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Thread: If anyone feels like debating...

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    Lawyers should not lie for their clients.
    Except she didn't lie for her client. She pointed out to the prosecution that they didn't have the evidence to prove their case, which they didn't, and then she pushed for a plea bargain deal which they accepted. Her client didn't "get off." He admitted guilt to a lesser charge.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by John F Kennedy III View Post
    I used to actually have some respect for jmdrake. It's odd witnessing just how different some members are after returning from my essentially 3 year absence.
    I haven't changed one iota. I did and still do believe in due process of law. You should too if you actually respect the U.S. constitution which calls says that anyone convicted of a crime has a right to an attorney. You are attacking Hillary for actually doing her job right (for once). Don't get side tracked by AZJoe's legal babble that he apparently knows nothing about. If he tried to bring a lawyer up on ethics violation charges for laughing a couple of times in an interview about how incompetent the prosecution was in a case he would be laughed out of court.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Except she didn't lie for her client. She pointed out to the prosecution that they didn't have the evidence to prove their case, which they didn't, and then she pushed for a plea bargain deal which they accepted. Her client didn't "get off." He admitted guilt to a lesser charge.
    I think most people would consider 2 months in jail (which was the time he spent in country jail) tantamount to getting off especially for raping a child. I know the job of lawyers can be dirty and she had an obligation to get the best deal for her client but she helped her client get away with child rape.
    Last edited by juleswin; 10-13-2016 at 05:15 PM.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I think most people would consider 2 months in jail and time spend tantamount to getting off especially for raping a child. I know the job of lawyers can be dirty and she had an obligation to get the best deal for her client but she helped her client get away with child rape.
    And I know of cases of people in prison for child rape who clearly didn't do it. In at least one case the child rapist had to admit on the stand that she was lying. Justice is supposed to be based on the evidence, not the level of emotion surrounding the case. If you happen to be one of those who didn't do it but you cop a plea because it looks like you're going to go down anyway and so know your on the sex abuse registry for the rest of your life did you get away with child rape? For better or for worse we have an adversarial system. Yes sometimes people do things that are unethical, but in the video presented there was nothing unethical. I've heard people claim she laughed about putting the girl on the stand and brow beating her and calling her a liar and all sorts of other nonsense that isn't actually on the tape. Instead we hear how a prosecutor and a crime lab botched collecting evidence from her clients underwear. Further more AZJoe tried to dishonestly turn this around from Hillary was unethical to the rape victim to somehow Hillary was unethical to her client that you say got off? How so? Seriously? He client copping a plea was an admission of guilt to something. So Hillary hasn't now divulged anything people who knew about the case didn't already know. Her client admitted to guilt about something in regards to inappropriate sexual behavior to a child and he will have to deal with the consequences of that for the rest of his life. Everytime he applies for a job or tries to get an apartment or even volunteer for something this will come up. Get off? There is no way in hell I'd want to live the rest of my life like that. Hell, I'd probably end it.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    You tell em that she did her job the same way a gas chamber killer did their job in executing prisoners. Or how a drone pilot did their job raising brown people attending a wedding. And make sure you emphasize the brown people cos they like to fancy themselves as people opposed to racism. Talking about grabbing a woman by her pussy is deplorable but getting a child molester off going to prison by lying and badgering a child victim on the stand when you know she was assaulted is devilish.
    Except so far I haven't seen the evidence that she got "a child molester off going to prison by lying and badgering a child victim on the stand." The evidence from the video that I posted is she got the prosecution to cop a plea because the prosecution and/or crime lab botched the physical evidence. It sounds like there wasn't even a trial.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I think most people would consider 2 months in jail (which was the time he spent in country jail) tantamount to getting off especially for raping a child. I know the job of lawyers can be dirty and she had an obligation to get the best deal for her client but she helped her client get away with child rape.
    Like in OJ's case...BLAME THE PROSECUTION. The state's case must be bullet proof. If it ain't, it's not the defense attorney's fault.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Like in OJ's case...BLAME THE PROSECUTION. The state's case must be bullet proof. If it ain't, it's not the defense attorney's fault.
    Exactly! Good grief some people are ready to throw away the constitution and magna carta just because they hate Hillary Clinton! Seriously if you don't go along with their bat guano crazy idea that this particular accused person shouldn't have had a vigorous defense then you are a "leftist" or "Hillary defender." Seriously it's this kind of lunacy that Ron Paul stands against!
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    And I know of cases of people in prison for child rape who clearly didn't do it. In at least one case the child rapist had to admit on the stand that she was lying. Justice is supposed to be based on the evidence, not the level of emotion surrounding the case. If you happen to be one of those who didn't do it but you cop a plea because it looks like you're going to go down anyway and so know your on the sex abuse registry for the rest of your life did you get away with child rape? For better or for worse we have an adversarial system. Yes sometimes people do things that are unethical, but in the video presented there was nothing unethical. I've heard people claim she laughed about putting the girl on the stand and brow beating her and calling her a liar and all sorts of other nonsense that isn't actually on the tape. Instead we hear how a prosecutor and a crime lab botched collecting evidence from her clients underwear. Further more AZJoe tried to dishonestly turn this around from Hillary was unethical to the rape victim to somehow Hillary was unethical to her client that you say got off? How so? Seriously? He client copping a plea was an admission of guilt to something. So Hillary hasn't now divulged anything people who knew about the case didn't already know. Her client admitted to guilt about something in regards to inappropriate sexual behavior to a child and he will have to deal with the consequences of that for the rest of his life. Everytime he applies for a job or tries to get an apartment or even volunteer for something this will come up. Get off? There is no way in hell I'd want to live the rest of my life like that. Hell, I'd probably end it.
    The point I am trying to make is that if he was indeed guilty of raping the 12 yr old girl, then 2 months in country jail plus sex offender registry(if it was the law att that point) is getting off. That is all I am trying to say and from the tapes, it seems like she knew that he raped her.


    Good read up on the case
    Newly discovered audio recordings of Hillary Clinton from the early 1980s include the former first lady’s frank and detailed assessment of the most significant criminal case of her legal career: defending a man accused of raping a 12-year-old girl.

    In 1975, the same year she married Bill, Hillary Clinton agreed to serve as the court-appointed attorney for Thomas Alfred Taylor, a 41-year-old accused of raping the child after luring her into a car.

    The recordings, which date from 1983-1987 and have never before been reported, include Clinton’s suggestion that she knew Taylor was guilty at the time. She says she used a legal technicality to plead her client, who faced 30 years to life in prison, down to a lesser charge. The recording and transcript, along with court documents pertaining to the case, are embedded below.

    The full story of the Taylor defense calls into question Clinton’s narrative of her early years as a devoted women and children’s advocate in Arkansas—a narrative the 2016 presidential frontrunner continues to promote on her current book tour.

    Her comments on the rape trial are part of more than five hours of unpublished interviews conducted by Arkansas reporter Roy Reed with then-Arkansas Gov. Bill Clinton and his wife in the mid-1980s.

    The interviews, archived at the University of Arkansas in Fayetteville, were intended for an Esquire magazine profile that was never published, and offer a rare personal glimpse of the couple during a pivotal moment in their political careers.

    But Hillary Clinton’s most revealing comments—and those most likely to inflame critics—concern the decades-old rape case.

    ‘The Prosecutor Had Evidence’
    Hillary Rodham ClintonThe LIFE Picture Collection via Getty Images
    Twenty-seven-year-old Hillary Rodham had just moved to Fayetteville, and was running the University of Arkansas’ newly-formed legal aid clinic, when she received a call from prosecutor Mahlon Gibson.

    “The prosecutor called me a few years ago, he said he had a guy who had been accused of rape, and the guy wanted a woman lawyer,” said Clinton in the interview. “Would I do it as a favor for him?”

    The case was not easy. In the early hours of May 10, 1975, the Springdale, Arkansas police department received a call from a nearby hospital. It was treating a 12-year-old girl who said she had been raped.

    The suspect was identified as Thomas Alfred Taylor, a 41-year-old factory worker and friend of the girl’s family.

    And though the former first lady mentioned the ethical difficulties of the case in Living History, her written account some three decades later is short on details and has a far different tone than the tapes.

    “It was a fascinating case, it was a very interesting case,” Clinton says in the recording. “This guy was accused of raping a 12-year-old. Course he claimed that he didn’t, and all this stuff” (LISTEN HERE).

    Describing the events almost a decade after they had occurred, Clinton’s struck a casual and complacent attitude toward her client and the trial for rape of a minor.

    “I had him take a polygraph, which he passed – which forever destroyed my faith in polygraphs,” she added with a laugh.

    Clinton can also be heard laughing at several points when discussing the crime lab’s accidental destruction of DNA evidence that tied Taylor to the crime.

    From a legal ethics perspective, once she agreed to take the case, Clinton was required to defend her client to the fullest even if she did believe he was guilty.

    “We’re hired guns,” Ronald D. Rotunda, a professor of legal ethics at Chapman University, told the Washington Free Beacon. “We don’t have to believe the client is innocent…our job is to represent the client in the best way we can within the bounds of the law.”

    However, Rotunda said, for a lawyer to disclose the results of a client’s polygraph and guilt is a potential violation of attorney-client privilege.

    “You can’t do that,” he said. “Unless the client says: ‘You’re free to tell people that you really think I’m a scumbag, and the only reason I got a lighter sentence is because you’re a really clever lawyer.’”

    Clinton was suspended from the Arkansas bar in March of 2002 for failing to keep up with continuing legal education requirements, according to Arkansas judicial records.

    Public records provide few details of what happened on the night in question. The Washington County Sherriff’s Office, which investigated the case after the Springdale Police Department handled the initial arrest, said it was unable to provide an incident report since many records from that time were not maintained and others were destroyed in a flood.

    A lengthy yet largely overlooked 2008 Newsday story focused on Clinton’s legal strategy of attacking the credibility of the 12-year-old victim.

    The girl had joined Taylor and two male acquaintances, including one 15-year-old boy she had a crush on, on a late-night trip to the bowling alley, according to Newsday.

    Taylor drove the group around in his truck, pouring the girl whisky and coke on the way.

    The group later drove to a “weedy ravine” near the highway where Taylor raped the 12-year-old.


    Around 4 a.m., the girl and her mother went to the hospital, where she was given medical tests and reported that she had been assaulted.

    Taylor was arrested on May 13, 1975. The court initially appointed public defender John Barry Baker to serve as his attorney. But Taylor insisted he wanted a female lawyer.

    The lawyer he would end up with: Hillary Rodham.

    According to court documents, the prosecution’s case was based on testimony from the 12-year-old girl and the two male witnesses as well as on a “pair of men’s undershorts taken from the defendant herein.”

    In a July 28, 1975, court affidavit, Clinton wrote that she had been informed the young girl was “emotionally unstable” and had a “tendency to seek out older men and engage in fantasizing.”

    “I have also been told by an expert in child psychology that children in early adolescence tend to exaggerate or romanticize sexual experiences and that adolescents in disorganized families, such as the complainant’s, are even more prone to exaggerate behavior,” Clinton said.

    Clinton said the child had “in the past made false accusations about persons, claiming they had attacked her body” and that the girl “exhibits an unusual stubbornness and temper when she does not get her way.”

    But the interview reveals that an error by the prosecution would render unnecessary these attacks on the credibility of a 12-year-old rape victim.
    http://freebeacon.com/politics/the-hillary-tapes/

    Was going to bold the good parts but I think its best if you read the whole thing. Don't look very good for her

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    The point I am trying to make is that if he was indeed guilty of raping the 12 yr old girl, then 2 months in country jail plus sex offender registry(if it was the law att that point) is getting off. That is all I am trying to say and from the tapes, it seems like she knew that he raped her.

    Yeah. Another crappy DA not having his ducks in a row .
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    The point I am trying to make is that if he was indeed guilty of raping the 12 yr old girl, then 2 months in country jail plus sex offender registry(if it was the law att that point) is getting off. That is all I am trying to say and from the tapes, it seems like she knew that he raped her.


    Good read up on the case


    http://freebeacon.com/politics/the-hillary-tapes/

    Was going to bold the good parts but I think its best if you read the whole thing. Don't look very good for her
    The video speaks for itself. And even your "write up" says nothing about Hillary badgering the girl on the stand. There was no reason for the girl to ever see that affidavit unless the prosecution decided to show it to her and in that case it's on them. The prosecution botched the evidence so the case never went to trial. And I know of cases where there have been girls who have serially falsely accused people of rape. Did that happen in this case? Dunno. You've got a write up of a bunch of hearsay. Did Taylor indeed do what Newsday said he did? Maybe he did. Maybe he didn't. But the prosecution botched the case. If they had hard eyewitness testimony they could have gotten a conviction even without any physical evidence. I've seen it happen even when the only witness was a victim who had to admit she perjured herself. There have been a lot of thread on this forum about men getting a raw deal in the justice system especially when it comes to rape. The last thing anybody should want is defense attorneys not doing their job because that might be used against them later in politics. You might think you want that but if you think about it long enough you will probably realize you don't. There are plenty of good reasons to go after Hillary. I, the person AZJoe dishonestly calls in his neg reps a "Hillary Defender", laid out real attacks against Hillary in my first post in this thread. There is no excuse for her publicly going after the woman that have accused Bill and then never apologizing when those women were proved right. None whatsoever. She was not hired as Bill's defense attorney. And how should a wife act when her husband has been accused of something like this? As the wife of the other Bill C accused of sexual assault and rape, the wife of Bill Cosby. She hasn't said jack about the allegations against her Bill. She's quietly stood beside him in support. She hasn't attacked him. But she hasn't attacked any of his accusers, even in the cases where they have been proven wrong. (One of Bill Cosby's accusers said he assaulter her at the Playboy mansion on a night when he wasn't even on the guest list.)
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    What? Drake is a good dude, you too. We might have differences...but you guys r good dudes. Oyarde or HB on the other hand...
    Oyarde is a great cultural leader here to provide wisdom for you .
    Do something Danke

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    What? Drake is a good dude, you too. We might have differences...but you guys r good dudes. Oyarde or HB on the other hand...
    He may still be a good dude, but he has grown childish and that causes him to come off as a cranky old man.

    HB survived a crucifixion. He's fine in my book.....he dies in his book though...

    Oyarde's a good squaw. I'd smoke peyote in a teepee with him any day.
    Last edited by John F Kennedy III; 10-13-2016 at 07:19 PM.
    I am the spoon.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post


    1) Her client is not at all disadvantaged because of double jeopardy. He cannot be tried for the same crime twice.
    2) You just lied. I didn't send you a "private message." I responded to your silly neg rep and silly neg rep comment which had not argument in it with one of my own. Neg reps require you to leave a comment. I will give you another neg rep once I have enough ammo.
    3) She did laugh at the justice system. She laughed at polygraphs which are indeed laughable.
    4) Nothing that she said in her interview was something that was not on the record. So you just lied again. There was nothing confidential disclosed.
    5) She didn't "get him off." She plea bargained it down because the prosecution and/or crime lab screwed up in handling the evidence.

    Hell, watch the video itself.
    1. "Disadvantage" is not limited solely to double jeopardy. What jmdrake has committed is a logical fallacy known as a scope shift. It also shows a lack of understanding of the ethical rules for lawyers. A lawyer is not permitted to use information gained from the representation to disadvantage a former client. The ethical duty not to disadvantage a former client is not limited to risking jeopardy. It is not even limited to criminal matters, or even just to legal matters. It applies to any matters including business opportunities, contracts, marketing, social reputation, personal reputation, business relationships and even personal and family relationships. Except for extremely unlikely scenarios, a lawyer shall not use information gained from representation to disadvantage a former client. That does include revealing confidences, or indicating to third party's that your client was guilty of the greater charge that as dropped, or that your client lied through a polygraph and passed.
    2. A private message in rep comment is not a a private message? If jmdrake says so. A silly distraction.
    3. Impugning the integrity of the judicial process by laughing about how she got him off with time served, Hillary violated the ethical ”duty to uphold the integrity and honor of the profession; to encourage respect for the law and for the courts; to act as a member of a learned profession; to conduct affairs so as to reflect credit on the legal profession; and to inspire the confidence, respect and trust of clients and the public.” Its not like she argued that the justice system worked and the prosecutor could not prove its case. Rather she laughed that how she was able to beat the system and acknowledge her client lied and was guilty of the charge - 1st degree rape.
    4. HRC blatantly indicated her client lied through the lie detector test and nevertheless passed. By doing so she unequivocally indicated her client was guilty of the charges - first degree rape. That is not something that was "on the record." To the contrary that is exactly what was disputed in the case.
    5. I never said she "got him off" even though HRC in the very interview states "she got him off with time served." That is a made up straw man trying to refute an argument not made. Nor would simply "getting someone off" in itself be an ethical violation. In fact it is the duty of the criminal defense lawyer to get the best possible result for their client - i.e "get them off."
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by John F Kennedy III View Post
    He may still be a good dude, but he has grown childish and that causes him to come off as a cranky old man.

    HB survived a crucifixion. He's fine in my book.....he dies in his book though...

    Oyarde's a good squaw. I'd smoke peyote in a teepee with him any day.
    Oyarde is a chick that identifies as a man?
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

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    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Oyarde is a chick that identifies as a man?
    Negative , only the more " civilized " become gender confused . We do not have those problems here .
    Do something Danke

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    But none of that's true.

    Due process is important.
    Indeed it is, but that doesn't mean crucifying a little girl on the stand. Children's Defense Fund, indeed.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Exactly! Good grief some people are ready to throw away the constitution and magna carta just because they hate Hillary Clinton! Seriously if you don't go along with their bat guano crazy idea that this particular accused person shouldn't have had a vigorous defense then you are a "leftist" or "Hillary defender." Seriously it's this kind of lunacy that Ron Paul stands against!
    I have found... that MOST folks do not even know what the "Constitution" is.
    (that includes RPF's)

    if you ask this simple question... they think that it is a "trick" question. and that you are trying to fool them.

    can you confirm this observation? how can one work on something, or even discuss it... if one does not know what it is?

    when I arrive on a jobsite. what I do. is to turn the machine on. I observe what it is doing. and what it is not doing.
    and work on the difference.

    and now you know everything that I do!
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    1. "Disadvantage" is not limited solely to double jeopardy. What jmdrake has committed is a logical fallacy known as a scope shift. It also shows a lack of understanding of the ethical rules for lawyers. A lawyer is not permitted to use information gained from the representation to disadvantage a former client.
    Except by the video I posted Hillary didn't do a damn thing you are claiming she did. You are the one committing the logical fallacy here. You are arguing, without a shred of evidence, that Hillary put forward information that was not in the public domain. The facts prove you wrong. Here are the facts.

    1) The prosecution had in its possession evidence that would have hung Hillary's client if they and the crime lab had processed it right.
    2) The prosecution flubbed screwed up the evidence worse than the prosecution in the OJ trial.
    3) Due to the lack of evidence the prosecution was willing to take a plea deal where Hillary's client made and admission of guilt!

    Seriously, what part of number 3 are you unable or unwilling to understand? If Hillary's client made a public admission of guilt than Hillary revealed nothing at all by saying this case ruined her belief in the polygraph. Her client said in open court "I'm guilty of X" where X is whatever lesser offense the prosecution allowed him to plead down to.


    The ethical duty not to disadvantage a former client is not limited to risking jeopardy. It is not even limited to criminal matters, or even just to legal matters. It applies to any matters including business opportunities, contracts, marketing, social reputation, personal reputation, business relationships and even personal and family relationships.
    Right. Because being on a sex offender registry for the rest of your life leaves you open to all sorts of opportunities. :rollyeyes: Seriously you did not think through your reply and you are making yourself look stupid. Do you realize that there are people who are homeless because of being on a sex abuse registry?

    Except for extremely unlikely scenarios, a lawyer shall not use information gained from representation to disadvantage a former client. That does include revealing confidences, or indicating to third party's that your client was guilty of the greater charge that as dropped, or that your client lied through a polygraph and passed.
    2. A private message in rep comment is not a a private message? If jmdrake says so. A silly distraction.
    They are two different things toots. And more importantly YOU STARTED THIS WITH YOUR ATTACK IN YOUR NEG REP TO ME! So quit trying to play like you are some sort of saint jerk. Here is the simple fact. I'm not "defending Hillary" despite your disgusting lying claim that I am. I'm defending the constitution and the rule of law. Those are two things that you don't understand. This whole thread is a "silly distraction."


    3. I[COLOR=#3E3E3E]mpugning the integrity of the judicial process by laughing about how she got him off with time served,
    You're just lying. She laughed at how stupid the prosecution was for expecting her to violate legal ethics by leaving the room for them to talk to her client alone.

    Hillary violated the ethical ”duty to uphold the integrity and honor of the profession; to encourage respect for the law and for the courts;
    Another lie. She did not disrespect the courts. She laughed at a stupid and unethical prosecutor that actually was trying to get her to disadvantage her client by leaving the room so the prosecutor could talk to her client in private.

    4. HRC blatantly indicated her client lied through the lie detector test and nevertheless passed. By doing so she unequivocally indicated her client was guilty of the charges - first degree rape. That is not something that was "on the record." To the contrary that is exactly what was disputed in the case.
    Another lie, Her client already indicated that he had lied on the polygraph by saying in open court that he was guilty of the lesser charge.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by John F Kennedy III View Post
    He may still be a good dude, but he has grown childish and that causes him to come off as a cranky old man.

    HB survived a crucifixion. He's fine in my book.....he dies in his book though...

    Oyarde's a good squaw. I'd smoke peyote in a teepee with him any day.
    I'm the same jmdrake that I've always been. Hell I've turned it down a notch. I always call out BS when I see it. And sorry to hurt your feelings, but the entire premise of this thread is BS. Seriously, your "ally" AZJoe can't make up his mind if Hillary violated ethical duties by helping her client or hurting him. Good grief. If you and he tried to actually bring ethics charges in any court against any lawyer based on this fact pattern you'd be laughed out of the courthouse and if you persisted you'd be put in jail for contempt. Hillary defendant someone accused of a heinous crime and ultimately got him a reduced sentence because the prosecution screwed up and she later laughed at the screw up and the apparent lack of ethics on behalf of the prosecutor (trying to get her to leave the room so the prosecutor could talk to her client alone) and that somehow makes her "evil"? No. Not hardly. Now Hillary Clinton attacking the women that accused Bill when she wasn't Bill's attorney? That was evil. Hillary joining forces will Al Qaeda to kill Qaddafi? That's evil. Hillary starting a war in Syria which has caused tens (hundreds?) of thousands of deaths? That's evil. Hillary pushing for war with Russia because Russia is battling ISIS? That is so freaking evil that it's beyond words. You want to win your fight with the libs? Ask them why Hillary supporting wars against countries that haven't attacked us is okay because Qaddafi and Assad are "bad guys" but somehow Bush was wrong for taking out Saddam who was certainly no better than those two and watch their heads explode. Or.....you can continue trying to explain why Hillary was the bad guy for doing exactly what the just - us system expects a criminal defense attorney to do in those circumstances. Your choice.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    I'm the same jmdrake that I've always been. Hell I've turned it down a notch. I always call out BS when I see it. And sorry to hurt your feelings, but the entire premise of this thread is BS. Seriously, your "ally" AZJoe can't make up his mind if Hillary violated ethical duties by helping her client or hurting him. Good grief. If you and he tried to actually bring ethics charges in any court against any lawyer based on this fact pattern you'd be laughed out of the courthouse and if you persisted you'd be put in jail for contempt. Hillary defendant someone accused of a heinous crime and ultimately got him a reduced sentence because the prosecution screwed up and she later laughed at the screw up and the apparent lack of ethics on behalf of the prosecutor (trying to get her to leave the room so the prosecutor could talk to her client alone) and that somehow makes her "evil"? No. Not hardly. Now Hillary Clinton attacking the women that accused Bill when she wasn't Bill's attorney? That was evil. Hillary joining forces will Al Qaeda to kill Qaddafi? That's evil. Hillary starting a war in Syria which has caused tens (hundreds?) of thousands of deaths? That's evil. Hillary pushing for war with Russia because Russia is battling ISIS? That is so freaking evil that it's beyond words. You want to win your fight with the libs? Ask them why Hillary supporting wars against countries that haven't attacked us is okay because Qaddafi and Assad are "bad guys" but somehow Bush was wrong for taking out Saddam who was certainly no better than those two and watch their heads explode. Or.....you can continue trying to explain why Hillary was the bad guy for doing exactly what the just - us system expects a criminal defense attorney to do in those circumstances. Your choice.
    That's cute.
    I am the spoon.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by John F Kennedy III View Post
    That's cute.
    Whatever. Ask yourself this. With everything that's at stake why hasn't Ron Paul lined up behind Donald Trump? It's because there are some things more important than short term victory. Sacrificing the constitution is not worth short term victory. And one of the bedrock principals of the constitution is the right to an attorney in a criminal matter. According to the video that you want to hang Hillary over, she actually, for once, stood up for the constitution by telling a prosecutor in essence to go to hell when he asked for a private audience with her client. And that prosecutor deserved to be laughed at. There are plenty of other ways to attack Hillary for things she actually did wrong but instead you decided to attack her for something that she actually did right. Not smart. Again sorry it hurt your feelings for me to point that out.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    1. "Disadvantage" is not limited solely to double jeopardy. What jmdrake has committed is a logical fallacy known as a scope shift. It also shows a lack of understanding of the ethical rules for lawyers. A lawyer is not permitted to use information gained from the representation to disadvantage a former client. The ethical duty not to disadvantage a former client is not limited to risking jeopardy. It is not even limited to criminal matters, or even just to legal matters. It applies to any matters including business opportunities, contracts, marketing, social reputation, personal reputation, business relationships and even personal and family relationships. Except for extremely unlikely scenarios, a lawyer shall not use information gained from representation to disadvantage a former client. That does include revealing confidences, or indicating to third party's that your client was guilty of the greater charge that as dropped, or that your client lied through a polygraph and passed.
    2. A private message in rep comment is not a a private message? If jmdrake says so. A silly distraction.
    3. Impugning the integrity of the judicial process by laughing about how she got him off with time served, Hillary violated the ethical ”duty to uphold the integrity and honor of the profession; to encourage respect for the law and for the courts; to act as a member of a learned profession; to conduct affairs so as to reflect credit on the legal profession; and to inspire the confidence, respect and trust of clients and the public.” Its not like she argued that the justice system worked and the prosecutor could not prove its case. Rather she laughed that how she was able to beat the system and acknowledge her client lied and was guilty of the charge - 1st degree rape.
    4. HRC blatantly indicated her client lied through the lie detector test and nevertheless passed. By doing so she unequivocally indicated her client was guilty of the charges - first degree rape. That is not something that was "on the record." To the contrary that is exactly what was disputed in the case.
    5. I never said she "got him off" even though HRC in the very interview states "she got him off with time served." That is a made up straw man trying to refute an argument not made. Nor would simply "getting someone off" in itself be an ethical violation. In fact it is the duty of the criminal defense lawyer to get the best possible result for their client - i.e "get them off."
    One more thing AZJoe. I see that you are now to cowardly to respond with anything but a neg rep. It's not a tantrum to call what you are saying lies when I went point by point and showed where you were lying. That said, the only think your hero Donald Trump has left is to call all of his accusers liars. And unlike me he doesn't have proof of the lies. So if that's not being rational and throwing an tantrum then why do you support Trump? You don't have an answer for that do you? Pathetic.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    Indeed it is, but that doesn't mean crucifying a little girl on the stand. Children's Defense Fund, indeed.
    Except there is no evidence that Hillary Clinton crucified a little girl on the stand. There's no evidence that the girl ever testified. Watch the video. The prosecution flubbed the evidence and thus they were willing to go with a plea deal. There was no trial.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  28. #54
    Trying to convince a liberal about the dangers of a large, always growing, always control seeking government, would be akin to trying to convince a North Korean citizen that their own government is an oppressive totalitarian force. You won't get anywhere due to the hundreds of lairs of propaganda crammed into their statist head.

    The only thing that I have found to be effective is to teach them some history and hope that can be a kernel of knowledge that they can build from later on. You won't crack the lairs of propaganda in one sitting. Talking about the foundation of "liberalism", how classic liberalism was actually about small government and more power to individuals, and also how it actually has nothing to do with modern day American liberalism will at least get their attention.

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Champuckett View Post
    Trying to convince a liberal about the dangers of a large, always growing, always control seeking government, would be akin to trying to convince a North Korean citizen that their own government is an oppressive totalitarian force. You won't get anywhere due to the hundreds of lairs of propaganda crammed into their statist head.

    The only thing that I have found to be effective is to teach them some history and hope that can be a kernel of knowledge that they can build from later on. You won't crack the lairs of propaganda in one sitting. Talking about the foundation of "liberalism", how classic liberalism was actually about small government and more power to individuals, and also how it actually has nothing to do with modern day American liberalism will at least get their attention.
    Yeah they actually unironically link to WaPo, Snopes, RationalWiki, MSM and government articles and stats all the time.
    I am the spoon.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Champuckett View Post
    Trying to convince a liberal about the dangers of a large, always growing, always control seeking government, would be akin to trying to convince a North Korean citizen that their own government is an oppressive totalitarian force. You won't get anywhere due to the hundreds of lairs of propaganda crammed into their statist head.

    The only thing that I have found to be effective is to teach them some history and hope that can be a kernel of knowledge that they can build from later on. You won't crack the lairs of propaganda in one sitting. Talking about the foundation of "liberalism", how classic liberalism was actually about small government and more power to individuals, and also how it actually has nothing to do with modern day American liberalism will at least get their attention.
    Absolutely- Liberal used to be a beautiful word that has been stolen and destroyed.

    Also, for everyone else:

    @jmdrake is correct on this:

    Hillary defendant someone accused of a heinous crime and ultimately got him a reduced sentence because the prosecution screwed up and she later laughed at the screw up and the apparent lack of ethics on behalf of the prosecutor (trying to get her to leave the room so the prosecutor could talk to her client alone) and that somehow makes her "evil"?
    This was obvious to me a while ago, but after being called all sorts of names for pointing out Trump flaws, I had decided to keep my mouth shut. And let me repeat for the millionth time: I cannot stand Clinton.
    There is no spoon.



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Absolutely- Liberal used to be a beautiful word that has been stolen and destroyed.

    Also, for everyone else:

    @jmdrake is correct on this:



    This was obvious to me a while ago, but after being called all sorts of names for pointing out Trump flaws, I had decided to keep my mouth shut. And let me repeat for the millionth time: I cannot stand Clinton.
    True. Some people [mod edit] can't think straight because they are barking at whatever gnat that flies by. Let's say if Hillary Clinton defended OJ Simpson and then laughed at how stupid the prosecution was to try to get OJ to try on the gloves. So? Only a moron would think that was an ethics violation.
    Last edited by Brian4Liberty; 10-20-2016 at 03:45 PM. Reason: Personal attack.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  33. #58
    Hillary talking about her own client:

    "Of course he claimed he didn't. All this stuff. He took a lie detector test. I had him take a polygraph, which he passed. Which forever destroyed my faith in polygraphs [Hillary laughing]."

    "I mean sure we knew he did it [Hillary laughing] but it didn't matter."

    A sampling of the Ethical Rules Hillary violated:
    1. Ethical Rule 1.9 mandates that “A lawyer who has formerly represented a client in a matter .. shall not thereafter (1) use information relating to the representation to the disadvantage of the former client” - Hillary violated this by effectively admitting in the interview her client was guilty
    2. Hillary violated Ethical Rule 1.6, the duty of confidentiality, by acknowledging her client’s guilt, and that he had beaten the polygraph.
    3. By impugning the integrity of the judicial process by laughing about how she beat the system, Hillary violated the ethical ”duty to uphold the integrity and honor of the profession; to encourage respect for the law and for the courts; to act as a member of a learned profession; to conduct affairs so as to reflect credit on the legal profession; and to inspire the confidence, respect and trust of clients and the public.”

    The client plead to a lesser offense, not to the rape charges. Hillary publicly admitted her client's guilt on tape.

    Here is the view from Professor of Legal Ethics at Chapman University Ronald D. Rotunda, "
    We don’t have to believe the client is innocent…our job is to represent the client in the best way we can within the bounds of the law. However, for a lawyer to disclose the results of a client’s polygraph and guilt is a potential violation of attorney-client privilege. You can’t do that,” he said. “Unless the client says: ‘You’re free to tell people that you really think I’m a scumbag, and the only reason I got a lighter sentence is because you’re a really clever lawyer.’” http://freebeacon.com/politics/the-hillary-tapes/

    And here is the view from legal analyst and veteran criminal homicide attorney Paul Callan, "she appears to have outed Taylor as a liar and a rapist. By framing the story in this way, Clinton violated not only the attorney-client privilege but also her obligation to fully represent the interests of her client as required by the attorney's Code of Professional Responsibility. It is utterly improper for a defense attorney to reveal a client confidence in this way. " http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/01/opinio...llary-clinton/
    Last edited by AZJoe; 10-20-2016 at 07:07 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

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