barrier... Caused by someone not paying attention, who instead of smashing into the car in front of them, threw their car in front of me. I was doing the speed limit, this car was much slower... I had to slam on the brakes on a wet road to avoid the car but got some serious oversteer as a result and kissed the barrier (A nice scratch but as I can drive a little I avoided totalling my car) after which I resumed full control again. Not my mistake but as I did not hit the other car and they didn't stop afterwards, I can't claim anything at my insurance. Pretty sure I could if I had the video.
    I hear you, and i forgot to include the term 'impatient'
    drivers, also those that choose to try to teach
    a lesson for anyone that doesn't drive the way they
    want them to.
    Hitting that pylon in your situation is what i would
    call a true accident, not anything you could avoid,
    that falls into my 1% category.
    I give a couple flashes before committing to a turn
    when i can see it will benefit a driver behind me,
    especially coming off the hwy where there
    are no turn outs,
    most are smart enough to get it and either take
    advantage of the heads up and change lanes
    as is my intention, or if they're not in a hurry they just
    slow down noticeably to keep that safe distance
    and i get off the road quick as i can.


    *one hand typing 4 few days/weeks , no spell checkers & grammar police pleez .....



    .

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    I get that, I don't think reciting the alphabet backwards is a very good way to judge peoples capability towards driving.
    Cops aren't looking to see if you can recite the alphabet perfectly. They are seeing how much you slur and act drunk as you think about the next letter. People forget to act sober when they are concentrating on something else.
    ...

  17. #15
    When dealing with cops, don't get caught up in the games they play. That's a distraction from your goal. Your goal is to get out of that situation and say as little as possible.
    ...

  18. #16
    One thing that could cut down on accidents is intelligent
    fwy signage , for instance going into Vegas from
    the southeast is a terrible bumbling nightmare to
    anyone that hasn't gone through there b4
    they give no clue as to what lanes you need to be in
    to wind up on one of the 5 or 6 exchanges that you need
    to take ,all within 2 or 3 miles of each other at
    75 mph - - some courteous drivers and some that
    won't let you chnge lanes on a bet.
    All they need to do to correct the 'nightmare'
    is list the lane numbers adjacent to the exchanges;
    Lane 1,2 Utah 95
    lane 3 ,4 Sacramento 5
    lane 5, 6 San bernadino 15
    lane 7 downtown Vegas
    I remember back in parts of OC and LA, they had
    it all laid out perfectly so you didn't have to guess.

    *one hand typing 4 few days/weeks , no spell checkers & grammar police pleez .....
    .



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    , for instance going into Vegas from
    the southeast is a terrible bumbling nightmare to
    anyone that hasn't gone through there b4.
    This is off topic but I almost killed myself driving into Vegas after midnight. I drove all day and was hypnotized by the dark road, then all of the sudden there are frickin lights everywhere. I stopped at a green light, almost blew through a red. Pissed off a cab driver... and I was sober. Vegas is crazy when coming out of the quiet of the desert
    ...

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    One thing that could cut down on accidents is intelligent
    fwy signage , for instance going into Vegas from
    the southeast is a terrible bumbling nightmare to
    anyone that hasn't gone through there b4
    they give no clue as to what lanes you need to be in
    to wind up on one of the 5 or 6 exchanges that you need
    to take ,all within 2 or 3 miles of each other at
    75 mph - - some courteous drivers and some that
    won't let you chnge lanes on a bet.
    All they need to do to correct the 'nightmare'
    is list the lane numbers adjacent to the exchanges;
    Lane 1,2 Utah 95
    lane 3 ,4 Sacramento 5
    lane 5, 6 San bernadino 15
    lane 7 downtown Vegas
    I remember back in parts of OC and LA, they had
    it all laid out perfectly so you didn't have to guess.

    *one hand typing 4 few days/weeks , no spell checkers & grammar police pleez .....
    .
    Atlanta is a CF, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    No victim, no crime. As far as death by motor vehicle there is already vehicular homocide or vehicular manslaughter laws. All that is needed is to prove criminal negligence.

    But, The NTSB is the government strong arm of M.A.D.D. An organization that has become full on prohibition oriented.
    Indeed. The state creating laws that make themselves the victim is $#@!ed on so many levels. The more troubling realization is that 95% of the country is all “duhhhhhhh, if it can just save ONE life, then it’s all worth it”. A special place in hell.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    One thing that could cut down on accidents is intelligent
    fwy signage , for instance going into Vegas from
    the southeast is a terrible bumbling nightmare to
    anyone that hasn't gone through there b4
    they give no clue as to what lanes you need to be in
    to wind up on one of the 5 or 6 exchanges that you need
    to take ,all within 2 or 3 miles of each other at
    75 mph - - some courteous drivers and some that
    won't let you chnge lanes on a bet.
    All they need to do to correct the 'nightmare'
    is list the lane numbers adjacent to the exchanges;
    Lane 1,2 Utah 95
    lane 3 ,4 Sacramento 5
    lane 5, 6 San bernadino 15
    lane 7 downtown Vegas
    I remember back in parts of OC and LA, they had
    it all laid out perfectly so you didn't have to guess.

    *one hand typing 4 few days/weeks , no spell checkers & grammar police pleez .....
    .
    Amen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Atlanta is a CF, too.
    Been there, done it. CF for sure.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    Cops aren't looking to see if you can recite the alphabet perfectly. They are seeing how much you slur and act drunk as you think about the next letter. People forget to act sober when they are concentrating on something else.
    Don't even give a road side breathalyzer. Those things are notorious for false reads.

    My standard reply, and I did it about three weeks ago....

    "I'm sorry, I'm too old to dance like your monkey. If you want a breathalyzer you will have to take me to the station."

    I apparently wasn't worth much more of her time as she cautioned me about driving drunk or stoned and sent me on my way.

    Edit: I also presented my "lawyer on retainer card" along with my license.
    Last edited by phill4paul; 12-16-2018 at 08:42 AM.

  25. #22
    .015 seems a little more reasonable but it is already against the law to kill someone so ........
    Do something Danke

  26. #23
    .05 is basically just a backdoor ban and witch hunt for revenue from violations , it has nothing to do with safety and is only about statism . It is more or less about the same as retard east coast and kalifornia UnConstitutional weapons laws . There will be no improvement of safety just less freedom and in this case more dollars for them.
    Do something Danke

  27. #24
    Everything about these laws is retarded . Personally why I feel no moral obligation to observe any of them . Third degree felony for killing someone at .05 BAC ? That about the same charge as a quarter pound of weed there ?
    Do something Danke



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    I hear you, and i forgot to include the term 'impatient'
    drivers, also those that choose to try to teach
    a lesson for anyone that doesn't drive the way they
    want them to.
    Hitting that pylon in your situation is what i would
    call a true accident, not anything you could avoid,
    that falls into my 1% category.
    I give a couple flashes before committing to a turn
    when i can see it will benefit a driver behind me,
    especially coming off the hwy where there
    are no turn outs,
    most are smart enough to get it and either take
    advantage of the heads up and change lanes
    as is my intention, or if they're not in a hurry they just
    slow down noticeably to keep that safe distance
    and i get off the road quick as i can.


    *one hand typing 4 few days/weeks , no spell checkers & grammar police pleez .....



    .
    Don't worry about your spelling, you're perfectly readable.

    I don't know what to call it, I prevented a potential whiplash and much worse accident on the person causing it as I avoided their car. I like to drive, I like to drive in a little bit of a sporty way.. I use my indicators religiously, even if nobody is around, just a habit. I always try to be a social driver and I anticipate traffic like a motorcyclist, I don't assume people have seen me. I drive about 30.000miles a year through serious traffic for the past couple of years. Before that I drove a little less but I've never had any other accident beyond this experience. I never even made a scratch on my own or someone else car. I pay almost nothing for insurance as a result.

    P.S. I could post some dashcam footage of stuff I see. I don't ever save any of it and my dashcam only holds 1 day worth of driving (2hrs or so). Last week I almost downloaded some footage as someone passed me on a 40mph road at 80mph within a couple of inches of slamming head on into an oncoming semi. Which got me angry, I don't care about people killing themselves, but I do mind if they intend to take me with them or create a longer commute. You may notice I don't have too much empathy for people who want to risk everything for a few seconds of difference to their commute. I don't. I like driving but first and foremost is safety. First thing you learn on the German Autobahn, driving 150mph is to realise that people do stupid stuff and you have to minimise your exposure to that. In some cases, that means slowing down because you see a car behind a semi and they might pull in front of you... It's your own safety.
    Last edited by luctor-et-emergo; 12-16-2018 at 09:57 AM.
    "I am a bird"

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Don't even give a road side breathalyzer. Those things are notorious for false reads.

    My standard reply, and I did it about three weeks ago....

    "I'm sorry, I'm too old to dance like your monkey. If you want a breathalyzer you will have to take me to the station."

    I apparently wasn't worth much more of her time as she cautioned me about driving drunk or stoned and sent me on my way.

    Edit: I also presented my "lawyer on retainer card" along with my license.
    I've heard reports of drivers forced to keep blowin on that breathalyzer till they show
    over limit, like al gore , he wants a recount till he wins......

    -
    *one hand typing 4 few days/weeks , no spell checkers & grammar police pleez .....

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    This is off topic but I almost killed myself driving into Vegas after midnight. I drove all day and was hypnotized by the dark road, then all of the sudden there are frickin lights everywhere. I stopped at a green light, almost blew through a red. Pissed off a cab driver... and I was sober. Vegas is crazy when coming out of the quiet of the desert
    ha ha, they should give us an air raid siren 3mi before town, probably would do me no good now though
    I used to drive 4hrs into town , now 2hrs feels too much

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Atlanta is a CF, too.
    I believe it, probably lots of older infra structure, I don't think Vegas
    hasn't any kind of legit excuse.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    I believe it, probably lots of older infra structure, I don't think Vegas
    hasn't any kind of legit excuse.
    It's hilly so none of the roads are straight. It also doesn't help that most of them are called Peachtree.


    In fact, it is often joked by natives that half of the streets in Atlanta are named Peachtree, and the other half have five names to make up for it. While “Peachtree” alone almost always refers to this street or its continuations, there are 71 streets in Atlanta with a variant of “Peachtree” in their name.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peachtree_Street
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  34. #30
    Can Ocasio-Cortez give us all driverless cars for free?

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

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