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"An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government" - Ron Paul.
"To learn who rules over you simply find out who you arent allowed to criticize."
I'd say that there are definitely die-hard Trump supporters on the forum, but I think a lot of what people are happy about is that any kind of action against perceived corruption was taken. Trump has definitely perpetuated his fair share of corruption, but that still doesn't mean that there wasn't a concerted effort to suppress him in the election.
You can argue both ways whether or not election fraud happened on a scale that flipped the results in Biden's favor, but the nature of society today seems to be one not of discourse, but of screaming about canceling, conspiracy theorists, Russians, triggers, no-platforming, and that words are literal violence; so it's not like there's going to be an open space to look at what happened. This kind of environment is a perfect storm. People who feel cheated have no recourse, and the people who dislike them are bound and determined to not let them speak, either in the MSM or on social media.
Usually, people are content to wage an Internet war over opinions and facts before retreating into their echo chambers to reinforce to one another why they feel right, but what happened yesterday (and, arguably, all throughout the summer, whether you agree the police are out of control or that black people have it worse that white people) showed that Americans aren't quite yet a people ready to be an army of keyboard warriors who never face corruption outside of creating new hashtags for Twitter.
The country is at a breaking point, and a group of people who felt that they had been cheated and that the corruption ran too deep decided to do something about it. Was it effective? Probably not. Were there plants there? Definitely. But I think some of us are just encouraged that some decided to say something in a way that the media couldn't ignore.
Granted, now they'll likely be branded as terrorists (yet Antifa and BLM are considered peaceful...), and their actions may even turn out counterproductive, but it was definitely a change of pace.
As for your larger question, "What happened to RPF?" After the 2016 election, it forgot that it was a libertarian-leaning site where people believed in small government and no one cared if you were liberal or conservative on most social positions. Now I'm not on nearly as much as I used to be because it's definitely turned into a conservative-only site where everything is about suppressing the libs and dems.
Those were important events. But the details of how they fit into the events of the American Revolution matter, and in turn so does the question of how reflective they are of any of the men we would typically consider "founding fathers."
No founding fathers participated directly in the Boston Massacre. And in the aftermath of it, founding father John Adams defended the British soldiers in court for having acted reasonably in response to agitators who I think we could compare to the Antifa stormers of the Capitol.
Did any founding fathers participate in the Boston Tea Party itself? As far as I know (and I'm no expert) history is unclear about Sam Adams' role in it. There's a popular story that has him as a major instigator who gave the signal to invade the ship. But its historicity is very suspect. It seems to me that the proper way to see the Boston Tea Party in the context of the Revolution is as an incitement for Britain to pass the Intolerable Acts, which in turn incentivized further rebellion in the colonies, but not as an act of the founding fathers.
No simpleton,
The people of whom I speak don't generally engage in politics, they have tended to leave politics to those with a vested interest.
Surely you've heard of the 40-50% of the population that doesn't vote.
Stop trying to pigeonhole me into a political faction, you'll fail miserably.
Government is broken and the people yesterday just pulled the veil back a little further.
Eyes were opened whether you realize it or not.
https://www.mom-at-arms.com/post/how...-in-4-pictures
Well to me some good came from yesterday.
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty.
Ron Paul 2012
In order to frame this as any kind of action against perceived corruption, there has to be some connection between the action and the perceived corruption that goes deeper than that the perceived corruption merely caused the emotions that welled up in this action.
If I get unjustly fired and then get upset about it and punch a wall and break my fingers, that punching of the wall is not in any sense an action against my unjust firing.
This storming of the Capitol is no better.
In fact, look at how it actually related to actions that really did have to do with the perceived corruption. This happened on the very day that Congress was supposed to debate the merits of objections to slates of electors from several states. Those debates at least stood the chance of exposing corruption. The effects that storming the Capitol had on those more substantive actions that actually did relate to the perceived corruption were fourfold: it interrupted them, it forestalled them, it shortened them, and it drew away any attention that would have been paid to them. Meanwhile, the storming of the Capitol itself didn't address the perceived corruption in any way whatsoever.
I belong to that 40-50%. The only opening of eyes that has happened to people in this group is the increased awareness of how bad Trump and his more zealous followers are.
Your assertion about eyes being opened is just baseless dreaming on your part. Even your response to me betrays that. You haven't actually seen any eyes getting opened to anything by this. You just believe it because you wish it to be so.
I don't know where you got the idea that I was pigeon holing you into a political faction. But you won't find any basis for that inference in anything I actually said.
Last edited by Invisible Man; 01-07-2021 at 09:23 AM.
I appreciate the kind words, and I wish I could do that.
But it first takes action before action can be guided into something more positive, in cases like this.
I agree about the state capitols as well...I would love to see that, and at cop shops, and at citadels of government power everywhere.
Imagine a 1000 Bundy ranches every day.
Last edited by Anti Federalist; 01-07-2021 at 10:50 AM.
Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11
Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11
What's more, the U.S. federal government cannot "represent" them, even if it sincerely wanted to. (It doesn't want to, of course, but even if it did ...)
It is simply not possible for a continent-spanning populace of a third of a billion people to be "represented" in any significant and meaningful way.
At best, democracy on such a scale merely conjures the illusion of "representation" as a facade for the executive plantation that actually runs things.
Over time, it can produce only an increasingly ridiculous farce that is as increasingly obvious as it is increasingly absurd.
And when the farce of democracy can no longer be maintained under the weight of its own absurdity, it is apt to be replaced by something even more illiberal and nakedly authoritarian.
The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)
- "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
-- The Law (p. 54)- "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
-- Government (p. 99)- "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
-- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)- "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
-- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)· tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
Sure thing.
1: Google, of course, is acting funny for me. My search results appear to be skewed (particularly when I select their "News" category as everything listed is articles from yesterday's events despite my queries...), and I had to dig several pages in to bring up items that I know are covered elsewhere (RT, Al Jazeera in some cases, alternative news, etc.). I should also clarify when I said state department, what I really should have said was U.S. gov't and related institutions in general.
https://www.state.gov/supporting-iranian-voices/
https://www.state.gov/condemning-sha...stern-ukraine/
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/15/world/15aid.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinio...ko-ncna1237472
I pulled up more sources than that stemming from the white house website when Obama/Biden were "running" things, particularly with regards to Ukraine, Russia, etc. and how the U.S. "stood with the people" blah, blah, blah. But, this should be a start, right? Otherwise, I would highly encourage you to partake the journey of seeking these things out yourself. After all, I don't need convincing, I know what I've heard and seen. If you need help, start with Belarus and their color revolution. That should be easy considering many of the MSM outlets were on board with it.
2: No, I do not. Barring the fact that I am here and have quite a history here and with the liberty movement, no, I don't support regime changes, color revolutions, U.S. military expeditions abroad, etc. It was simply an example of the utter hypocrisy and propaganda we undergo in this country.
Welcome to the R3VOLUTION!
Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11
Uh, because most of us here clearly don't believe the fake news media like you do.
Trump wished Ghislaine well because he wanted her to stay alive, unlike Epstein, so she can testify against the deep state people she had blackmailed - although it is very possible, and many believe that Epstein is alive in witness protection, his death being a false flaggy kinda joke against the Clintons.
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
No need to convince me here, but I'm also trying to start instituting this idea with family and friends.
Tucker Carlson (I do not watch Fox News, I only watched a snippit of his segment from last night) said America is made up of twins who can't be separated unless one kills the other. I'm not sure this is true and we can debate it until we're blue in the face but I do believe a few things in regard to secession and the U.S. today.
-We are not as homogenous as we used to be.
-We are not as religious/spiritual as we used to be.
-The common language of English has been de-prioritized on many fronts (I'm not arguing the merits of this, just stating something I believe has happened).
-We are a country of 330 million people ruled by two parties (really one in the grand scheme of things).
-The House of Representatives hasn't been appropriately expanded to accommodate population growth. (EDIT: just got to the argument in the video about this and it may now be a moot point)
I could go on, but I think that sums it up. Did you start a thread for this? Probably best to take this greater conversation to its own dedicated thread.
Last edited by Okie RP fan; 01-07-2021 at 11:00 AM.
Welcome to the R3VOLUTION!
It is not...I could not say it better.It is simply not possible for a continent-spanning populace of a third of a billion people to be "represented" in any significant and meaningful way.
That statement trebles in truth when you add to that the fact that the third of a billion people in question, are now, through deliberate treachery designed to end exactly as stated, with a collapse of "liberal democracy" into authoritarianism and absolute despotism, have become so disparate and utterly at odds with each other, the founding vision of the nation and it's history, so as to be, literally, at war with herself.
Separate or Die.
Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11
Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11
Conversations with friends-n-family that span the continent, actual telephone conversations, have lead me to make my assertion.
Granted the cross-section is small but the geographical and socioeconomic breadth is wide.
"People" are looking at government and media in a new light, at least as far as I can tell once I'm away from the 'puter.....
That's one point where Carlson goes off the rails.What happened today will be used by the people taking power to justify stripping you of the rights were born with as an American. Your right to speak without being censored, your right to assemble, to not be spied upon, to make a living, to defend your family, most critically. These are the most basic and ancient freedoms that we have. They are why we live here in the first place. They’re why we are proud to be Americans. They are what make us different, and they are all now in peril. When thousands of your countrymen storm the Capitol building, you don’t have to like it. We don’t. - Tucker Carlson 6 Jan 2021
Every one of those rights has now been suppressed or nullified...including crucial rights supposedly protected by the bill of rights. We now regularly witness wholesale bans on speech, assembly and worship. Government surveillance is ubiquitous and constant and at levels never even conceived of by the very worst of tyrannical regimes of the past. Your right to defend yourself is dependent on Marxist prosecutors reading your mind, your right to earn a living does not exist, as government can shut it down whenever it feels like it.
Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11
I think they'll use it as a pretext to drop the pussyfooting around. You're 100% right, but they still find themselves having to justify their actions, and still face some popular opposition here and there.
This, especially in the short run, will do away with all of that theater.
No, we are NOT.You may have nothing in common with the people on the other side of the country (increasingly, you probably don't), but you're stuck with them. The idea that groups of Americans will somehow break off into separate peaceful nations of like-minded citizens is a fantasy. The two hemispheres of this country are inseparably intertwined, like conjoined twins. Neither can leave without killing the other. As horrifying as this moment is, we have no option but to make it better, to gut it out. - Tucker Carlson 6 Jan 2021
This idea that we are immutably and forever bound to roughly 130 - 200 million people that quite literally want us dead, is suicidal insanity, and it should be rejected at every turn and the people advocating the same, dismissed as dangerous cranks and lunatics.
Or in other words:
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11
Mission accomplished.
How to solve a problem, Deep State style.
The Problem:
Dems lost seats to GOP challengers, riding you-know-who's coattails.
Half of the country is convinced the presidential election is fraudulent.
The GOP cannot return to swamp business as usual, without capitulating to MAGA supporters,
or risk splintering the party.
How to remove the ghost of Orange Man from politics?
The Solution:
Introduce crisis actors into a peaceful protest to "storm" the Capitol building, knowing full well the POTUS would put his foot in his mouth.
Have the media and yipping congressmen yip about how DJT incites domestic terrorism, stifling any of the "reasonable" Trump voters
(who wants to show support for the most heinous act in the history of American heinousity?), thereby killing any faint whiff of MAGA forever.
Watch today, as Republicans scramble to distance themselves from him.
As of 1/6/21, any support of non-RINO or DEM candidates is treason.
Will it work? IDK.
All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
-Albert Camus
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