I think this is at least the second Decoration Day I have not been pd since '79 or so and I do not care . If that zuckerburg twit was my kid I would have him pulling weeds or something all weekend .
Do something Danke
Originally Posted by Mordan
Ok, that's 1.8 trillion. And that's only 6K a year to live on.
What about SS and Medicare? Does it replace that?
By the way food stamps cost only 70 billion a year.
Last edited by Madison320; 05-29-2017 at 08:39 AM.
State mandated paid holidays were fought toes and nail before they become law in some countries. They argued that it was immoral to give something free to workers and employees.I'm not following. What do paid holidays have to do with UI?
It will depend on each country and what their citizens want. They are trying out the UI in Finland with 2000 unemployed people. 560 euros per month. No conditions.
Tooth and nail is the American euphemism...
1. It's NOT free, lol.
2. It is immoral to force someone to give something to someone they don't want to give them.
Oh c'mon, that's easy, just double everyone's taxes.........
FJB
You can't get something for nothing.
You can't have freedom for free.
FJB
Don't you need a government to have any kind of Market? I mean if you draw up contracts between parties, some entity has to enforce them right?
I'm not sure how I feel about the potential for price inflation. Haven't people been complaining for years about stagnating or even declining wages? If that prices were so closely tied to income, would we see a wide range of products like cars becoming cheaper? I'm not sure bread makers can really assume a significant amount of this new money would be for buying their bread and they should spike up their prices.
UBI is an interesting idea almost like Minimum Wage that came before.
And just as bad or worse.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
The amount of religious animosity towards it is staggering. The idea is attacked by both the right and the left, albeit for different reasons.
UBI is nothing more than corporate welfare. No one on the dole is going to build, invent, create, or produce wealth or capitol. The money will go to comcast, verizon, walmart, pepsico, etal., just like welfare works now. And just like now, working slobs will pay for it, inhibiting their ability to build, invent, create, or produce wealth or capitol.
All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
-Albert Camus
Ahh, Hubris. The Zuck thinks he can be President. Well.... it will make an interesting race! We'll see if he's read his Cialdini. He thinks he has a giant mind-control device so he can't be beat. He's certainly right on the first clause: he does have a giant mind-control device. So that will help him. But on the second, I don't think he can beat a natural like Trump. Plus he's 5′ 7″. And his looks aren't quite right.
Sorry, I'm calling it: Trump in 2020. Massive Trump victory.
Facebook delenda est.
To each according to his Stupidity,
And also, according to his Seed.
Dysgenics matter. It will destroy us, just like it has destroyed everybody else. And there are no promising barbarians waiting in the wings this time. When Anglo-Western Civilization collapses, everything we love (well, at least everything I love) may be done for good.
It may never come back.
Fade to Black.
Darkness Forever.
I follow Zuckerberg's feed on Facebook and do have mixed feelings about him as a social problem solver. I do like how he gets behind technology or cleaner energy projects as he comes from a technical background.
I'm not sure about his views that seem to be that bringing people closer together is always a good thing or leads to social harmony, especially when I've just seen the vicious political arguing last year to the point of people unfriending each other.
There is something off about a computer programmer or technology CEO feeling ready to solve problems of sociology. Maybe he thinks he just needs the right algorithms.
I think that Universal benefit system may be a serious option for the future. Society has moved quicker than I thought. A decade ago I was a firm believer in the energy crisis, and I haven't let that go. But certain innovation is changing society, and some energy efficiency may be gained from new technology for vehicles, like the electric engine. This has certain to be confirmed, and even if proven to of discarded this subject to history, eventually another global problem will occur such as medical/health, or just over population. And Environment destruction.
As for certain job roles, well those have been gone as the began to be phased out a century ago, with the new changes in society, so that is nothing new. But yes the world of employment is changing to due to the use of personal computers of all sizes, compared to society twenty years or twenty five, where you could buy a pizza on Pizzahut.com if you lived in America, that was the first change.
Or the now early development of AI or powerful computers to drive a vehicle. Less money may be paid to drivers in the future as a result, or even take off an hour out of a day's employment.
What is an "electric engine?"
Pfizer Macht Frei!
Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.
Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!
Short Income Tax Video
The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes
The Federalist Papers, No. 15:
Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.
Well 1) 560 euro in Finland isn't enough to survive with their welfare-state standards of having your own apartment - not by a long shot. They must subsidize housing as well.
2) UBI as an alternative to complicated, costly to maintain systems of managed welfare has the same appeal as simplifying the tax code. If the welfare state is a given, then UBI could reduce overhead.
3) Vountary charity, not force or fraud, is OUR answer to helping the destitute. Once upon a time it was the Christian tradition to tithe 10% of your income to charity. This ecology of giving enabled those without means to survive in an era that was 10 times poorer than our current society. Today even less than 10%, administered through churches and private organizations, would support the basic survival needs (plus internet and a grotty computer) of those who can not work or find friends and family to support them.
4) Nobody who is a follower of Ron Paul or libertarianism thinks the state should be in charge of alms to the poor. If they do they're a traitor to our cause. Period.
P.S. Helmuth is spot-on: Dysgenics is death. It is managed, elite-driven devolution.
Last edited by merkelstan; 05-29-2017 at 11:40 PM.
>_<
The UBI is not being in charge of the poor. It is providing an unconditional basic income to kick start the social ladder and happiness. It is better than everything we have..
Dysgenics lol. Guys, genes don't care. as long as you live and make children, your genes are happy. AI and genetic engineering will solve that anyways
So now you are whining that 560 euros is not enough? Well the UBI is not supposed to allow you to live like a prince. Get the 560 and you are on your own. That's why the left hates the UBI. And that's why I love it. It is liberty!!! Give people the money and let the cards fall where they want. If the UBI is really becoming a reality, there will be a market for 300 euros one bed room apartments.
Ummm, NO!
Free $#@! ain't got 'nuthin to do with liberty.
Lol, my sig line is too full already or I would keep that one too.
"The Patriarch"
No sparky, liberty requires that you provide your own basic income. That way you aren't dependent on mommy/daddy government.
"The Patriarch"
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius
“They’re not buying it. CNN, you dumb bastards!” — President Trump 2020
Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber
This is coming from the guy that buys other mansions next to his mansion just for privacy and so he wont have neighbors? Yeah, sounds legit.
enhanced deficit ?mocks: 'Fantastic, equality is the way to go.'
....ummm, yes, 'equality under the law' and/or 'equality of opportunity' IS the way to go... [...if you are mocking 'equality of outcome,' i agree with you...]
...'money' is 'the great $coreboard of life'..
...i guess it's too much to ask for a system where everyone is treated equally, PARTICULARLY as to the creation and issuance of 'new money'...(hint for anyone with a republicrat-level understanding of money/economics: ...'we' are SURELY NOT treated equally here!!...)
...any decent person who truly understands the current system of creation and issuance of 'new money' is horrified by this economic order under which we are en$laved...unfortunately not enough people truly understand...abject, miserable ignorance of the HIDEOUS $tatus quo is near-complete among republicans and democrats...ugh...
Last edited by H. E. Panqui; 05-30-2017 at 05:23 AM.
"social contract" is the lamest logicalyl fallacious bull$#@! ever conceived for Taxation apologists.
Because those that came before us made the rules, by virtue of being born late we are subject to them.
The wisdom of Swordy:
On bringing the troops home
On fighting corruption:
Fascism Defined
And that, right there, is what is wrong with the technocratic nightmare we're rushing headfirst into.
In a world where people are superfluous and unneeded, what incentive will there be for anybody to create or do anything?
Excellent! Some people want to talk about dysgenics!
Or at least to mock the very concept and its mention.
.....Good enough for me!Let's dive in!
Right! Exactly right! That is what we, or at least I, am concerned about. My fundamental understanding of this fact about genes leads to my concern.Guys, genes don't care. As long as you live and make children, your genes are happy.
Allow me to post a brief excerpt from a book. People may not read books any more, but we can at least find the time to read paragraphs, right? Come on, please. Just humor me.
THE TRIUMPH OF THE FUNDAMENTALISTS
There is no God but Allah. —The Quran
Imagine a society where epidemic diseases are common and most children die before the age of five, and yet the birth-rate is so high that only famine keeps the population in check. Women are illiterate and confined to the home, their sexuality rigidly controlled. They can be beaten or even killed at the whim of their menfolk. Many gain little pleasure from sex as a result of genital mutilation in childhood. Life for everyone is a grinding struggle for survival, with much of the slender agricultural surplus taken by the rapacious tax agents of an alien and hated power. Religion and tradition are all-pervasive.
This is the traditional culture of the Middle East and it is arguably the most advanced culture on Earth. Most advanced not in terms of technology or wealth but in its ability to endure and reproduce. It is the end product of thousands of years of cultural evolution. In the future, it may well be our world as well.
You see, we may look at the Mohommedans and laugh at them. They are hopelessly backward. They are unbelievably impoverished. They seem utterly incapable of being convinced of the virtues of high technology such as, say, toilet paper. Ha, ha, ha! We are so far superior to them! They are not the most advanced culture, but one of the least advanced! Right?
Right?
It would seem so from our perspective. But genes don't really care how many cars you have. Genes are remarkably non-avaricious. Your Ferrari is only a plus factor from nature's perspective if you are using it to make more babies.
Well, or using it to run over would-be competitors.
Other than that, it's evolutionarily irrelevant.
The West has a lot of money. Whoopie! Are we using it to out-breed everybody else and "take our rightful place as the top dogs of the world?" No? The percentage of Europeans in the world is going down, not up?
Wait, what, you say? Even the absolute number is going down? But the West rules the world! We are the Big King Daddies! The Phat Enchiladas! We have all the best toys. We totally the best, dawg! And don'chu fogetit!
Mother Nature needs to sit us down and have a little Talk with us. A little heart-to-heart. "I'm sorry son, but your toys just are not interesting to Mommy. What is important to me is that you have lots and lots of children, who in turn have lots and lots of children, in perpetuity. That is how to win my favor and my graces. That is how to play my game."
This is an optimistic view. I would welcome it coming true. I cannot share in your optimism, though. I wonder if you have seriously thought it through. A few questions:
1. What percentage of people do you think would be comfortable having children they knew were significantly smarter than they are?
2. What percentage of people do you think are even comfortable with the idea that a significant number of people anywhere might be much smarter than they are, much less in their own homes? The problem is much worse than the ~100% of drivers who are above-average. Our society has fetishized intelligence to such a degree, it's now considered the apex quality, and the one people are the most sensitive and defensive about by far. No one is comfortable thinking of themselves as of below-average intelligence. No one. Even though 50% of people most assuredly are.
So how, again, exactly, is genetic engineering going to solve this? The below-average 50% are the ones having kids right now. The above average 50% don't need genetic engineering. They already have what it takes. All they need to do is stop using contraception and voila! Their kin will be kenned, san high-tech helix rend.
So how are you going to convince the bottom 50% that a) they are kind of stupid, and b) they should spend the next 25 years with a couple insufferable brats with IQs 20 points higher than theirs and who know it? That's gonna be a tough row to hoe. You're paddling uphill against a lot of very strong human nature. People fundamentally want offspring that are what? Like them! Especially in today's over-the-top narcissistic world, people are going to use genetic engineering (assume it all works perfectly and is wonderful and predictable, etc., etc.) for one thing: to make babies who are more like them. Because.... they are awesome. I mean, what could be greater than wonderful, glorious me? Break out the photocopier and let's bless the world.
In sum:
Genetic engineering does not solve nor even address the problem of the top 50%, which is: disinterest in and indeed antipathy towards the idea of reproducing themselves.
Genetic engineering seems highly unlikely to catch hold among the hispanic and black welfare mothers of the world as a wonderful way to give them a bunch of kids to whom they can't relate and can't understand. Instead of kids they can understand and love and who will love them, they'll get some arrogant jerks who will probably resent and look down on them. Great. What a deal!
Last edited by helmuth_hubener; 05-30-2017 at 08:42 AM.
no time right now to answer you bro.. just that intelligence is a human concept. nature does not care.
nature cares about genes, like those
PS: I am not that smart obviously since i support UBI. Some people are smarter than me. So what? i want my children to be smarter than me.
Last edited by Mordan; 05-30-2017 at 09:19 AM.
I think the population of Finland is more than 2000. It's not UI unless it covers the whole population.
I'll admit I was briefly interested in the idea as complete replacement to ALL welfare programs. Obviously I'd prefer no welfare system at all. But the numbers don't make sense. If you make the UI amount low enough for us to afford, like around $400 a month (that's about 1.5 trillion), no one could come close to living off that. That won't even pay your rent.
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