You’re overthinking it. Just face it, the child would play with the rabbit and take a bite out of the fruit. Not vice versa. And I think you know that. But as I said, this is getting tiresome.Originally Posted by Weston White
The point was that in our unconditioned, innocent state, we love animals. Exploiting and eating them is something we are taught and conditioned to believe is normal. So we lose that initial mindset toward animals and develop a disconnect… That is the only way to avoid the cognitive dissonance that comes with claiming to love animals, yet eating them.
Now I think you must be trolling. But to address the first part of that paragraph, it's not about equating fluffy animals to humans. I absolutely do not believe that animals are equal to humans, so please don't presume things or put words in my mouth. It is simply about acknowledging that animals are sentient, they have a mind, emotions, a will, they can feel love, joy, friendship and an enjoyment of life… Or they can suffer and feel misery and pain and terror. Are you denying this? This is not equating them to humans but simply recognizing what is right before your eyes, which you are choosing to ignore, or downplay by trying to equate them to plants, which is ludicrous.And I think trying to equate cute fluffy animals to humans, while excluding the ugly dangerous ones and the creepy crawlies is hypercritical. I also think that if evidence is tending to prove that there is more to plant life than our current comprehension has permitted, then we should permit ourselves the tolerance of reconsideration our that we ought to test our existing prejudices and attitudes toward plant life. I also think to not do this is just an excuse by herbivores to dismiss the reality of their flowery sensibilities (pun intended.)
That first sentence is incorrect. Veganism is not a diet, it is an ethical standpoint. It is a lifestyle. Simply refusing to consume meat doesn't make one a vegan, because some people refuse to consume meat for health reasons, yet still wear leather, wool and silk, still go to the bullfight or the circus and really have no concern for animal welfare or animal abuse… They do it for health reasons. Usually, people like that are called 'plant-based', not vegan.1. If you refuse to consume meat, regardless of the reason, you are a vegan. A vegan is somebody that does not eat flesh or meat.
Even though I'm doing this primarily for ethical reasons, I still don't identify as a vegan, because many vegans (including the leaders of the movement) espouse some beliefs that are unbiblical… And I'm not going to get into all of that right now but suffice it to say I disagree with them on a few important things, so I usually don't claim to be a vegan, as I don't want to give people the wrong impression.
You're not listening. And you're not following along here. Let me recap. You keep talking about plants as being possibly sentient and intelligent and trying to equate plants to animals. Then I brought up the fact that the whole purpose of fruits, vegetables and plant-based foods according to God in the first chapter of the first book of the Bible – is to be our food. I repeat, that is its purpose. God wouldn't make fruit and vegetables with the ability to suffer and feel pain if their sole purpose was to be food. God is not a sadistic monster.2. WTF? The Old Testament has a myriad of quotes on the matter of animal sacrifices and consuming meat and fish.
The reason we’re not on the same page here is because you're not looking at this from the standpoint of true and original design/ purpose for the things that we've been talking about.
Since you ignored it before, go read Genesis 1:29–31. God's perfect will and original design is peace and harmony among all living beings. Not violence, exploitation, needless killing and cruelty.
That was at the very beginning. Now let's look at the future.
The wolf shall dwell with the lamb,
and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together;
and a little child shall lead them.
The cow and the bear shall graze;
their young shall lie down together;
and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
The nursing child shall play over the hole of the cobra,
and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den.
They shall not hurt or destroy
in all my holy mountain;
for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord
as the waters cover the sea.
Isaiah 11:6-10
Try to picture a physical timeline. God's perfect will at the beginning, and at the end. Everything in between is this fallen, messed up, upside down world, the result of sin.
I don't know if you're a Christian, but do you think that Christians should aim for God's perfect will, on earth as it is in heaven… Or should we embrace the ways of this fallen, violent, messed up world? What do you think?
Animal sacrifices were only applicable to a specific people group for a specific time, (and even that is debatable, as the Bible itself says that "lying scribes" changed things to deceive people.) And God himself stated that he doesn't want sacrifice, he wants mercy and obedience.
For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.
Hosea 6:6
______________
For you will not delight in sacrifice, or I would give it;
you will not be pleased with a burnt offering.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit;
a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.
Psalm 51:16-17
______________
“The multitude of your sacrifices—
what are they to me?” says the Lord.
“I have more than enough of burnt offerings,
of rams and the fat of fattened animals;
I have no pleasure
in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.
When you come to appear before me,
who has asked this of you,
this trampling of my courts?
Stop bringing meaningless offerings!
Your incense is detestable to me.
New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations—
I cannot bear your worthless assemblies.
Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals
I hate with all my being.
They have become a burden to me;
I am weary of bearing them.
When you spread out your hands in prayer,
I hide my eyes from you;
even when you offer many prayers,
I am not listening.
Your hands are full of blood!
Wash and make yourselves clean.
Take your evil deeds out of my sight;
stop doing wrong.
Learn to do right; seek justice.
Defend the oppressed.
Take up the cause of the fatherless;
plead the case of the widow.
Isaiah 1:11–17
Actually, since 90something percent of meat comes from factory farms, the reality is, meat is the antibiotic and pesticide-laden corpse of a tortured animal.Meat products are loaded with nutritional value, so there is an existing necessity, as to preparation and taste that is a personal preference. That necessity could be as simple as the desire to have a hot hearty meal with family and friends.
You don't have to eat meat to get nutrients that you need, in fact the animal is getting its nutrients from plant-based foods, so why not cut out the middleman and go straight to the source? Again, it really boils down to habit / tradition/ personal desire... which in my opinion should not trump justice and mercy.
I was talking about things like newborn calves being killed because they're worthless to the dairy industry. Or male chicks being suffocated or ground up alive simply because they are worthless to the to the egg industry.Well, it is not a disregarding of life, those animals are not being burned at the alter of whatever sun god, they are feeding families, they are making clothing, they are providing livelihoods to the workers, they are being used to compose various other products, etc.
I was also referring to the horrible abuse that takes place every single day. That is what I meant by disregard for life. It doesn't matter if they're feeding families, that doesn't change the fact that the animal industries are still treating life as if it was garbage, and even worse than that, in an evil, completely cruel and disgusting way.
Last edited by lilymc; 09-15-2017 at 06:26 PM.
I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.
― Henry David Thoreau
Even the tiny bugs that knaw on the roots and stems of the plants you willingly consume? #WeevilLivesMatter
Fruitarianism is the only moral diet. The offer still stands.
Last edited by Lamp; 09-15-2017 at 06:34 PM.
But Chia seeds will only give you ALA, almost none of which is absorbed by the human body. You need DHA & EPA.
I think there's a lot of misinformation and exaggeration out there. This video covers that.
I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.
― Henry David Thoreau
http://www.dhaomega3.org/Overview/Di...-3-Fatty-Acids
Yes, your eyes are definitely open to this fallen world as it is now…"nature's a bitch" as you put it. But that's not what I was talking about. I was specifically talking about the animals, the animals that people typically eat. I was talking about the fact that they have a mind, emotions, personalities, they are not mere objects.
Please be honest here. Do you agree with "might makes right"? You mentioned "kill or be killed." But I wasn't talking about killing in self-defense, that of course is justifiable. I was talking about preying on innocent animals who have done nothing wrong. They trust us, and we betray that trust by enslaving them, then abusing, torturing and killing them… just for our personal desire or out of habit. Again, might makes right?
I've gone over this many times. God didn't set things up this way, things are this way because this is a fallen world. If you agree with the ways of this fallen world, then we're not going to get anywhere here. We'll just have to agree to disagree. But I do appreciate your input, and that you reply in a civil way.and whether it was god, or DNA or the Flying Spaghetti Monster that set up the rules, the fact of the matter it is kill or be killed, survival of the fittest.
Last edited by lilymc; 09-15-2017 at 07:36 PM.
I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.
― Henry David Thoreau
Have it on good intel, lilymc broke down tonight and order a pizza, double sausage and extra pepperoni.
Pfizer Macht Frei!
Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.
Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!
Short Income Tax Video
The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes
The Federalist Papers, No. 15:
Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.
And even less ala is converted by male bodies and some studies indicate that it leads to prostate cancer.
You have never raised a toddler.
I worked as a nanny for years, so I actually do have experience with young kids.But the point was that before we become conditioned to the ways of this world, most of us love animals, we think of them as friends, not food. There's a reason why people take their young kids to pick apples but don't take them to a slaughterhouse.
I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.
― Henry David Thoreau
Disagree. We are conditioned to "love" animals. A toddler is just as likely to put the bunny in its mouth as it is the apple. And plenty of kids on farms see animals slaughtered even while young. I must have been 3 when I first watched my grandpa kill a chicken for dinner. Didn't bother me one bit.I worked as a nanny for years, so I actually do have experience with young kids.
Conditioned to love animals? That's demonstrably untrue, if we were conditioned to love animals, we wouldn't be exploiting and abusing and eating them on a monumental scale. I think we are conditioned to believe that certain animals deserve love, like cats and dogs, but other animals are food.
Yes, for kids who are brought up on a farm it's inevitable that they'd witness killings at a young age. But I'd say that's because tradition is being handed down to the child, and imo they're being prepared for that type of life, and desensitized.
I don't think most parents would take their young kids to a slaughterhouse.
BTW, this is reminding me of really good documentary called The Peaceable Kingdom. If anyone wants to hear a different point of view, and has some time, it's worth watching.
Many of the people in this documentary were former farmers or ranchers who talk about how as a child they started off with a love for animals, but then were desensitized, because of their family business. Later on in their life, they realized that what they were doing was going against their conscience, and they came back around to that initial love for animals. And they ended up going from farming or ranching to opening animal sanctuaries.
I may not agree with every single thing in this documentary, but overall I think it's a beautiful documentary and definitely worth watching:
http://www.tribeofheart.org/sr/pkj_english.htm
...If nothing else, for the shot of the sheep and goats and other animals literally jumping for joy when they were rescued from a horrendous situation and let loose on the green grass and open space. I absolutely love that part.
I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.
― Henry David Thoreau
We name cows T-Bone, Sirloin etc. so the kids know from the onset what's going on...
Anybody who has raised chickens will generally have no hesitation chopping off their head in order to consume their flesh, especially kids who have been exposed to a rooster.
Lilly's soft-heartedness is kinda cute but literally generation after generation of country women raise, kill and cook farm animals to feed their families and the sentimental aspect never comes into play...And most have the choice of feeding their families vegetation in lieu of meat.
No, because the toddler is not yet capable of chewing solids and neither does it have any relative knowledge or life experiences to do either.
You can and you should love, respect, and appreciate animals (and not just the cute fluffy ones), but that does not preclude them from being part of the food-chain. Animals eat meat, even plants eat meat, and yes humans eat meat too.
And no I am not trolling, I provided you emerging information that plants posses intelligent qualities too, I point out that insects (which are just like humans and animals with respect to the sentient qualities that so gravely concern you) are murdered too in the process of producing your green foods, are yet you continue displaying cognitive dissonance on the issue.anthropomorphic
adjective
Definition of anthropomorphic for English Language Learners
: described or thought of as being like human beings in appearance, behavior, etc.
: considering animals, objects, etc., as having human qualities
No, you are arguing that animals are at least equal to humans in their right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
I am not downplaying the matter by equating animals to plants, I am equating plants to animals, which is exactly what you are doing by equating animals to humans.
Veganism, is just a diet based on ethical grounds that prohibits the harming of any other intelligent or sentient being--which includes humans and animals, yet conveniently omits plant live.
If you want to eat meat but cannot because you will end up in the hospital or a coffin you are not a vegan. Also there are varying classes in veganism, as some view it okay to still consume seafood, others that it is okay to consume products from living animals, milk, eggs, etc. As veganism seems to be filled with hypocrisy.
Then all animals would as well be strict herbivores, mammal teeth and digestion would be incapable of consuming meat, carnivorous plants would not exist, insects would be designed to no infest crops, etc.
There is much more in the Bible than just Genesis, I already provided you with many other quotations that clearly depict animal sacrifice and consumption.
Oh please, we are talking about consuming animals and plants for food, health, and useful product here, not sodomy, rape, murder, or devil worship.
No, this is false. Lent for example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fastin...atholic_ChurchIn the time of Gregory the Great (590–604) there were apparently at Rome six weeks of six days each, making thirty-six fast days in all, which St. Gregory, who is followed therein by many medieval writers, describes as the spiritual tithing of the year, thirty-six days being approximately the tenth part of three hundred and sixty-five. At a later date the wish to realize the exact number of forty days led to the practice of beginning Lent on Ash Wednesday.
The ordinary rule on fasting days was to take but one meal a day and that only in the evening, while meat and, in the early centuries, wine were entirely forbidden.
These days were at one time observed with a Black Fast of strictly no more than one meal, without meat, dairy, oil, or wine. In the 10th century the custom of taking the only meal of the day at three o'clock was introduced. In the 14th century the meal was allowed at mid-day, and soon the practice of an evening collation (snack) became common. A morning collation was introduced in the early 19th century.
And the same goes for conventionally produced crops that is representative of the majority of grocery store produce and processed foods.
Animals provide more enjoyable, tasty recipes. Many animals consume other animals, not all animals are herbivores. Animals provide more nutrition from single source and are more filling and energy packed.
Yea, this is all emotional appeal and is not an argument for veganism. This is the result of another problem all together. Most non-vegans do not support any of this.
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding ones self in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius
Theyre not buying it. CNN, you dumb bastards! President Trump 2020
Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber
Ethics aside, what are we designed to eat?
Weston, I can see that this is pointless, and we're going around in circles, but I am just going to reply to a few of the things that you said.
You cannot love and respect animals while simultaneously support slitting their throats against their will, after a lifetime of confinement and exploitation. That is absurd, and the height of cognitive dissonance.
According to the Bible, all animals were herbivores in the beginning, that was in the scripture I posted for you twice, which you evidently did not read. Keep in mind, I was talking about original design and purpose. Not the way the world is now, but the way it was designed / intended to be.Then all animals would as well be strict herbivores, mammal teeth and digestion would be incapable of consuming meat, carnivorous plants would not exist, insects would be designed to no infest crops, etc.
As I stated a number of times, after the fall, things changed. There are other factors, but it's too much to get into right now, and if you're not even a Christian, then you wouldn't believe it anyway.
One more time, I was talking about original design and purpose. That's why I posted the Genesis scripture, as well as the prophetic scriptures that describe God's perfect will, which is a return to the peace and harmony that existed in the very beginning. You also ignored the scriptures I posted where God says He doesn't want sacrifice, He wants mercy and justice.There is much more in the Bible than just Genesis, I already provided you with many other quotations that clearly depict animal sacrifice and consumption.
Do you honestly think that the only ways of this fallen world are sodomy, rape, murder and devil worship? I'm sorry, but enslaving and exploiting animals and violently killing them just to make a profit is one of the ways of this fallen world. Of course there are many people who are simply unaware of the horrors of the animal industries But for the people who are aware, yet still partake in it, putting one's tastebuds above all else is a way of this fallen world. That is undeniable.Oh please, we are talking about consuming animals and plants for food, health, and useful product here, not sodomy, rape, murder, or devil worship.
Are you trying to equate fasting to the animal sacrifices of ancient Israel?Lent is more of a religious thing, it is not required by God in the Bible.
I'm not speaking against fasting... fasting of course can be a good thing when done in the right way with the right heart.
But getting back to the point you replied to, here is a scripture for you:
Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen: to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free and break every yoke?
Isaiah 58:6
That is not true, but thank you for making my point for me.Animals provide more enjoyable, tasty recipes.
I was just demonstrating to you what I meant by "disregard for life" because you misunderstood it the first time. And yes, it's true that many non-vegans do not support that stuff However, by eating dairy, eggs, fast food or certain animal products from the grocery store or a restaurant that uses factory farm meat Those people are supporting that, whether it's intentional or not. I really hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that's just the reality.Yea, this is all emotional appeal and is not an argument for veganism. This is the result of another problem all together. Most non-vegans do not support any of this.
Last edited by lilymc; 09-16-2017 at 07:22 PM.
I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.
― Henry David Thoreau
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...11&version=ERV
Cows are cool to eat.The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, 2 “Tell the Israelites: These are the animals you can eat: 3 If an animal has hooves that are split into two parts, and if that animal also chews the cud, then you may eat the meat from that animal.
Chickens are cool to eat.“You must also treat some birds as things that are wrong to eat. Stay away from them. It is a sickening thought for you to eat any of these birds: eagles, vultures, buzzards, 14 kites, all kinds of falcons, 15 all kinds of black birds, 16 ostriches, nighthawks, sea gulls, all kinds of hawks, 17 owls, cormorants, great owls, 18 water hens, pelicans, carrion vultures, 19 storks, all kinds of herons, hoopoes, and bats.
Genesis is a little more generous on what you can eat:These are the rules about all the tame animals, birds, all the animals in the sea, and all the animals that crawl on the ground. 47 These rules will help the people know which animals are unclean and which animals they are allowed to eat and which ones they cannot eat.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Genesis-9-3/
And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. 2And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. 3Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. 4But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. 5And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. 6Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
Among Christian vegetarians, there are different views this topic. One is that God gave us over to what we want, due to the hardness of our hearts, in the same way that God permits many things to happen in this fallen world that are not part of His perfect will.
I know you're not a Christian, but do you think that Christians should aim for God's perfect will or God's permissive will?
There's another view that the whole issue of flesh–eating in the Bible, including animal sacrifices, was added by "lying scribes" who simply wanted to eat flesh meat. That would go along with this scripture, and others similar to it:
“The multitude of your sacrifices—
what are they to me?” says the Lord.
“I have more than enough of burnt offerings,
of rams and the fat of fattened animals;
I have no pleasure
in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.
When you come to appear before me,
who has asked this of you,
this trampling of my courts?
Stop bringing meaningless offerings!
Your incense is detestable to me.
New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations—
I cannot bear your worthless assemblies.
Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals
I hate with all my being.
They have become a burden to me;
I am weary of bearing them.
When you spread out your hands in prayer,
I hide my eyes from you;
even when you offer many prayers,
I am not listening.
Your hands are full of blood!
Wash and make yourselves clean.
Take your evil deeds out of my sight;
stop doing wrong.
Learn to do right; seek justice.
Defend the oppressed.
Take up the cause of the fatherless;
plead the case of the widow.
Isaiah 1:11–17
That view would also go along with numerous extra biblical writings, which state that flesh–eating was introduced by the fallen angels, the ones alluded to in Genesis 6, who taught mankind many bad things and brought so much evil into this world.
There is much, much more to be said about all this. But it's a big topic in and of itself. Also, it's hard for me to type right now because I slammed my thumb hard while opening the window today, and all day long it has been throbbing and bleeding on my trackpad.
Last edited by lilymc; 09-16-2017 at 07:47 PM.
I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.
― Henry David Thoreau
Does that call into question the entire Bible if even some of it was written by "lying scribes"? Is it all the "True Word of God"? How does one know which parts to trust if some are lies? (Sorry -completely different topic! Hope your finger feels better!)There's another view that the whole issue of flesh–eating in the Bible, including animal sacrifices, was added by "lying scribes" who simply wanted to eat flesh meat.
That gets to the heart of the question.
Really, I don't think that scribes actually try to be deceptive. It's just that we're so many linguistics apart. So they didn't always understand a word and used a different one that was relative to their time that they thought was close. In some instances it does change tenor.
I tried to have this discussion with one of the twenty-somethings the other day who was proof-texting in order to purposely keep relating scripture and subsequently the actual biblical tenor in whole out of the discussion. Now that was deceptive. Although, I really think he was just cluelessly trolling.
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-16-2017 at 08:18 PM.
There were mistakes-or at least differences- in translation noted in some of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Some texts for example note the height of the Goliath- some had him at over nine feet yet others had him closer to six feet. http://www.biblestudymagazine.com/ex...-old-testament
Certainly more significant differences may have occurred over time through the various translations of the Bible. The Church over the centuries has debated even which books should be included in the Bible and which translations to use. A lot of it was not written until many, many years after events and kept alive via oral histories- which can change in each retelling.
Last edited by Zippyjuan; 09-16-2017 at 08:18 PM.
Yep.
Dang, Zip. Who busted your lip like that?
That's just wrong.
I'll see what I can for ya, man.
I'm still digging into this, so I haven't concluded anything yet. But there are a number of very, very interesting scriptures that actually seem to support this idea that certain scribes changed God's law in order to carry on with animal sacrifices and flesh eating that was taking place in pagan nations, and was a practice that they wanted to continue.
When I have the time (I have to go eat dinner now) and my thumb feels better, I'm going to compile these scriptures and I'll post some of them.
But to answer your question, I think that our God-given discernment and intuition is important, and knowing the heart of God… God is merciful and loving and has a self-sacrificing kind of love. God created the animals, so obviously God loves and has mercy for His creation.
Of course, God is sovereign and He has the right to take life as He sees fit. But I do not believe that God wants us to needlessly kill innocent animals. And I absolutely believe that factory farming and other cruel practices going on today are heartbreaking to God.
I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.
― Henry David Thoreau
Did Jesus eat meat at the Last Supper? http://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/...q=luke+22:7-16
From Luke:
Matthew leaves off the mention of lamb.7 Then came the day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. 8 Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and make preparations for us to eat the Passover.” 9 “Where do you want us to prepare for it?” they asked. 10 He replied, “As you enter the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him to the house that he enters, 11 and say to the owner of the house, ‘The Teacher asks: Where is the guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?’ 12 He will show you a large room upstairs, all furnished. Make preparations there.” 13 They left and found things just as Jesus had told them. So they prepared the Passover. 14 When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. 15 And he said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16 For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.”
John does not say what was served but calls it a Passover meal. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...3&version=NASB17 On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Where do you want us to make preparations for you to eat the Passover?”
18 He replied, “Go into the city to a certain man and tell him, ‘The Teacher says: My appointed time is near. I am going to celebrate the Passover with my disciples at your house.’” 19 So the disciples did as Jesus had directed them and prepared the Passover.
Lamb is an important part of a Passover meal. http://www.dummies.com/education/hol...assover-seder/13 Now before the Feast of the Passover, Jesus knowing that His hour had come that He would depart out of this world to the Father, having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them [a]to the end. 2 During supper, the devil having already put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, to betray Him, 3 Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He had come forth from God and was going back to God, 4 *got up from supper, and *laid aside His garments; and taking a towel, He girded Himself.
Roasted lamb shankbone: One of the most striking symbols of Passover is the roasted lamb shankbone (called zeroah), which commemorates the paschal (lamb) sacrifice made the night the ancient Hebrews fled Egypt. Some people say it symbolizes the outstretched arm of God (the Hebrew word zeroah can mean “arm”).
Last edited by Zippyjuan; 09-16-2017 at 08:44 PM.
Colossians 2:16-17 (KJV)
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present. ~ Rudolf Steiner
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