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"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
Your point of view is that Rand should quit trying to influence policy and propagate ideas of liberty because we can't pick the Supreme court nominee. For one thing the establishment took away the filabuster- Tell me genius how does Rand influence people people into thinking that we should change policy if they think he is just part of the fake news attacking the nominee, because that's all people would see if they saw Rand obstructing the nomination, they would think he is part of the establishment because the establishment was attacking the nominee.
My point of view is that liberty-minded people should be highlighting the importance of, for example, the 4A protections in the constitution...
Ron constantly found opportunities to speak to the people about these rights, and why they're important. As a consequence, he taught a helluva lot of people about the principles undergirding the constitution, myself included. Had he played ball, I and millions more - many of whom USED to regular this site - wouldn't have ever learned a THING about freedom.
I've been around for coming-on 30 years now. I was involved with both RP campaigns. I've been a delegate to quite a few county, CD, and state-level conventions.
I was also the key figure that caused Eric Cantor to lose his race, and also during that campaign directly caused him via political pressure to lift the leadership block on the Benghazi Commission.
Which means, if not for what I did, you would never have heard of Clinton's email server and she would be President of the United States today, and have appointed a far-left hardcore Communist to that seat instead of Kavanaugh.
Taking out a House majority leader was an unprecedented feat, by the way. It had never happened before and has not happened since, and is not likely to happen again in our lifetimes.
If you're going to attack someone for not having done enough for liberty, you could not have picked a worse target for that charge. I've made more of a real world difference in the fight for liberty than every other user of this site combined, and the contest isn't a close one.
I now invite you to list all your accomplishments in the service of the cause of liberty, or alternatively, to issue a sincere and well-owed apology for the improper resort to ignorant ad hominem.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Well I'm not as old as you, so you'll have to forgive me for only being around since '08, but in that time I've served as a country chair for C4L, canvased and door-to-door'd for Ron during the '12 run; I've hosted speaking events for my local community by minor "celebrities" in the liberty movement...
But the point wasn't to engage in a dick-measuring contest between you and I, obviously. It was to highlight the rather stark differences between the approach that Ron took - which was largely uncompromising, and resulted in a legitimate movement of engaged, mostly younger converts to the cause, versus the rather cynical and uninspiring approach of going-along-to-get-along, and hope for some scraps from the table that Rand seems to employ.
At the end of the day, I'm not here to run Rand down... it's just that it gets awfully frustrating reading post after post abusing the very methods that brought most of us here (if you go back to my first post in this thread, you'll see that's exactly what I was getting at).
Don't forget your roots, and don't forget all the good that the "absolutist" approach did. This place probably wouldn't even be a PLACE if it wasn't for it...
The best strategy would be a multi-pronged strategy with people like Ron and people like Rand. But like times 100.
Ron is better at being Ron, and Rand is better at being Rand. Ron shouldn't try to be Rand and Rand should wait to be more like Ron until it serves the movement better to do so.
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
There are many positive roles to be played in the quest for liberty, and they ALL need to be filled in order to make the project work. Ron filled one of those roles, Rand fills a different one. All us little people on the ground fill roles too.
They don't all have to be the same role, to contribute to the same goal.
1 Corinthians
Chapter 12
14 For the body is not one member, but many.
15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Exactly. And people like you and me being active, independent forces, each with his own agency, seeking out every opportunity to advance the cause.
Our independence of mind and character and action is our best feature. It would be insane not to put it to full use!
And in terms of method, we need to be incremental, as Ron noted. So our guys don't need to be pure - they just need to be better than the guys they replaced. And when we have the luxury of doing even better than the current guys, we can upgrade. Right now it's all we can do to stick in enough guys who are good enough to slow down Leviathan and put it into a turn.
There's a crapload of work to be done, and it ain't being done by the guys who are too pure to get their hands dirty. The Founders were a collection of flawed men who produced something greater than themselves, and so shall be we.
__________________________________________________ ________________
"A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst
__________________________________________________ ________________
"A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst
__________________________________________________ ________________
"A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst
Last edited by dannno; 10-13-2018 at 12:05 AM.
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
Do you REALLY believe there was nothing to do but bend to the nominee or risk some political exile? There's no such thing as diplomacy, I guess?
"I respect the office of the President and the authority of the chief executive to appoint Justices. Brett Kavanaugh is a mixed bag, in my view. He is a clear improvement over Anthony Kennedy, at least in terms of the rulings we have before us. However it is my belief, and my duty in my role as a Senator to advise in this process, that there are better choices for this all important role. If the president deems judge Kavanaugh to be the best choice that he can make, then so be it... but the cause of liberty is served more nobly by a nominee such as Mike Lee, or X..."
Nothing so much as that, conjured up by me at 5:30 on a Saturday morning? Something that could have signaled to the people that Rand is a true advocate, even though he must play this game? No? Just drop immediately to thine knees before Trump and Kavanaugh, grasp firmly in-hand and go to work, huh?
We have different ideas about what serves liberty in the long run.
Again, shame what's come of this place.
“…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned
BTC: 1AFbCLYU3G1dkbsSJnk3spWeEwpqYVC2Pq
I said policy not foreign policy, you are a single issue guy?. Rand may have a little influence on foreign policy, not nearly enough for sure. But he directly convinced the president to act on healthcare. That's influence however you look at it. Some of the Trump fans here might have more examples, but this one was obvious.
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...lth-care-order
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