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Closed border, think Berlin Wall or DMZ, guns and mines unlimited deterrents
Open borders, No limits at all totally open 24/7/365 to anyone.
Status qou
Reform, more visas like a C1G1-B for level 1 criminals and gangbangers
Unlimited immigration, but with cheks for disease,criminal history,income verification
Birthright citizenship, at least one parent must be a US citizen for child to be US Citizen
Limited quota, checks for disease and criminal history.
quota without checks lottery system
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
There are many references to the nations. How do you have many nations without respect for borders. Do you wish for a new Roman Empire? This would be a good debate for the religion forum, eh E?
And again you have yet to tell me where God would disagree with me. And you have yet to explain the difference between an invasion of an army that wants to violently disarm me an those who vote to violently disarm me.
...
Wait. Are you suggesting that he said that people should buy swords to use them to stop people from immigrating? That's just weird.
In fact, he positively prohibited his disciples from using the sword to rule over others like the rulers of the nations do.
And notice that the passage to which you're referring doesn't end with that verse, but it goes on to relate how his disciples responded to him by taking up swords and bringing them along when he was arrested, at which point they asked if they should use them in defense of him (with one of them cutting off a soldier's ear), and he prohibited them from doing so. This context should always be kept in mind when citing that verse.
Somehow he isn't responsible for the harm his policies will cause.
Is it not ungodly to deprive people of their rights?
2 Chronicles 19:2
“And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the LORD.”
King James Version (KJV)
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
He said they should buy swords to defend themselves, keeping out immigrants that will destroy our liberty is defending ourselves.
Is it not ungodly to deprive people of their rights?
2 Chronicles 19:2
“And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the LORD.”
King James Version (KJV)
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
That's a strange argument. Yes, there are many references to all kinds of sin as well. But what's the takeaway from those passages? It's not that sin exists, so we ought to sin. One important reference to nations is Jesus commanding his disciples to repudiate the methods of the rulers of the nations to rule over others.
I don't wish for one. But Jesus calls his followers to follow the approach he took in dealing with that Empire.
That's not what he said. And in fact, in the following verses that you disregarded they asked if they should use them for that purpose, and he said no.
Yes it is, provided "rights" are defined according to God's law, which is why I refuse to support depriving people of their rights.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Yes he did:
John
Chapter 18
10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.
11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?
He didn't say that we must allow in an unlimited number of immigrants.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
When told to buy swords, the apostles showed Jesus they had two swords among them. Jesus said "That is enough." It was not to build an army or a defense force. And they were not to protect anybody from immigrants. When Peter tried to use his sword on the Romans arresting Jesus, Jesus stopped him and healed the ear Peter cut.
"He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword."
https://www.biola.edu/blogs/good-boo...ntrol-part-two
The setting is the final week of Jesus’ life. Having just celebrated the Passover with his disciples, Jesus warns them of his impending betrayal and of Peter’s threefold denial. He then cautions them concerning difficulties to come: “Then Jesus said, ‘When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?’ ‘Nothing,’ they answered. He said to them, ‘But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.’” The disciples then produce two swords, which prompts Jesus to respond, “That’s enough!” (NIV)Does he argue for protection?In their accounts of Jesus’ betrayal and arrest in Gethsemane, all four gospel writers record that one of Jesus’ followers draws a sword and attempts to meet violence with violence. We learn from John that the culprit is Peter, who actually sliced off the ear of the High Priest’s slave, Malchus (John 18:10). Apparently, Peter interpreted Jesus’ enigmatic statement on acquiring a sword in the manner that gun-rights advocates suggest, as an endorsement of violent resistance—and is sternly rebuked by Jesus: “No more of this!” (Luke 22:51); “Put away your sword!” (Matt. 26:52; John 18:11). In Matthew’s account, Jesus adds the following rationale to his reprimand: “For all who take up the sword will die by the sword.”
“If someone slaps your right cheek, turn to them your other cheek also”
Last edited by Zippyjuan; 04-17-2019 at 02:52 PM.
That was metaphorical and not a command that we all allow ourselves and our loved ones to be robbed and murdered.
Christ had a purpose in his death that we do not and we have a duty to one another to defend eachother's rights.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
And for the record, I do not want to rule over anyone. I simply wish to be left alone, practice my rights,and live in an area where where I suffer neither excess crime or police. Mass immigration without assimilation does threaten that. I have seen it in formerly nice areas in L.A.
...
It was not metaphorical. It was very literal and real, and the original audience of those words took them very seriously, and did follow him in suffering much persecution, including in some cases the death penalty.
Yes. And one purpose was to show us what he meant by, "take up your cross and follow me."
Jesus also shows us the means by which we are to do that, and those by which we are not. Using the sword to rule over others so as to prevent future crimes by those we suspect will one day commit them is not his way.
You clearly do.
Then you should likewise leave others alone the same way you want to be left alone.
Notice how you say "threaten." Immigration and non-assimilation in themselves don't violate anyone's rights. And not all who immigrate without assimilating to whatever it is you want the government to require them to assimilate to (somehow all without ruling over them?) do the things you mean by excess crime. But you want to preempt future violations of rights by stopping people from doing acts that in themselves aren't violations of rights as some kind of pre-crime enforcement. This is to do what Jesus told his followers not to do in Matthew 20:25-26.
Last edited by Superfluous Man; 04-17-2019 at 03:06 PM.
Jus soli needs to go
A society that places equality before freedom with get neither; A society that places freedom before equality will yield high degrees of both
Make a move and plead the 5th because you can't plead the 1st
Go back and reread those posts. You brought up the Luke 22 passage, though you didn't cite the reference, and that was the passage I was talking about. Luke is not the only Gospel to relate the account of a disciple using the sword at that incident. But it is the one we were discussing.
Oh FFS. You don't have the balls to answer my points that explain my reasoning, nor tell me where I disagree with God, yet you will tell me what I believe. Lol.
ETA. I made this response when he replied with just the reply above. He answered more shortly after in an edit, so I will reply to that separately.
Last edited by RJB; 04-17-2019 at 05:42 PM.
...
T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato
We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me
Originally Posted by Philhelm
T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato
We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me
Originally Posted by Philhelm
The swords were to protect themselves and two was enough for right then so they did not have to rush out and buy more immediately because they were all together.
He stopped Peter because it was time for his sacrifice:
John
Chapter 18
10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.
11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?
Defending yourself is not "living by the sword" and dying by the sword is not damnation.
A slap on the cheek is nothing and Christ's teachings on the mount were to those who were being groomed for leadership positions and had to set a special example they were not intended for the members at large:
Matthew
Chapter 5
1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him
13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
There is much there that applies to everyone but the extreme restrictions do not apply to everyone, this part for instance:
Matthew
Chapter 6
25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
He also commanded that the wicked be kept separate from the righteous and that certainly applies to those who would deprive us of our liberty:
Matthew
Chapter 5
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Those who preach suicide Christianity should consider this part:
Matthew
Chapter 7
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Their doctrine does not bring good fruit, it brings evil fruit.
The sermon on the mount is also filled with simple instructions that are general and do not cover all of the details or exceptions.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
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