Sikh man pulled off Greyhound bus and detained for 30hrs for being brown

[The Rebel Poet]

Oh, I have a "plan" now? Is that better than a way?

Since you are the one who is so very worried about the threat of terrorism, since it keeps you up at night, it seems like you are the one who needs a plan. To solve the huge, horrible problem. Why don't you put your noggin to work on this problem and let us know the solution. Thanks!

I'm not sure why you are getting angry, but I never brought up the topic of terrorism, you have been braying about it on this thread and specifically said that certain people should be profiled. I'm simply wondering how you think that should be done. If you have no answer, don't put it on me as if I came up with the idea.

[helmuth_hubener]

I'm not sure why you are getting angry,

I am not sure either, as I certainly don't feel angry!

but I never brought up the topic of terrorism

And yet, you are asking me to solve the issue of terrorism! I appreciate your confidence in my abilities and brilliance. But,

1. If you are truly so concerned about terrorism, you should be able to come up with and present some great ideas of your own.
2. If you are not concerned about terrorism, well, why bother solving a non-problem? And why bother me to "solve" this non-problem? Answer: ____________

you have been braying about it on this thread

What is "braying" and could you quote me where and explain to me how I am doing it? If sounds like a bad thing and I certainly wouldn't want to keep it up.

and specifically said that certain people should be profiled.

Oh no, I think you have gravely misread me. As a matter of fact I specifically said "no," not once but twice, no, let us not profile anyone. I even bolded it so you wouldn't miss it, but I guess you still did. Glad I could correct you on that.

[The Rebel Poet]

I am not sure either, as I certainly don't feel angry!

And yet, you are asking me to solve the issue of terrorism! I appreciate your confidence in my abilities and brilliance. But,

1. If you are truly so concerned about terrorism, you should be able to come up with and present some great ideas of your own.
2. If you are not concerned about terrorism, well, why bother solving a non-problem? And why bother me to "solve" this non-problem? Answer: ____________

What is "braying" and could you quote me where and explain to me how I am doing it? If sounds like a bad thing and I certainly wouldn't want to keep it up.

Oh no, I think you have gravely misread me. As a matter of fact I specifically said "no," not once but twice, no, let us not profile anyone. I even bolded it so you wouldn't miss it, but I guess you still did. Glad I could correct you on that.

To insure we Americans never offend anyone, particularly Muslim fanatics intent on killing us, airport screeners will not be allowed to profile people. They will continue random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids, quadruple amputees, airline pilots with proper identification, Secret Service agents who are members of the President's security detail, Ron Paul every single time he flies, 10-year-olds with juice boxes, 3-year-olds with, well, nothing, and Medal of Honor winning former Governors.

Let's pause a moment and take the following test.

In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by
a. Olga Korbet
b. Sitting Bull
c. Arnold Schwartzeneger
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


In 1979, the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by

a. Lost Norwegians
b. Elvis
c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by

a. John Dillinger
b. The King of Sweden
c. The Boy Scouts
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by

a. A pizza delivery boy
b. Pee Wee Herman
c. Geraldo Rivera making up for a slow news day
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.


In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered in his wheelchair and thrown overboard by

a. The Smurfs
b. Davy Jones
c. The Little Mermaid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.


In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a U.S. Navy diver was murdered by
a. Captain Kidd
b. Charles Lindberg
c. Mother Teresa
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by

a. Scooby Doo
b. The Tooth Fairy
c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid who had a few sticks of dynamite
left over from the train job
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by

a. Richard Simmons
b. Grandma Moses
c. Michael Jordan
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by

a. Mr. Rogers
b. AFOTEC action officers headed to a conf
c. The World Wrestling Federation to promote its next villain "Mustapha
the Merciless"
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


In 2001, four airliners were hijacked and destroyed and thousands of people were murdered by

a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd
b. The Supreme Court of Florida
c. Mr. Bean
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by

a. Bonny and Clyde
b. Captain Kangaroo
c. Billy Graham
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40



But no, oh no, let's not inconvenience anyone by profiling. Why, that would be racist! Better dead than racist. Right?

Please stop cluttering up the forums with your trollery. It is a waste of good space. If you don't like RPF except for trolling please just leave.

[Brian4Liberty]

Yeah, it did.

And that's not leftist bull$#@; it's the world that has been created for us so we can live in fear.

Standard talking point from the Rachel Maddow show and leftists. A red herring to distract from other issues. Cry "racism" and win any debate.

Perhaps it had more to do with suspicious behaviour and the foreign language. Maybe these guys were innocent, maybe they were doing it on purpose just to create a headline like this and play victim. Maybe there's a lawsuit in the works.

"Brown" is the reason? Right, because people on a bus in Texas are all lilly-white except for their rednecks. They ain't never seen no one with "brown" skin before.

[helmuth_hubener]

Please stop cluttering up the forums with your trollery. It is a waste of good space. If you don't like RPF except for trolling please just leave.

Come now, surely you do not need to be reduced to name-calling. It's beneath your dignity. Have I so thoroughly perplexed and destroyed your arguments that you have no other choice? No! I know this, because I have not been making arguments nor even attempting to destroy you. What I have been doing is making you think (trying to; you seem to be figuratively kicking and screaming to avoid it).

I like to think. I like to make other people think. If you like to think, you will enjoy my posts, you will not take offense at them. If you actually do sincerely believe I'm a "troll" and are not just name-calling, just do a search for my latest posts, browse through the last forty or something -- or any random forty from the past nine years -- and I'm sure this will make you realize I'm a great guy and a natural ally for you.

If you want to have an actual sincere dialogue, and actual discussion, not just come at me with "gotcha" uselessness, here is a great starting question:

1. Which do you agree with more:

a) Terrorism is a huge, serious, and growing threat to us all.
b) More people are killed by their bathtubs every year than by terrorists.

[pcosmar]

1. Which do you agree with more:

a) Terrorism is a huge, serious, and growing threat to us all.
b) More people are killed by their bathtubs every year than by terrorists.

WHO ARE THE "TERRORISTS"

and "b",, make it accidental causes and I'll take it.

[helmuth_hubener]

WHO ARE THE "TERRORISTS"

and "b",, make it accidental causes and I'll take it.

There we go! At least one man, Pete, knows how to answer a question! Maybe there is hope we can get a dialogue going!

[Ender]

Standard talking point from the Rachel Maddow show and leftists. A red herring to distract from other issues. Cry "racism" and win any debate.

Perhaps it had more to do with suspicious behaviour and the foreign language. Maybe these guys were innocent, maybe they were doing it on purpose just to create a headline like this and play victim. Maybe there's a lawsuit in the works.

"Brown" is the reason? Right, because people on a bus in Texas are all lilly-white except for their rednecks. They ain't never seen no one with "brown" skin before.

And all Texans wear turbans, right?

I am no leftist and Rachel who? I have just never understood the fear and hatred of people who are different. I also believe it's a big set up to have Americans split up and living in fear of each other- we concentrate and black/blue/red/white/green/pink lives matter instead of TPTB.

Makes us weak and very vulnerable.

[tod evans]

And all Texans wear turbans, right?

I am no leftist and Rachel who? I have just never understood the fear and hatred of people who are different. I also believe it's a big set up to have Americans split up and living in fear of each other- we concentrate and black/blue/red/white/green/pink lives matter instead of TPTB.

Makes us weak and very vulnerable.

I thought Texicans wore one of two forms of cowboy hats.....

[Brian4Liberty]

And all Texans wear turbans, right?

Well, that could be a factor, and it would be misguided, but it doesn't have anything to do with skin color.

I also believe it's a big set up to have Americans split up and living in fear of each other- we concentrate and black/blue/red/white/green/pink lives matter instead of TPTB.

Exactly my point. It's a distraction.

Racial divisiveness is counter-productive and damaging. Yet it is those who cry racism constantly that do the most to instigate, aggravate and multiply the problems. MSNBC, CNN and the Obama left in general have done everything to make race relations worse in the past ten years, and they always do it under the guise of "exposing" or "countering" racism. It's a problem they blow out of proportion to distract and push their agenda.

For example, CNN has a new series called "United Shades of America". Supposedly it's meant to ease tensions with "humor". It does nothing of the sort. It escalates and creates division where there might not have been any before. It is the problem, not the solution. And the people behind these shows know it. It's a means to a political agenda. Distract, shame, enrage, divide, conquer.

[pcosmar]

Makes us weak and very vulnerable.

If we are fighting each other TPTB are safe.

[Ender]

If we are fighting each other TPTB are safe.

Exactly.

[LibertyEagle]

And how are you going to identify said Muslim male extremists between the ages of 17 and 40? Ask them?

"Are you a terrorist?"
"No."
"Excellent! Welcome to America!"

One thought might be for the State Department to stop importing people from countries who have espoused hatred for our own. Of course, that would require logic and common sense.

[pcosmar]

people from countries who have espoused hatred for our own.

Countries espouse nothing.

[Henry Rogue]

nm

[LibertyEagle]

Countries espouse nothing.

I was referring to their governments, but fair enough. Countries who contain people who have espoused hatred for our own.

[tod evans]

I was referring to their governments, but fair enough. Countries who contain people who have espoused hatred for our own.

Pick a race color or religion and I'll bet I can throw a rock and hit somebody in this country who has "espoused hatred" toward them...

And that's out here in bum-$#@!..........

[pcosmar]

Of course, that would require logic and common sense.

try it.

Pakistan was/is an "ally". A nuclear power, and has been friendly with the US.

How exactly are Pakistani immigrants imported from a country that hates us..

oh,, and BTW

the whole effin' world hates the US because we are the preeminent a$$holes in the world.

and we earn that.

[LibertyEagle]

Pick a race color or religion and I'll bet I can throw a rock and hit somebody in this country who has "espoused hatred" toward them...

And that's out here in bum-$#@!..........

And they have that right if they are Americans. But, if foreigners do it, it's rather dumb as dirt to import them into the country, don't you think?

[LibertyEagle]

try it.

Pakistan was/is an "ally". A nuclear power, and has been friendly with the US.

How exactly are Pakistani immigrants imported from a country that hates us..

oh,, and BTW

the whole effin' world hates the US because we are the preeminent a$$holes in the world.

and we earn that.

May be. But, that doesn't change the fact that it's stupid as all hell to import people who hate our guts.

[pcosmar]

May be. But, that doesn't change the fact that it's stupid as all hell to import people who hate our guts.

Import..?

Most immigrants come on their own.. with some exceptions.
Operation Paperclip was one importation example. and I am sure both criminals and victims were imported behind Vietnam.

I look at track record.. I'll take the folks that get here on their own.

[tod evans]

And they have that right if they are Americans. But, if foreigners do it, it's rather dumb as dirt to import them into the country, don't you think?

I think it's dumb to import people period.

As far as I'm concerned any government agent complicit in people importation, and that includes facilitating importing people for businesses, should be subject to execution on the spot by any member of the public not affiliated with government.

This is another area government and her employees have overstepped their bounds.

[Mani]

Back to the Sikh man, he's from India, not a country that hates US. I've been to India a dozen times, and in general USA is considered a major ally. Most Indian loves American, and they all have some family in USA. Many go for summer vacation, work, or to visit family.



This story seems to me "Hey, that brown turban guy aint speaking english. If he aint speakin English, he must be speakin terrorist."



There was a time a story like this 99% of RPF's would be outraged that someone could be pulled off a bus, and detained and held for 30hours for not really doing anything. I'm not sure what happened to this forum.

[helmuth_hubener]

Mani, Wearing a Middle-Eastern costume and looking Middle-Eastern is, indeed, a pretty good heuristic identifying you as approximately 10,000 times more likely to be a terrorist than a person not fitting that description. To complain that it is not a perfect heuristic would be to be ignorant of the meaning and usefulness of the concept of a heuristic.

Speaking in a highly suspicious way with another Middle-Eastern man increases your heuristic match level as a likely terrorist by another 100 times or so.

So this man was, and this is again an approximation, one million times more likely to be a terrorist than the average level.

Now Mani, perhaps you do not think terrorism is any problem at all. I will go out on a limb and say that almost certainly you don't! Along with pcosmar, you think we should be worrying about bathtubs before terrorists. We should just forget about terrorism as wildly unlikely and just not a threat. OK! Fair enough! That's your point of view!

But, if we are going to try to combat terrorism, what happened on this bus is about as close to an effective method as we can get. These passengers successfully identified someone one million times above the average risk level and got the threat neutralized. They were not perfect. They couldn't tell a Muslim turban from a Sikh turban. No surprise: there is no difference! They're both turbans! But nothing is ever going to be perfect. There will always be false positives. A grassroots, passenger-driven approach like this is a million times better than a TSA-style approach where everyone is automatically assumed to be guilty and 100% of everyone is inconvenienced and it doesn't work at all. Your fellow American passengers may not be perfect, but perfect isn't an option. They made the right choice here. These passengers successfully identified someone one million times above the average risk level and got the threat neutralized. One million times higher-than-average risk is, to say the least, a reasonably high threshold for suspicion!

The only way to have "perfection," to avoid any false positives, is to not make any attempt to fight terrorism at all. I am sure that's your preferred approach (or lack of an approach), and I certainly understand and sympathize with it, but not many others share that view.

[Mani]

Mani, Wearing a Middle-Eastern costume and looking Middle-Eastern is, indeed, a pretty good heuristic identifying you as approximately 10,000 times more likely to be a terrorist than a person not fitting that description. To complain that it is not a perfect heuristic would be to be ignorant of the meaning and usefulness of the concept of a heuristic.

Speaking in a highly suspicious way with another Middle-Eastern man increases your heuristic match level as a likely terrorist by another 100 times or so.

So this man was, and this is again an approximation, one million times more likely to be a terrorist than the average level.

Now Mani, perhaps you do not think terrorism is any problem at all. I will go out on a limb and say that almost certainly you don't! Along with pcosmar, you think we should be worrying about bathtubs before terrorists. We should just forget about terrorism as wildly unlikely and just not a threat. OK! Fair enough! That's your point of view!

But, if we are going to try to combat terrorism, what happened on this bus is about as close to an effective method as we can get. These passengers successfully identified someone one million times above the average risk level and got the threat neutralized. They were not perfect. They couldn't tell a Muslim turban from a Sikh turban. No surprise: there is no difference! They're both turbans! But nothing is ever going to be perfect. There will always be false positives. A grassroots, passenger-driven approach like this is a million times better than a TSA-style approach where everyone is automatically assumed to be guilty and 100% of everyone is inconvenienced and it doesn't work at all. Your fellow American passengers may not be perfect, but perfect isn't an option. They made the right choice here. These passengers successfully identified someone one million times above the average risk level and got the threat neutralized. One million times higher-than-average risk is, to say the least, a reasonably high threshold for suspicion!

The only way to have "perfection," to avoid any false positives, is to not make any attempt to fight terrorism at all. I am sure that's your preferred approach (or lack of an approach), and I certainly understand and sympathize with it, but not many others share that view.

Indians are not middle eastern. How about people get a god damn education before calling every brown foreigner a likely terrorist.

Punjabi and Hindi NEITHER language sounds ANYTHING like Arabic.

If people want to fight terrorism how about they learn more about terrorists instead of accusing anyone that looks foreign.

I have a problem with people's ignorance. To claim people are fighting against terrorism is one thing, but to be $#@!ing ignorant and attacking everyone that looks foreign because they are TOO lazy or too ignorant to know any better is another. And ANY REAL PERSON INTERESTED IN FIGHTING TERRORISM if they honestly did 5 minutes of research would rule out a Sikh almost immediately. But idiot populace who see something/say something will grab sikhs and beat the $#@! out of them coz.....fighting terrorism.

So I'm sorry but if you were HONESTLY concerned about terrorism and wanted to do something about it you would educate yourself and realize the idiocy of the people on that bus.

[Danke]

Indians are not middle eastern. How about people get a god damn education before calling every brown foreigner a likely terrorist.

Punjabi and Hindi NEITHER language sounds ANYTHING like Arabic.

If people want to fight terrorism how about they learn more about terrorists instead of accusing anyone that looks foreign.

I have a problem with people's ignorance. To claim people are fighting against terrorism is one thing, but to be $#@!ing ignorant and attacking everyone that looks foreign because they are TOO lazy or too ignorant to know any better is another. And ANY REAL PERSON INTERESTED IN FIGHTING TERRORISM if they honestly did 5 minutes of research would rule out a Sikh almost immediately. But idiot populace who see something/say something will grab sikhs and beat the $#@! out of them coz.....fighting terrorism.

So I'm sorry but if you were HONESTLY concerned about terrorism and wanted to do something about it you would educate yourself and realize the idiocy of the people on that bus.

It is sorry that those passengers didn't know any better. But of course person travelling on a bus might just be ignorant. I think most shiks hate Muslims.

[LibertyEagle]

Import..?

Most immigrants come on their own.. with some exceptions.
Operation Paperclip was one importation example. and I am sure both criminals and victims were imported behind Vietnam.

It's what the State Department does.

I look at track record.. I'll take the folks that get here on their own.

Does this mean you are offering to put them up at your own property and sponsor them such that they do not suck a dime from the government teat. In addition to being held responsible for any damage they do to anyone else or their property? If the answer is no, you are not taking them; you are hoisting them on the rest of us.

[pcosmar]

you are hoisting them on the rest of us.

I'm doing neither.

I am living here,, for as long as I am.

I would suggest cutting off the free stuff.
Stop giving the government money. they will have none to give.


I could not get hired,, for years.
Not because of immigrants,, but because of Americans. Because of Authoritarians.

NO immigrant has ever "Beat" me out of a job. very few men could.
Those that can earn it.

[helmuth_hubener]

Punjabi and Hindi NEITHER language sounds ANYTHING like Arabic.

Oh, yeah, right:

https://translate.google.com/#pa/ar/...Allah%20ghalib

So different! But I'm so sure you'd be able to differentiate them 100% of the time with your big brain, Mani.

Indians are not middle eastern. How about people get a $%&#% $!(*&^@ education... ignorance... ignorant... TOO lazy... too ignorant... idiot populace... educate yourself... realize the idiocy of the people on that bus.

You are very right, Mani, that Indians are not Middle Eastern. Gold star. They are South Asians. As are Pakistanis (the other suspicious character involved).

You insist we "idiots" are in dire need of a new education regimen. Very interesting proposal! Along with Social Studies, Math, and English we can add Racial Awareness class. We can plaster the Racial Awareness classroom walls with the different races and ethnicities, all meticulously categorized and organized. Posters with faces, pointing out distinguishing features. The children will drill with flash cards. After going through this regimen, the children will be able to tell from a distance a black African from an Australian Aboriginal. The children will be able to spot a Jewish nose from a mile away. And telling South Asians from Arabs? Ha, our kids will be able to tell you from a mere glance not only that a man is Indian but which of their five or six castes he is from! Won't that be great?

See, I was confused. I thought from your neg-rep comment to me you were against profiling and in favor or more color-blindness. Wow, how wrong I was! It is the opposite! You are on a crusade against the supposedly "excessive" colorblindness of Americans, or as you call it: ignorance. You want to stamp out color-blindness and increase racial awareness. You want all those benighted Texans to stop using their mental capacity for things like knowing how to weld and knowing how to keep an oil well going, and instead focus on truly important things like knowing the differences between a Pakistani and an Indian, an Arab and a Turk, a Jew and a Gentile. Yep, that's the way we ought to raise our kids!

Welcome to Manitopia.

Then after your re-education at last we "ignorant" bus riders would be able to tell that it was only one of the two suspicious people who we should really be suspicious of. Because of course Indians would never be terrorists and Sikhs would never be terrorists. If only you had informed them in time of the correct and proper stereotypes to hold to. I'm so glad you cleared up your actual point of view. You aren't against racism at all, you just want it to be more finely-tuned, accurate, comprehensive racism. Fantastic.

[helmuth_hubener]

I would suggest cutting off the free stuff.
Stop giving the government money.

Unfortunately, that was ruled unconstitutional over 20 years ago. So, not really an option.