Stop! You Need a License To Do that Job!

[Krugminator2]

Licenses were originally for things that would otherwise be illegal.

Most mandatory licenses are unconstitutional- such as the drivers license.

They are done at the state level. What part of the Constituion would make them unconstitutional? Given that roads are public, requiring a minimum level of competency is hardly an infringement on freedom. I don't want some 102 year old blind woman on the road crashing into people. It basically one of the few licenses I support. I also support licensing dogs, cars and guns.

I am strongly against occupational licensing because they are anti-competitive. They end up raising costs to consumers.

[Schifference]

If I hire someone to do electrical work I don't care if the apprentice, grunt, or the boss made an error. The mistake falls squarely on the owner of the business. The buck stops here. I think that when the city/state, or any authority steps in and mandates permits and licenses, they should accept responsibility for fuchups that they inspected and passed. If they do not accept responsibility they are useless.

[Swordsmyth]

I am a License holder. I respectfully disagree with the blanket condemnation of licensing requirements. In most cases, states allow homeowners to do their own work to their own homes. Nobody is stopping you from making basic repairs to your house. Yes, you may be “required” to pull a permit as a homeowner, but that in itself doesn’t disallow you from doing your own work.

In the case where someone wants to provide a service in a skilled trade as a for-profit business, i more or less feel that licensing is the only reasonable solution. The simple fact is that there are codes that are in place. Some are dumb, yes, but others ensure a safe system. In my case, electricians must have a strong working knowledge of code and at least 4 years of field experience to qualify for the lowest level of license. I had 10 + years when I applied for my license and started my business. I don’t think I would have been adequately prepared to run a successful business with only 4 years.

I have seen the work of people who think they can get by without a license. There are cases where these hack jobs have started fires or left dangerous electrical conditions where people have been killed. I’m not a fear monger. If you want to do your own stuff, be willing to take your own risks, save yourself some money- be my guest. But these hack jobs should never be allowed to practice their filth where it exposes other people to dangerous inadequacies.

The state doesn’t enact licensing requirements to prevent competition. A barrier to entry into the licensing is only to ensure that only qualified people who agree to do work up to the local adopted code. Nobody prevented me from getting my license. It was hard work and lots of studying, but I was free to do everything and passed my license exam first time with a 89. In North Carolina, there are over 12,000 electrical license holders. I was one of less than 100 current to obtain my license at less than age 30. I have enjoyed a resounding success. The lack of competition can only be attributed to the fact that most people aren’t willing to work in skilled trades. There is even talk of making it easier to obtain a license. This is a bad idea. Dumbing down the requirements will not help the situation.

In short, I feel licensing is a necessity where there needs to be a standard of proficiency for people to practice their desired skills professionally.

All that is needed for even the most delicate of occupations like surgeons is a voluntary certification program like for CPAs.

[Schifference]

Wouldn't the liberty position be that it is my money and I want zxa done. I can hire klm to do zxa if klm and I agree to terms.

[Swordsmyth]

Wouldn't the liberty position be that it is my money and I want zxa done. I can hire klm to do zxa if klm and I agree to terms.

Yes and voluntary certification would allow that.
But at the same time almost nobody would go to an uncertified surgeon just like almost all accountants are CPAs.

[devil21]

They are done at the state level. What part of the Constituion would make them unconstitutional? Given that roads are public, requiring a minimum level of competency is hardly an infringement on freedom. I don't want some 102 year old blind woman on the road crashing into people. It basically one of the few licenses I support. I also support licensing dogs, cars and guns.

I am strongly against occupational licensing because they are anti-competitive. They end up raising costs to consumers.

It's amazing how many people on a liberty forum apparently love to ask for permission from governments. Licensing dogs, cars and guns? What the hell are you doing on this forum??

[Schifference]

Cannot use scissors and cut a person's hair for $$ without thousands of hours of training and license.

[Schifference]

I would bet that if a private entity was in charge of issuing permits and inspecting peoples work, the government would hold that entity accountable for issues after inspection approval. Government agencies interject themselves into the process, create expense, rules, protocol, and red tape but accept no responsibility.

[Schifference]

I own a single vehicle car hauler/auto trailer. People have commented that I could make money transporting peoples vehicles. I always reply that it is not worth it. I say that even if you make an agreement, even with a friend, to move their vehicle and anything goes wrong, they will want to sue and next thing they will claim, "he should not have transported that vehicle, he doesn't have a license to move vehicles for $$." There is never a problem until there is a problem.

A friend could beg you to give them a ride someplace and pay you xyz for your gas and time. They really need a ride! Get into an accident, even one that is not your fault, and all of a sudden your friend is suing you claiming you don't have a license to transport people for $$.

Rent a room to an acquaintance because they really need a place to stay. One day they stop paying. Then they go to the city and claim you are running an illegal boarding house.

[Occam's Banana]

There used to be *two* labels for Kosher foods - one marked K and another that is a U with an O around it.
Just the other day I was pointing this out to my daughter, and started pulling things out of the cupboard to try to find the K label, and I couldn't find one.
I've known for about 15 years that the organization responsible for certifying the "K" were less restrictive than the O-U people.
Well it turns out that not only did the market invent these - and let's be honest, how many people are shopping Kosher to begin with (hint: it's a tiny fraction of the people who live in a building) - not only did the market come up with these, but the market favored the one that worked better, and apparently the other one became disused.

Nassim Taleb has some interesting things to say on that very subject ...

FTA: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...small-minority [h/t Swordsmyth]

[...]

This example of complexity hit me, ironically, as I was attending the New England Complex Systems institute summer barbecue. As the hosts were setting up the table and unpacking the drinks, a friend who was observant and only ate Kosher dropped by to say hello. I offered him a glass of that type of yellow sugared water with citric acid people sometimes call lemonade, almost certain that he would reject it owing to his dietary laws. He didn’t. He drank the liquid called lemonade, and another Kosher person commented: “liquids around here are Kosher”. We looked at the carton container. There was a fine print: a tiny symbol, a U inside a circle, indicating that it was Kosher. The symbol will be detected by those who need to know and look for the minuscule print. As to others, like myself, I had been speaking prose all these years without knowing, drinking Kosher liquids without knowing they were Kosher liquids.

A strange idea hit me. The Kosher population represents less than three tenth of a percent of the residents of the United States. Yet, it appears that almost all drinks are Kosher. Why?

[...]

[CoastieInColorado]

I have to pay the State of Colorado $250/ 2 years for a (constant and random)background check for the privilege of handling large amounts of marijuana and cash.

I'm kinda alright with that.

[Schifference]

Some people love licenses because it restricts others from doing the job. Look at the taxi industry they loved the licenses until Uber came along. Laws and restrictions. Hmm I remember auto dealers in CO not wanting auto sales on Sunday. They stated that they will not sell anymore cars if opened on Sunday. Look at liquor laws. Used to be liquor stores were not open on Sunday and closed around 7 or 8 pm other days here in CT. People that want liquor would purchase supply knowing that stores were going to be closed. Then super markets start carrying beer and wine. Then stores start selling liquor on Sundays. Now mom and pop liquor store has to be open 7 days a week to sell the same amount of booze they sold in 6 days. There are laws that restrict how cheap you can sell cigarettes and other items. Want to purchase a concession trailer or truck. You must use a certified kitchen. Nothing can come from your home. People wearing gloves to prepare food. They wear them to keep their hands clean not your food. Watch that person making your sandwich open refrigerators and touch everything around them while making your sandwich without changing gloves. The big entities love regulations because they can ignore them and pay the penalty if they get fined while they restrict the startup small guy.

[PAF]

I have to pay the State of Colorado $250/ 2 years for a (constant and random)background check for the privilege of handling large amounts of marijuana and cash.

I'm kinda alright with that.

I wouldn't be. Not one bit.

[Superfluous Man]

I have to pay the State of Colorado $250/ 2 years for a (constant and random)background check for the privilege of handling large amounts of marijuana and cash.

I'm kinda alright with that.

If I came and threatened you with deadly force demanding that you pay me that same tax, would you also be alright with that?

[Occam's Banana]

If I came and threatened you with deadly force demanding that you pay me that same tax, would you also be alright with that?

I call seconds!

[Krugminator2]

It's amazing how many people on a liberty forum apparently love to ask for permission from governments. Licensing dogs, cars and guns? What the hell are you doing on this forum??

You make a strong point. Car gets stolen? Too bad. You are never getting it back. Because license plates are tyranny. Just a cost of freedom. Want to keep Mr. Magoo off the road? It's his right to drive until he kills someone slaver.

[Superfluous Man]

I was just reminded of this excellent video. This one always makes me smile.

[PAF]

You make a strong point. Car gets stolen? Too bad. You are never getting it back. Because license plates are tyranny. Just a cost of freedom. Want to keep Mr. Magoo off the road? It's his right to drive until he kills someone slaver.

Clarification request?

One doesn't need "license plates" owned by the state in order to recover a stolen vehicle.

[Origanalist]

You make a strong point. Car gets stolen? Too bad. You are never getting it back. Because license plates are tyranny. Just a cost of freedom. Want to keep Mr. Magoo off the road? It's his right to drive until he kills someone slaver.

Licence plates aren't needed to get your car back, make, model, serial numbers and vin numbers work just fine. Plates can be quickly and easily switched. And as long as Mr. Magoo doesn't hit anybody let him drive, he can't be any worse than the idiots with their face in a cell phone.

[Superfluous Man]

Clarification request?

One doesn't need "license plates" owned by the state in order to recover a stolen vehicle.

You noticed that too.

It's the typical statist blindness of not being able to conceive of how something that's currently run by the government could ever possibly exist at all if the government didn't run it.

[Krugminator2]

Licence plates aren't needed to get your car back, make, model, serial numbers and vin numbers work just fine. Plates can be quickly and easily switched. And as long as Mr. Magoo doesn't hit anybody let him drive, he can't be any worse than the idiots with their face in a cell phone.

Vin and serial numbers aren't prominently displayed. And it isn't just if a car is stolen. If someone gets pulled over, it pretty nice to know the arrest history and what a cop is dealing with.

And waiting until someone hits a person is ridiculous. If roads were privatized, there would be extensive testing and people would be kept off for safety reasons. So it isn't even a freedom issue with you. It is just an anti-government issue which is not the same as freedom.

[Krugminator2]

You noticed that too.

It's the typical statist blindness of not being able to conceive of how something that's currently run by the government could ever possibly exist at all if the government didn't run it.

This is the kind of insanity of why people laugh at anti-government nuts. Not freedom nuts. Anti-government nuts. I remember people booing people Gary Johnson being for driver's licenses. It isn't an infringement on anything.

Having a system of license plates makes sense for some many reasons. Insurance, auto history, catching criminals, etc. It is very easy for government to do this. Not so easy in a private system. In part because their would be tons of people who wouldn't opt in to whatever system you are a proposing. The cost to the individual is minimal but the gains are large.

[Superfluous Man]

Vin and serial numbers aren't prominently displayed. And it isn't just if a car is stolen. If someone gets pulled over, it pretty nice to know the arrest history and what a cop is dealing with.

Yes, we wouldn't want to deprive the regime's enforcers from such a nice tool when they pull us over.

[Superfluous Man]

It is very easy for government to do this. Not so easy in a private system. In part because their would be tons of people who wouldn't opt in to whatever system you are a proposing. The cost to the individual is minimal but the gains are large.

This is poppycock. If the government can do it, then it could be done better, cheaper, and with fewer negative side effects in a private system. The possibility of competing products only makes it better, not worse.

[Origanalist]

Vin and serial numbers aren't prominently displayed. And it isn't just if a car is stolen. If someone gets pulled over, it pretty nice to know the arrest history and what a cop is dealing with.

And waiting until someone hits a person is ridiculous. If roads were privatized, there would be extensive testing and people would be kept off for safety reasons. So it isn't even a freedom issue with you. It is just an anti-government issue which is not the same as freedom.

How do you know there would be extensive testing, are you saying private roads would require a drivers test and certificate? Where did you get this information? And yes, it's very comforting to know police can take my license plate and look up my history. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

And while we're at it, let's take all guns from people unless they can prove competency, waiting around for them to shoot someone is ridiculous.

[Krugminator2]

Yes, we wouldn't want to deprive the regime's enforcers from such a nice tool when they pull us over.

No. I am not anti-government. I don't see government as a regime. I am thankful I live in a relatively free society. America is a great place. I don't want the jungle rule that you would like to live in. You might not have a government. But you would also have no freedom.

[Superfluous Man]

If the government took over all shopping malls today. Then in 5 years when somebody on this website advocated repealing that law, people like Krugminator2 would show up complaining about how they want to get rid of all shopping malls.

[Origanalist]

This is the kind of insanity of why people laugh at anti-government nuts. Not freedom nuts. Anti-government nuts. I remember people booing people Gary Johnson being for driver's licenses. It isn't an infringement on anything.

Having a system of license plates makes sense for some many reasons. Insurance, auto history, catching criminals, etc. It is very easy for government to do this. Not so easy in a private system. In part because their would be tons of people who wouldn't opt in to whatever system you are a proposing. The cost to the individual is minimal but the gains are large.

I didn't know yours was a parody account, well done.

[Origanalist]

No. I am not anti-government. I don't see government as a regime. I am thankful I live in a relatively free society. America is a great place. I don't want the jungle rule that you would like to live in. You might not have a government. But you would also have no freedom.

Well, we all know government=freedom.

[Superfluous Man]

Well, we all know government=freedom.

Not just government, huge obtrusive modern-style government that monopolizes major parts of the economy, like the roads.

Back before 1913 it was shear anarchy and nobody had the freedom that we do now.