Overnight Clashes Follow Venezuelan Officers' Failed Attempt To Lead Anti-Maduro Coup

[devil21]

I don't know that you would but quite a few members of this site love Maduro and are ecstatic that Putin is intervening on his behalf.

No one has said they love Maduro so that's a bad strawman. Quote a single post that says anything of the sort. What you're reading is, in fact, replies from higher informed posters that have watched this exact playbook be run on Americans for at least the last almost 20 years, over and over. Some of us are tired of having our intelligence insulted over and over by the usual propagandists and still stick to non-interventionist principles. It has nothing to do with how great or terrible Maduro is. or opinions on Putin.

[RonZeplin]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?530824-Trump%92s-Venezuela-Fiasco

Trump’s Venezuela Fiasco

Written by Ron Paul
Monday January 28, 2019




Last week President Trump announced that the United States would no longer recognize Nicholas Maduro as president of Venezuela and would recognize the head of its national assembly, Jose Guaido, as president instead. US thus openly backs regime change. But what has long been a dream of the neocons may well turn out to be a nightmare for President Trump.

Why did Trump declare that the Venezuelan president was no longer the president? According to the State Department, the Administration was acting to help enforce the Venezuelan constitution. If only they were so eager to enforce our own Constitution!

It’s ironic that a president who has spent the first two years in office fighting charges that a foreign country meddled in the US elections would turn around and not only meddle in foreign elections but actually demand the right to name a foreign country’s president! How would we react if the Chinese and Russians decided that President Trump was not upholding the US Constitution and recognized Speaker Nancy Pelosi as US president instead?

Even those who would like to see a change of government in Venezuela should reject any notion that the change must be “helped” by the United States. According to press reports, Vice President Mike Pence was so involved in internal Venezuelan affairs that he actually urged Guaido to name himself president and promised US support. This is not only foolish, it is very dangerous. A Venezuelan civil war would result in mass death and even more economic misery!

Regime change has long been US policy for Venezuela. The US has been conducting economic warfare practically since Maduro’s predecessor, Hugo Chavez, was first elected in 1998. The goal of US sanctions and other economic measures against Venezuela (and other countries in Washington’s crosshairs) is to make life so miserable for average citizens that they rise up and overthrow their leaders. But of course once they do so they must replace those leaders with someone approved by Washington. Remember after the “Arab Spring” in Egypt when the people did rise up and overthrow their leader, but they then elected the “wrong” candidate. The army moved in and deposed the elected president and replaced him with a Washington-approved politician. Then-Secretary of State John Kerry called it “restoring democracy.”

It is tragically comical that President Trump has named convicted criminal Elliot Abrams as his point person to “restore democracy” in Venezuela. Abrams played a key role in the Iran-Contra affair and went on to be one of the chief architects of the disastrous US invasion of Iraq in 2003. His role in helping promote the horrible violence in Latin America in the 1980s should disqualify him from ever holding public office again.

Instead of this ham-fisted coup d’etat, a better policy for Venezuela these past 20 years would have been engagement and trade. If we truly believe in the superiority of a free market system we must also believe that we can only lead by example, not by forcing our system on others.

Just four months ago President Trump said at the UN: “I honor the right of every nation in this room to pursue its own customs, beliefs, and traditions. The United States will not tell you how to live or work or worship. We only ask that you honor our sovereignty in return.” Sadly it seems that these were merely empty words. We know from Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc. that this will not end well for President Trump. Or for the United States. We must leave Venezuela alone!

[Swordsmyth]

No one has said they love Maduro so that's a bad strawman. Quote a single post that says anything of the sort. What you're reading is, in fact, replies from higher informed posters that have watched this exact playbook be run on Americans for at least the last almost 20 years, over and over. Some of us are tired of having our intelligence insulted over and over by the usual propagandists and still stick to non-interventionist principles. It has nothing to do with how great or terrible Maduro is. or opinions on Putin.

Read the posts by UWDude and Juleswin in this very thread.

And then there is this:

I don't have any particular problem with Maduro.

I have been stridently noninterventionist about this whole thing but we absolutely have people here who are going so far as to defend socialism and Chavez/Maduro and other people who are being way to soft on Maduro/Putin.

We should have stayed out of WWII but that doesn't mean that either Hitler or Stalin were good guys or that we should have been cheering for them.

[devil21]

Read the posts by UWDude and Juleswin in this very thread.

And then there is this:



I have been stridently noninterventionist about this whole thing but we absolutely have people here who are going so far as to defend socialism and Chavez/Maduro and other people who are being way to soft on Maduro/Putin.

We should have stayed out of WWII but that doesn't mean that either Hitler or Stalin were good guys or that we should have been cheering for them.

Unless you've been to Venezuela recently and have personal knowledge of anything Maduro has done, you don't know anything. Some of us are smart enough to recognize that we don't and therefore don't make judgments about whether Maduro is a bad leader or tyrant or whatever label the media applies to him.

If I cared enough to make the point, I'd find a recently posted example where someone tweeted several days ago that they were having a great time in Paris studying fashion then a few days later tweeted that they were standing in line for 5 hours for bread because of Maduro. It's a lot of bull$#@!.

[Swordsmyth]

Unless you've been to Venezuela recently and have personal knowledge of anything Maduro has done, you don't know anything. Some of us are smart enough to recognize that we don't and therefore don't make judgments about whether Maduro is a bad leader or tyrant or whatever label the media applies to him.

If I cared enough to make the point, I'd find a recently posted example where someone tweeted several days ago that they were having a great time in Paris studying fashion then a few days later tweeted that they were standing in line for 5 hours for bread because of Maduro. It's a lot of bull$#@!.

On both sides.

That doesn't change the verifiable things he and the Venezuelan central bank have done.

He is a communist thug dictator and although WE should stay out of it THE PEOPLE OF VENEZUELA should overthrow him.

[devil21]

On both sides.

That doesn't change the verifiable things he and the Venezuelan central bank have done.

He is a communist thug dictator and although WE should stay out of it THE PEOPLE OF VENEZUELA should overthrow him.

Then you go right back to the same media supplied labels. Communist thug dictator. How do you know he's any of those things? How do YOU know? The answer is YOU don't. You only "know" what you're told he is, therefore you don't actually know anything. A wise man knows what he knows but more importantly he knows what he doesn't know...

You don't think it the least bit questionable when the boogeymen are always the ones with lots of oil that BP, Exxonmobil, Chevron, etc doesn't control and doesn't have a Rothschild owned central bank run by some Ivy League graduate?

[Swordsmyth]

Then you go right back to the same media supplied labels. Communist thug dictator. How do you know he's any of those things? How do YOU know? The answer is YOU don't. You only "know" what you're told he is, therefore you don't actually know anything. A wise man knows what he knows but more importantly he knows what he doesn't know...

You don't think it the least bit questionable when the boogeymen are always the ones with lots of oil that BP, Exxonmobil, Chevron, etc doesn't control and doesn't have a Rothschild owned central bank run by some Ivy League graduate?

HIS COMMUNISM AND THUGGISH DICTATORIAL NATURE ARE WELL DOCUMENTED.

[devil21]

HIS COMMUNISM AND THUGGISH DICTATORIAL NATURE ARE WELL DOCUMENTED.

I'm starting to think that your whole zealous anti-socialist/communist and anti-hispanic schtick was intentionally to lay a foundation for these recent Venezuelan events. I can only conclude that since you don't appear interested in actually learning anything.

[juleswin]

I'm starting to think that your whole zealous anti-socialist/communist and anti-hispanic schtick was intentionally to lay a foundation for these recent Venezuelan events. I can only conclude that since you don't appear interested in actually learning anything.

The man is a neocon infiltrator that or he is incredibly and irreparably daft.

[Swordsmyth]

I'm starting to think that your whole zealous anti-socialist/communist and anti-hispanic schtick was intentionally to lay a foundation for these recent Venezuelan events. I can only conclude that since you don't appear interested in actually learning anything.

I am starting to conclude that it is impossible to have a rational conversation with people who deny well established facts.


Read and learn:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/l...-a7740616.html

That is only a small incomplete account of the Thuggish communism of Chavez/Maduro.

[Swordsmyth]

The man is a neocon infiltrator that or he is incredibly and irreparably daft.

You are a communist and like all communists you are willingly blind to reality and deny well established facts any time you feel like it.

[devil21]

I am starting to conclude that it is impossible to have a rational conversation with people who deny well established facts.


Read and learn:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/l...-a7740616.html

That is only a small incomplete account of the Thuggish communism of Chavez/Maduro.

LOL and then he quotes a BRITISH mainstream media outlet!!!! ROFL

Stop it you're killin me!


You do understand that these regime change jobs are about transferring control of money issuance and natural resources to the City of London, right? The CIA was created (originally the OSS) at the behest of the City of London after Iran took back control of its oil from BP. Why do you think the Five Eyes are all British crown colonies (yes, including the US)? The NSA and CIA are nothing more than domestic arms of British intel services like GCHQ and MI6. So, can you see why quoting a British MSM outlet about anything related to Venezuela is foolish?

[juleswin]

You are a communist and like all communists you are willingly blind to reality and deny well established facts any time you feel like it.

Well, I am not the one who voted for the socialist in the WH. But one thing you have to give the communists is they, they hurt their own people while the neocons hurt owner people.

Good job with your infitrating, you should get a fat raise for the agenda you push on this forum.

[Swordsmyth]

LOL and then he quotes a BRITISH mainstream media outlet!!!! ROFL

Stop it you're killin me!


You do understand that these regime change jobs are about transferring control of money issuance and natural resources to the City of London, right? The CIA was created (originally the OSS) at the behest of the City of London after Iran took back control of its oil from BP. Why do you think the Five Eyes are all British crown colonies (yes, including the US)? The NSA and CIA are nothing more than domestic arms of British intel services like GCHQ and MI6. So, can you see why quoting a British MSM outlet about anything related to Venezuela is foolish?

Not everything in the MSM is a lie, they have to tell enough truth to keep people listening to them.

The facts about Chavez and Maduro are well established, will you next tell me that Stalin wasn't a communist because the Churchill and Truman called him one?

You have taken cynicism to the level of insanity or you are a communist.

[Swordsmyth]

Well, I am not the one who voted for the socialist in the WH. But one thing you have to give the communists is they, they hurt their own people while the neocons hurt owner people.

Good job with your infitrating, you should get a fat raise for the agenda you push on this forum.

I didn't vote for Trump and he is nowhere near the communist that Maduro is.

I advocate against intervention but you are promoting communism, so who is the infiltrator?

[dannno]

HIS COMMUNISM AND THUGGISH DICTATORIAL NATURE ARE WELL DOCUMENTED.

[Swordsmyth]

Almost.

People who look me in the face and tell me it is midnight at high noon drive me just a little nuts.

The sudden love for Maduro and Chavez around here would make Dr. Ron cry.

[RonZeplin]

"5,000 Troops To Colombia" To Quell Venezuela Crisis? John Bolton Flashes Notepad Contents At Briefing

During a Monday White House press briefing national security adviser John Bolton was photographed carrying a notepad — presumably as he was fresh out of a national security meeting — and one of the things which appears to be handwritten on the pad is "5,000 troops to Colombia".

The contents of the notepad were spotted almost immediately by multiple journalists online after an NBC news release featuring the AP photo was published. More precisely the full contents appear to read:

"Afghanistan -> Welcome the Talks. 5,000 troops to Colombia."



Bolton during the White House presser revealed that President Trump is "leaving open the possibility of a U.S. military intervention to protect opposition leader Juan Guaidó, members of the nation's assembly and American diplomatic personnel," according to NBC.

"The president has made it clear that all options are on the table," Bolton told reporters while holding the yellow notepad. "We also today call on the Venezuelan military and security forces to accept the peaceful, democratic and constitutional transfer of power," Bolton said.

But could, as the notepad suggests, this involve plans to send 5,000 American troops to neighboring Columbia, a close US ally in Latin America?

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...tepad-contents

[devil21]

Not everything in the MSM is a lie, they have to tell enough truth to keep people listening to them.

Says who? Let me refer you to Bill Casey's quote about "when the CIA's mission is complete."

The facts about Chavez and Maduro are well established, will you next tell me that Stalin wasn't a communist because the Churchill and Truman called him one?

You have taken cynicism to the level of insanity or you are a communist.

Ah yes, I must take my meds soon. Only crazy people question everything the provably controlled and provably dishonest media reports.

(And for the record, you sound like the insane one here, seeing commies behind every shadow and under every bed like it's 1955 again. Yet, ironically, you refuse to acknowledge that Trump's entire foreign policy team are closet communists and won't even watch a video that clearly explains it. That level of cognitive dissonance is astounding.)

The sudden love for Maduro and Chavez around here would make Dr. Ron cry.

The heavy skepticism of all things 'media' around here would make Dr. Paul (Dr. Ron? LOL who says that?) smile broadly.

[Swordsmyth]

Says who? Let me refer you to Bill Casey's quote about "when the CIA's mission is complete."

So you are claiming their mission is complete?
LOL

Ah yes, I must take my meds soon. Only crazy people question everything the provably controlled and provably dishonest media reports.

There are many other sources of the information, that just happened to be one that somebody else posted that I could quickly refer to, there is absolutely no doubt that Chavez was and Madro is a communist thug who destroyed Venezuela.

(And for the record, you sound like the insane one here, seeing commies behind every shadow and under every bed like it's 1955 again. Yet, ironically, you refuse to acknowledge that Trump's entire foreign policy team are closet communists and won't even watch a video that clearly explains it. That level of cognitive dissonance is astounding.)

There are commies everywhere and I have never denied that Neoconservatives and Trotskyites.

It is becoming obvious that you are a closet communist.

[devil21]

So you are claiming their mission is complete?
LOL

Could be.

There are many other sources of the information, that just happened to be one that somebody else posted that I could quickly refer to, there is absolutely no doubt that Chavez was and Madro is a communist thug who destroyed Venezuela.

Right. Sanctions, CIA intervention and assassinations have nothing to do with it. It's all ONE DUDE in an office responsible for an entire country's ills.

There are commies everywhere and I have never denied that Neoconservatives and Trotskyites.

So you admit then that you are taking many of your talking points from communists and still sticking to them? You are one confused person.

It is becoming obvious that you are a closet communist.

Label me whatever you like. Am I supposed to cower at your stupid labels? Your incessant need to label everyone and everything you disagree with is, by far, more akin to a Democrat modus operandi than any of us that challenge your propaganda spreading operation.

[goldenequity]

Russian Market‏
U.S. to allow Venezuela's opposition to receive and control certain property in government accounts held by federal reserve bank of New York or any other U.S. insured banks - State department
(UK just stole Venezuelan gold and US is stealing Venezuelan money. Never ever give your money to the Rothschild banksters...)


US ‘set an open course for toppling power in Venezuela’ – Lavrov
http://dlvr.it/QxkVKm

Venezuelan Pro-Opposition Field News Outlet Appears To Be Run Toronto, By Bellingcat Member
https://southfront.org/venezuelan-pr...ingcat-member/

Enrico Ivanov ☦️‏ @Russ_Warrior
Another Neocon Globalist Warmonger Worms His Way Into Trump Administration.
If there is anyone who could mess things up in Venezuela, it is Abrams who quite literally represents everything that Trump was elected to destroy.
https://theschpiel.com/world/another...dministration/


NBC News‏@NBCNews
BREAKING: US officials announce that the US has hit Venezuela’s state-owned oil company with sanctions, diverting "any purchases of Venezuelan oil by US entities" into blocked accounts effective immediately.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/whi...ezuela-n963681

China opposes sanctions against Venezuela, says US will be responsible for consequences
https://www.rt.com/news/450019-china...-venezuela-us/


A Boeing 777 which belongs to Russia's Nordwind Airlines on Jan 28 departed from Moscow's Vnukovo airport to Caracas, Venezuela (flight N49801) with no passengers on board
Read more on UNIAN: https://www.unian.info/world/1042511...venezuela.html

https://twitter.com/DerbyChrisW/stat...89764145922048


Bird On A Mission @Suegrant54321
5 hod.
Trump Regime Launches Coup in #Venezuela: Here's What You Need to Know

https://youtu.be/UpZRPOpnz3g

via James Corbett for the Corbett Report, with guest @danielLMcAdams of the @RPlibertyReport
@EvaKBartlett @VanessaBeeley @Banjomarla @ShinnerPreside1




teleSUR English
BREAKING | Venezuela asks supreme court to ban Juan Guaido from leaving the country whilst investigation into him is ongoing.
https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/...0129-0012.html

AFP news agency
@AFP
#BREAKING Supreme Court bars Guaido from leaving Venezuela, freezes accounts

https://twitter.com/themiamivoice/st...54511396294656


Dan Cohen
From the Venezuelan side of the border with Colombia, Defense Minister Vladimir Padrino declares his forces are prepared for an invasion:
“We are seeing the same formula they applied to Libya... They will try to penetrate across the border... So we are waiting for them here.”