Catherine Bleish calls Dr. Paul a traitor. Sad

[Bman]

I wear my heart on my sleeve, I would have said nothing different as it would not have facilitated this conversation.

I speak from my heart, always, I can apologize if what I said offends you as that is not my intent, but those words came from my heart, my broken heart, and I'm not taking it back.

Then tell me what Ron promised that makes him a traitor.

[CatherineBleish]

Then tell me what Ron promised that makes him a traitor.

Where do I START with the campaign. Maybe not all his personal mistakes, but his silence and allowance of it are enough for me.

I'll start with the fact he said he would stay in the race as long as there was support. When he dropped out his support was GROWING - confused, the delegates still scrambled for a solution and at that point, Dr. Paul, the champion of getting involved with the political party system, abandoned all of the delegates who worked so hard to support him.

He betrayed his cause then and he did it again in TX.

[Bman]

He betrayed his cause then and he did it again in TX.

That's a bit of a stretch. Me thinks you are being a bit unrealistic.

[CatherineBleish]

Maybe its because it hasn't yet happened to you.

Fusion centers became real to me when I was profiled by one.

The abuse of the Paul Machine became real to me when I was stabbed in the back @ the RNC.

Texans likely feel the same. Alaskans, too.

[Bman]

Maybe its because it hasn't yet happened to you.

Fusion centers became real to me when I was profiled by one.

My father use to call the white house on a daily basis asking for the president. I guarentee you they have a file on me, I guarentee they have a file on everyone. I don't have to ask, I don't need to be told why certain things happen. We're all surrounded. Just because someone is not wearing a uniform when they appoach you, it doesn't take much to realize why they were sent.

The abuse of the Paul Machine became real to me when I was stabbed in the back @ the RNC.

You thought it would go down differently? Welcome to politics. You've got to stand with your people and keep them from wondering otherwise you will get stabbed in the back. This was your fault not anyone elses. You don't realize it, but stick around it will all make sense at some point.

Texans likely feel the same. Alaskans, too.

You were doing better when you were speaking for yourself.

[rp08orbust]

If your goal is to keep seniority in the house - then by all means, lets have the Ron Paul machine fuel MORE incumbents into the fraudulent federal government.

Then why wasn't Ron Paul a traitor to liberty when he ran for Congress in the fraudulent federal government for the first time in 1974? The lines you draw around people for treachery seem rather arbitrary.

[LittleLightShining]

HERE in lies the problem, YOU should be the leader, not dr. paul.

Truth. It's a lot to bear, being a leader. I am not saying Ron Paul is a traitor, I'm just saying I agree with Catherine on this.

the other leaders among us are not impressed with your tact.
not everyone will lead, but those who step up have a responsibility to do so in a beneficial way.
maybe you should think more before you post.

I am so tired of your criticism and snarkiness. If you're such a great leader step forward and show us how it's done.

No, I said this top down slow moving inefficient c4l is siphoning resources from the real grassroots.
...

Why is it that at this c4l conference NONE OF THESE PEOPLE KNOW WHAT FUSION CENTERS ARE - yet c4l raises money in the name of their fight against the MIAC?

Summer of 2008 the ROn Paul camp and C4L turned on the delegates to the RNC. After suggesting we go to the rally for the republic instead of the RNC we began to self organize. I will make the story short but say, c4l worked against the self organizing RNC delegates very quickly, they devastated many of the finest patriots I have ever met, they turned on us, an email was even sent out by a current c4l director from a c4l email calling me a democrat traitor who worked for the obama campaign.

Then when the MIAC report was released in MO I spent every waking moment fighting that sucker, after it was retracted c4l sent out a mailer, one came to my house, asking for money in celebration of their big defeat of the MIAC report. None of the grassroots patriots were recognized and c4l took credit for something they did not do, raising funds for their beauracracy on the backs of hard working patriots across the nation (Major props to Gary Franchi with RTR, Rob Hillman with MO RLC, the MO Lib Party, Chuck Baldwin, Ron Paul Forums and my LRPies in MO for all their hard work on the MIAC, I love yall!)

So this has been a long time coming for me. I was silent at the urging of many activists in the movement for 1.5 years and now I'm done. It is time for the truth to ring free.

We are our own leaders, stop looking up to dr. paul, look within.

I am hearing you loud and clear.

That is the second time you have made that claim against Dr. Paul. He does not put party over principal and he most certainly is not a traitor! Catherine, if you're going to continue in this vein, then GTFO!


I wouldn't listen to you about much of anything after these recent antics of yours.

Like I said before, succeed or fail by your OWN merits. And oh, good luck on your effort to extract more money from the liberty movement for you to live on.

LE, please. As a mod keep above the fray. Cat has a right to speak her mind. We can work out an understanding without trying to chasing people away.

It's quite obvious Cat has done a bunch. Despite the lack of thought given to the current comments that are being debated, I think we can work this out by being civil.

LE doesn't like to hear dissent about anything. It's pretty pathetic that she's a mod and has to be reminded to "keep above the fray".

She spoke it. But, to keep on repeating the lies is out of line.

I haven't banned her; nor do I plan to. But, as I said, IF SHE PLANS ON CONTINUING IN THIS VEIN, then there is going to be a problem.

Have at it. I draw the line at her calling Ron Paul a traitor.

"Doing a bunch" doesn't mean anything. It is WHAT one is doing. Right now, she is repeatedly cutting down others in apparent hopes to divert money to her own coffers.

What the fack are YOU doing, LE. Damnit I am so sick of you claiming the moral high ground when there are people busting their asses out there every day. You are something else. Something else entirely.

I have told no lies, only given my OPINION based on FACT.

re: diverting money - WOAH - you obviously don't know me. I was laid off over a year ago and have been volunteering full time to this movement ever since. I have lowered my living expenses to $350 a month and have been living off of a 401k I wisely (at the advice of my father) had created at the age of 18. I have paid my living expenses upfront through March of this year, at that point I will have to reassess how I live. But trust me, I don't spend money, I just don't, and I run my organization like that as well. We get a lot done with verrrry little. Actually, asking for money is one of the biggest struggles I have had, I hate doing it and Im' not good at it, we raise most of our money when we do something the grassroots like and it comes in organically (MIAC fight being one).

I *DO* want to see more resources going toward organizations that are really moving and shaking, such as TAG, We Are Change, LRP, Freedoms Phoenix, OK-Safe, RTR and others, yes, but that is only because I see such great results from those orgs I think they ought to be uplifted. I have not seen the results of the million dollar c4l that I have from small local groups such as the ones I listed above.

Amen to that. All the good that C4L does is done locally.

I wear my heart on my sleeve, I would have said nothing different as it would not have facilitated this conversation.

I speak from my heart, always, I can apologize if what I said offends you as that is not my intent, but those words came from my heart, my broken heart, and I'm not taking it back.

This is why I appreciate you so much. Make sure to look me up if and when VT is on your fusion center list. I know where it is. Our VT C4L group has had many a long conversation about the fc's. Would love to have you share what you know with us. Between Stewart (cc2009 delegate, I think you know him) and I, we can set you up.

[rp08orbust]

Party over Principal is the move of a traitor

Why do you keep repeating this phrase, "party over principle", when it is so obvious that he has not made these arrangements for the sake of the party?

HOW do Ron Paul's actions advance the Republican Party at the expense of liberty?

WHAT principle has Ron Paul violated?

If you really want to stone him for something, stone him for the sin of lying to the Republicans he's pretending to endorse.

What's ironic here is that the video that sparked this discussion (and I assume Catherine's Facebook post) is a huge risk to Ron Paul's standing within the party. The secret that Ron Paul does not actually support the candidates he endorses is out to the general public who couldn't deduce it before. I'd be surprised if this video does not appear in an attack ad against him from the very party you're accusing him of advancing.

Edit: And please, people, can we learn the difference between principals and principles, at least just for this thread?

[constituent]

If your goal is to keep seniority in the house - then by all means, lets have the Ron Paul machine fuel MORE incumbents into the fraudulent federal government.

Nice way to maintain the status quo there, folks.

I thought we wanted LIBERTY...?

you'll figure it out. good luck to you!

[constituent]

Free markets ftw. Plus this is a who made who argument. Do you really think that money would be there without Ron? He's done a lot to bring people into the movement. More so than any other individual I know about. You think you know where the money is best spent, well some may not agree. But labeling Ron as a traitor is hardly going to open up some wallets.

Then you know sometimes you will be at odds with the group but will go along because you are not ready to cut ties. Maybe you are ready to cut ties obviously Ron is not. It hardly makes him a traitor. Just someone who understands what it will take to remain part of the group.


Again, I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Ron. I wouldn't be helping local campaigns for ffice if it were not for Ron. He is inspiring people to step up and play a single role. You have your thoughts and now are using oppurtunity to self-promote yourself. It's a tact that you risk back firing on yourself. As seen in the post I believe you've done more harm to your reputation than good. You could have had more tact than calling Ron a traitor. Disgreeing is not the problem, providing tactless responses are.

Wow, that's probably the best disagreement post in rpf history. that s* deserves an award.

[constituent]

Calling one of the best voices (bets voices - someone who promotes a freedom agenda, and has a large influence and following) of the freedom movement a traitor for the reason you called them a traitor is ridiculous.

It's called generating traffic... try not to read too much into it.

[FrankRep]

Thank you Ron Paul for doing what you have to do to Continue to fight the Federal Reserve and Big Government.

Forgive these politically ignorant people.

[constituent]

Thank you Ron Paul for doing what you have to do to Continue to fight the Federal Reserve and Big Government.

Forgive these politically ignorant people.

dude, that was kinda weird. No offense, but srsly.

[Cowlesy]

Robert Frost (1874–1963). Mountain Interval. 1920.

1. The Road Not Taken


TWO roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth; 5

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same, 10

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back. 15

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference. 20

:\

[LibertyEagle]

What the fack are YOU doing, LE. Damnit I am so sick of you claiming the moral high ground when there are people busting their asses out there every day. You are something else. Something else entirely.

As I said before, LLS, whether one busts their ass or not, really doesn't have a whole lot to do with it, does it? It's whether what the person does is constructive towards getting this country turned around.

I sat here while Catherine called Dr. Paul a traitor once; the second time was way over the line.

The fact that you have no problem with it, is enlightening, indeed.

[torchbearer]

I am so tired of your criticism and snarkiness. If you're such a great leader step forward and show us how it's done.

we do well here in louisiana. as you can see, part of my activities here do not include calling Ron a traitor and creating echoes like this thread.
Though i do see a similiarity between you and the person you are sticking up for-
and you have the same value. nothing beneficial.

[CatherineBleish]

You were doing better when you were speaking for yourself.

I'm sitting next to and talking with several Texans, and have had 2 Alaskans contact me upset about what happened out there just based on my facebook comment.

[ItsTime]

I'm sitting next to and talking with several Texans, and have had 2 Alaskans contact me upset about what happened out there just based on my facebook comment.

Boo Hoo when did liberty activists become such panzies and whine asses? No wonder until recently this movement was laughed at.

[angelatc]

I'm sitting next to and talking with several Texans, and have had 2 Alaskans contact me upset about what happened out there just based on my facebook comment.

Well, mission accomplished then! Congratulations on fracturing the movement.

[CatherineBleish]

Why do you keep repeating this phrase, "party over principle", when it is so obvious that he has not made these arrangements for the sake of the party?

Edit: And please, people, can we learn the difference between principals and principles, at least just for this thread?

I repeat it because he is chosing to support the party incumbents instead of principled candidates that = party > principle....


Also, I am a very poor speller, I have been my entire life, I have taken through differential equations in mathematics, but cannot spell. I'm doing the best I can and you condescension and negativity wearing me thin.

Can we start talking about fusion centers now? Maybe actual strategies we can take the change things? Why the hell has Catherine Bleish become the topic of discussion here - I'm not the one sending out mailer asking folks to support a bail out voting patriot act supporting tyrant who helped create this problem......

[ItsTime]

Well, mission accomplished then! Congratulations on fracturing the movement.

We have come all this way for little issues like this to fracture us. Lovely isnt it? I guess some people didnt take Ron Paul seriously when he said WE NEED TO WORK WITHING THE GOP. Is it Ron Pauls fault Texans didnt get their acts together and replace their neo-con Republicans with Liberty Republicans? That shows failure for the leaders of the liberty movement in Texas. And after reading this thread, I realized why some of them failed.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I repeat it because he is chosing to support the party incumbents instead of principled candidates that = party > principle....


Also, I am a very poor speller, I have been my entire life, I have taken through differential equations in mathematics, but cannot spell. I'm doing the best I can and you condescension and negativity wearing me thin.

Can we start talking about fusion centers now? Maybe actual strategies we can take the change things? Why the hell has Catherine Bleish become the topic of discussion here - I'm not the one sending out mailer asking folks to support a bail out voting patriot act supporting tyrant who helped create this problem......

I have your back Catherine. I get into this debate here all the time, so I know what its like. The pragmatists vs the highly principled. We are not fracturing the movement by being principled, the wafflers are. That's my take on that.

Keep up the good work. Besides, when I see the minarchists start actually living their words like us anarchists, then maybe I'll be a little more impressed. I don't see any minarchists even attempting anything like the Keeniacs.

[klamath]

CatherineBleish is the traitor not RP.

[torchbearer]

I have your back Catherine. I get into this debate here all the time, so I know what its like. The pragmatists vs the highly principled. We are not fracturing the movement by being principled, the wafflers are. That's my take on that.

Keep up the good work. Besides, when I see the minarchists start actually living their words like us anarchists, then maybe I'll be a little more impressed. I don't see any minarchists even attempting anything like the Keeniacs.

how small you want to make your lil' club?

[CatherineBleish]

I have your back Catherine. I get into this debate here all the time, so I know what its like. The pragmatists vs the highly principled. We are not fracturing the movement by being principled, the wafflers are. That's my take on that.

Keep up the good work. Besides, when I see the minarchists start actually living their words like us anarchists, then maybe I'll be a little more impressed. I don't see any minarchists even attempting anything like the Keeniacs.

Glad to have some support lol - I'm literally out in the trenches fighting the man and people would rather talk about my opinion of Dr. Paul than look into who I am or what I am doing and how they can get out on the streets and help. So silly.

And if people think this is fracturing - then we were never really united. We should be rallying around FREEDOM not a man!

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

how small you want to make your lil' club?

If it means my "club" is small because we won't support bailout, police state, fascists like Lamar Smith, then so be it. You can take Lamar Smith and shove it. Now we are out there supporting Lamar Smith and Scott Brown? It's like we are back to 2006.

[FrankRep]

Can we start talking about fusion centers now? Maybe actual strategies we can take the change things? Why the hell has Catherine Bleish become the topic of discussion here - I'm not the one sending out mailer asking folks to support a bail out voting patriot act supporting tyrant who helped create this problem......

Some articles about Fusion Centers.


My Trip to a DHS Fusion Center...and How I Lived to Talk About It
http://www.jbs.org/jbs-news-feed/4736

Profiling and Criminalizing Political Dissent
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index....s/politics/911

Do You Fit the Terrorist Profile?
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index....s/politics/934

New DHS Domestic Terrorism Report Targets Millions of Americans
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index..../politics/1006

Homeland Security: Everyone's a Threat
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index..../politics/1053

More Extremism from Obama's DHS
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index..../politics/1091

Fusion Centers and Freedom
http://www.jbs.org/us-constitution-blog/4685

What Will DHS "Fusion Centers" Mean for Local Police?
http://www.jbs.org/jbs-news-feed/380...r-local-police

Missouri Information Analysis Center report demonstrates need for local control of police departments
http://www.jbs.org/press-room/4648

[Cowlesy]

Who needs enemies when we have each other

[angelatc]

how small you want to make your lil' club?

I just wish they'd find a different clubhouse already.

[ItsTime]

We have a chance of a life time to spring the liberty movement into seats all over the country and we are going to bicker about a few seats we need to give up in order to do that. Nothings perfect and nothing changes over night.