MCAT & Med School questions...

[Nirvikalpa]

Anyone out there have any tips for me to take the MCATs, or think they can read this and assess my situation...? Comments would be very appreciated...

I am going to be taking the MCATs three times in 2010... I know three is the maximum, and that all 3 scores will be sent to Medical schools... but this I think is the best option for me to get used to the method of testing.

I guess I should put some background information on here...

As of right now, my GPA (science/math) is around a 3.5 - I also just want to state I did not take just 'basic' science classes required for graduation. Most of my C+'s and B's were from classes in the 300-400 level. My mathematics education is Calc 1 (freshman yr), Calc 2 (sophomore), Calc 3 (junior) and Differential Equations (junior), and I received a B-, A, (should be) A, and (should be) A, respectively.

My Organic Chem grades are a C+ (for OC1) and improved to a B (OCII). OChem definitely was my hardest course thus far, and I know I have to review it for the MCATs (already bought a ton of books, and my teacher agreed to tutor me and help me when I so need it).

For the past 2 years, I have been the *primary* peer Science tutor, at 30 hours a semester - is this good to continue? Will this look good to Med schools? This will amount to 180 hours if I continue to senior year of college (120 if I stop after next semester).

I have also volunteered for the nutrition program for senior citizens over the summer (40 hours), and also helped teach middle school students science courses relating to engineering and biological sciences (30 and 40 hours the past 2 years).

Here's where the bad grades come in... for both Anatomy and Physiology I and II, I had the same teacher and there were, er, 'disagreements' between us. I went from a C+ and decreased to a C... I was thinking of re-taking these courses somewhere, would that be in my best interest? I know I wouldn't walk away until I received nothing less than a B or B+...

However, I also heard that in those harder classes (OChem, Anat & Phys), med schools really don't expect you to do 'great' or they'll see it as the teacher just handing it to you.

I am also going to be starting my undergrad research which requires the use of GC-MS (gas chromatography mass spectrometry) to detect pthalate amounts in water or other liquid substances that their plastic containers leeched. I've very interested in reproductive biology (would like to be an Obstetrician or Fertility Doctor, etc etc), so the estrogen-mimetic compounds interest me... and they're virtually everywhere! I'm hoping this will also look good for my Med School applications...

I guess I am just trying to find some answers. If anyone can give me any help or comment, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

[kathy88]

anatomy and physiology are the hardest undergrad classes anyone can take

I've seen people brought to tears by them

You are a well rounded student, and schools will consider this

where are you thinking of applying? My daughter is a biochemistry major and plans to apply

to pharmacology school at cornell when she graduates but we have a while

I would continue the tutoring unless it is affecting your study time

[youngbuck]

How much English do you have? Medical school don't just look at the science and math classes. I'm not sure if it applies to all medical school, but I know of one, in particular, that requires you to have 8 full semesters of college level English classes. It's the number one reason for rejecting applications from otherwise qualified candidates.

I plan on going to med school as well, but still have a couple more years to go until I'm in the position to take the MCAT.

[Nirvikalpa]

How much English do you have? Medical school don't just look at the science and math classes. I'm not sure if it applies to all medical school, but I know of one, in particular, that requires you to have 8 full semesters of college level English classes. It's the number one reason for rejecting applications from otherwise qualified candidates.

I plan on going to med school as well, but still have a couple more years to go until I'm in the position to take the MCAT.

Are you sure it's not 8 full semester hours? I took 2 English classes... which is the requirement for the Med schools I want to apply to, and thought it was pretty standard.

If I get rejected for not taking English classes while there are some passing med school who can barely speak English... we're going to have a problem.

Anyway, my non-science GPA is higher than my math/science GPA (2 English, Philosophy, Religion, Anthropology, etc etc)... around a 3.6-3.7.

where are you thinking of applying?

I started looking at schools... I like TCMC (The Commonwealth Medical College), which is the newest in the country, located close to my current college and looking for students in the area to become doctors because they are in great need. I'm going to start looking at schools in the South...

I'm pretty much thinking wherever I decide to go to medical school is where I am going to live around... so I'm trying to take into consideration a lot of factors.

[youngbuck]

Are you sure it's not 8 full semester hours?

I swear I read the prerequisites for the particular medical school I'm talking about a dozen times, and I never remember is saying "semester hour." I even showed it to my sister and we read it together, and were discussing how crazy it was that it said "8 full semesters." Sure enough, I just went to double check and it says hours. I either missed that part a dozen times or they recently edited it.

[Nirvikalpa]

Nikki, don't they average the tests of the three?

It is up to the particular school what they want to do with the scores they receive. Some take the best, some average, some take into account improvements of the scores... but they all receive every single score.

[Nirvikalpa]

I swear I read the prerequisites for the particular medical school I'm talking about a dozen times, and I never remember is saying "semester hour." I even showed it to my sister and we read it together, and were discussing how crazy it was that it said "8 full semesters." Sure enough, I just went to double check and it says hours. I either missed that part a dozen times or they recently edited it.

Still pretty odd actually, since most college English courses are 3 credits, and usually you are required to take 2 classes... so that would be 6 semester hours.

[pappy]

It is up to the particular school what they want to do with the scores they receive. Some take the best, some average, some take into account improvements of the scores... but they all receive every single score.

ha look at ad below :-)

how to get into med school with 24 MCAT and 2.75 GPA :-)

http://www.premedhelp.com

seriously though I am a doc and don't have many good ideas.

my gpa was not great--mid 3's. i did do fairly well on mcat.

focus on what you can change from here on out. if you can go into an interview and say look what happened here. i realized my GPA was x and needed to be z so i worked like a dog and got it to y. yadda yadda yadda,

focus on acing the MCAT. only so much you can do here but it can help more than anything-sad but true. a high score can negate a lot of negatives. they will tell you this is not true but i don't believe it

also if you are weak compared to others you gotta ace the interview--not necessarily say what they want to hear but let your personality shine through. show them you are a passionate person--not just about medicine but anything. connect in any way you can with interviewers.

if you're a spiritual person --pray. mostly providence that i got in--still believe it to this day. BUT God helps those who help themselves.

pappy

[pacelli]

my gpa was not great--mid 3's. i did do fairly well on mcat.

focus on what you can change from here on out. if you can go into an interview and say look what happened here. i realized my GPA was x and needed to be z so i worked like a dog and got it to y. yadda yadda yadda,

focus on acing the MCAT. only so much you can do here but it can help more than anything-sad but true. a high score can negate a lot of negatives. they will tell you this is not true but i don't believe it

also if you are weak compared to others you gotta ace the interview--not necessarily say what they want to hear but let your personality shine through. show them you are a passionate person--not just about medicine but anything. connect in any way you can with interviewers.

if you're a spiritual person --pray. mostly providence that i got in--still believe it to this day. BUT God helps those who help themselves.

pappy

Good advice. My wife is a surgeon and was of the same mentality when she took the MCATs. She took one of the in-person MCAT study courses (I think through Kaplan) and it helped her immensely. They have computer practice tests, feedback, etc. Taking the MCATs is as much about test taking skill as it is about content knowledge.

I am going to be taking the MCATs three times in 2010... I know three is the maximum, and that all 3 scores will be sent to Medical schools... but this I think is the best option for me to get used to the method of testing.

You should not be using the actual MCATs as a form of practice to "get used to the method of testing". A med school could see this as a red flag, i.e., "well I'll just kill 2 patients just to get used to the method of medical treatment". Seriously though-Use practice tests from a MCAT study program to get used to the method of testing, and to assess your level of preparedness. Also have you determined the cut-off score for each med school? How many applications will you be submitting?

Doing great on the MCATs will get you an interview, and they'll be considered against all other grades & your interview performance. You can have awesome scores, blow the interview, and they'll reject you.

As far as your A&P grades, if asked, you'll have to come up with a more productive way of talking about your performance instead of saying that the professor & you had "disagreements". That's a major red flag that tells a potential med school that maybe you'll be more trouble than you are worth. Why should they consider someone who gets into disagreements, when they could accept someone who admits that they were initially overwhelmed with the content, and learned some valuable and rewarding study habits as a result?

Also don't let scores, grades, and numbers seduce you into neglecting attention to your interview skills. Every college has some form of a career center-- my wife thought she was pretty good at interviewing, but went to her university's career center where they put her through a few months of interviewing skills training, mock med school interviews, and gave her a bunch of helpful feedback. She was glad that she did go through that- she didn't expect to receive questions during her interviews asking her how she would pay for med school. And during her actual interviews, some schools did ask about it.

The other thing that she did which worked out pretty well for her was to apply to lots of med schools (~14), even though she was really only interested in either Penn Med or Harvard. Her philosophy was that she knew she'd probably get rejected, but she wanted to make sure that she applied to enough schools so that she'd get plenty of interviews. She scheduled the interviews whenever she had the option to do so-- luckily she was able to schedule her top choice LAST, so she she knew exactly what to expect. There was a lot of flying around and traveling during those 3-4 months. She always traveled with 2 suits (1 of which was in her carry-on bag), and the contents of her interview bag resembled a survivalist's "bug out bag". Extra hose, cash, band aids, umbrella, mirror, you name it.

As far as your volunteer work, you might want to consider volunteering for some form of a medical setting that is more focused on your proposed area of specialization. If you're thinking about OB/Fertility, you might consider visiting some fertility clinics and talking to the Director about volunteering.

Don't forget about letters of recommendation. Letters of recommendation are nice to have from college professors, but those letters are all relatively generic and med school application panels are used to seeing them from college profs. Now, if you could get one from an ob/gyn who runs a fertility clinic, that will definitely raise some eyebrows when they are making the decision about trashing your application vs. inviting you to interview.

[Nirvikalpa]

Not going to use the MCAT's as an actual form of practice, but ultimately still the first time I take it I will only have 1 semester of Physics behind me, so I think that ultimately will affect my score (at least on that part). Ultimately I know taking it multiple times will help me, as it did with the SAT.

As for applications, I too was planning on applying to more than the normal number - around 10 schools, so that I could practice the interview sessions, and save the best for last.

Also, I've been to the career development center and I am going to be having mock med school interviews.

As far as your A&P grades, if asked, you'll have to come up with a more productive way of talking about your performance instead of saying that the professor & you had "disagreements". That's a major red flag that tells a potential med school that maybe you'll be more trouble than you are worth. Why should they consider someone who gets into disagreements, when they could accept someone who admits that they were initially overwhelmed with the content, and learned some valuable and rewarding study habits as a result?

Obviously I am smart enough to not tell medical professionals in an interview what I posted here on the forums, or I wouldn't have made it through basic pre-medical studies.

I have a few professor's and medical professionals who have agreed to write me letters of recommendation, and over the summer I will (98% sure) be taking EMT courses, because that too has been a huge dream of mine.

I am volunteering in a hospital nearly all next semester - part of the reason the school is my area is trying to form new doctors is because in NE PA, maternity wards are scarce - so there goes my obstetrics hope. I'll probably find a reproductive endocrinologist to shadow - actually, I believe there is one the next town over.

I'm definitely going to take one (or two) MCAT study courses, and like I believe I said in my first post (or if not, I mean to state it), I already have around 6 study books I have been working on, and have been doing pretty well in.

I'm a lot less worried about the MCAT than I was for the SAT or ACT... I don't necessarily know if that is a good thing or a bad thing. I guess overall I am pretty confident in my abilities and my personality and my wanting to do this, which shows I am maturing, and hopefully that maturity shows during the interviews. I've really wanted to go into medicine all my life (starting with pre-veterinary), since about the age of 8. Ultimately when I have formed a family and they are in good standing and don't rely on 'mommy' anymore, I would like to be a Doctor Without Borders or help an organization like that, because missionary doctor work has also been a dream of mine.

Plus, I have told myself this time and time again: if I do not get accepted the first time around, there is just so much more to improve on and more to push myself for next time. I am not someone who easily gives up, and I realize the only person holding myself back from my dreams is me.

[tangent4ronpaul]

I would strongly advise you to consider PA school instead and have been told by MD's that they had wished they went that route. Fewer years, less debt and you get to do about the same stuff. Most can Rx drugs, depending on specialty you can do surgery, etc. The pre-recs are the same. There is a movement afoot to make the degrees allmost equivelent - ie: you wouldn't be working under a MD's licence, but your own. Have to wait and see where this goes.

DO become a fan of the "Made Ridiculously Simple" series....

http://www.medmaster.net/booksordering.html

Every medical school bookstore in the country carries these.

Obviously I am smart enough to not tell medical professionals in an interview what I posted here on the forums, or I wouldn't have made it through basic pre-medical studies.

They will know. You would be supprised what I've been asked about in Job interviews about posts I've made on public message forums.

I have a few professor's and medical professionals who have agreed to write me letters of recommendation, and over the summer I will (98% sure) be taking EMT courses, because that too has been a huge dream of mine.

The first time I went through EMT school it was the hardest class I had ever taken. They ran our asses off and bragged about their wash out rate. Every class, I had to learn new medical vocab. Thouseands of words as well as roots and suffixes. A&P was a 200+ page book, but we had to KNOW IT! ALL! Overall, I was assigned 14 texts - about 2 feet worth... There was not a page we didn't have to read and were tested on. They ran my ass off - going station to station - there was not an idle moment. HARD exercises. BZZZTTT - congradulations - you just stepped in a pool of water with a downed high power line - your partner now has 2 pt's to deal with! Bzzzt! - your pt has organophosphate exposure and now you are down too! It was exhausting! - physically and mentally. It also created very good medics!

There is an unfortunate aspect about being an EMT. If your cert lapses more than 2 years, you have to take the class all over again. Mine did and my second class was not a happy experience. I generally scorred no lower than a A- on any test, but was bored out of my mind. As was most of the class. It was a EMT class in a P program (awarding a BS) so the instructor didn't feel the need to teach med vocab or A&P because we would get it in other classes... despite that a third of the class wasn't in the P program. We spend endless hours filling out redundant paperwork and checking errors in grading from the scantron. The exercises were not challenging. We often found ourselves standing arround having done the basic thing/skill a few times w/ no twists... About 2/3ds of the way through this class our instructor told us that he had earned the nick name of "The angel of death" as he had more people die under his care than any other P or EMT in the state. This guy is in charge of all EMS training in the state... I got screwed out of my re-cert because I had a problem with him committing a felony by exposing a ton of personal info about me and every other person in that class - including SS numbers.... I should have sued and made a stink. It would have cut off all fed funds to the school (a uni). The class revolted and the instructor started throwing us ATLS and ACLS lectures.... More interesting. Overall, he has no business being in the medical field. He was/is incompetent.

What I'm trying to say here is ask arround - some programs ROCK! and some TOTALLY SUCK!

There are other programs - some domestic, some foreign... some will hand you an anestitized pig with a GSW to save... Oregon, TX, OH, NC, Belize, Canada, Africa... These are "heavier" classes... A lot of relief workers and military contractors take them. They last 3 days to a month. Don't expect much sleep. Some give CME credits, others do not. PM me if interested.

Ultimately when I have formed a family and they are in good standing and don't rely on 'mommy' anymore, I would like to be a Doctor Without Borders or help an organization like that, because missionary doctor work has also been a dream of mine.

Umm - look me up... I can point you in the right direction and maybe make some connects for you.

Look up our book: "Survival and Austere Medicine". Just google it - its all over.

I'm a mod here: http://medtech.syrene.net/forum/index.php

look in the off duty lounge for resources and opportunities.... Think you can see that without being registered - but nor sure. There are certainly parts of the board you won't be able to see without our blessings.... (and you will have to prove you are "in the biz" to get said blessing...)

On a physical level - the most extreem class I ever took was B.O.S.S (Boulder Outdoor Survival School). This is Larry Dean Olsens class for primitive survival. When I took it, it had been watered down. We were given 800 cals a day, in suplementary food after the first 3 days of "Impact" (no blankets, etc - nothing but the shirt on your back. No fire - we huddled like sheep for warmth - good class bonding experience.). Today, I understand the most extreem class actually gives you a canteen. The original class gave neithor water storage or ANY food! Recomended class, even with the "luxuries". Expect to walk up to 20 miles a day through multipal environments. And that is line of sight - not actual miles.... Up and down canyon walls, etc. In my alternative HS we had a "city trip" experience. Originally part of it was leaving the kids (13 - 15yo) out on the street for a night. Dumpsters, parks, under overpasses, whatever. Parents bitched. They toned it down. Those are the kind of experiences you need if you want to live through overseas relief work. Relief workers are killed regularly. TRAIN to SURVIVE!

Have some friends you trust drive in circles and take you about 20 miles away to a rural area - blindfolded.... Surender your clothes and get dumped. Figure out where you are and find your way home without being seen or at least pick up clothing on your way... Yes - it's extreem, but if you do it, you have a better chance of living through something worse. You have to think about how to stay hidden or fit in. Avoid being picked up / knowticed. Where you are and how to get home. Basic survival when naked, cold and hungry. It's a good thought process to go through. Best to have someone shadow you in case you get in trouble...

Parkour would be a good hobby to take up...

http://www.americanparkour.com/

You can do skin graphs with a modified old style razor and modified pizza cutter. A chest tube can be made from a bicycle inner tube. Learn the tricks of our trade... You can make IV fluids from scratch... and there are multiple methods of transfusion - including from healthy cadavers....

To quote a survival instructor: "It is better to be cold, wet, starving, living in a hole in the ground and miserable than well fed, warm, comfortable and DEAD!" - get the message?

-t

[LibForestPaul]

http://www.studentdoctor.net/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=31

What is this "Google" you speak of with forked tongue?

[tangent4ronpaul]

Nikki,

OC is generally the Med School burn out class - where they do the "weeding"... you made it past that, so you should do fine. There is a really good book that was recomended to me on the subject, but I don't recall the title right now. IIRC - it's about $70 new... but explains the topic in a way that "clicks" with you... Folding bonds makes my head HURT!

As to my suggestions for learning to survive - it's kind of like flight school - you spend 95% of your time learning how to react if things go REALLY WRONG! - most ppl never experience that, but it can save your life! You expressed a desire to work for MSF - they generally work in war zones...

They also put out some GREAT books!

Medicine in the third world is a lot different than what is practiced here. Look up TALC for a source of texts: http://www.talcuk.org/ if you order, pick expedited delivery - my last order at the cheap rate took well over 3 months and the box looked like the ships crew had used it as a soccer ball on the deck. Some of the books were damaged. It's worth the extra shipping. Other books have to be ordered directly - depending on originating organization.

Doing some relief work looks really good on an application. Think next summer and apply early. Personally, I'd dump your nutrician vol work. You allready have the brownie points and could add something much more impressive.

I knew one guy going to med school some years ago. But he went overseas. It cost him 1/4 the tuition of a US school, but having that diploma he was able to come back here and take the exam for a US MD licence.

take care,

-t