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Thread: How to bring the cities to heel

  1. #1

    How to bring the cities to heel

    Been mulling this over for quite a while...

    Counties have the authority to inspect/restrict freight that travels on roads in their jurisdiction. "Inspection" could often times take weeks due to backlogs and underfunding..

    We must keep the overloards in the cities safe afterall....

    Crops fail.

    Access to "covid infected" slaughter houses is quite dangerous, especially during the extra cold or extra hot months, best to slack off on animal production for large scale consumption.

    Power generation...................Must travel on lines traversing over leased ground.....Local judges could easily permit new leases due to an unstable economy.

    I'm sure there are more....



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  3. #2
    I've thought about this issue for a long time. Unfortunately, it's not an easy problem to solve. But let's explore some roots.

    Why do people want government? To protect their interests? In population dense communities, you fear your neighbors, so you ask government to restrict their liberties. In rural communities, your fears are more external. You fear obtrusive government or other nations. You want the government to leave you alone, but to protect you from "outsiders".

    Is there an opportunity there?

    Why do people accept living so closely packed? I think they're probably drawn by the wealth. The opportunities in cities are FAR greater than in rural communities because there are so many potential trading partners. Can telecommuting change that? It's still helpful to be close to the wealth.

    Where do cities derive their wealth? I think it's clear that it's trade. Wealth increases each time 2 parties make an exchange and become better off from it. Cities grow where those microscopic trades happen over and over again. That's why cities arise near trading ports or rail intersections. Even the wealth in rural communities funnels its way through the cities. Agorism might work, but you'd need it on a scale that would reduce the overall wealth of the entire globe.

    Any way to reduce the wealth of cities and move it to rural communities? Housing is cheaper in rural communities, if people work remotely, it doesn't matter where they live... But they still want access to all the entertainment and conveniences of city living.

    Political power: Cities get power because of how many people they represent. Would it be possible to change the representation model from just the number of people to something like a scaling percentage based on density? Seems like a nonstarter since no one is ever going to vote for something that reduces their influence.

    But if you can't beat 'em, can you at least find a way to redirect some wealth from the cities to the rural communities that support them? I think that's where you were headed. Starve them of resources for awhile. I'm not sure that works, but worth exploring more.

    All in all, something needs to be done. Maybe wall them off and let their own governments ruin them?
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post

    All in all, something needs to be done. Maybe wall them off and let their own governments ruin them?
    A bit overt but I certainly approve!

    Try as I may, I can't think of any issues in the world today that aren't made worse by clumping people together and then giving them authority over those who won't clump-up.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    A bit overt but I certainly approve!

    Try as I may, I can't think of any issues in the world today that aren't made worse by clumping people together and then giving them authority over those who won't clump-up.
    I mean, I think that's the heart of all of our issues. The values are different. I grew up cross-culturally with one foot planted firmly in both camps. It was always interesting to see the contrasts. I am fortunate, in a way, that I can fully understand the values that both camps hold dear. But only one of those camps wants to force their will on the other.

    Mix in government education and media, and now you've empowered a bunch of ignorant clumpers to think that their values are the only worthy ones.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  6. #5
    Prices will go up in the cities until the incentive to ship goods into them is high enough to outweigh the incentive not to. Some stubborn rural folks may try to stick to their guns while their neighbors keep making obscene profits from the cities that they're missing out on. But those stubborn ones won't have any affect beyond keeping the city prices higher. The higher cost of living in the cities will drive some more city dwellers out of them, which will drive up prices out in the suburban and rural areas and pull them back down to earth in the cities, and it will equal out.

    At the end of the day, the biggest winners will be the people who embrace the division of labor, and engage in unbridled trade with other people regardless where they live and what group they're a part of.
    Last edited by Invisible Man; 01-08-2021 at 08:32 AM.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    I mean, I think that's the heart of all of our issues. The values are different. I grew up cross-culturally with one foot planted firmly in both camps. It was always interesting to see the contrasts. I am fortunate, in a way, that I can fully understand the values that both camps hold dear. But only one of those camps wants to force their will on the other.

    Mix in government education and media, and now you've empowered a bunch of ignorant clumpers to think that their values are the only worthy ones.
    I too grew up one foot in each camp.......In '71 my dad moved the family to the country during the forced bussing fiasco.

    I can't get much farther out, can't surround myself with more self reliant/ like minded people and yet they're still encroaching....

  8. #7
    My above post is not meant as a defense of city dwellers, by the way. Just a prediction of the unintended consequences of proposals like the OP. I tend to agree with the sentiment about the City.

    There's a great book on the evils of the City, not just in today's world, but as an innate quality of all cities going back to Babel, by anarchist Christian theologian, Jacques Ellul.
    https://www.amazon.com/Meaning-City-...dp/1606089730/

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Prices will go up in the cities until the incentive to ship goods into them is high enough to outweigh the incentive not to. Some stubborn rural folks may try to stick to their guns while their neighbors keep making obscene profits from the cities that they're missing out on. But those stubborn ones won't have any affect beyond keeping the city prices higher. The higher cost of living in the cities will drive some more city dwellers out of them, which will drive prices out in the suburban and rural areas and pull them back down to earth in the cities, and it will equal out.

    At the end of the day, the biggest winners will be the people who embrace the division of labor, and engage in unbridled trade with other people regardless where they live and what group they're a part of.
    Trade is well and good so long as people have something of value to trade...

    Shall we discuss digital 1's-n-0's backed by paper traded for food and resources?

    City people have very little to offer.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    City people have very little to offer.
    Their ability to buy things proves otherwise.

  12. #10
    Many people live in the city because of approved government subsidized housing. It’s also near the welfare/unemployment/social security office and check cashing store...
    Last edited by The Northbreather; 01-08-2021 at 02:23 PM.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by The Northbreather View Post
    Many people lie in the city because of approved government subsidized housing. It’s also near the welfare/unemployment/social security office and check cashing store...
    That is true. And for those people, my above remark about being able to buy things doesn't apply. But there are plenty of people in the city who don't fit that description.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Their ability to buy things proves otherwise.
    We're all using funny money, just look at the supply generated over the last several months...

    The rest of the world certainly is.

  15. #13
    How to bring the cities to heel?
    Make 'em cold, hungry and in the dark.

    It's not that hard to do.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  16. #14
    I can see the concrete slowly creepin'

    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Been mulling this over for quite a while...

    Counties have the authority to inspect/restrict freight that travels on roads in their jurisdiction. "Inspection" could often times take weeks due to backlogs and underfunding..

    We must keep the overloards in the cities safe afterall....

    Crops fail.

    Access to "covid infected" slaughter houses is quite dangerous, especially during the extra cold or extra hot months, best to slack off on animal production for large scale consumption.

    Power generation...................Must travel on lines traversing over leased ground.....Local judges could easily permit new leases due to an unstable economy.

    I'm sure there are more....
    Here ya' go:


    I know you fellers have poo-pooed the notion in the past....
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    I know you fellers have poo-pooed the notion in the past....
    You mean the notion of a balanced budget amendment? Or a constitutional convention? Or both?



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    You mean the notion of a balanced budget amendment? Or a constitutional convention? Or both?
    LOL. The discussion was prior to your join date.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    LOL. The discussion was prior to your join date.
    OK, can you fill me in with the Cliff Notes? I wasn't sure if you were saying that you're for a concon, and others were against it, or something else.

    For my part, I don't like the idea of either a concon or a balanced budget amendment.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    OK, can you fill me in with the Cliff Notes? I wasn't sure if you were saying that you're for a concon, and others were against it, or something else.

    For my part, I don't like the idea of either a concon or a balanced budget amendment.
    The concern in the past had been the free-for-all of a convention would lead to a further erosion of individual rights.
    The concept comes up every once in awhile (as illustrated by the map I posted).
    I see it as being a possibility after this past election.
    Red voters feel completely disenfranchised, and are bringing pressure to bear on their state representatives.
    A concon is the only path to actual secession, and will not be resolved without violence.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  23. #20
    $#@! , I'm going to need to make more arrows .

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    LOL. The discussion was prior to your join date.
    Not by a long shot.

    IM is a sock puppet account of a long banned member, pretty sure it's Juleswin
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Here ya' go:


    I know you fellers have poo-pooed the notion in the past....
    I haven't poo-pooed anything.

    This is a good idea, what worries me is bad motives and unstable people but I'll certainly keep my eyes-n-ears open as well as an open mind.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Here ya' go:


    I know you fellers have poo-pooed the notion in the past....
    Spooner told me to ask if I will be made party to this “contract” this time around...

  27. #24
    Here's another thought...

    One of the goals of Thomas Jefferson making the Louisiana Purchase was to increase the land mass to eventually bring new, sparsely-populated states into the union. He knew what we're talking about here. The agrarian mindset vs the industrial mindset as it relates to liberty.

    So, are there sparsely-populated areas to buy to increase freedom states?

    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Here ya' go:


    I know you fellers have poo-pooed the notion in the past....


    Every proposed balanced budget amendment (in at least the last 20 years) has had an exception for states of emergency. No thanks.



    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard.”

    H.L. Mencken

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by cjm View Post
    Every proposed balanced budget amendment (in at least the last 20 years) has had an exception for states of emergency. No thanks.
    Exactly. And there's no way any balanced budget amendment is even conceivable without some kind of exception clause like that. It would only give Congress more incentive than they already have to keep us in permanent wars.

  31. #27
    Maybe antifa will burn them all down or, have they been brought to heel now?

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    All in all, something needs to be done. Maybe wall [cities] off and let their own governments ruin them?
    It has been noted that much of the division in America today arises from the disparity in cultural and political power between the urban and the rural.

    Bringing back city-states might be an efficient and effective way of alleviating that disparity and restoring some kind of balance.

    Forcing them to exist in artificial top-down union with one another certainly isn't working out.
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 01-08-2021 at 03:46 PM.
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Exactly. And there's no way any balanced budget amendment is even conceivable without some kind of exception clause like that. It would only give Congress more incentive than they already have to keep us in permanent wars.
    Can't wait until NOAA gets trillions of dollars to fight the "climate change war".
    a comprehensive website about critical theory and how it's destroying our civilization: https://newdiscourses.com

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by cjm View Post
    Every proposed balanced budget amendment (in at least the last 20 years) has had an exception for states of emergency. No thanks.
    Besides which, they blithely ignore or circumvent amendments which already exist.

    How can anyone seriously think that they won't do the same for yet another amendment?

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