Are military members who "Serve our Country" Misguided?

[Son_of_Liberty90]

Very controversial idea, sure to be political poison to any candidate who mentions it in the current political arena.

BUT - what do you think?

Based on statements by military veterans and current active duty I've spoken to, they say if you want to serve, it should be done no matter who is in charge (aka presidential administration, Republican/democrat - does not matter). You do it out of pride to serve your country and defend it.

We hear and read about very impressive feats of courage by medal of honor recipients and other military medals of valor. These are brave and determined individuals, and the people they saved would attest to that.

But are they fighting for the wrong cause? It seems like they could be putting their mental toughness, courage, and stamina into efforts at home fighting corruption within the government instead of fighting proxy wars overseas. Against the "domestic" enemies in their oath.

Of course, fighting for liberty at the home front is not as sexy, because you don't get to travel or receive thousands of dollars worth of training in the art of war. But that is a complete judgment on my part, and I can't read their minds.

Am I getting off track here or is my point materializing a bit?

Feel free to comment and discuss.

[danda]

misguided, yes.

[Son_of_Liberty90]

misguided, yes.

Thanks for contributing. If that is the case, how can they get informed?

[presence]

[Jamesiv1]

You do it out of pride to serve your country and defend it.

DEFEND, not AGGRESS.

That's the misguided part. Can't blame the troops, though... Blame TPTB.

[Son_of_Liberty90]

DEFEND, not AGGRESS.

That's the misguided part. Can't blame the troops, though... Blame TPTB.

Why not? They volunteered -- some who join the SpecOps community in particular have PhDs, very intelligent individuals.

They can't be absolved of blame.

You could make the argument that because of their volunteer service, there is no draft.

[staerker]

Very controversial idea, sure to be political poison to any candidate who mentions it in the current political arena.

BUT - what do you think?

Based on statements by military veterans and current active duty I've spoken to, they say if you want to serve, it should be done no matter who is in charge (aka presidential administration, Republican/democrat - does not matter).

Every person is individually responsible for their actions, and each action you take either serves good or evil. To blindly take order from just anyone is unwise.

You do it out of pride to serve your country and defend it.

You are only defending your country if your actions directly affect that outcome. Not a single person in the military is currently doing that. They are expanding the empire.

We hear and read about very impressive feats of courage by medal of honor recipients and other military medals of valor. These are brave and determined individuals, and the people they saved would attest to that.

[...]

Of course, fighting for liberty at the home front is not as sexy, because you don't get to travel or receive thousands of dollars worth of training in the art of war. But that is a complete judgment on my part, and I can't read their minds.

That is my personal experience, which is obviously anecdotal. The military generally attracts people addicted to praise and respect, there is no reasoning.

[Zippyjuan]

It seems like they could be putting their mental toughness, courage, and stamina into efforts at home fighting corruption within the government instead of fighting proxy wars overseas.

Military coup perhaps?

"It's not just a job- it's an adventure!"

(noting also that the members of the military volunteered to serve- they weren't forced to join like if we had a draft again).

[Son_of_Liberty90]

That is my personal experience, which is obviously anecdotal. The military generally attracts people addicted to praise and respect, there is no reasoning.

And at the same time, whenever they talk of their actions they appear very humble, always praising the action of others instead of themselves:

See, for example:

[sparebulb]

Misguided?

As in "mal" guided?

Your answer resides in the White House.

[Ronin Truth]

Almost all of them are just serving the government. Who is the country sending them to fight?

"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." -- Edward Abbey

[oyarde]

Why not? They volunteered -- some who join the SpecOps community in particular have PhDs, very intelligent individuals.

They can't be absolved of blame.

You could make the argument that because of their volunteer service, there is no draft.

PHD's ? What would that be , Major and above ?

[euphemia]

Every country needs a defensive military. It is not the fault of those who sign up. Some people are cut out for that life. We need people trained and mobilized so that we never have a draft again.

The problem is we have a government that does understand the purpose of our military and they misuse the talent we have.

Part of that equation needs to change.

[Son_of_Liberty90]

Every country needs a defensive military. It is not the fault of those who sign up. Some people are cut out for that life. We need people trained and mobilized so that we never have a draft again.

The problem is we have a government that does understand the purpose of our military and they misuse the talent we have.

Part of that equation needs to change.

How do we change it?

[Son_of_Liberty90]

PHD's ? What would that be , Major and above ?

No, some enter in as 2nd lieutenants with PhD's. At least thats been the case with some in Special Operations

[oyarde]

No, some enter in as 2nd lieutenants with PhD's. At least thats been the case with some in Special Operations

It has been a long time for me , but I rarely meet anyone ( enlisted men ) with anything more than a yr or two of secondary education and that was uncommon . I never asked any officers about education , although some of them would mention it if there was a conversation about football , basketball , etc

[Christian Liberty]

I think its a mistake under current conditions, both because the military takes an oath to a constitution that puts sovereignty in the hands of men rather than Christ, and because our war policy is nowhere near humane or Christian.

[oyarde]

Every person is individually responsible for their actions, and each action you take either serves good or evil. To blindly take order from just anyone is unwise.



You are only defending your country if your actions directly affect that outcome. Not a single person in the military is currently doing that. They are expanding the empire.



That is my personal experience, which is obviously anecdotal. The military generally attracts people addicted to praise and respect, there is no reasoning.

About all the guys who worked for me and myself were the exact opposite of this .People who were gladly anonymous and shunned praise .

[Cleaner44]

I am proud of the job that I did, but I have recommended that my children not join. Serving in the military is a sure fire way to learn first hand why government budgets always go up.

Misguided? I don't know.

[Son_of_Liberty90]

It has been a long time for me , but I rarely meet anyone ( enlisted men ) with anything more than a yr or two of secondary education and that was uncommon . I never asked any officers about education , although some of them would mention it if there was a conversation about football , basketball , etc

Well with how competitive it is to become an officer today, I've read online accounts from those desiring to serve after their 4 years bachelors end up entering as enlisted if they cant make the officer cut.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

I think it's funny that the military has this monopoly on the words "serve" and "in the service."

I think everyone in this world is called to serve in some way. There are practically countless was to serve, whether in a job, your family, volunteering, or some other endeavor. Sometimes serving is just in your personal interaction with others.



***************************

I am currently on the Yahoo Answers Military sub-forum. It's quite an education. There are A LOT of guys joining the military because they are at a dead end in life for various reasons. They simply talk about all the "free" stuff and benefits they can get.

I really think most of them don't care about anything "guided." They just fill in the blanks for a job and swallow the lines: "Fighting for our freedoms," "They hate us for our freedoms," "The wolf growls at the door." "North Korea needs to be nuked," "People crossing the Mexican border should be shot," etc.

I am not exaggerating when I say that some of these guys sounds like the desperate Jihadists you so often hear about in other countries.

[presence]

Every person is individually responsible for their actions, and each action you take either serves good or evil. To blindly take order from just anyone is unwise.

I think part of the problem is that the common GI joe, at age 18, can't label the middle east on a political map, let alone have intelligent discussion with you on the history of the region. Its hard to pinpoint right and wrong when your only understanding of the subject is one sided propaganda you're fed through Dept of Education and then obliged to take as gospel when you join the Dept of War. But 4 years "service" in exchange for bills paid in a $#@!ty pump and dump fiat economy and free college education is difficult to turn down for an opportunity to ostensibly "defend your country" with honor.

Ain't got no job. Not qualified for college scholarship. Mom and dad want me out.... and Sgt Zimmerman the recruiter says I can become Captain America and everyone will love me + free candy!

I am not exaggerating when I say that some of these guys sounds like the desperate Jihadists you so often hear about in other countries.

unfortunate as it is... all too true

[Ronin Truth]

There are some pretty nefarious reasons why the government wants young men at the peak of their "testosterone poisoning" years.

It also goes to on explain some other groupthink, herd mentality 'gang affiliations' we commonly observe.

[JK/SEA]

yep...economics drives the recruitment train...poor education, job opportunities, or lack thereof, coupled with the usual macho desire to 'serve' the country...

[staerker]

About all the guys who worked for me and myself were the exact opposite of this .People who were gladly anonymous and shunned praise .

Yup, it could merely be selection bias.

[Ronin Truth]

War is a racket!

"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY." -- Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg Trials

[buenijo]

Based on statements by military veterans and current active duty I've spoken to, they say if you want to serve, it should be done no matter who is in charge (aka presidential administration, Republican/democrat - does not matter). You do it out of pride to serve your country and defend it.

But are they fighting for the wrong cause? It seems like they could be putting their mental toughness, courage, and stamina into efforts at home fighting corruption within the government instead of fighting proxy wars overseas. Against the "domestic" enemies in their oath.

Feel free to comment and discuss.

People "serve" in the military primarily to receive a paycheck and/or an early retirement check. Pride has little to do with it. For many, it's among the best alternatives available. The bottom line is most of us accept whatever rationalizations are most convenient to stay on whatever paths we believe to benefit us personally. Very few are influenced by moral considerations - and most can bend their morals sufficiently to rationalize almost any act. We live in an age of pragmatism. Most choose to believe whatever is most convenient, and most choose to disregard and/or ridicule anything that rocks their boats.

[Son_of_Liberty90]

People "serve" in the military primarily to receive a paycheck and/or an early retirement check. Pride has little to do with it. For many, it's among the best alternatives available. The bottom line is most of us accept whatever rationalizations are most convenient to stay on whatever paths we believe to benefit us personally. Very few are influenced by moral considerations - and most can bend their morals sufficiently to rationalize almost any act. We live in an age of pragmatism. Most choose to believe whatever is most convenient, and most choose to disregard and/or ridicule anything that rocks their boats.

That makes sense for low skilled jobs, but what about those who struggle through the rigors of more advanced training like the SEALs or Green Berets? Something else has to fuel them through that grueling training besides collecting a paycheck.

[pcosmar]

DEFEND, not AGGRESS.

That's the misguided part. Can't blame the troops, though... Blame TPTB.

The troops are taught it from childhood through schools.
They have twisted and misdirected the natural instinct to protect and defend and use it to control (police) and aggress (Military)

We the People need to once again do what the social controllers have been teaching us is wrong.

We need to take the law into our own hands.

Present hands are clearly unsuited

[Rad]

The military gave Ron Paul a lot of money for his Presidential campaigns. Its a job for the poor. Chalmers Johnson said Jessica Lynch went into the military for economic reasons. She said so herself. There was no opportunity at home so she went into the military.