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Thread: Our Economy Is Failing Our Society

  1. #1

    Our Economy Is Failing Our Society

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...ng-our-society

    Authored by Charles Hugh Smith via OfTwoMinds blog,

    If we want to extend the opportunities for positive social roles to everyone, we have to change the way money is created and distributed in our economy.



    One of the most unrecognized dynamics of our era is the structural dependence of our society on our economy. One set of pundits, politicos and academics wring their hands over the fragmenting of civil society (the rise of disintegrative, divisive forces and the decay of integrative forces) and decry the rising inequality that is our economy's dominant feature, while another set of pundits and academics celebrate the economy's remarkable adaptability or focus solely on reading financial tea leaves (interest rates, Fed policy tweaks, unemployment rates, etc.)

    Those few analysts who escape their respective silos/academic ghettos rarely get past generalities such as the erosion of social mobility, a dynamic that is clearly economic and social. But the precise mechanisms behind the secular erosion of social mobility are lost in platitudes about how A.I. and robots will free us all to be poets or consumers of a vast and endlessly enjoyable leisure.

    The key understanding that's lacking is that economic structures organize and limit the social structures underpinning civil society. To understand why civil society is disintegrating on so many fronts (public health, civil discourse, etc.), we must understand how our economy has failed to support the social structures required for an integrative, inclusive civil society.

    Our economy is transforming/adapting as a result of powerful secular trends: the 4th Industrial Revolution (a.k.a. the digital-networked-AI-Big-Data revolution), globalization, the commoditization of ordinary capital and labor, the financial and political dominance of quasi-monopolies and cartels, and perhaps the most unrecognized dynamic, the devaluation of ordinary capital and labor in favor of scarce and often rarified forms of capital and labor in the fields of technology, entrepreneurship and finance.

    Collectively, these profound structural changes have created a winner take most economy that favors the politically connected, the privileged (i.e. those who are already wealthy, powerful or holding privileged positions) and those few who have mastered scarce skills in financialization, technology and entrepreneurship.

    Everyone below this class has seen their income stagnate or decline, and their household wealth erode unless they happened to own homes in skyrocketing markets or happened to have stock options or some other substantial (and relatively rare) ownership of income-producing assets such as a profitable family business.

    My analysis of IRS income found that at most a few million households out of America's 130 million households have productive assets (i.e. assets that generate net income) that aren't tied to asset-bubbles in real estate and stocks. Once those bubbles pop (and all asset bubbles eventually pop), then the millions of households who reckoned their bubble-era wealth was a permanent feature of their lives will discover that bubble-era "wealth" is temporary, a phantom sort of wealth that vanishes as quickly as it arose.

    ... (more info at source link at top)



    ...
    Full article at link.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.



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  3. #2
    So do we need to take money from the Rich and give it to the Poor?

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    So do we need to take money from the Rich and give it to the Poor?
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    He needs to stop using these:



    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    So do we need to take money from the Rich and give it to the Poor?


    Maybe or reduce the taxes on the Poor to nothing while necessarily increasing taxes on the very wealthy including reducing their loopholes or write offs.

    I don't think switching to hard commodity currency like Gold will make a difference.
    Last edited by VIDEODROME; 05-21-2018 at 07:27 PM.

  7. #6
    (i.e. those who are already wealthy, powerful or holding privileged positions) and those few who have mastered scarce skills in financialization, technology and entrepreneurship.
    Except those things aren't scarce. Information on those subjects is abundant and free on the webbernets. Webbernet access is cheap and/or free across income levels. Gonna have to do better than this, Mr Article Writer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  8. #7
    I view society to be synonymous with the economy or rather, markets. However, the state has failed society at every opportunity.
    Last edited by Henry Rogue; 05-21-2018 at 08:12 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyRey View Post
    Do you think it's a coincidence that the most cherished standard of the Ron Paul campaign was a sign highlighting the word "love" inside the word "revolution"? A revolution not based on love is a revolution doomed to failure. So, at the risk of sounding corny, I just wanted to let you know that, wherever you stand on any of these hot-button issues, and even if we might have exchanged bitter words or harsh sentiments in the past, I love each and every one of you - no exceptions!

    "When goods do not cross borders, soldiers will." Frederic Bastiat

    Peace.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    Maybe or reduce the taxes on the Poor to nothing while necessarily increasing taxes on the very wealthy including reducing their loopholes or write offs.

    I don't think switching to hard commodity currency like Gold will make a difference.
    There are many other solutions, don't fall for the idea that gives the powers that created the problem more power.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    So do we need to take money from the Rich and give it to the Poor?
    How about a flat tax of 50% on everyone.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    Maybe or reduce the taxes on the Poor to nothing while necessarily increasing taxes on the very wealthy including reducing their loopholes or write offs.

    I don't think switching to hard commodity currency like Gold will make a difference.
    As Ron Paul said, Inflation is a Hidden and Cumulative Tax. THAT is the tax that needs to be reduced because it is that very tax that enables the rich to get rich.

    Gold by itself will not make the difference as long as our current money system with fractional reserve lending and loopholes and tax breaks only for the rich stay in place. Gold was intended to prevent govt from causing Inflation.

    Dont worry, Zippy will say that printing money out of nothing and lending it to someone has RISK if that person doesnt pay the money back. There never was any risk if the money was created out of nothing but a borrowers promise to pay.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  13. #11
    If Zippy comes through again, I'm curious about any thoughts on Inflation affecting the cost of Products, Food, Housing, yet seemingly not Human Labor which then falls behind. Hey the dollar is inflating so my wages should be going up, but that doesn't happen. Costs of Services are going up, but I provide a service to dammit.

    Or is Inflation having an effect on the cost of labor and services, but it's bizarrely skewed in favor of upper income people. Maybe so much that some of them are even ahead of the 'Inflation Rate' with absurdly high executive compensation?


    I'm not sure Fractional Reserve Banking or even FIAT currency is the real underlying problem, though FIAT might make the problem more noticeable or exaggerate it.

    I'd also wonder if Zippy might consider us to be in a Technology driven Gilded Age in which case The Gold Standard wouldn't be any help anyway or might make things even worse.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    If Zippy comes through again, I'm curious about any thoughts on Inflation affecting the cost of Products, Food, Housing, yet seemingly not Human Labor which then falls behind. Hey the dollar is inflating so my wages should be going up, but that doesn't happen. Costs of Services are going up, but I provide a service to dammit.

    Or is Inflation having an effect on the cost of labor and services, but it's bizarrely skewed in favor of upper income people. Maybe so much that some of them are even ahead of the 'Inflation Rate' with absurdly high executive compensation?


    I'm not sure Fractional Reserve Banking or even FIAT currency is the real underlying problem, though FIAT might make the problem more noticeable or exaggerate it.

    I'd also wonder if Zippy might consider us to be in a Technology driven Gilded Age in which case The Gold Standard wouldn't be any help anyway or might make things even worse.
    Where did the benefits from technology- which has allowed us to increase output of goods per person or per man hour of labor? These benefits can go any of three places. One is lower prices. One is higher wages to workers. The third is to the owners of capital- the heads of the company or their share holders. Wages have been flat so it isn't going there. Prices haven't gone down much. On the other hand, corporate profits and income of the wealthy have soared. That has led to a rising gap in wealth and income in society. They have reaped the benefits. Unions used to try to gain a bigger share for workers but unions have also declined significantly. A business wants to maximize their own profits so they want to keep waged (their main cost) as low as possible. Until the mid 1970's, the gains of production were shared much more equally.





    Using gold for money won't change that. Not allowing banks to loan out money (ending fractional reserve banking) won't change that.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    That has led to a rising gap in wealth and income in society.

    You can thank big government for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Where did the benefits from technology- which has allowed us to increase output of goods per person or per man hour of labor? These benefits can go any of three places. One is lower prices. One is higher wages to workers. The third is to the owners of capital- the heads of the company or their share holders. Wages have been flat so it isn't going there. Prices haven't gone down much. On the other hand, corporate profits and income of the wealthy have soared. That has led to a rising gap in wealth and income in society. They have reaped the benefits. Unions used to try to gain a bigger share for workers but unions have also declined significantly. A business wants to maximize their own profits so they want to keep waged (their main cost) as low as possible. Until the mid 1970's, the gains of production were shared much more equally.





    Using gold for money won't change that. Not allowing banks to loan out money (ending fractional reserve banking) won't change that.

    I agree with Zippy.

    This makes sense. I think End the Fed has been an unfortunate distraction and I wonder if Ron Paul could have gained more traction by not being a Gold Bug dwelling on hard currency and focusing more on foreign policy and anti-corruption.

    So after identifying the basic issues, what solutions would you suggest? I do think there have been cases of heavy handed Union busting so is there a role for government to see if there are gross violation of the labor contract? I also wonder if some Union stewards could be in a conflict of interest being to willing to appease management.

    Should we consider a gradual increase in the national minimum wage? Maybe explore UBI, but also very gradually as we face the challenges of automation.

    I liked Ron Paul's idea of Tax Free Tips.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    I agree with Zippy.

    This makes sense. I think End the Fed has been an unfortunate distraction and I wonder if Ron Paul could have gained more traction by not being a Gold Bug dwelling on hard currency and focusing more on foreign policy and anti-corruption.

    So after identifying the basic issues, what solutions would you suggest? I do think there have been cases of heavy handed Union busting so is there a role for government to see if there are gross violation of the labor contract? I also wonder if some Union stewards could be in a conflict of interest being to willing to appease management.

    Should we consider a gradual increase in the national minimum wage? Maybe explore UBI, but also very gradually as we face the challenges of automation.

    I liked Ron Paul's idea of Tax Free Tips.
    The elite have the power to hoard the wealth because of government regulation and fiat money, they keep them from having any competition and allow the government to give them corporate welfare.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #16
    I'm not sure Fiat really matters as much as concentrated wealth in any form wether FRNs or Gold.

    Didn't the Gold Standard itself have be saved by JP Morgan at one point? That seems like a very unstable situation if the U.S. can loose Gold internationally.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    I'm not sure Fiat really matters as much as concentrated wealth in any form wether FRNs or Gold.
    Fiat allows them to effortlessly steal from everyone else without anyone even understanding how it happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    Didn't the Gold Standard itself have be saved by JP Morgan at one point? That seems like a very unstable situation if the U.S. can loose Gold internationally.
    A manipulated crisis made possible by the rest of their bag of tricks, it would have solved itself if left alone.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #18
    The state has:

    A - Done everything in its power to hamstring and hinder the building of industry that creates good paying, middle class jobs.

    B - Increased the tax burden on a family of four from roughly ten percent to roughly fifty percent or greater.

    C - Finger $#@!ed the fiat dollar and interest rates to the point it is impossible to save for any large expenditure, thus putting everybody on an endless debt hamster wheel, while making the banksters trillions in fees and interest.

    And then we sit around and wonder why everybody is broke, has no savings, suffers from stagnant or declining wages, is hopelessly in debt and has to have the whole house at work to pay the bills?

  22. #19
    The percentage of rich people in any country represent the past economic opportunities.

    The percentage of Middle Class people in any country represent the future economic opportunities.

    What that means is that the rich got rich because opportunity had existed. Those people climbed ladders, up to a middle class, and continuing on to rich status. The Middle Class represents the future. If there is no Middle Class, then in the future, there will be fewer rich people. It also represents a lack of opportunity.

    Our Middle Class is gone. The cost of our educational and medical systems are so high that they have become barriers to even staying where you are. That debt is holding back the Millennials from buying houses, cars, and starting families. People are still dropping out of the Middle Class because of skyhigh costs of everything that no one can afford. Drugs that cost $40 in Canada cost $40,000 here, and none of that money went to drug research. We are experiencing another Housing Boom that no one seems to notice. The good paying non disposable jobs that pay enough to enable a person to stay in the Middle Class are almost non existent. Our education has become Job Training instead of a form of affordable learning. We have a legal system that authorizes plunder, and a moral system that glorifies it.

    If we continue our current course, we wont just experience an economic crash, we will become the laughing stock of the world until the end of eternity, just as Rome at its end spiraled out of control. Our Money System has been replaced several times, off of the Gold Standard, allowing fractional reserve lending, and other lesser mentioned events, such as repealing Glass Steagall Act, and blurring the lines between Investment Banking and Investment Banking. Wall Street is Gambling for the rich. Hell, even the definition of a Corporation is Personal Profit without Personal Responsibility.

    "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.... I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

    But no one bothers to spread words of wisdom, or even bother to listen in the real life versions of tl;dr, or too long didnt read, or too long didnt listen.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  23. #20
    The Reagan tax cuts, the Bush Tax Cuts, and now the Trump tax cuts have been adding to the gap between the wealthy and the rest by giving them the lions share of those reductions.

    Couple more charts:



    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 05-23-2018 at 03:43 PM.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Fiat allows them to effortlessly steal from everyone else without anyone even understanding how it happened.



    A manipulated crisis made possible by the rest of their bag of tricks, it would have solved itself if left alone.
    Fiat means whatever the government declares is to be used as money. Even a gold standard is fiat though some people expand the definition of fiat to mean a currency not backed by anything. (Dollars are backed by everything in the economy- not just gold).

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Fiat means whatever the government declares is to be used as money. Even a gold standard is fiat though some people expand the definition of fiat to mean a currency not backed by anything. (Dollars are backed by everything in the economy- not just gold).
    Fiat means money with no inherent value that can be produced in unlimited quantities in order to steal value from those who hold it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Fiat means money with no inherent value that can be produced in unlimited quantities in order to steal value from those who hold it.
    Zip's actually right on this one. Gold/sliver eagles and the pre-FED 100% metallic standard notes were/are fiat currency. Fiat means money that is so because the government says it is so. You're thinking of unbacked paper money/scrip.
    Last edited by heavenlyboy34; 05-24-2018 at 04:36 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Zip's actually right on this one. Gold/sliver eagles and the pre-FED 100% metallic standard notes were/are fiat currency.
    No, gold and silver have inherent value and can't be produced in unlimited amounts at the whim of the government, they were used for money long before legal tender laws existed.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    No, gold and silver have inherent value and can't be produced in unlimited amounts at the whim of the government, they were used for money long before legal tender laws existed.
    That's false. Austrian Value Theory proves this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  30. #26
    dollars aren't backed by economy. it's backed by endless debt and the power to tax. The economy props up the dollar because it is fiat.
    Last edited by kfarnan; 05-24-2018 at 05:26 PM.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    That's false. Austrian Value Theory proves this.
    How? People placed value on precious metals for thousands of years and they have industrial uses as well as decorative uses.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    How? People placed value on precious metals for thousands of years and they have industrial uses as well as decorative uses.
    AToV says value is subjective. You really ought to learn this $#@! before trying to blather about it on forums.

    https://mises.org/library/subjective-value-theory
    https://mises.org/library/austrian-s...d-theory-value
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    AToV says value is subjective. You really ought to learn this $#@! before trying to blather about it on forums.

    https://mises.org/library/subjective-value-theory
    https://mises.org/library/austrian-s...d-theory-value
    And people have subjectively assigned value to gold and silver that they don't assign to paper, when gold and silver were replaced as currency they still had value, FRNs won't.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And people have subjectively assigned value to gold and silver that they don't assign to paper, when gold and silver were replaced as currency they still had value, FRNs won't.
    Not true. That's why metallic standard-based bills came about. People *tend* strongly to prefer carrying paper in their wallets over coins. FRNs have value to the extent that other people want them. (Even your gold can be said to have no value if nobody but you wants to accept your gold as payment, barter, etc)
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

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