Republicans are bad, but Democrats are significantly worse.

[Swordsmyth]

A few issues? A few issues?

The Federal Reserve is one issue. And yet, the Federal Reserve is the monstrous domino which has the weight to topple a thousand other ugly dominoes. A thousand. Ugly dominoes. Monstrous.

A few issues?

Do you really think Kucinich wants a sound money, free market, liberty solution to the Fed?
Whatever communist "solution" he wants would be as bad or worse.
The enemy of your enemy may be your enemy as well.

[Madison320]

I also have friends I wouldn't want anywhere near a voting booth let alone a position in government if I could talk them out of it.

Kucinich is a nightmare and if Ron is soft on him because he was a fellow voice on a few issues that doesn't change anything.

Nightmare is an accurate term. I've always thought Ender had a left wing streak in him and this confirms it. I'm guessing things like progressive taxation don't bother him a bit.

This thread is reminding me of the Seinfeld episode where they meet a guy who's a communist, and everybody is saying ,"Wow, cool you're a communist? I never met one of those before!"

[nikcers]

Kucinich on Wars:



http://www.ontheissues.org/Dennis_Kucinich.htm

And my whole point is that there is NO DIFFERENCE between most of dems/repubs- but once in a while someone does have integrity. I don't agree w/all of Kucinich but at least he is honest and is trusted by Ron Paul.

right, there are issues especially regarding judicial activism that Rand Paul and Thomas Massie disagree but no two people agree on everything so that doesn't mean that they shouldn't work with people like Ron Wyden on things like the patriot act.

[acptulsa]

Nightmare is an accurate term. I've always thought Ender had a left wing streak in him and this confirms it. I'm guessing things like progressive taxation don't bother him a bit.

This thread is reminding me of the Seinfeld episode where they meet a guy who's a communist, and everybody is saying ,"Wow, cool you're a communist? I never met one of those before!"

This is ass hole behavior. Pure insult, no reason for it. Report me if you must. All I'm doing is calling a spade a spade.

Ender chooses not to turn his nose up at potential allies on key issues that can make all the difference. And you undercut him by going all...



Gee, I'm sorry I'm not putting a finer point on this, but that' $#@!ing stupid. And the fact that this attitude has taken over this forum and spread this witch hunt mentality all across it is why this forum isn't half the tool for activism it used to be.

Sorry if you can't see it. It's still the hard, gospel truth.

I'll say it again, and see if it sinks in some of the thicker skulls. Foot, meet bullet. Don't it feel good?

$#@! this stupidity.

[Swordsmyth]

This is ass hole behavior. Pure insult, no reason for it. Report me if you must. All I'm doing is calling a spade a spade.

Ender chooses not to turn his nose up at potential allies on key issues that can make all the difference. And you undercut him by going all...



Gee, I'm sorry I'm not putting a finer point on this, but that' $#@!ing stupid. And the fact that this attitude has taken over this forum and spread this witch hunt mentality all across it is why this forum isn't half the tool for activism it used to be.

Sorry if you can't see it. It's still the hard, gospel truth.

No one has said not to work with anyone on any issues where they are willing to vote the right way.

[acptulsa]

No one has said not to work with anyone on any issues where they are willing to vote the right way.

Ender indicated a willingness to work with people and you called the man a goddamned communist. This is your idea of working with people?

Got news for you. I can work with a commie, as long as he or she wants local or state level communism, recognizes that federal level communism is evil, and is from another state. And I can do it without insulting him or her, or even calling the person a commie if that person doesn't like it. And I can sure as $#@! do it without calling a friend of mine a commie for even suggesting I work with that person.

Jesus save us.

You do realize this dried up husk of a forum, which used to attract bipartisan activism, is a public forum, right? Right?

Bend us all over.

[Swordsmyth]

Ender indicated a willingness to work with people and you called the man a goddamned communist. This is your idea of working with people?

Got news for you. I can work with a commie, as long as he or she wants local or state level communism, recognizes that federal level communism is evil, and is from another state. And I can do it without insulting him or her, or even calling the person a commie if that person doesn't like it. And I can sure as $#@! do it without calling a friend of mine a commie for even suggesting I work with that person.

Jesus save us.

You do realize this dried up husk of a forum, which used to attract bipartisan activism, is a public forum, right? Right?

Bend us all over.

I never called Ender anything.

[PierzStyx]

On the Dems side you have people like Polis, Booker, and Wyden.

Put really the partisan divide is an illusion. When it comes to centralized state power and its ability to compel you to obey it against your will the old adage holds true: Its six of one, half dozen of the other.

[Madison320]

This is ass hole behavior. Pure insult, no reason for it. Report me if you must. All I'm doing is calling a spade a spade.

Whatever.

Also I've been researching Kucinich's position on the Fed. It looks like he wants to replace the Fed not with a free market banking system but with CONGRESS!!!!! So basically it appears Kucinich wants a government takeover of the entire banking system.


http://www.zerohedge.com/article/gue...ttempt-end-fed

I remember some idiots in congress talking about how terrible the Fed is and how it sucks that we have to pay interest on the money we borrow. They said "if we could only print the money ourselves we wouldn't have to pay interest." I'm wondering if Kucinich was one of those guys.

[acptulsa]

Nightmare is an accurate term. I've always thought Ender had a left wing streak in him and this confirms it. I'm guessing things like progressive taxation don't bother him a bit.

This thread is reminding me of the Seinfeld episode where they meet a guy who's a communist, and everybody is saying ,"Wow, cool you're a communist? I never met one of those before!"

I never called Ender anything.

Fine. You had your 'He might be a commie!' moment and had your Beavis and Buthead 'heh heh. Heh. Heh heh heh' laugh. And then you admitted you just might work with a commie yourself, in deference to the Ninth and Tenth Amendments, which give any state the right to be commie if that's what their constituents want, if they would help you end this federal tyranny (and were from a different state). Making you exactly like Ender, but slower to realize you're exactly like Ender.

Except you're not exactly like Ender. Someone might work with Ender. No one will work with you, because they heard you do the Beavis and Butthead laugh in public.

Proud?

Whatever.

Also I've been researching Kucinich's position on the Fed. It looks like he wants to replace the Fed not with a free market banking system but with CONGRESS!!!!! So basically it appears Kucinich wants a government takeover of the entire banking system.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/gue...ttempt-end-fed

I remember some idiots in congress talking about how terrible the Fed is and how it sucks that we have to pay interest on the money we borrow. They said "if we could only print the money ourselves we wouldn't have to pay interest." I'm wondering if Kucinich was one of those guys.

Probably. So, you would pass on a chance to end the Fed now, and have a debate with these idealistic fools on whether this brave new currency could stand competing currencies later?

If not, you'd be a piss poor ally in this fight.

[Swordsmyth]

On the Dems side you have people like Polis, Booker, and Wyden.

Put really the partisan divide is an illusion. When it comes to centralized state power and its ability to compel you to obey it against your will the old adage holds true: Its six of one, half dozen of the other.

https://www.thenewamerican.com/freedom-index

New Jersey

Sen. Cory Booker - 12%

Colorado

Dist.2: Jared Polis - 24%

Oregon

Sen. Ron Wyden - 16%



Yup, Real liberty warriors!

[Swordsmyth]

Fine. You had your 'He might be a commie!' moment and had your Beavis and Buthead 'heh heh. Heh. Heh heh heh' laugh. And then you admitted you just might work with a commie yourself, in deference to the Ninth and Tenth Amendments, which give any state the right to be commie if that's what their constituents want, if they would help you end this federal tyranny (and were from a different state). Making you exactly like Ender, but slower to realize you're exactly like Ender.

Except you're not exactly like Ender. Someone might work with Ender. No one will work with you, because they heard you do the Beavis and Butthead laugh in public.

Proud?

Do you think Madison and I are one and the same?

You do know that this thread is not about who we will work with right?

This thread is about which side of the spectrum is a greater threat to liberty and must be dealt with more cautiously.

[Swordsmyth]

Probably. So, you would pass on a chance to end the Fed now, and have a debate with these idealistic fools on whether this brave new currency could stand competing currencies later?

If not, you'd be a piss poor ally in this fight.

When has anyone on this thread said they wouldn't work with anyone or take their votes?

I love the way you expect us to make Kucinich a blood brother but you won't give Trump any credit for the times he is on our side.

[acptulsa]

No one has said not to work with anyone on any issues where they are willing to vote the right way.

Do you think Madison and I are one and the same?

You set the parameters, not me.

You do know that this thread is not about who we will work with right?

This thread is about which side of the spectrum is a greater threat to liberty and must be dealt with more cautiously.

Everything one says in public determines who one will be working with, if anyone.

Democrats have had the superior position on many civil liberties for decades and decades. Posting threads for the purpose of insulting them is playing into the divide and conquer game, and shooting yourself in the foot. The Democrat politicians have taken the superior position on personal freedom and the Republicans on economic freedom for years and years for a reason. If the two parties were the Libertarian Party and the Communist Party, they couldn't have caused us to sacrifice our liberties on the Lesser Evil Altar all this time, because everyone could see what is Stalin-level evil and what is not evil at all.

[Swordsmyth]

You set the parameters, not me.



Everything one says in public determines who one will be working with, if anyone.

So Rand doesn't want to work with Trump? Or Ron didn't want to work with Kucinich?

Ron routinely condemned bills that Kucinich voted for but they could still work together, it sounds to me like you are the one who won't work with anyone who says something you don't like.

[Natural Citizen]

Coalition is a good idea in practice. In fact, a great example of that would be what we've seen with Bernie Sanders and Ron Paul at the Federal level. Both have actually agreed on some principles and voted together in support of legislation that was against corporatism and the military industrial complex.

Of course, people would ask why Ron voted with a socialist and the answer was that they both were against corporatism and the benefits of other special interests. Their solutions weren't the same, but they agreed in principle on why they were voting for or against various legislation. Ron's solution would reflect the free market and Bernie's would float toward a socialistic solution.

But they both opposed corporate and military subsidies together and on their voting record.

So that's coalition. It's a good practice. So I'm glad to see that echoed in the thread.

[acptulsa]

So Rand doesn't want to work with Trump? Or Ron didn't want to work with Kucinich?

Ron routinely condemned bills that Kucinich voted for but they could still work together, it sounds to me like you are the one who won't work with anyone who says something you don't like.

Uh huh. Obviously I'm not upset for a legitimate reason, like saying toxic things about people discourages them from working with me.

Rand will work with Trump, will he? Is this you admitting what the rest of us already know, that Trump is a Democrat in drag?

[Swordsmyth]

Uh huh. Obviously I'm not upset for a legitimate reason, like saying toxic things about people discourages them from working with me.

Rand will work with Trump, will he? Is this you admitting what the rest of us already know, that Trump is a Democrat in drag?

I never claimed Trump was one of us, I have criticized him many times, I have yet to see you or your friends give him the same treatment you give Kucinich.

[acptulsa]

I never claimed Trump was one of us, I have criticized him many times, I have yet to see you or your friends give him the same treatment you give Kucinich.

And have you seen Trump show the slightest sign that he might work against the wars and/or the Fed?

[Natural Citizen]

This is my all-time favorite Kucinich moment. He's one of the few people that actually talk about Santa Clara county vs Pacific Railroad. Which is the specific place in time when natural citizens had their identity and political power hijacked. Had the events of Santa Clara county vs Pacific Railroad not taken place, there would be no events of 1913.

[Madison320]

Fine. You had your 'He might be a commie!' moment and had your Beavis and Buthead 'heh heh. Heh. Heh heh heh' laugh. And then you admitted you just might work with a commie yourself, in deference to the Ninth and Tenth Amendments, which give any state the right to be commie if that's what their constituents want, if they would help you end this federal tyranny (and were from a different state). Making you exactly like Ender, but slower to realize you're exactly like Ender.

Except you're not exactly like Ender. Someone might work with Ender. No one will work with you, because they heard you do the Beavis and Butthead laugh in public.

Proud?

I have no earthly idea what you're talking about.

Probably. So, you would pass on a chance to end the Fed now, and have a debate with these idealistic fools on whether this brave new currency could stand competing currencies later?

If not, you'd be a piss poor ally in this fight.

You think Kucinich's first step would be to end the Fed and go to a free market banking system? And then step two would be to nationalize the banking system? Ha! Ha! Ha!
Not a chance in hell! He would much prefer The Fed to a free market banking system. He wants MORE government control over banks not LESS. The only way he would end the fed would be a direct move to a government controlled system.

On a slightly different topic, calling someone a communist is not an insult, it's merely a factual description. And I never called Ender a communist I called Kucinich a communist. Do some research on communism and Kucinich's positions.

[Natural Citizen]

Wait. What's wrong with Ender? I like Ender.

[acptulsa]

I have no earthly idea what you're talking about.

You also have no earthly idea what you're talking about. And here's the proof:

You think Kucinich's first step would be to end the Fed and go to a free market banking system? And then step two would be to nationalize the banking system? Ha! Ha! Ha!
Not a chance in hell! He would much prefer The Fed to a free market banking system. He wants MORE government control over banks not LESS. The only way he would end the fed would be a direct move to a government controlled system.

On a slightly different topic, calling someone a communist is not an insult, it's merely a factual description. And I never called Ender a communist I called Kucinich a communist. Do some research on communism and Kucinich's positions.

Firstly, ever since Stalin, everyone considers 'communist' an insult--especially communists. Proof one you don't know what you're talking about.

Secondly, an idealistic socialist believes that getting the right people in charge makes all the difference, and will remove the evil from positions of power at any cost. They know having a Stalin in charge of your communism makes all socialism look bad, and will pay just about any price to get him out. So much for your theory that a Kucinich would rather suffer an evil Fed than let the market have a chance to prove itself. They believe a conscientiously-run centrally planned currency will prove itself just as surely as we believe the market will crush it in a minute. Proof two you don't know what you're talking about.

But that won't keep you from insulting potential allies with threads like this. Will it?

If you had ever actually spoken to these people you blindly revile, you would know these things.

[Champ]

Just looking back at the last few pages, it reminds me of how effective Dr. Paul was at bringing people together that were coming from vastly different political backgrounds and beliefs.

There had been strict constitutionalist and libertarians that had been following RP for decades leading up until 2007/2008. There were also Republicans in 2008 that were tired of the neocon republicans abandoning their stance on a humble foreign policy or on economics as they spent hugely and maximized executive power. Then there were the liberals that were maybe reluctant Democrats or Nader Green Party folk that hated anything having to do with war and knew the Democrat anti-war policies were a farce. Some just wanted to watch the world burn in a sense and have a guy that would blow it all up. Ron Paul was the only politician anywhere at the time basically saying he literally wanted to destroy most of the departments and replace them with nothing.

Then there were the Obama voters in 2008 that got fed up, wanted change, and went all in for RP because he was the best person for the job by that point that was actually talking about making change happen. There was an abnormal and surprising amount of these that rallied behind RP in 2012. And then you had even a further amount of furious conservatives that saw the failures of the Republican Party during the Bush years, compounded by the same failed strategy with a super neocon McCain in 2008 yelling war everywhere he went and drove even more out of the clutches of the GOP establishment. I think the bias by the media by this point was almost self evident after watching the 2008 elections, furthered by 2011/2012, and this awakened yet another group that just wanted someone that was not from the establishment/msm backed empire, a true outsider.

All these groups wildly different, but supportive of the same free thinking, honest, and principled Ron Paul that met many of their needs politically speaking. There are still echoes of who we were before we came to get behind this man. Some are libertarian purists, others like to be more pragmatic about making change happen, and yet others prefer to build coalitions with people even if they have disagreements.

I'm sure there are many more factions that merged to all support RP that I missed. I think when you have these kinds of discussions, it's important to remember just how much RP united so many different factions. Liberty comes in many different forms to a lot of people and we really have only just begun to have discussions on a larger scale about what it means after nearly all being indoctrinated by the public education system for at least the last 5 decades. Not everyone started off supporting RP as a constitutionalist or a small government loving person or got home schooled and had a more direct path to understand what liberty and Ron Paul were all about without having the enormous baggage of propaganda they needed to disperse with. We each came from unique backgrounds and had to experience our own set of failures with trial and error decisions in choosing the philosophy we supported and who was best to actually carry out said philosophy before we were ready to wake up.

[timosman]

This is my all-time favorite Kucinich moment. He's one of the few people that actually talk about Santa Clara county vs Pacific Railroad. Which is the specific place in time when natural citizens had their identity and political power hijacked. Had the events of Santa Clara county vs Pacific Railroad not taken place, there would be no events of 1913.

The government is a corporation. How would it work if the excessive rights of corporations were abolished?

[Raginfridus]

I used to think splitting Republicrats was impossible. Then I briefly heard Ron Paul and saw how much he was hated by the establishment. I think it was Jon Stewart who introduced me to Ron. Wasn't he a guest on a few episodes?

[Natural Citizen]

The government is a corporation. How would it work if the excessive rights of corporations were abolished?

The Act of 1871 is Treason.

I'm not sure that I understand where you want to go with it, splain yoself, please.

[Cleaner44]

I agree. I would say the hierarchy goes something like this...

Dog$#@! > Republicans > Democrats

[Swordsmyth]

And have you seen Trump show the slightest sign that he might work against the wars and/or the Fed?

There are other issues that are just as important where he beats Kucinich by a mile.

[acptulsa]

There are other issues that are just as important where he beats Kucinich by a mile.

More important than peace and prosperity? Really?

The government is sending our children to die, even though we are not in danger. They are alienating all the people of the whole world and turning them against us. The government is degrading our wages and stealing our savings.

You say there are more important issues than these. I don't agree. Period.