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Thread: U.S. Senate Bails Out Dairy Industry With $1 Billion of Taxpayer Money

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    As for their use of the word responsible, I'd have to go check out the article to see the context. But most likely they were talking about how the animal industries are horrible in numerous ways, for example the tons of water and food it takes to feed livestock, the astronomical amount of waste (yes, actual $#@!) that ends up polluting lakes and causing all sorts of other problems, the disease, the chemicals used to treat the diseases, etc. etc.
    Modern agriculture is equally as harmful as keeping livestock: cancer causing glyphosate, petroleum based fertilizers, DNA warping GMO franenplants, fertilizer run off causing fish kills and algae blooms, soil depletion, pesticides and so on.

    One is no more "responsible" than the other.

    I reject the term out of hand, it's a SJW term designed to shame you into doing what they want, as if my desire to own a computer is somehow "responsible" for kids climbing over $#@!heaps of toxic computer waste in Ghana to scavenge shreds of copper and gold from waste electronics.

    My "responsibility" goes only so far as to pay the producer the agreed upon price for any commodity, item, goods or service.

    Beyond that, if I do not want to do business with a producer for whatever reason, that is my choice.

    But it is not my responsibility.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Modern agriculture is equally as harmful as keeping livestock: cancer causing glyphosate, petroleum based fertilizers, DNA warping GMO franenplants, fertilizer run off causing fish kills and algae blooms, soil depletion, pesticides and so on.

    One is no more "responsible" than the other.

    I reject the term out of hand, it's a SJW term designed to shame you into doing what they want, as if my desire to own a computer is somehow "responsible" for kids climbing over $#@!heaps of toxic computer waste in Ghana to scavenge shreds of copper and gold from waste electronics.

    My "responsibility" goes only so far as to pay the producer the agreed upon price for any commodity, item, goods or service.

    Beyond that, if I do not want to do business with a producer for whatever reason, that is my choice.

    But it is not my responsibility.
    I hope you're not assuming that just because someone is against the animal industries that automatically means they are for "modern agriculture." Vegans who care about the environment are always looking for sustainable ways of doing things, that cause the least harm to this world. Many of them support buying locally from small farms… or growing their own food. But the fact of the matter is that the animal industries are the worst, on a number of levels.

    And you don't have to be so defensive. Of course it's your choice to do business with who you want. But that doesn't mean that others don't have the right to speak out and bring awareness to these cruel, selfish industries. While we are free to choose our actions, we are not always free to choose the consequences.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Too often they replace it with Soy "milk" which is terribly unhealthy.
    Ya , what the hell is Soy milk ? I have cut a lot of weeds by hand out of bean fields and I have never seen titties on a soy bean plant .

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    I hope you're not assuming that just because someone is against the animal industries that automatically means they are for "modern agriculture." Vegans who care about the environment are always looking for sustainable ways of doing things, that cause the least harm to this world. Many of them support buying locally from small farms… or growing their own food. But the fact of the matter is that the animal industries are the worst, on a number of levels.

    And you don't have to be so defensive. Of course it's your choice to do business with who you want. But that doesn't mean that others don't have the right to speak out and bring awareness to these cruel, selfish industries. While we are free to choose our actions, we are not always free to choose the consequences.
    I'm having a conversation, nothing defensive about it.

  7. #35
    I made this for the crew once, this exact recipe.

    I got a round of applause.


  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I made this for the crew once, this exact recipe.

    I got a round of applause.

    Last edited by lilymc; 02-18-2018 at 06:21 PM.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Ya , what the hell is Soy milk ? I have cut a lot of weeds by hand out of bean fields and I have never seen titties on a soy bean plant .
    One of my daughters couldn't consume cow goodness, so I had to feed her soy milk, made it myself. Too strapped to buy the store stuff back then. Poor kid.
    "The Patriarch"

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    Bees are the best. If there was one north american animal I would protect, it would be the honey bees.
    Liger, bro.

    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I made this for the crew once, this exact recipe.

    I got a round of applause.
    RECIPE? Well oo-la-la Mr. French man.

    h0m0
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Liger, bro.

    What do Ligers secrete?



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    That's what we've always been told, but studies have shown that dairy is linked to an increased risk of certain type of cancer. Plus you've got pus cells in milk, and in some cases, parasites.

    Also, even on the small, so called "humane" farms, the baby cows are still torn away from their mother… Usually at one day old. That is standard practice. And it's a cruel practice. Why be a part of causing suffering when you don't have to?
    Milk Myths Debunked: Dairy is Scary – or Not?
    February 8th, 2016

    By: Julaine Treur

    Over the past few months, a new video about the dairy industry has been floating around the internet. Titled “Dairy is F*ing Scary” it purports to show that dairy farming is cruel and inhumane. Erin Janus glibly rattles off dozens of myths about and misrepresentations of the dairy industry, while horrific images flash over the screen. I’ve watched the video numerous times, all the while shaking my head at the blatant lies gleefully rattling off this woman’s tongue. At the request of one of my blog readers, I’d like to try to address the claims Ms. Janus makes.

    -Calves are stolen from their mothers so that humans can drink the milk meant for the calf, and the mother cries for days in search of her baby.Calves are left with their mothers for a period of time after birth.

    This amount of time varies, and it depends on how well the mother cares for her calf. The truth is, many dairy cows don’t have much of a mothering instinct. Sad as it may sound, farmers can often do a better job taking care of a calf than a dairy cow can! I’ve seen cows neglect or ignore their calf, and we’ve even had some cows attack their calves! After some time has passed (usually between 24 and 48 hours on our farm) the calf is moved to the nursery where he/she is provided plenty of milk/colostrum from the mother cow; fresh, clean, soft bedding, and lots of love and attention from our family. Because of the high level of trust between us and the mother cow, which is generated by the level of care she has received her entire life on our farm, she does NOT cry for her calf, instead, she’ll usually continue eating or laying down when we move her calf. Neither does the calf cry for her mother, she’s perfectly content in her new surroundings. On our farm, and on all of the many farms I’ve visited, calves are fed their mother’s first milk via bottle and then milk from the herd by pail or nipple bucket as they grow older. As I have stated above, a dairy cow can produce much more milk than her calf can drink. Farmers take absolute care to make sure that the calves drink enough colostrum in the first hours after they are born. This can be difficult to judge if a calf is nursing, which is why most farm will supplement with extra bottle fed colostrum even if the calf is nursing from the mother within a few hours after birth to make sure the calf gets enough of this high calorie wonder food that is full of essential antibodies. (Colostrum is never shipped to the processor, if a cow has too much for her calf, it is frozen to feed to other calves whose mothers may not have sufficient amounts for their own calf.) After the first few days, calves are given whole milk from the herd as opposed to colostrum. Most farms wean the calves from milk around 2-3 months of age, onto a diet of hay, grains and other forages as their digestive systems mature. But what about the horrific clips shown of cows chasing after their calves that are being dragged away by a cruel farmer or cows bellowing loudly? Unfortunately, just like in all walks of life, the dairy industry does have some bad apples. These clips are awful examples of bad cow management practices. However, this does not mean that things like this happen on all farms. Abuse does happen; it is not the norm, but the very rare exception. Cows will bellow for many reasons, including for food, in unfamiliar situations, and when they are in heat (their fertile period). Without showing the context of why these cows are vocalizing, Ms. Janus lets the reader assume that these cows are crying for their babies, while this very probably is not the case! Who do you think is more of an expert on farming, a vlogger who has likely never set foot on a farm or a real life family farmer?
    More here:
    https://www.dairyfarmers.ca/farmers-...s-scary-or-not
    There is no spoon.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Liger, bro.

    Ligers are totally cool.
    There is no spoon.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Milk Myths Debunked: Dairy is Scary – or Not?
    February 8th, 2016

    By: Julaine Treur

    Over the past few months, a new video about the dairy industry has been floating around the internet. Titled “Dairy is F*ing Scary” it purports to show that dairy farming is cruel and inhumane. Erin Janus glibly rattles off dozens of myths about and misrepresentations of the dairy industry, while horrific images flash over the screen. I’ve watched the video numerous times, all the while shaking my head at the blatant lies gleefully rattling off this woman’s tongue. At the request of one of my blog readers, I’d like to try to address the claims Ms. Janus makes.



    More here:
    https://www.dairyfarmers.ca/farmers-...s-scary-or-not
    good info, however the commenters on that blog post are insane.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    All food products carry some risk.

    That said, I do not think dairy products are unhealthy, I find that to be a false statement.

    I think the "alternatives" may have greater health risks, which I backed up with charts showing declining life spans and increased obesity and diabetes as simple, wholesome dairy, meats and cheeses are replaced by frankenfoods, "macroorganics" and other heavily processed "alternatives" to these simple, safe and tasty food choices that have been feeding mankind for 50,000 years.

    And what, exactly does "responsible" mean?

    If not outright false, it is very ambiguous and shadowy in meaning.
    The reason milk sales have been in decline is because milk produced by factory farms doesn't taste very good. Cows were designed and bred over millenia to wander grassy fields. Take these cows and put them on concrete pads where they stand all day eating grains laced with antibiotics on one end and $#@!ting into a trough on the other and it should be no surprise that milk quality has suffered. Why the antibiotics? Because these cows are sick all the time from the unnatural diet. Why the grain? Because it boost milk production. The farmer doesn't care that these cows live half as long as their pastured equivalent because they will soon be featured at McDonalds.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Milk Myths Debunked: Dairy is Scary – or Not?
    February 8th, 2016

    By: Julaine Treur

    Over the past few months, a new video about the dairy industry has been floating around the internet. Titled “Dairy is F*ing Scary” it purports to show that dairy farming is cruel and inhumane. Erin Janus glibly rattles off dozens of myths about and misrepresentations of the dairy industry, while horrific images flash over the screen. I’ve watched the video numerous times, all the while shaking my head at the blatant lies gleefully rattling off this woman’s tongue. At the request of one of my blog readers, I’d like to try to address the claims Ms. Janus makes.



    More here:
    https://www.dairyfarmers.ca/farmers-...s-scary-or-not
    Your source is dairy farmers.ca? That is their way of life and livelihood…what do you expect they’re going to say?

    I didn’t read anything past the BS line about mothers not having much motherly instinct. Not only is that demonstrably untrue, but it is very deceptive because what they’re failing to mention is that when you continue to take calves away from mothers over and over and over again, don’t you think eventually something is going to happen? I’m sure there’s some psychological issue going on there, due to that repeated cruelty of stealing their babies.

    It seems to me that people want to rationalize all this, in order to avoid making changes. I know, because I was there before. I remember when I used to eat meat and dairy, I would rationalize it by saying very similar things to what you’re saying. Now I see it completely differently, and I’m sad that I purposely failed to truly look into it, for many years… perhaps on some level knowing I wouldn’t like what I find. Coincidently, my sig is about this very issue.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I made this for the crew once, this exact recipe.

    I got a round of applause.

    I will not eat veal because of the cruel way they live their short lives.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


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  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    I will not eat veal because of the cruel way they live their short lives.
    You are a very sensitive man.
    "The Patriarch"

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    You are a very sensitive man.

    To a fault.

    The human tongue is one of the most important yet least understood structures of the body. One reason for the relative lack of research on the human tongue is its complex anatomy.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3687025/
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Your source is dairy farmers.ca? That is their way of life and livelihood…what do you expect they’re going to say?
    .
    Yeah, totally. I mean, when I want the facts or truth about something, the last person I'm going to listen to is somebody that actually is involved in the industry and lives it every single day. What do those people know? I'd rather believe a blogger with an agenda.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Yeah, totally. I mean, when I want the facts or truth about something, the last person I'm going to listen to is somebody that actually is involved in the industry and lives it every single day. What do those people know? I'd rather believe a blogger with an agenda.
    Exactly.

    And, I have worked with natural dairy farmers that treat their animals with great care. I am very particular about healthy natural living and respect for all life.

    And @lilymc, I hate to tell you, but they are discovering that plants have intelligence too. Better think how your little vegan eatable friends are also being treated.

    The Secret Life of Plant Perception: Plants Can See, Hear, Smell, Feel, React, and Think
    Plant senses don’t work the same as human senses, but generally speaking, plants can see, hear, smell, feel, react, and even think. Below we discuss plant senses and plant perception.

    Understanding Plant Senses, Plant Intelligence, and Plant Perception

    Plants have a wide range of senses and can react to phenomena like chemicals, gravity, pressure, light, moisture, infections, temperature, oxygen and carbon dioxide concentrations, parasite infestation, disease, physical disruption, sound, and touch.[1]

    Plants use their cells the way we use our eyes, ears, mouth, and nose. They pick up electrochemical signals from the environment (feeling and sensing) and then process that information (thinking), releasing hormones and electrochemical signals, which causes the plant to react.

    In other words, plants can sense, feel, think, and react based on sensory input. That process doesn’t work exactly the same as it does with humans, but it is analogous in many ways.

    FACT: All organisms have senses, not just plants. Mushrooms and bacteria are also living organisms with sensory perception.


    Can plants think?

    Examples of Plant Senses
    Some plants can use one cell to focus light into another cell, and then process that information and use it to react to the environment (for example to grow toward the sunlight).[2] Is that “seeing”? Speaking loosely, we can argue yes, even though photoreceptors don’t work the same way in humans and plants.

    We have the same argument for smells, sounds, and touch.

    For example, some plants can sense insects on their leaves and retract their leaves as a defense mechanism.
    Likewise, some small flowering plants can “hear” themselves being chewed by sensing vibrations, triggering a chemical defense as a response.[3]

    Likewise, fruiting plants can “smell” the chemical pheromone ethylene (a small hydrocarbon gas) produced by rotting fruit and react by ripening its fruits faster, so all fruits ripen at the same time.[4]

    Plants can even communicate with other organisms, like the mushroom. For example, trees communicate with each other across distances by passing messages through their roots and along underground webs of fungal growth. So, not only is a plant reacting to its environment via its senses, some are capable of interspecies communication.
    http://factmyth.com/factoids/plants-have-senses/
    There is no spoon.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    To a fault.

    The human tongue is one of the most important yet least understood structures of the body. One reason for the relative lack of research on the human tongue is its complex anatomy.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3687025/
    Are you trying to tell me something in a roundabout way? You can be honest, I wont make fun of you.
    "The Patriarch"

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Exactly.

    And, I have worked with natural dairy farmers that treat their animals with great care. I am very particular about healthy natural living and respect for all life.

    And @lilymc, I hate to tell you, but they are discovering that plants have intelligence too. Better think how your little vegan eatable friends are also being treated.


    http://factmyth.com/factoids/plants-have-senses/

    Rationalizing. Of course there are some small farms that treat animals better than factory farms. But as they didn’t even deny, even on the small farms they take the babies away from the mothers, and the males are sold (or in some countries killed at a very young age, treated as garbage.) Dairy is a horrible industry and more more people are realizing that. That’s why the whole industry is dying, that’s why they needed to be bailed out.

    As for the absolutely asinine thing about plants, you brought that up before… You are way too smart to post things like that. God gave us fruits and veggies to eat, that is their purpose. It is either retarded or very very dishonest to compare slicing into an apple with slicing into a pig or cow.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Exactly.

    And, I have worked with natural dairy farmers that treat their animals with great care. I am very particular about healthy natural living and respect for all life.

    And @lilymc, I hate to tell you, but they are discovering that plants have intelligence too. Better think how your little vegan eatable friends are also being treated.



    http://factmyth.com/factoids/plants-have-senses/
    Plants babies don't have big eyes and large foreheads, bro.

    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Yeah, totally. I mean, when I want the facts or truth about something, the last person I'm going to listen to is somebody that actually is involved in the industry and lives it every single day. What do those people know? I'd rather believe a blogger with an agenda.
    There are numerous former dairy farmers who could no longer do it and ended up going vegan, who are now saying something very different than this Canadian farm.

    But if you would rather believe the ones who want to continue making a profit and not have their industry tarnished, then go right ahead.

    I'll stick with actual video footage anyone can see online, as well as numerous people who either grew up in that environment or worked as dairy farmers for years, who are telling it like it is.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Rationalizing. Of course there are some small farms that treat animals better than factory farms. But as they didn’t even deny, even on the small farms they take the babies away from the mothers, and the males are sold (or in some countries killed at a very young age, treated as garbage.) Dairy is a horrible industry and more more people are realizing that. That’s why the whole industry is dying, that’s why they needed to be bailed out.

    As for the absolutely asinine thing about plants, you brought that up before… You are way too smart to post things like that. God gave us fruits and veggies to eat, that is their purpose. It is either retarded or very very dishonest to compare slicing into an apple with slicing into a pig or cow.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    I will not eat veal because of the cruel way they live their short lives.
    You don't want to be around if I get a mess of live clams and lobsters then...



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    RECIPE? Well oo-la-la Mr. French man.

    h0m0
    No h0m0


  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Rationalizing. Of course there are some small farms that treat animals better than factory farms. But as they didn’t even deny, even on the small farms they take the babies away from the mothers, and the males are sold (or in some countries killed at a very young age, treated as garbage.) Dairy is a horrible industry and more more people are realizing that. That’s why the whole industry is dying, that’s why they needed to be bailed out.

    As for the absolutely asinine thing about plants, you brought that up before… You are way too smart to post things like that. God gave us fruits and veggies to eat, that is their purpose. It is either retarded or very very dishonest to compare slicing into an apple with slicing into a pig or cow.
    Just because you don't relate to a plant like a cat or dog, does not mean they don't have feelings- they do. Think about that next time you down some veggies.

    As for God:

    And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he (Jesus) asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate it in their presence. (Luke 41-43)
    Though the Bible isn’t a book about diet, there is an entire chapter in the Old Testament that could be labeled the Bible’s version of “Eat This, Not That.”

    Leviticus 11 devotes 47 verses to help us make a distinction “between the animal that may be eaten [eat this] and the animal that may not be eaten [not that]” (Leviticus 11:47). Additional guidance is also given in Deuteronomy 14. The Bible labels these “clean” and “unclean” meats.

    Here’s an overview of what Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14 teach us:

    Clean mammals have a divided hoof and chew their cud. This means animals like cattle, goats and deer were created to be eaten, but mammals like pigs and rodents were not.

    Clean fish have fins and scales. This means fish like cod, salmon, trout and tuna are fine for human consumption, but other water creatures like lobsters, shrimp, crab and catfish are not.

    Clean birds include chicken, turkey, duck and quail. Unclean birds include vultures, seagulls, hawks and eagles.
    There is no spoon.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Just because you don't relate to a plant like a cat or dog, does not mean they don't have feelings- they do. Think about that next time you down some veggies.

    As for God:

    OK, I see you’re joking now.

    As for the Scriptures, I was specifically talking about God‘s original purpose and design. Animals were not designed to be food. Fruits and veggies and food from the ground was. There is absolutely no denying that, it’s right there in the first chapter of the first book of the Bible. God‘s original design was a plant-based diet, and God‘s ultimate plan is a restoration of that original peace and harmony we had for short time in the garden of Eden. Everything in between is this fallen world and God gave us over to the things we wanted, but that doesn’t mean it was His idea or that He likes it.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  35. #60
    This is a really good video, I highly recommend taking the time to watch it.

    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

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