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Thread: The US Will Break Its Teeth On Iran

  1. #1

    The US Will Break Its Teeth On Iran

    The US Will Break Its Teeth On Iran

    By Eric Margolis

    Maybe the president believes he’s won a great victory over the wicked Syrians by lobbing cruise missiles at one of their underused air bases. Maybe Trump believes that he’s scared the evil Russians and the too big for their sampans Chinese into obedience.

    His 22,000 lb MOAB terror bomb on Afghanistan should keep those pesky Taliban quiet for a while even though the Pentagon claimed the intended target was a group- Khorosan – that may not actually exist.

    Those major malefactors, the crazy North Koreans, could be about to feel America’s full military might if they so much as twitch.

    Not content with nearly stirring up a new war with North Korea, President Donald Trump is now waving the big stick at another of Washington’s favorite bogeymen, Iran. For the Trumps, Iran is poison.

    Time to buy old US gold coins

    In recent days, President Trump has threatened to renounce the six-power nuclear agreement to freeze or shrink Iran’s nuclear infrastructure. This sensible pact was signed during the Obama administration by the great powers: US, Britain, France, Russia, Germany and China. Trump appears willing to abrogate the treaty and outrage the other great powers just because he hates Iran for some reason and, it appears, Muslims in general.

    The Trump administration seems increasingly influenced by Israel’s far-right Netanyahu government. In fact, PM Netanyahu often appears the most moderate member of his rightist coalition which is dominated by militant West Bank settlers. War at the Top of the ... Eric Margolis, Eric S.... Best Price: $0.99 Buy New $6.95

    Trump has surrounded himself with ardent supporters of Israel’s right. One of his major bankrollers is casino mogul Sheldon Adelson who is a key supporter of Jewish expansion on the illegally occupied West Bank.

    Israel’s right has made a hate fetish of Iran and incessantly calls for war against the Islamic Republic. However, the mighty US Israel lobby twice failed to push the Obama administration to attack Iran. The US Congress, by contrast, is totally under the thumb of Israel’s American lobby and pays more respect to PM Netanyahu than the president. He who pays the piper….

    In fact, Congress sought to block sales of Boeing civilian airliners to Iran worth $16.6 billion even though it would have cost thousands of American jobs. Congress has been trying to sabotage the Iran nuclear deal ever since it was signed, putting American national interests on a collision course with those of Israel’s right.

    But now President Trump says he’s found a new reason to sabotage the six-power deal: Iran, insists Trump, supports ‘terrorism’ and has bad intentions. This charge has been around for decades, cited by Israel as a compelling reason to attack Iran because Tehran supports the ‘terrorist’ Lebanese movement Hezbollah and the Palestinian movement Hamas.

    The ‘terrorist’ label is slapped onto all enemies of Israel and the United States. It’s a handy, meaningless sobriquet that automatically denies those so named political or moral justice. American Raj: America ... Eric Margolis Best Price: $9.15 Buy New $20.39

    I was with the Israel army when it invaded Lebanon in 1982 and saw first-hand how its arrogance turned formerly pro-Israel Shia Lebanese in the south into anti-Israel fighters. Israel actually encouraged and may have secretly financed the growth of Hezbollah and Hamas hoping they would drain support from the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) and Lebanon’s Amal militia.

    Israel hates Hamas and Hezbollah and is determined to eradicate them. The principal supporter of Hamas and Hezbollah has long been Syria. Large parts of Syria have now been destroyed by a US-engineered uprising and bands of Saudi-financed mercenaries. That has left Iran as the main supporter of Hamas and Hezbollah, and a principal backer of Syria’s Assad government. The PLO has become a puppet of Israel and the US.

    So Israel is now determined to destroy Hezbollah in its strongholds in Lebanon and then crush Hamas with Trump’s blessing, so ending any dreams of a Palestinian state. Iran is now being blamed for all Washington’s problems in the Mideast. So war fever against Iran is again mounting.

    Interestingly, Iran, which has 79.1 million people, is not cowering before this threat. Like North Korea, Iran’s air force and navy are sitting ducks. But Iran has strong infantry, some 500,000 men including Revolutionary Guards. They are armed with outdated weapons but showed redoubtable fighting spirit in the Iran-Iraq War. Any US invasion would be met by fierce resistance.

    An Iranian commander told me, ‘let the Americans come and invade. They will break their teeth on Iran. Then we will drive them out of the Mideast.”

    Boastful, yes, but not impossible. Iran could prove more than the US can handle. President Trump does not know this yet and is still having fun with his new military toys. Problem is, he just can’t decide where to attack first.

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/04/...ak-teeth-iran/
    There is no spoon.



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  3. #2
    BUMP-

    Everyone should read this.
    There is no spoon.

  4. #3
    Interesting read.
    Lip service and occasional ego-boosting, art of the bluff type "biggest of all times" "mother of all shock n awes" displays aside, I think there will be retraction and not expansion uf US freedom spreading projects during Trump Presidency. Trump probably would try to milk as much money as he can from Saudi kings in the name of Iran but highly doubtful that Saudi-Israeli dictatorship-zionism nexus would succeed in pushing America in a direct war against Iran. Neocons' influence is still too much but no where near what it used to be.

  5. #4
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  6. #5
    Monday the USS Mahan fired warning flares towards Iranian patrol boats a kilometer away.

    Iranian Foreign Minister responds with truth tweet:

    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    Monday the USS Mahan fired warning flares towards Iranian patrol boats a kilometer away.

    Iranian Foreign Minister responds with truth tweet:

    Excellent question.
    There is no spoon.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    Monday the USS Mahan fired warning flares towards Iranian patrol boats a kilometer away.

    Iranian Foreign Minister responds with truth tweet:
    Making the world safe for democracy?

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Interestingly, Iran, which has 79.1 million people, is not cowering before this threat. Like North Korea, Iran’s air force and navy are sitting ducks. But Iran has strong infantry, some 500,000 men including Revolutionary Guards. They are armed with outdated weapons but showed redoubtable fighting spirit in the Iran-Iraq War. Any US invasion would be met by fierce resistance.

    An Iranian commander told me, ‘let the Americans come and invade. They will break their teeth on Iran. Then we will drive them out of the Mideast.”

    Boastful, yes, but not impossible. Iran could prove more than the US can handle. President Trump does not know this yet and is still having fun with his new military toys. Problem is, he just can’t decide where to attack first.

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/04/...ak-teeth-iran/
    The US could obliterate Iran's conventional forces very rapidly and at virtually no cost - as with Saddam in the First Gulf War.

    The guerilla war which would follow any attempted occupation, on the other hand, would make Iraq look like Grenada.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The US could obliterate Iran's conventional forces very rapidly and at virtually no cost - as with Saddam in the First Gulf War.
    I doubt it would be the cakewalk you envision. And it is not as simple as simply counting beans. Its more a comparison of apples to oranges. Despite its advanced weapons and money, remember Washington’s great war machine lost in Korea and Vietnam. After 16 years, it is losing in Afghanistan. It’s proxy war to overthrow Syria is now all but embers.

    Let’s compare some of the differences from Iraq. Iran is more than three and a half times the area of Iraq. And it is far more mountainous and varied terrain. It does not allow for easy fast ground invasion, and more lengthy, risky and difficult air raids. It is far more defensible terrain.

    Iran is also more than twice the population of Iraq, and the population is unified. Iran is not the fractured Sunni – Shia – Kurds factions that were in Iraq. Iran is an ancient nation. Iran is not a made up country of artificial borders dreamed up by Western nations squeezing together a mish mash hodge podge of separate nations and varying groups. Washington would not have Shia and Kurd factions rising up to fight the government forces during the invasion. Iran has a population that is overwhelmingly ethnically and religiously homogeneous. Nor would you likely have generals and military so quick to surrender like many of the Baathist of Iraq that had little true loyalty to Saddam. The population would be effectively unified in resisting the invaders.

    Also, Iran’s military is not the backwater brigades of the 1980s when Washington instigated and supported Saddam Hussein’s failed invasion of Iran. Since that time their defenses are substantially improved. Plus Iran and other nations have had the past two decades of opportunity to watch study and plan for Washington's military tactics, chain of command, logistics, assault, invasions, weapons, coordination, SOP, in action because Washington has actively been invading, attacking and warring with other nations continuously since that time.

    First Washington’s modus operendi of bombing of nations with no effective air defense against Washington’s air superiority would not exist. While Iran has a modest air force of over 450 operational jets and military aircraft, it would not scramble them to go toe to doe with US air force. Over the past twenty years, Iran has hardened, buried and concealed the most valuable military, government and civilian targets. Washington would not simply obliterate all targets in 24 hours. Remember Washington launched the most concentrated bombing raids for 78 days straight against Yugoslavia yet Serbian forces survived virtually unscathed. That is when Washington decided to really up the rain of terror by targeting civilian targets while offering a deal to Milosevic. Basically Washington resorted to openly using terrorism to get the deal it wanted.

    Also remember air superiority is not the be all end all Washington would have everyone believe. Hezbollah had no air force at all, and made zero use of their air defenses (save for manpads) but nevertheless delivered to the Israelis their most crushing defeat in history during Israel’s 2006 attack on Lebanon.

    Iran has developed both high tech and low costs countermeasures to a Washington invasion including GPS-spoofing, disruption, electronic counter-measures warfare, advanced mine warfare, small boat operations and, missile strikes dramatically increasing the costs damage and risk of any Washington invasion of any portion of the Iranian territory.

    Iran now has the very advanced S-300 air defense systems which can effectively negate any US aircraft. Multiple invading US aircraft would be rapidly destroyed. It would be very costly. In addition, Iran has other effective missile technology. They do not need to hit Washington jets in flight but can target the airfields and ships from which they launch.

    Iran has developed low cost high speed attack boats, which although useless for long range open water actions are very effective for purely defensive coastal water defenses, as well as advanced mine technology to keep Washington's naval power out of Iranian coastal waters. In addition Iran has effective coastal submarine technology. While none of these items have any effective blue water uses, they are extremely effective for coastal defense. Washington’s blue water naval power is effectively equalized or neutralized the coastal Persian waters.

    Iran has an active military force of half a million all based in Iran, plus 300,000 military reserves, plus a population of at least 11 million men qualified for military duty. Its armor is not so advanced, but it would be more difficult for Washington to launch a heavy armor invasion into Iran. Even if they did, as Hezbollah has repeatedly shown, in the right terrain, infantry is more then effective at defeating armor.

    Logistics work in Iran’s favor. Time works in Iran’s favor. It won’t be any two week campaign in and out. Washington has not the logistic staying power for a long term heavy campaign 7,000+ miles from home. It is especially costly with Washington already spread so thin with active provocations in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, now starting in Korea, and to a lesser extent in at least a half dozen other locales. Iran is self sustaining if necessary – fuel, food, energy, materials. It was forced to develop self sufficiency under Washington's prolonged sanctions war which of course failed. However it is unlikely Iran would be isolated. Trade would likely continue with many nations including such large nations as China, India, Russia.

    Iran has also received observer member status in the Shangai Cooperation Organization and is on the road to full membership. If it did not receive direct military support from China and Russia, it would receive indirect support in the form of weapons, technology, intelligence, and advisers.
    Last edited by AZJoe; 04-29-2017 at 04:45 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  12. #10
    Basically Washington resorted to openly using terrorism to get the deal it wanted.
    Shouldn't this be investigated?

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    I doubt it would be the cakewalk you envision. And it is not as simple as simply counting beans. Its more a comparison of apples to oranges. Despite its advanced weapons and money, remember Washington’s great war machine lost in Korea and Vietnam. After 16 years, it is losing in Afghanistan. It’s proxy war to overthrow Syria is now all but embers.

    Let’s compare some of the differences from Iraq. Iran is more than three and a half times the area of Iraq. And it is far more mountainous and varied terrain. It does not allow for easy fast ground invasion, and more lengthy, risky and difficult air raids. It is far more defensible terrain.

    Iran is also more than twice the population of Iraq, and the population is unified. Iran is not the fractured Sunni – Shia – Kurds factions that were in Iraq. Iran is an ancient nation. Iran is not a made up country of artificial borders dreamed up by Western nations squeezing together a mish mash hodge podge of separate nations and varying groups. Washington would not have Shia and Kurd factions rising up to fight the government forces during the invasion. Iran has a population that is overwhelmingly ethnically and religiously homogeneous. Nor would you likely have generals and military so quick to surrender like many of the Baathist of Iraq that had little true loyalty to Saddam. The population would be effectively unified in resisting the invaders.

    Also, Iran’s military is not the backwater brigades of the 1980s when Washington instigated and supported Saddam Hussein’s failed invasion of Iran. Since that time their defenses are substantially improved. Plus Iran and other nations have had the past two decades of opportunity to watch study and plan for Washington's military tactics, chain of command, logistics, assault, invasions, weapons, coordination, SOP, in action because Washington has actively been invading, attacking and warring with other nations continuously since that time.

    First Washington’s modus operendi of bombing of nations with no effective air defense against Washington’s air superiority would not exist. While Iran has a modest air force of over 450 operational jets and military aircraft, it would not scramble them to go toe to doe with US air force. Over the past twenty years, Iran has hardened, buried and concealed the most valuable military, government and civilian targets. Washington would not simply obliterate all targets in 24 hours. Remember Washington launched the most concentrated bombing raids for 78 days straight against Yugoslavia yet Serbian forces survived virtually unscathed. That is when Washington decided to really up the rain of terror by targeting civilian targets while offering a deal to Milosevic. Basically Washington resorted to openly using terrorism to get the deal it wanted.

    Also remember air superiority is not the be all end all Washington would have everyone believe. Hezbollah had no air force at all, and made zero use of their air defenses (save for manpads) but nevertheless delivered to the Israelis their most crushing defeat in history during Israel’s 2006 attack on Lebanon.

    Iran has developed both high tech and low costs countermeasures to a Washington invasion including GPS-spoofing, disruption, electronic counter-measures warfare, advanced mine warfare, small boat operations and, missile strikes dramatically increasing the costs damage and risk of any Washington invasion of any portion of the Iranian territory.

    Iran now has the very advanced S-300 air defense systems which can effectively negate any US aircraft. Multiple invading US aircraft would be rapidly destroyed. It would be very costly. In addition, Iran has other effective missile technology. They do not need to hit Washington jets in flight but can target the airfields and ships from which they launch.

    Iran has developed low cost high speed attack boats, which although useless for long range open water actions are very effective for purely defensive coastal water defenses, as well as advanced mine technology to keep Washington's naval power out of Iranian coastal waters. In addition Iran has effective coastal submarine technology. While none of these items have any effective blue water uses, they are extremely effective for coastal defense. Washington’s blue water naval power is effectively equalized or neutralized the coastal Persian waters.

    Iran has an active military force of half a million all based in Iran, plus 300,000 military reserves, plus a population of at least 11 million men qualified for military duty. Its armor is not so advanced, but it would be more difficult for Washington to launch a heavy armor invasion into Iran. Even if they did, as Hezbollah has repeatedly shown, in the right terrain, infantry is more then effective at defeating armor.

    Logistics work in Iran’s favor. Time works in Iran’s favor. It won’t be any two week campaign in and out. Washington has not the logistic staying power for a long term heavy campaign 7,000+ miles from home. It is especially costly with Washington already spread so thin with active provocations in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, now starting in Korea, and to a lesser extent in at least a half dozen other locales. Iran is self sustaining if necessary – fuel, food, energy, materials. It was forced to develop self sufficiency under Washington's prolonged sanctions war which of course failed. However it is unlikely Iran would be isolated. Trade would likely continue with many nations including such large nations as China, India, Russia.

    Iran has also received observer member status in the Shangai Cooperation Organization and is on the road to full membership. If it did not receive direct military support from China and Russia, it would receive indirect support in the form of weapons, technology, intelligence, and advisers.
    ^^THIS^^

    Plus the Persians are some of the smartest people on the planet and have probably already out thought Washington, in terms of defense.
    There is no spoon.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Shouldn't this be investigated?
    By who? Government?
    There is no spoon.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    By who? Government?
    We, the people. Do we have a representative in the government or not?

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    First Washington’s modus operendi of bombing of nations with no effective air defense against Washington’s air superiority would not exist.
    The Iranian AF has 161 fighters, over half of which date from the 1950s (mostly US-made, delivered pre-revolution): inferior to the compliment of a single US carrier. The Iraqi AF in 1990 was about 5 times larger and contained similarly outdated fighters (a large part of the current Iranian AF actually consists of Iraqi planes that escaped to Iran during the war). Iranian air defense would have to rely almost entirely on SAMs, of which they only have a couple dozen modern systems (including 9 S-300s), which have never been tested against 4th/5th generation fighters: the remainder being the same 1960s/70s vintage stuff that the USAF rolled over in the First Gulf War.

    The US would gain air superiority as quickly and easily as in the First Gulf War, IMO.

    Washington’s blue water naval power is effectively equalized or neutralized the coastal Persian waters.
    Yes, inexpensive, mobile anti-ship-missiles have made near shore operations for surface vessels suicidal.

    But the US could just as well use air bases on land: in Bahrain, the KSA, Iraq, or Afghanistan.

    Iran has an active military force of half a million all based in Iran, plus 300,000 military reserves, plus a population of at least 11 million men qualified for military duty. Its armor is not so advanced, but it would be more difficult for Washington to launch a heavy armor invasion into Iran. Even if they did, as Hezbollah has repeatedly shown, in the right terrain, infantry is more then effective at defeating armor.

    Logistics work in Iran’s favor. Time works in Iran’s favor. It won’t be any two week campaign in and out. Washington has not the logistic staying power for a long term heavy campaign 7,000+ miles from home. It is especially costly with Washington already spread so thin with active provocations in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, now starting in Korea, and to a lesser extent in at least a half dozen other locales. Iran is self sustaining if necessary – fuel, food, energy, materials. It was forced to develop self sufficiency under Washington's prolonged sanctions war which of course failed. However it is unlikely Iran would be isolated. Trade would likely continue with many nations including such large nations as China, India, Russia.
    My point is that the conventional Iranian military (any planes, tanks, airfields, barracks, ships, dock, etc, etc) would be obliterated from the air just as in Saddam's Iraq. Actually invading and occupying the country is another matter entirely. As I indicated in my earlier post, it would be a catastrophe, much worse than Iraq.

    Iran has also received observer member status in the Shangai Cooperation Organization and is on the road to full membership. If it did not receive direct military support from China and Russia, it would receive indirect support in the form of weapons, technology, intelligence, and advisers.
    If the US were stupid enough to fight a major ground war in Iran, I imagine Russia/China would feed the insurgents weapons as the US did in Afghanistan in the 80s.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    ^^THIS^^

    Plus the Persians are some of the smartest people on the planet and have probably already out thought Washington, in terms of defense.
    No $#@!, this is more true than people know.

    Let me show you the arabic numerals: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The US would gain air superiority as quickly and easily as in the First Gulf War, IMO. Yes, inexpensive, mobile anti-ship-missiles have made near shore operations for surface vessels suicidal. But the US could just as well use air bases on land: in Bahrain, the KSA, Iraq, or Afghanistan. My point is that the conventional Iranian military (any planes, tanks, airfields, barracks, ships, dock, etc, etc) would be obliterated from the air just as in Saddam's Iraq. Actually invading and occupying the country is another matter entirely. As I indicated in my earlier post, it would be a catastrophe, much worse than Iraq. If the US were stupid enough to fight a major ground war in Iran, I imagine Russia/China would feed the insurgents weapons as the US did in Afghanistan in the 80s.
    Yes you are absolutely right that it would be a catastrophe. Yes, Washington has air superiority from the get go, but it would not be as quickly and easily as the first gulf war. Even just an air invasion would be more costly than the Washington establishment admits. The vastly larger area, terrain, and hardened target sites alone makes it more risky and costly. Yes, air alone was the ingoing belief for victory for Korea, and Vietnam, and Soviets in Afghanistan, and they all lost in the end. Be skeptical of buying into the sales pitch that air superiority trumps everything and it will be a cakewalk. We’ve heard that over and over before.

    Of course Washington could and would drops lots of bombs and missiles, but they will still lose jets and pilots. Iran has both S-300 as well as Chinese air defense SAM systems. While limited, it is certainly not nil nor impotent. And the truth is, Washington really does not know how effective Iran’s air defenses are. It won’t be free. Washington will blow up things; kill some people; but they will lose some jets and pilots; and in the end have negligible military effect. It will not accomplish any strategic objective. Not to mention Iran has hardened and secured its most important targets. And of course Iran has tactically scattered its military targets and missile launch locations strategically throughout its very large and mountainous terrain in hard to reach and protected locales. Additionally cheap decoys are probably being used and will certainly be implemented to saturate Washington;s ability to strike targets.

    Meanwhile Washington has provided plenty of near targets for retaliation. Response would be asymmetrical. Even if Washington launches strikes from near bases, it has 2 aircraft carriers and twenty ships as sitting targets in the Persian gulf for the attack boats and the anti-ship ballistic missiles. In addition Washington has extended plenty of nearby targets in Iraq, Afghanistan and throughout the middle east. Iran has the Sejjil missiles that can reach throughout the middle east. Then there is supplying Shia militia throughout the middle east. Iraq is now an ally of Iran, Shia controlled, and majority Shia. Iran could easily supply Shia militia in Iraq, as well as militia in Afghanistan, wreaking havoc for Washington in the middle east. And then of course there is Hezbollah - man per man perhaps the most effective ground fighting force in the middle east. The only force to take on Israel head to head and against odds and deliver Israel a humiliating defeat. Now Hezbollah is equipped with modern high tech smaller missiles. Response would be asymmetrical and unending. Any air attack on Iran would not come without costs.

    Then of course even Washington does not dispute that Iran has the capacity to shut down the Strait of Hormuz - trapping any Washington ships and shutting off vital shipping lanes from Saudi Arabia.

    So of course Washington can drop lots of bombs, but they will not achieve any positive outcome and not come out unscathed.

    Could Washington defeat Iran - yes but it would require all out invasion at great costs and over extended period - years. It could in fact break the world’s largest debtor government and floundering economy. It would also likely break holds on Washington's empire elsewhere from the near occupied Iraq and Afghanistan to elsewhere.

    Washington has already burned an eye popping $10+ trillion of US wealth on its recent middle east warmongering. An attack on Iran can easily triple that. It is a foreign policy of impoverish Americans.

    Here are some interesting analyses of how a Washington attack on Iran may play out.
    http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/02/08/us-iran-brink-armed-conflict-war-scenario-and-consequences.html
    https://thesaker.is/us-vs-iran-a-war-of-apples-vs-oranges/
    https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/expect-war-iran
    https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-02-...an-troops-iraq
    Last edited by AZJoe; 04-30-2017 at 09:20 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.



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  20. #17
    US aircraft carrier off Iranian coast complains that Iran is watching it

    The USS George H.W. Bush, an American aircraft carrier parked perpetually off the coast of Iran, appears to have attracted the attention of Iran, and officials say that Iran’s use of surveillance drones to keep an eye on the massive US warship is a “nuisance.”
    Officials also hyped the presence of small Iranian naval boats operating off the coast of Iran, claiming them to be “naked aggression” for sometimes being close to the US carrier, despite also appearing to have never actually left Iranian waters by all indications. ...
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The Iranian AF has 161 fighters, over half of which date from the 1950s (mostly US-made, delivered pre-revolution): inferior to the compliment of a single US carrier. The Iraqi AF in 1990 was about 5 times larger and contained similarly outdated fighters (a large part of the current Iranian AF actually consists of Iraqi planes that escaped to Iran during the war). Iranian air defense would have to rely almost entirely on SAMs, of which they only have a couple dozen modern systems (including 9 S-300s), which have never been tested against 4th/5th generation fighters: the remainder being the same 1960s/70s vintage stuff that the USAF rolled over in the First Gulf War.

    The US would gain air superiority as quickly and easily as in the First Gulf War, IMO.



    Yes, inexpensive, mobile anti-ship-missiles have made near shore operations for surface vessels suicidal.

    But the US could just as well use air bases on land: in Bahrain, the KSA, Iraq, or Afghanistan.



    My point is that the conventional Iranian military (any planes, tanks, airfields, barracks, ships, dock, etc, etc) would be obliterated from the air just as in Saddam's Iraq. Actually invading and occupying the country is another matter entirely. As I indicated in my earlier post, it would be a catastrophe, much worse than Iraq.



    If the US were stupid enough to fight a major ground war in Iran, I imagine Russia/China would feed the insurgents weapons as the US did in Afghanistan in the 80s.
    Just how we obliterated ISIS and ALQuada before them? Without obliterating civilians you can not hope to defeat a military.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    Americans in general are jedi masters of blaming every other person.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    Just how we obliterated ISIS and ALQuada before them? Without obliterating civilians you can not hope to defeat a military.
    ISIS and Al Qaeda were both US setups and have never been obliterated.
    There is no spoon.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    US aircraft carrier off Iranian coast complains that Iran is watching it

    The USS George H.W. Bush, an American aircraft carrier parked perpetually off the coast of Iran, appears to have attracted the attention of Iran, and officials say that Iran’s use of surveillance drones to keep an eye on the massive US warship is a “nuisance.”
    Officials also hyped the presence of small Iranian naval boats operating off the coast of Iran, claiming them to be “naked aggression” for sometimes being close to the US carrier, despite also appearing to have never actually left Iranian waters by all indications. ...
    What sheer and utter nonsense- and I'd +rep ya if I could.
    There is no spoon.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    What sheer and utter nonsense- and I'd +rep ya if I could.
    got it.

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    ISIS and Al Qaeda were both US setups and have never been obliterated.


    You the one that does not believe in IQ? I can see why...
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    Americans in general are jedi masters of blaming every other person.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post


    You the one that does not believe in IQ? I can see why...
    Best get some edumacation- this is not rocket science.
    There is no spoon.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    ISIS and Al Qaeda were both US setups and have never been obliterated.
    You should think about the number of jobs created in the process of "fighting" them.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The US could obliterate Iran's conventional forces very rapidly and at virtually no cost -
    Not so. Realistically.

    Iran learned a great deal defeating attacks. They have been doing so for a long time. What they lack in Offensive weapons has been wisely spent on Defensive ones.

    They Have and have used anti stealth tech. Meaning Stealth is Useless junk.
    They have multi layered Defenses.
    They can close the Straight of Hormuz at will. They own it.
    They have on hand the ability to sink every naval asset within 200 miles of their coast,, inside of 15 minutes.


    all bluster aside.. It will be a massive bloodbath for any attacker.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
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  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    We, the people. Do we have a representative in the government or not?

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    Just how we obliterated ISIS and ALQuada before them? Without obliterating civilians you can not hope to defeat a military.
    AQ never had a military. ISIS does, sort of, but the US never really attacked them (too busy arming them).

    As I indicated previously, guerilla wars may be unwinnable. My point was about conventional wars.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    They Have and have used anti stealth tech. Meaning Stealth is Useless junk.
    That's highly optimistic, from the Iranian POV.

    The US AF spends 3x per year more than the entire Iranian military.

    They can close the Straight of Hormuz at will. They own it.
    In terms of being able to close the straight to commercial shipping, that's true.

    ....you only need to raise the risk high enough that Lloyd's won't insure anything.

    But, again, this is not what I was talking about. I was talking about the ability of the US military obliterate the conventional Iranian military.

    They have on hand the ability to sink every naval asset within 200 miles of their coast,, inside of 15 minutes.
    Not true. More like, they have the ability to menace such vessels. China has the ability to do what you're talking about.

    But in the Iranian case, the US can simply use land bases around the area.

    Remember this?



    all bluster aside.. It will be a massive bloodbath for any attacker.
    If the goal were occupation, yes, it would be much worse than Iraq (as I said).

  33. #29
    //
    Last edited by Jamesiv1; 05-08-2017 at 02:54 PM.
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
    9. Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    AQ never had a military. ISIS does, sort of, but the US never really attacked them (too busy arming them).

    As I indicated previously, guerilla wars may be unwinnable. My point was about conventional wars.
    Unless you prepared to exterminated Iranians you will deal with endless waves of their conventional troops. If much weaker opponent then them strained our military to the breaking point what do you think foolishness with them will do?

    Here are some news we seen lately.

    Yemen Iran supplied cruise missiles keep causing damage upon Saudis and US.
    We had problem with making enough bombs years back when we were in Iraq and Afghanistan.
    We have problems treating all out vets after Iraq and Afghanistan.
    We still lose troops to dudes with AK47s.
    We bombed and air field and thin layer of concrete almost neutralized our missiles.
    Iran has military bases in mountains. With steel doors and etc. Not some soviet era cave base in Afghanistan.
    20 trillion in debt and no end in sight of increased spending.

    How long do you think we can maintain a campaign under these facts? How effective you think we will be considering 10 years later Afghanistan and Iraq are a mess?

    There is only two ways to win this war, and right now anyone in the west who would give this order would be lynched. Nukes or civilian targets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    Americans in general are jedi masters of blaming every other person.



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