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Thread: Bombshells in the Ahmed Arbery case

  1. #1

    Bombshells in the Ahmed Arbery case

    Good video from a conservative black YouTuber who supports Trump. (In other words not me). It's short and worth watching. But if you want the cliff notes, here they are:

    1) One of the co-defendants (the guy riding behind in the truck who shot the video) gave a statement to the police that the shooter used the n-word after he killed Ahmed.

    2) There's social media footage of n-word usage by the shooter previously.

    3) The shooter admitted he had no evidence that Ahmed stole anything but he just had a "gut feeling" that Ahmed was the same person who had been stealing things other times. (In other words he had no probable cause.)



    Other developments, the shooters sister posted Ahmed's dead body on snapchat.

    https://nypost.com/2020/05/18/sister...y-to-snapchat/

    It turns out the claims that Ahmad was wearing boots and khaki shorts were fake news. Most certainly the "hammer" claim was fake news as it's in NONE of the videos!

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...6e5_story.html

    https://www.thenorthstar.com/fact-vs...y-murder-case/

    Surveillance footage from the home under construction showed numerous people, white and black, going in and out of the home in the weeks up to the shooting. (See above)

    The more facts come out, the worse things look for the McMichaels. If your neighbor hasn't asked you to watch his house, does not have up any no trespassing signs, doesn't call the police when people go in and out of his house and you see someone go in and out of his house and he's not carrying anything, you don't have "probable cause" to cut the man off in the road with your truck while brandishing a shotgun and attempt a citizens arrest as your buddy is following behind him in a truck. You just don't.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  3. #2
    Not sure how any of this is relevant, or destroys any of the bombshells previously discovered by the other side..

    Something that is highly relevant is that there was a "NO TRESPASSING" sign posted on the construction site, and that actually changes things significantly. That means you can say in court that Arbery definitely knew he was committing a crime, and from the 911 calls we know that the son witnessed him in the commission of a crime.

    That means they had the right to perform a citizens arrest, PERIOD. There is nothing you can say to change that. It doesn't matter if he stole something that time, because for one thing, trespassing with the intent to steal is ALSO a crime, that would be the SECOND crime he committed, the first being trespassing. If you get into somebody's house and find nothing to steal and leave, that's still a crime - but it's a different crime, so is trespassing.

    Also, there was video footage of Arbery in the house several times in the previous months - all that does is strengthen there case even more. It also destroys the MSM narrative that this guy was just out jogging.

    They went out to talk to him, and he ran away. They cut him off at the pass, and you say that like they just "cut him off" like he was driving a car.. lol, ya sorry, no that's not how it works. A person can change direction whenever they want, yet he ran for at least 60, but probably more like 100+ yard, the entire length of a football field JUST TO GET TO THE TRUCK!!

    Then he tried to take their gun and murder them..

    I'm really not sure how much more cut and dry this needs to be.
    Last edited by dannno; 06-18-2020 at 10:27 AM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  4. #3
    I suspect you are lying again but I will give you a chance to prove you aren't lying by posting a credible link to the so called no trespassing sign. And a link the the right wing hate sites that put up the fake news about the hammer do not count.

    The use of the n-word goes to motive.

    The fact that the shooter told the police he had no evidence that Abrery stole anything prove no probable cause.

    The fact that multiple people had gone in and out of the house in question with no incident undercuts your unsourced "no trespassing sign" claim.

    You just make shyt up.

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Not sure how any of this is relevant, or destroys any of the bombshells previously discovered by the other side..

    Something that is highly relevant is that there was a "NO TRESPASSING" sign posted on the construction site, and that actually changes things significantly. That means you can say in court that Arbery definitely knew he was committing a crime, and from the 911 calls we know that the son witnessed him in the commission of a crime.

    That means they had the right to perform a citizens arrest, PERIOD. There is nothing you can say to change that. It doesn't matter if he stole something that time, because for one thing, trespassing with the intent to steal is ALSO a crime, that would be the SECOND crime he committed, the first being trespassing. If you get into somebody's house and find nothing to steal and leave, that's still a crime - but it's a different crime, so is trespassing.

    Also, there was video footage of Arbery in the house several times in the previous months - all that does is strengthen there case even more. It also destroys the MSM narrative that this guy was just out jogging.

    They went out to talk to him, and he ran away. They cut him off at the pass, and you say that like they just "cut him off" like he was driving a car.. lol, ya sorry, no that's not how it works. A person can change direction whenever they want, yet he ran for at least 60, but probably more like 100+ yard, the entire length of a football field JUST TO GET TO THE TRUCK!!

    Then he tried to take their gun and murder them..

    I'm really not sure how much more cut and dry this needs to be.
    Last edited by jmdrake; 06-18-2020 at 10:42 AM.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    I suspect you are lying again but I will give you a chance to prove you aren't lying by posting a credible link to the so called no trespassing sign. And a link the the right wing hate sites that put up the fake news about the hammer do not count.

    English bought the property in June 2016 for $120,000 and has built much of the house — which is marked with a no trespassing sign, the Mail said.
    https://nypost.com/2020/05/12/man-wh...s-saggy-pants/

    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    The use of the n-word goes to motive.
    Or they were really pissed off at him for trying to murder them.. There are some white AND black people who do not in fact refer to all black people as the n-word, but do refer to specific black people who are thugs/criminals/gang bangers with that term. Not me, I don't condone it but if they were essentially describing him as a criminal then it becomes more understandable why they would be yelling that after he tried to murder them.


    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    The fact that the shooter told the police he had no evidence that Abrery stole anything prove no probable cause.
    For the sixth time, that is totally wrong. First crime, trespassing - second crime burglary - burglary still applies even if you don't steal anything, if the intention is to steal something that is still burglary. I've explained this multiple times, you have zero argument on the "probably cause" front, which is the most important one, btw.


    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    The fact that multiple people had gone in and out of the house in question with no incident undercuts your unsourced "no trespassing sign" claim.

    You just make shyt up.
    There were incidents, the police had been called out there, and the Sheriff had deputized the elder McMichael to help watch over the house..

    But Arbery, we know, was actually there multiple times.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  6. #5
    Okay. For once you actually have a source. I guess all of those white people who are on video having gone in and out of the house should have been chased down with a shotgun too.


    Or they were really pissed off at him for trying to murder them.. There are some white AND black people who do not in fact refer to all black people as the n-word, but do refer to specific black people who are thugs/criminals/gang bangers with that term. Not me, I don't condone it but if they were essentially describing him as a criminal then it becomes more understandable why they would be yelling that after he tried to murder them.
    That does not explain the n-word usage before the day of the shooting.


    For the sixth time, that is totally wrong. First crime, trespassing - second crime burglary - burglary still applies even if you don't steal anything, if the intention is to steal something that is still burglary. I've explained this multiple times, you have zero argument on the "probably cause" front, which is the most important one, btw.
    What exactly would someone on foot be intending to steal from an empty house? An HVAC unit? Too heavy. Copper pipe and/or wire? Still too heavy and he had no tools to cut them out with. Total BS argument that has now been admitted by one of the defendants to be false.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Okay. For once you actually have a source. I guess all of those white people who are on video having gone in and out of the house should have been chased down with a shotgun too.
    I am 100% certain that would have happened had it been witnessed, especially after McMichael had been deputized by the Sheriff to watch the house.



    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    That does not explain the n-word usage before the day of the shooting.
    It could if they were using in the context of the second explanation. But of course the other issue is, again, not condoning its usage but not everybody who uses that word actually wants to kill innocent black people.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    What exactly would someone on foot be intending to steal from an empty house? An HVAC unit? Too heavy. Copper pipe and/or wire? Still too heavy and he had no tools to cut them out with. Total BS argument that has now been admitted by one of the defendants to be false.
    There was already thousands of dollars of possessions taken from the house.

    There is also a video of a tool that you can see behind him that had been dropped that you couldn't see before he ran by, everybody has seen that I don't know why you ignore it. The thing is, even if somebody else just randomly dropped a tool in the street a few minutes before, it doesn't really matter, but the fact that you can see a tool in the street on the video right where he ran by after they told him on the phone to "drop it" is just more evidence of what we know happened.

    I'm not sure why you are in such denial about all of this, it's really obvious to everybody else.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    I am 100% certain that would have happened had it been witnessed, especially after McMichael had been deputized by the Sheriff to watch the house.
    And I am 100% certain that you are 100% wrong.


    It could if they were using in the context of the second explanation. But of course the other issue is, again, not condoning its usage but not everybody who uses that word actually wants to kill innocent black people.
    And not every Muslim who posts jihadists things on their website and yells "Allah Akbar" after killing a Christian wants to kill innocent Christians either.


    There was already thousands of dollars of possessions taken from the house.
    By people on foot? The previous 911 call where Larry English talked about concern about burglaries he mentioned a car being involved. Again, you can't steal and HVAC unit, copper or anything else likely to be in a renovated house on foot. The fishing gear was stolen from a boat, not from inside the house. And it's hard to fit thousands of dollars worth of fishing gear in your pocket. No probable cause. Not even close.


    There is also a video of a tool that you can see behind him that had been dropped that you couldn't see before he ran by, everybody has seen that I don't know why you ignore it.
    Because no such video exists. That is a fabrication and a lie. All that I have ever seen are still photos. Post the damn video! I have asked you and others to do that before. You can't because it doesn't exist.

    The thing is, even if somebody else just randomly dropped a tool in the street a few minutes before, it doesn't really matter, but the fact that you can see a tool in the street on the video right where he ran by after they told him on the phone to "drop it" is just more evidence of what we know happened.

    I'm not sure why you are in such denial about all of this, it's really obvious to everybody else.
    Post the damn video. It's bvllshyt.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Post the damn video. It's bvllshyt.
    Danke posted it with a timestamp in the other thread in the middle of a bunch of your ranting posts.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  11. #9
    @dannno

    Where's the hammer?



    Where's the hammer?



    Show me the hammer.



    If you are trying to say the object at 5:08 is a hammer, it doesn't look like one. Certainly it's not the staged picture of a hammer that white supremacists have been circulating to claim it's a hammer. The the case of the restaurant owner you were trying to claim he shot at police until I showed those were BBQ tongs in his hand. Then you tried to switch to "Well the police were shot at by somebody" which is what I acknowledged from the beginning!

    What is apparent from that video is that the third suspect at one point hit Arbery with his truck. (He must have admitted that to investigators). It's also apparent that one of the McMichaels pointed a gun at Arbery before Arbery put his hand on the shotgun. I've been saying all along that "open carry" laws do not give you the right to brandish a firearm at someone. So man gets hit by truck, two trucks are trying to pin him in, at least one gun has already been pointed at him, his right of self defence has kicked in.
    Last edited by jmdrake; 06-18-2020 at 12:24 PM.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Danke posted it with a timestamp in the other thread in the middle of a bunch of your ranting posts.
    @Danke also falsely claimed that two men in the video in the restaurant were carrying guns when the truth is that only one possibly had a gun so I don't put a lot of faith in Danke's video analysis. After I gave you my analysis you had to back off your bvllshyt claim that restaurant owner had shot at police. But you just changed tunes without admitting you were wrong.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    @dannno

    Where's the hammer?
    Well it's in the thumbnail of the video you posted.. lol... are you actually being serious right now?




    Close-up..





    Also, nobody has claimed to know EXACTLY what kind of tool it was, but I believe they said he was carrying a hammer and they told him to drop it, but it could have been a different tool that resembles a hammer as well.

    Not that their story depends on it being a hammer, or that he took something, it's just more evidence that makes you look crazy.
    Last edited by dannno; 06-18-2020 at 12:40 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Well it's in the thumbnail of the video you posted.. lol... are you actually being serious right now?
    You're not very bright are you? I already told you that doesn't look like a hammer. Also there was NOTHING in his hand before, during, or after leaving the house. And lastly, if you watched the video I posted,you'd know that was a long ass chase before the final 90 seconds where he got killed. So you're argument is that he ran that whole time with the hammer, then through it down at the last minute, but you never see it being thrown down, and it's not in his hands before, during or immediately after leaving the house? Seriously...that's your argument?


    Also, nobody has claimed to know EXACTLY what kind of tool it was, but I believe they said he was carrying a hammer and they told him to drop it, but it could have been a different tool that resembles a hammer as well.
    LOL. Liar. You claimed he had a hammer. Now you're saying it might not be a hammer. It could be a tree limb or a crack in the road.

    Not that their story depends on it being a hammer, or that he took something, it's just more evidence that makes you look crazy.
    Dude, you're the one that thinks Trump set off tactical nukes. The only way for me to be sane it to look crazy to a deluded liar like yourself. Again, there is NO VIDEO of Ahmaud carrying a hammer. None. Zilch. Nada. All you have is something that even you have to admit is likely not a hammer. You have no evidence that it's a "tool" of any kind. You have no video or still photograph of it in Arbrey's hand. The police, who initially were on the McMichaels side, said nothing about a hammer in their initial police report. The district attorney who wrote the letter arguing against charging the McMichaels said nothing about a hammer. Unless Arbrey has force teleportation powers like in Star Wars The Rise Of Skywalker, you're full of shyt. And since Star Wars is fiction...you're full of shyt.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post

    LOL. Liar. You claimed he had a hammer. Now you're saying it might not be a hammer. It could be a tree limb or a crack in the road..

    Nah, it's a tool of some sort. It has been said by witnesses to be a hammer, but they could have been mistaken too.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Nah, it's a tool of some sort. It has been said by witnesses to be a hammer, but they could have been mistaken too.
    If it's a tool (and there is no evidence that it is) then it is a tool that was not in Arbrey's hand before entering the house, while in the house, or immediately after leaving the house. Link the the witness statements you're talking about?
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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