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Thread: Senate Votes to Let ISPs Sell Your Data Without Consent

  1. #1

    Senate Votes to Let ISPs Sell Your Data Without Consent

    I think Rand was absent but dont think it would have made a difference.

    Senate Votes to Let ISPs Sell Your Data Without Consent.

    The Senate took the first step Thursday toward blocking rules that would restrict how some big tech companies share and sell your personal data, a prospect that digital activists said would be a huge loss for online privacy.

    On a party-line vote of 50-48, the Senate passed a joint resolution that would bar the Federal Communications Commission from enforcing rules it approved last year — when it was under Democratic control — that sought to ban internet service providers like cable and cellphone companies from selling your data without your consent.

    If it becomes law, the measure, in effect, would preserve a two-track regulatory system that treats ISPs — the companies that connect you to the internet, which are overseen by the FCC — differently from web companies like Google and Facebook, which are regulated by the Federal Trade Commission.

    The rules passed last year by the Democratic majority on the FCC would require ISPs to ask you explicitly to "opt in" to letting them share personal information. On web-based ad networks, data sharing is usually turned on by default and you have to dig through menus and setting and opt out of it.
    "An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government" - Ron Paul.

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  3. #2
    Sounds like a profit opportunity for new companies that will protect our data.

  4. #3
    The FCC is now ran by a past lawyer for Verizon. Not surprising at all that big telco wants to make more money no matter what.

    I have two thoughts on this :

    - It is sad that it appears a democrat appointed FCC is better for our privacy.

    - I want to start buying the browsing history of every politician. So many chances to humiliate them. I can't wait to see the first campaign attack ad that uses someone's browser history and what porn sites they visit.
    Last edited by kpitcher; 03-23-2017 at 09:54 PM.
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  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher View Post
    The FCC is now ran by a past lawyer for Verizon.
    Impossible. There is no swamp anymore. It was drained. the_donald told me so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by anaconda View Post
    Sounds like a profit opportunity for new companies that will protect our data.
    There is no way to protect your data against an adversary who copies everything and can issue subpoenas.

  7. #6
    Is this something the government should be regulating anyways, especially at the federal level?


    If you don't like the privacy provisions of your ISP's contract, then go to another ISP. Granted most ISPs are government-created cartel/monopolies in the first place, but you get my jist.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Is this something the government should be regulating anyways, especially at the federal level?


    If you don't like the privacy provisions of your ISP's contract, then go to another ISP. Granted most ISPs are government-created cartel/monopolies in the first place, but you get my jist.
    Very few options left. Mostly any decent internet by current standards are, as you said Matt, government-created cartel/monopolies, and far too often there is only one option available for a lot of people. Thus, either have internet, or none at all. Im starting to think none at all is the real choice people should lean towards.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by unknown View Post
    I think Rand was absent but dont think it would have made a difference.
    yeah no change in current law, but I see the ISP industry might turn into a data mining operation that can and will be abused by the feds.
    Not Voting - 2
    Isakson (R-GA)
    Paul (R-KY)



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  11. #9
    Why not use a VPN service located in another country?
    “…I believe that at this point in history, the greatest danger to our freedom and way of life comes from the reasonable fear of omniscient State powers kept in check by nothing more than policy documents.”

  12. #10
    The big question is, who actually owns the data to begin with?
    THE SQUAD of RPF
    1. enhanced_deficit - Paid Troll / John Bolton book promoter
    2. Devil21 - LARPing Wizard, fake magical script reader
    3. Firestarter - Tax Troll; anti-tax = "criminal behavior"
    4. TheCount - Comet Pizza Pedo Denier <-- sick

    @Ehanced_Deficit's real agenda on RPF =troll:

    Who spends this much time copy/pasting the same recycled links, photos/talking points.

    7 yrs/25k posts later RPF'ers still respond to this troll

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    The big question is, who actually owns the data to begin with?
    Al Gore, the guy who invented the Internet (as a government tool to control the population).

  14. #12
    Hopefully once Google can make even more money off of people's data, they can ramp their fiber deployments back up.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    If you don't like the privacy provisions of your ISP's contract, then go to another ISP.
    "Privacy provisions of your ISP's contract."

    That sounds a lot like another way of saying "consent," which is what this Senate action apparently said your ISP doesn't need.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Is this something the government should be regulating anyways, especially at the federal level?


    If you don't like the privacy provisions of your ISP's contract, then go to another ISP. Granted most ISPs are government-created cartel/monopolies in the first place, but you get my jist.
    Your "jist" is pretty much the long and the short of it.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by DGambler View Post
    Why not use a VPN service located in another country?
    It's an added expense and the average consumer won't bother.

    Besides, more and more things are country specific and/or are getting better at detecting a VPN. If I want to netflix something I'd have to turn off the VPN for that stream but continue to VPN everything else. Again the average consumer will have trouble so won't bother.

    I was in the ISP industry for over a decade, once big telco decided they wanted to control the customer, the lobbyists made sure most ISPs didn't last. A few niche players but really you at best get a choice of 2 - your telephone company or your cable company.
    “…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned

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  18. #16
    Then what the $#@! do we do? What are our options? Already came out that the $#@!ers have access prior to full boot on iPhones, I wouldn't be surprised if that includes Android, Macs, Windows.

    I'd use Linux, but the rest of the household won't... Would hop all over a Linux phone.

    Don't want to sound defeatist, but we're $#@!ed unless everyone starts using a meshnet.
    “…I believe that at this point in history, the greatest danger to our freedom and way of life comes from the reasonable fear of omniscient State powers kept in check by nothing more than policy documents.”



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by DGambler View Post
    Why not use a VPN service located in another country?
    Or just a no-logger like PrivateInternetAccess

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Or just a no-logger like PrivateInternetAccess
    or switch to incognito mode (just kidding)
    Last edited by timosman; 04-02-2017 at 03:51 PM.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    or switch to incognito mode
    Incognito Mode has no affect on ISP logs, only on cookies and such. There are a large variety of countermeasures you can take. I actively employ several anti-tracking technologies, including garbling my browser fingerprint. To be effective, a VPN doesn't have to be outside the US (although PIA has exit points outside the US) it just has to be a no-logger. They can comply with Federal seizure requests all day long because they have no data to provide.

    ETA - the only thing Charter gets from me is encrypted traffic to a local VPN node. Only occasionally do I have to shutter my VPN for some sites, but that is very rare so far.

  23. #20
    VPN + US proxy who accept bitcoin, though if the IP can be identified as a known proxy, they could block service. Rather than fight abuse as it happens (like doing 100 searches a second), some places just block proxies. They also block IPs from entire continents.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  24. #21
    The solution is for people to take back control of their rights-of-way from the duopolies.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by DGambler View Post
    Then what the $#@! do we do? What are our options? Already came out that the $#@!ers have access prior to full boot on iPhones, I wouldn't be surprised if that includes Android, Macs, Windows.

    I'd use Linux, but the rest of the household won't... Would hop all over a Linux phone.

    Don't want to sound defeatist, but we're $#@!ed unless everyone starts using a meshnet.
    It doesn't matter if you use Linux, Iphone, Android, Windows, Mac, etc. If it's plain traffic to the net your ISP can identify what website you're going to, or service you're using and then sell that information.

    The best you can do is use a VPN service that means all traffic from your home/business/whatever is encrypted to the VPN service. Your ISP won't have a clue what it is.

    The downside : Cost of having a VPN, having to use a VPN client, and maybe getting blocked from netflix if you're using a VPN.

    Minor Upside: If you ever connect to an open hotspot and do something like check email or banking, a VPN will protect you from getting sniffed
    “…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned

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  26. #23
    Its always funny when the anti-govt people get butthurt and start demanding the govt protect them from companies and voluntary contracts.

    anyways,
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN1722D6

    Comcast Corp, Verizon Communications Inc and AT&T Inc said Friday they would not sell customers’ individual internet browsing information, days after the U.S. Congress approved legislation reversing Obama administration era internet privacy rules.

    The bill would repeal regulations adopted in October by the Federal Communications Commission under former President Barack Obama requiring internet service providers to do more to protect customers' privacy than websites like Alphabet Inc's Google or Facebook Inc.

    The easing of restrictions has sparked growing anger on social media sites.

    "We do not sell our broadband customers’ individual web browsing history. We did not do it before the FCC’s rules were adopted, and we have no plans to do so," said Gerard Lewis, Comcast's chief privacy officer.

    He added Comcast is revising its privacy policy to make more clear that "we do not sell our customers’ individual web browsing information to third parties."

    Verizon does not sell personal web browsing histories and has no plans to do so in the future, said spokesman Richard Young.

    Verizon privacy officer Karen Zacharia said in a blog post Friday the company has two programs that use customer browsing data. One allows marketers to access "de-identified information to determine which customers fit into groups that advertisers are trying to reach" while the other "provides aggregate insights that might be useful for advertisers and other businesses."
    ...
    It sounds to me like this was a good repeal, the federal government doesn't need to be meddling in the relationship between user and ISP, makes things more out in the open and the companies get to voluntarily give into their customers demands for privacy.

  27. #24



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by KrokHead View Post
    Obviously this is not good.
    What, precisely, is not good?

  30. #26
    People, use a VPN! PIA is what I recommend (as Gunny mentioned). There are several others that are very good as well. It's simple and definitely worth the cost IMO ($40/year).

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Its always funny when the anti-govt people get butthurt and start demanding the govt protect them from companies and voluntary contracts.

    anyways,
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN1722D6


    It sounds to me like this was a good repeal, the federal government doesn't need to be meddling in the relationship between user and ISP, makes things more out in the open and the companies get to voluntarily give into their customers demands for privacy.
    How long will the current policies last? Trouble is even if these mega corporations dont change their privacy policies in the next few years, the internet is going to be around for a long long while (hopefully) and what do our kids do? What do our grandchildren do? The current swamp sold us out, and I have very little confidence that in the next 50 years that this law will ever be challenged and / or repealed by another administration.

    Now lets say the ISPs do change their privacy policies. What kind of warning or information is made available to the people they service that such changes are made? Since it will be very unpopular (as of right now with this hot potato of a story) they may wait a few months or years to change their policies to enable profiteering by privacy invading.

    Without privacy, corporations have a financial incentive to subjectively interpret as many actions as they can as "wrong" so it costs you more and does not raise their overhead.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by youngbuck View Post
    People, use a VPN! PIA is what I recommend (as Gunny mentioned). There are several others that are very good as well. It's simple and definitely worth the cost IMO ($40/year).
    Recommendations?
    “…I believe that at this point in history, the greatest danger to our freedom and way of life comes from the reasonable fear of omniscient State powers kept in check by nothing more than policy documents.”

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    How long will the current policies last? Trouble is even if these mega corporations dont change their privacy policies in the next few years, the internet is going to be around for a long long while (hopefully) and what do our kids do? What do our grandchildren do? The current swamp sold us out, and I have very little confidence that in the next 50 years that this law will ever be challenged and / or repealed by another administration.

    Now lets say the ISPs do change their privacy policies. What kind of warning or information is made available to the people they service that such changes are made? Since it will be very unpopular (as of right now with this hot potato of a story) they may wait a few months or years to change their policies to enable profiteering by privacy invading.

    Without privacy, corporations have a financial incentive to subjectively interpret as many actions as they can as "wrong" so it costs you more and does not raise their overhead.
    So are you seriously arguing for federal government intervention to insure your privacy? You can't handle making agreements and contracts on your own?

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Now lets say the ISPs do change their privacy policies. What kind of warning or information is made available to the people they service that such changes are made? Since it will be very unpopular (as of right now with this hot potato of a story) they may wait a few months or years to change their policies to enable profiteering by privacy invading.
    BLING! (random email chime) Greetings from Charter Internet! We are enacting a new privacy policy as of August 1st 2017. Please review the changes at wwwdotcharterdotcomslashprivacy at your convenience, and thank you for being a Charter customer!

    Without privacy, corporations have a financial incentive to subjectively interpret as many actions as they can as "wrong" so it costs you more and does not raise their overhead.
    I dunno man, these companies went like 20 years BEFORE the Obama regulations were enacted and they never did any of this shady crap then, so why would they suddenly start doing it now that those regs got repealed?

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