Aleppo is Russia's Red Line

[jllundqu]

Judging by the events unfolding in Syria, it has become pretty clear that the city of Aleppo is Russia's 'Red Line.' Putin and Assad have agreed they will NOT let the city fall to the US Backed rebels, ISIS, or anyone else. The US is trying like hell, even killing 80 or so Syrian soldiers in a nearby city, threatening and sabre rattling... but Putin and Assad are having none of it.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-0...litary-options

In the most dramatic diplomatic escalation involving the Syrian conflict in the past years, yesterday John Kerry issued an ultimatum to Russia, in which he warned his colleague Lavrov to stop bombing Aleppo or else the US would suspend all cooperation and diplomacy with Russia.

24 hours later, this appears to be precisely what is about to take place, leading to an even greater geopolitical shock in Syria. According to Retuers, the United States is expected to tell Russia on Thursday it is suspending their diplomatic engagement on Syria following the Russian-backed Syrian government's intense attacks on Aleppo, U.S. officials said on condition of anonymity.

"We are on the verge of suspending the discussion because it is irrational in the context of the kind of bombing taking place to be sitting there trying to take things seriously," Kerry told an audience in Washington.

"It is one of those moments where we are going to have to pursue other alternatives," he added.

Why now and what happens next? According to US officials, the Obama administration is now considering tougher responses to the Russian-backed Syrian government assault on Aleppo, including military options. According to Reuters, the new discussions were being held at "staff level," and have yet to produce any recommendations to President Barack Obama, who has resisted ordering military action against Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in the country's multi-sided civil war.

"The president has asked all of the agencies to put forward options, some familiar, some new, that we are very actively reviewing," Blinken said. "When we are able to work through these in the days ahead we'll have an opportunity to come back and talk about them in detail."

However, now that diplomacy with Russia is set to end, this will give the greenlight for Obama to send in US troops in Syria, with Putin certain to respond appropriately, in what will be the biggest military escalation in the Syrian proxy war in its five and a half year history.

[specsaregood]

and we are going to war against Russia and Syria, why? I must have missed where they did us any harm.

[jllundqu]

and we are going to war against Russia and Syria, why? I must have missed where they did us any harm.

Why do we fight any of the stupid battles in the sandbox?

[specsaregood]

Why do we fight any of the stupid battles in the sandbox?

fair enough. I guess this also partly explains why they are suddenly so worried/fear mongering about the Russians influencing our election process.

[jllundqu]

fair enough. I guess this also partly explains why they are suddenly so worried/fear mongering about the Russians influencing our election process.

Putin already stated in his various speeches that Russia can't compete with the US in terms of bullet to bullet/missile to missile capability, so he is forced to respond 'asymmetrically' with cyber to maintain the balance that has prevented war for 50 years...

[AZJoe]

Washington Pushing for War on Russia
from Stephen Lendman blog
https://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Arti...-on-russia.htm

America's reckless imperial agenda should terrify everyone, a permanent war policy targeting all nations not serving its interests, wanting pro-Western puppet regimes replacing them - willing to risk destroying planet earth to own it. Imperial madness may kill us all, especially if neocons infesting Washington wage war on Russia … if militantly anti-Russia/war goddess/she-devil Hillary succeeds Obama, humanity's greatest threat.

Syria is the world's most dangerous flashpoint … pitting Russia wanting the nation freed from the scourge of US-supported terrorism v. Washington's determination to use it as an imperial force for conquest, a step toward its ultimate aim of unchallenged global dominance. …

John Kerry's ultimatum … amounted to saying stop combating US-supported terrorists so they can regain and upper hand, prevail in the area and ultimately defeat government forces. … Moscow has a choice - defeat terrorism in Syria or yield to US interests, let Washington gain another imperial trophy, leaving Iran vulnerable to become the next domino to fall, then face a US-backed terrorist infestation in its heartland …

How much more evidence is needed to know [Washington’s] criminal cabal in charge wants Kremlin leadership ousted, the nation's sovereignty destroyed, and US-controlled governance replacing it - by any means, including nuclear war.

Things seem headed inexorably toward this potentially catastrophic confrontation. Moscow wastes time and energy on diplomacy with a sworn adversary - futile every time tried during the post-Cold War period, especially during Putin's tenure as president. … both nations pursue polar opposite agendas. Washington wants endless war to topple Assad, wanting pro-Western puppet governance replacing him. Russia is committed to defeat the scourge of terrorism in Syria … Conventional diplomacy with Washington is futile, accomplishing nothing - not with neocons in charge.

[jllundqu]

Washington Pushing for War on Russia
from Stephen Lendman blog
https://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Arti...-on-russia.htm

America's reckless imperial agenda should terrify everyone, a permanent war policy targeting all nations not serving its interests, wanting pro-Western puppet regimes replacing them - willing to risk destroying planet earth to own it. Imperial madness may kill us all, especially if neocons infesting Washington wage war on Russia … if militantly anti-Russia/war goddess/she-devil Hillary succeeds Obama, humanity's greatest threat.

Syria is the world's most dangerous flashpoint … pitting Russia wanting the nation freed from the scourge of US-supported terrorism v. Washington's determination to use it as an imperial force for conquest, a step toward its ultimate aim of unchallenged global dominance. …

John Kerry's ultimatum … amounted to saying stop combating US-supported terrorists so they can regain and upper hand, prevail in the area and ultimately defeat government forces. … Moscow has a choice - defeat terrorism in Syria or yield to US interests, let Washington gain another imperial trophy, leaving Iran vulnerable to become the next domino to fall, then face a US-backed terrorist infestation in its heartland …

How much more evidence is needed to know [Washington’s] criminal cabal in charge wants Kremlin leadership ousted, the nation's sovereignty destroyed, and US-controlled governance replacing it - by any means, including nuclear war.

Things seem headed inexorably toward this potentially catastrophic confrontation. Moscow wastes time and energy on diplomacy with a sworn adversary - futile every time tried during the post-Cold War period, especially during Putin's tenure as president. … both nations pursue polar opposite agendas. Washington wants endless war to topple Assad, wanting pro-Western puppet governance replacing him. Russia is committed to defeat the scourge of terrorism in Syria … Conventional diplomacy with Washington is futile, accomplishing nothing - not with neocons in charge.

Good content, but for god's sake the writing is terrible! There are run-ons and fragments practically every other sentence! It is actually difficult to read and comprehend without my mind stuttering to make sense of the rambling gibberish.

[TheCount]

Putin and Assad have agreed they will NOT let the city fall to the US Backed rebels, ISIS, or anyone else.

Eh... I disagree. It's not about liberation or ownership. Aleppo is the home of the Syrian opposition. It is to both Russia and Assad's advantage that the city and its people no longer exist. Every native of Aleppo that is killed or displaced is one less thorn in the side of Assad's regime.


This line of thinking best explains the tactics being used.

[Danke]

Eh... I disagree. It's not about liberation or ownership. Aleppo is the home of the Syrian opposition. It is to both Russia and Assad's advantage that the city and its people no longer exist. Every native of Aleppo that is killed or displaced is one less thorn in the side of Assad's regime.


This line of thinking best explains the tactics being used.

That is why over 600,000 fled east Aleppo controlled by the terrorists to go to the western part of Aleppo controlled by the Syrian government for protection.

[TheCount]

That is why over 600,000 fled east Aleppo controlled by the terrorists to go to the western part of Aleppo controlled by the Syrian government for protection.

They left the besieged area which lacked food, water, medical supplies, services, and humanitarian aid of any kind and was under constant bombardment by Syrian and Russian forces. Their reasons for doing so do not necessarily include that they are supporters of the government.

[Danke]

Get a clue:

[TheCount]

Get a clue:

Can you point out to me which part of her report disagrees with me? At the 8:30 mark she word-for-word says exactly what I said: "That these people (Speaking of both the displaced people and the people in West Aleppo) are not necessarily Assad supporters."

[juleswin]

Eh... I disagree. It's not about liberation or ownership. Aleppo is the home of the Syrian opposition. It is to both Russia and Assad's advantage that the city and its people no longer exist. Every native of Aleppo that is killed or displaced is one less thorn in the side of Assad's regime.


This line of thinking best explains the tactics being used.

The home of Syrian opposition? where did you read that? they have called Homs, idlib, hama all homes of the resistance when their true homes is Riyadh or Washington DC. The people of Aleppo are supportive of the govt effort and against the rebels, the video below talks about stories from Syrians who have family members trapped in Aleppo and how the rebels are preventing people from moving out probably because they are using them as body shields.

Take for example, I do not support our govt in the DC but if rebel/jihadists came for me, you bet your ass that I would be running to govt controlled areas instead of sharia supporting, women stoning NATO supported cavemen.

Also from the video, the speaker talks about how the Syria govt send in doctors and vaccines to treat the civilians trapped into it and hopefully you still don't believe the western propaganda rubbish you just posted after you watched the video.

[TheCount]

The home of Syrian opposition?

Home is probably be a bad characterization. The Syrian opposition is such a messy cluster$#@! of diverse groups with different goals, and the location and importance of Aleppo as formerly the largest city in Syria means that more groups have and seek influence there than in the other cities that you listed. There are more players involved.

The people of Aleppo are supportive of the govt effort and against the rebels

That seems more than a little oversimplistic.

Also from the video, the speaker talks about how the Syria govt send in doctors and vaccines

Don't really see how that has anything to do with what I said.

hopefully you still don't believe the western propaganda rubbish you just posted after you watched the video.

The idea that someone believes in one set of propaganda because they don't believe the opposing propaganda campaign is fallacious. I believe that what she is relating is based upon the truth and likely comes from a genuine and good intention to refute Western propaganda, but given that she is a reporter working for a media company founded by an employee of the Russian government, there are obvious reasons why literally everything she says leans in one direction. Saying that all of the fighters are from outside the city and that they are not supported by any of the locals paints the conflict there in a way that is very favorable to the side of government forces.

I don't believe the western propaganda or the Russian propaganda. Neither are true. The reality is somewhere in the middle.

[AZJoe]

Can you point out to me which part of her report disagrees with me? At the 8:30 mark she word-for-word says exactly what I said: "That these people (Speaking of both the displaced people and the people in West Aleppo) are not necessarily Assad supporters."

Not only is it not "word for word", that comment referenced has absolutely nothing whatsoever in support of the what TheCount said. Quite the contrary, TheCount made the idiotic implication that Syria and Russia somehow want to commit genocide of Syrian people in Aleppo , and even more idiotically that they would somehow benefit from it. Yes TheCount makes the absurd and baseless assertion that the same ISIS/rebel surrounded civilians that the Syrian government had been keeping alive by flying continuous flights of supply planes of food and necessities into almost daily; and that the heroic isolated and surrounded SAA soldiers defending Deir Ezzor and the civilians from endless waves of ISIS attacks from all sides for years now want to exterminate the very people they have been dying to protect. To put it mildly, TheCount's comment not only defies any reality but transcends the bounds lunacy. Quite the opposite of TheCount's assertion, such an extermination would be the worst possible course of action for Syria and Russia.

Here is "word for word" what TheCount said (which BTW is contradicted by almost the entirety of video referenced by Danke):

"Eh... I disagree. It's not about liberation or ownership. Aleppo is the home of the Syrian opposition. It is to both Russia and Assad's advantage that the city and its people no longer exist. Every native of Aleppo that is killed or displaced is one less thorn in the side of Assad's regime. This line of thinking best explains the tactics being used"

[juleswin]

Not only is it not "word for word", that comment referenced has absolutely nothing whatsoever in support of the what TheCount said. Quite the contrary, TheCount made the idiotic implication that Syria and Russia somehow want to commit genocide of Syrian people in Aleppo , and even more idiotically that they would somehow benefit from it. Yes TheCount makes the absurd and baseless assertion that the same ISIS/rebel surrounded civilians that the Syrian government had been keeping alive by flying continuous flights of supply planes of food and necessities into almost daily; and that the heroic isolated and surrounded SAA soldiers defending Deir Ezzor and the civilians from endless waves of ISIS attacks from all sides for years now want to exterminate the very people they have been dying to protect. To put it mildly, TheCount's comment not only defies any reality but transcends the bounds lunacy. Quite the opposite of TheCount's assertion, such an extermination would be the worst possible course of action for Syria and Russia.

Here is "word for word" what TheCount said (which BTW is contradicted by almost the entirety of video referenced by Danke):

"Eh... I disagree. It's not about liberation or ownership. Aleppo is the home of the Syrian opposition. It is to both Russia and Assad's advantage that the city and its people no longer exist. Every native of Aleppo that is killed or displaced is one less thorn in the side of Assad's regime. This line of thinking best explains the tactics being used"

This and also do not forget that the Syrian govt continue to pay out pensions and sending vaccines even in rebel held areas, but listening to the Anti Assad brigade you would think the pension money and vaccines are to be used to kill the trapped Syrians.

Also, how is Thecount's belief that Assad wants to kill civilians in western Aleppo match with him providing safe passages for civilians trapped in the city? or amnesty for fighters who surrender? I love it that this sort of blatant anti Assad propaganda is quickly squashed on this forum.

[juleswin]

Home is probably be a bad characterization. The Syrian opposition is such a messy cluster$#@! of diverse groups with different goals, and the location and importance of Aleppo as formerly the largest city in Syria means that more groups have and seek influence there than in the other cities that you listed. There are more players involved.

The point I was making is that Aleppo is not even remotely know by anyone as the home of the rebels, because for one they only occupy a small portion of the city and two, the so called uprising doesn't have any roots in Aleppo, in fact the foreign fighters in there now fought for a long time to break into it. Aleppo is not the home of the rebels the way an burglarized house is not the home of the burglar. Just do a google search and see how many results that says Aleppo is home of the Syrian rebels.

That seems more than a little oversimplistic.

Its not overly simplistic and this is because like how the woman in the video said, the people of eastern Aleppo are not necessarily Assad supporters but they oppose destroying Syria in order to reform the system. And this is the truth for most wars and especially foreign invasions

Don't really see how that has anything to do with what I said.

I was replying to the post you made down thread, sorry about that.

The idea that someone believes in one set of propaganda because they don't believe the opposing propaganda campaign is fallacious. I believe that what she is relating is based upon the truth and likely comes from a genuine and good intention to refute Western propaganda, but given that she is a reporter working for a media company founded by an employee of the Russian government, there are obvious reasons why literally everything she says leans in one direction. Saying that all of the fighters are from outside the city and that they are not supported by any of the locals paints the conflict there in a way that is very favorable to the side of government forces.

I don't believe the western propaganda or the Russian propaganda. Neither are true. The reality is somewhere in the middle.

When you have a recent history like the Americans of lying your way into every war, I think all the information you put out about war should be dismissed out of hand. On the other had, we don't have that with Russia or Syria so I am going to give them all the benefit of the doubt in this case. Also their position is more logical than the propaganda you are spewing on this site. This is why I believe them over you/US department/UN etc. Got it?

[osan]

Judging by the events unfolding in Syria, it has become pretty clear that the city of Aleppo is Russia's 'Red Line.' Putin and Assad have agreed they will NOT let the city fall to the US Backed rebels, ISIS, or anyone else. The US is trying like hell, even killing 80 or so Syrian soldiers in a nearby city, threatening and sabre rattling... but Putin and Assad are having none of it.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-0...litary-options

If the claims in the article are true, then all I can say is make damned sure you have a full year's supply of long-shelf foods on hand. If you don't have a good compliment of arms and ammo, get them NOW. The spectre hiding just below the words of this article should give you great pause and concern for what may come in the coming year.

This could all be more smoke and mirrors designed to keep poor stooges such as myself in a state of misapprehension. But what if it is not? What if it is the product of unsound minds at work with their long lever arms of global military power? If it comes to nukes, well then there is no point worrying. But short of that there may well be enough of the world remaining such that you may actually want to try to survive, in which case you will need provisions.

This whole situation reminds me of the scene in that horrible remake of "The Day The Earth Stood Still" with Keanu Reeves where the Chinese d00d from "Big Trouble In Little China" tells Klaatu something to the effect that "they are aware of their situation but seem unable to do anything about it."

[jllundqu]

If the claims in the article are true, then all I can say is make damned sure you have a full year's supply of long-shelf foods on hand. If you don't have a good compliment of arms and ammo, get them NOW. The spectre hiding just below the words of this article should give you great pause and concern for what may come in the coming year.

This could all be more smoke and mirrors designed to keep poor stooges such as myself in a state of misapprehension. But what if it is not? What if it is the product of unsound minds at work with their long lever arms of global military power? If it comes to nukes, well then there is no point worrying. But short of that there may well be enough of the world remaining such that you may actually want to try to survive, in which case you will need provisions.

This whole situation reminds me of the scene in that horrible remake of "The Day The Earth Stood Still" with Keanu Reeves where the Chinese d00d from "Big Trouble In Little China" tells Klaatu something to the effect that "they are aware of their situation but seem unable to do anything about it."

I'm fairly well off on provisions, ammo, and the like. My concern would be access to potable water... Were the S to HTF... I would face the choice of whether to shelter in place and ride it out... or pack what I can in my truck and high-tail it to the mountains where I would meet up with friends at the cabin...

Damn these pols for even pushing us this far.... I really would simply like to live in peace.... but I guess a man my age in Syria with a family is saying the same thing right now... most don't have a dog in the fight other than the preservation of their country and culture.

How is it that the world has gone so crazy that I am rooting for Assad and Putin for the protection of Syria from US backed terrorists?

[juleswin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjfuRgJdh70

Keep your eyes on the "injured" guy on the right. Think of this whenever you read stories Russia targeting children in underground schools with bunker busters or hear about all the women and children being targeted by the evil Russians

[juleswin]

Eh... I disagree. It's not about liberation or ownership. Aleppo is the home of the Syrian opposition. It is to both Russia and Assad's advantage that the city and its people no longer exist. Every native of Aleppo that is killed or displaced is one less thorn in the side of Assad's regime.


This line of thinking best explains the tactics being used.

After seeing and hearing from the survivors of Aleppo, do you still believe this about Aleppo or Assad?

[juleswin]

Eh... I disagree. It's not about liberation or ownership. Aleppo is the home of the Syrian opposition. It is to both Russia and Assad's advantage that the city and its people no longer exist. Every native of Aleppo that is killed or displaced is one less thorn in the side of Assad's regime.


This line of thinking best explains the tactics being used.

Good watch if you have two minutes to spare