Any war intended to stop an enemy from actively “attacking our cities, raping our women, and killing our children,” is justified on it's face. Also, this all happened hundreds of years ago and the fact is that THEY DID stop.Originally Posted by Wilf
Technically, it did not stop. I mean how did the Ottoman empire form? Also, what is your opinion about this video.
Technically, it certainly did stop. There are no crusades today.
The crusades in large part, particularly the latter half of them, specifically fought against the Ottoman Empire from trying to conquer Europe.I mean how did the Ottoman empire form?
Video starts with some serious BS. The crusades haven't been romanticized, they have been demonized.Also, what is your opinion about this video.
Vlogger says: “I'm paraphrasing by the way.” LOL Yeah no kidding.
Video is better than most, but not historically accurate. Some apparent bias.
This short video may provide some perspective:
Here is a direct reply to and point-by-point refutation of the video you posted. It is far more historically accurate:
100 years of ever increasing and asymmetrical western aggression on predominantly Muslim territories in the form of wars, propped up regimes, clandestine intervention, and the presence of numerous military bases; and some Americans whine “Islam hates us”.
Last edited by robert68; 03-13-2016 at 02:34 PM.
I am looking near the end and also the guy, Who did the rebuttal video, made another video justifying the killing of innocent christian by christian soldiers.
Last edited by Wilf; 03-12-2016 at 02:37 PM.
Slavery? I wouldn't go that far, it just meant they couldn't serve in the military (and other positions of power) and had to pay a jizya tax. Otherwise they could practice their own religion as they saw fit. Under the Ottomans for example, they had a millet system where the various religious communities could practice under their own religious law. Obviously the Ottomans did commit many horrible atrocities that is beyond the point here.
And I don't find it satisfactory if that is what you're asking. I believe all laws need to apply to everyone equally regardless of faith. There should be no second class citizens or an official state religion. I'm simply pointing out that your original claim that it is the creed of muslims to hate all the unbelievers is wrong on its head.
Sure it condemns the non-believers over and over and its God doing the condemning for sure. But never does it instruct the prophet or any of the believers to hate the non-believers.
I mean, I have to admit the Quran and the Bible are both terrible books. To me, what is important is those things all the great religions have in common. Do unto others as they would unto you. Don't lie, cheat, or steal. Don't kill people. Don't be arrogant and always judge in a just manner. It really all fits into the NAP and liberty for me. I do believe that is there one god who created us all. I just don't like any of the organized religions and I'm still kind of searching for the truth of things.
This is the point where it is beyond obvious that you have never attempted to read the Koran at all.
Repentance 123: "Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you."
Almost 2/3rds of that book is statements like this. If you are not keenly aware of them then there's not a chance in hell that you actually read the text.
Why do you people put forth opinions on subjects when you have done no research whatsoever? It's right $#@!ing there in the text. All over the damn thing. And these are considered eternal commands, not at all like the historical stories of the Old Testament text to which the ignorant reflexively draw false equivalences.
Ah, the typical "Quran bad! Bible good!" I've seen it a million times. This verse and others like it are used by extremist muslims to justify their thirst for blood. If you read the interpretations of mainstream islamic scholars they'll tell you its a reference to the prophet to fight the disbelievers around him who had made a military alliance with his enemy - the tribe of quraish. I see you've left out the word "next to" or "adjacent" which is in other translations and is a reference to this.
Have you read the entire quran?
I have. I will not return the question to you because I know the true answer is "no", regardless of what you may claim. There's really no ambiguity as to what that book is about.
No, you clearly haven't - because 2/3rd of the verses do not deal with killing non-believers.
You can keep insisting that, but it will continue to be every bit as untrue as the prior statement which I demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt to be false.
Enjoy slurping up that feel-good multiculti propaganda.
Also, because you lack the honesty to acknowledge that I did indeed prove your misconception wrong, I will hereby no longer permit you to continue to waste my time.
Umm....I am no apologist for Islam and it has many problems but what you're saying is completely wrong. I'm sure you'll fit in just fine at the next Trump rally
Here's a translation from www.clearquran.com
Repentance 123: "O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who attack you, and let them find severity in you, and know that God is with the righteous."
Here's a few from the King James Bible:
Deuteronomy 20:16-17: "But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth: But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee"
1 Samuel 15:3: "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."
Numbers 21:3: "The Lord gave the Canaanites over to Israel, who completely destroyed them and their towns."
Numbers 31:17-18 "God commanded Moses to kill all of the male Midianite children and "kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."
"Almost 2/3rds of the Bible is statements like this!" --thoughtomator the suicide bomber
Last edited by Jamesiv1; 03-14-2016 at 03:54 PM.
- Don't lie.
- Don't cheat.
- Don't steal.
- Don't kill.
- Don't commit adultery.
- Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
- Honor your father and mother.
- Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
- Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
- Do unto others as you would have them do to you.
"For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV
Here's an interesting article comparing violence in the Bible vs. the Qur'an
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=124494788
Last edited by Jamesiv1; 03-14-2016 at 06:59 PM.
- Don't lie.
- Don't cheat.
- Don't steal.
- Don't kill.
- Don't commit adultery.
- Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
- Honor your father and mother.
- Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
- Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
- Do unto others as you would have them do to you.
"For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV
"The Koran is a mere four-fifths of the length of the New Testament."
Last edited by Danke; 03-12-2016 at 04:23 PM.
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The Federalist Papers, No. 15:
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Googlebomb: "old testament vs quran violence"
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...ran%20violence
Some numbers from http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.co...le_quran.html:
Last edited by Jamesiv1; 03-12-2016 at 04:28 PM.
- Don't lie.
- Don't cheat.
- Don't steal.
- Don't kill.
- Don't commit adultery.
- Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
- Honor your father and mother.
- Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
- Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
- Do unto others as you would have them do to you.
"For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV
Old Testament, most likely.
...Given this violent legacy, religion historian Philip Jenkins decided to compare the brutality quotient of the Quran and the Bible.
"Much to my surprise, the Islamic scriptures in the Quran were actually far less bloody and less violent than those in the Bible," Jenkins says.
Jenkins is a professor at Penn State University and author of two books dealing with the issue: the recently published Jesus Wars, and Dark Passages , which has not been published but is already drawing controversy.
We can probably conclude that
In other words...In the end, the scholars can agree on one thing: The DNA of early Judaism, Christianity and Islam code for a lot of violence. Whether they can evolve out of it is another thing altogether.
If you live in a glass house, don't throw stones.
Last edited by Jamesiv1; 03-14-2016 at 08:37 AM.
- Don't lie.
- Don't cheat.
- Don't steal.
- Don't kill.
- Don't commit adultery.
- Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
- Honor your father and mother.
- Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
- Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
- Do unto others as you would have them do to you.
"For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV
There are 23,145 verses in the Old Testament and 7,957 verses in the New Testament. This gives a total of 31,102 verses.
- Don't lie.
- Don't cheat.
- Don't steal.
- Don't kill.
- Don't commit adultery.
- Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
- Honor your father and mother.
- Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
- Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
- Do unto others as you would have them do to you.
"For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV
Found this.
Yes, Muslims Hate America-By Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.
Because America hates Muslims. After more than 70 years of anti-Muslim interventions, wars, dictator-installations, economic ripoffs, and millions of dead and mutilated, who can be surprised? This has nothing to do with immigration policy, btw. Are you outraged because, as a Christian or Jew, your chances of becoming a Saudi, etc., citizen are almost nil? Of course not. You feel it’s their business. So what to do about the intensifying hate? Stop all the bombings and occupations of Muslim lands. End all interventionist alliances and vicious foreign aid. Bring all the troops and weapons home. And on the way, drop all the weapons into the sea, since they are good only for evil. It may not solve everything, but this step is essential morally and practically. And from our own standpoint, we must reject the state-oligarch program to change the American population. As a first step, stop importing millions and millions of people the regime sees as making us more malleable, let alone putting them on welfare. This is intended to harm the property rights, and social structures, of the current population. Otherwise, we go the way of Comrade Merkel’s Germany and worse.
Here are two well-respected translations:
The Koran Interpreted. By Arthur Arberry.
The 1955 translation of Arthur Arberry (1905-69) was the first English translation by a bona fide scholar of Arabic and Islam. A Cambridge University graduate, he spent several years in the Middle East perfecting his Arabic and Persian language skills. For a short while, he served as professor of classics at Cairo University; in 1946, he was professor of Persian at University of London, and the next year transferred to Cambridge to become professor of Arabic, serving there until his death in 1969 [...] The translation is without prejudice and is probably the best around. The Arberry version has earned the admiration of intellectuals worldwide, and having been reprinted several times, remains the reference of choice for most academics. It seems destined to maintain that position for the foreseeable future.The Noble Qur'an in the English Language. By Muhammad Taqi al-Din al-Hilali and Muhammad Muhsin Khan.
Now the most widely disseminated Qur'an in most Islamic bookstores and Sunni mosques throughout the English-speaking world, this new translation is meant to replace the Yusuf 'Ali edition and comes with a seal of approval from both the University of Medina and the Saudi Dar al-Ifta.
Last edited by Jamesiv1; 03-13-2016 at 08:34 PM.
- Don't lie.
- Don't cheat.
- Don't steal.
- Don't kill.
- Don't commit adultery.
- Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
- Honor your father and mother.
- Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
- Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
- Do unto others as you would have them do to you.
"For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV
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