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Thread: Trump to declare national emergency for border wall after signing spending bill

  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Oh okay. Here I thought he was expanding executive powers faster than Clinton. Here Trump is scaling back executive overreach in the same sense that proposed budget increase decreases constitute slashing spending.


    I'm not sure what you're saying when you're comparing Trump to Clinton, but it sounds like a money comparison.
    Either way, I would still guess that the largest percentage debt and deficit were under FDR.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members



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  3. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He already set that before this emergency, can't you remember what the subject is for two minutes at a time or is this just some stupid attempt to distract from the fact that you are wrong?
    And when he did that before it was a bad precedent. He's expanding on the bad precedent. I'm not wrong. You're just retarded. But that is nothing new to me. Also you don't even understand the meaning of the word "precedent." When courts refer to precedent they don't just talk about the first time something happens but all of the precedent.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

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    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
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    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
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    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  4. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You are changing the subject, this isn't about face scanning cameras, we were talking about whether Trump's emergency declaration set some kind of dangerous new precedent. It didn't.
    Look at the thread title. Of course Trump's invasive domestic spy gear is germane to the topic. Your attempt to censor us is childish, churlish and ineffective.

    Get over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    And he gets neither.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 02-16-2019 at 09:01 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  5. #244
    I’m sure I’ve missed all kinds of stimulating debate on the subject, but these “National Emergencies” declared by the President should be unconstitutional. When we have these edicts outstanding for decades, they are not emergencies in any sense of the word. They are policy with the weight of law. True emergencies should be like war, with a declaration from Congress.

    If this goes to the Supreme Court, the best outcome would be to rule the entire concept unconstitutional, and declare all outstanding POTUS declared “national emergencies” null and void.

    How much leeway the executive branch has to move around funds and fulfill it’s duty as the executive branch may be debatable, but this “emergency declaration” power should definitely lie with Congress, not the POTUS.
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  6. #245
    Trump worried about unconstitutional power grabs as he tries to seize the power of spending from Congress to build his wall. "So Third World!
    You have to obey the law!"




  7. #246
    Fox News: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...r-davis-hanson

    Messina pointed out that during his news conference, President Trump admitted that he “didn’t need” to declare a national emergency but that he did so to expedite funding for the wall, which Messina concluded made the event the “definition of not an emergency.

    “This is a troubling move by a president. The framers put together a Constitution to make sure that there was separation of powers and not to have kings. And I think the president is right, he’s going to spend a lot of time in court,” Messina said.

    Benson seemed to agree with the sentiment, calling Trump’s decision “politically questionable” and “legally dubious.”

    Frankly, as a conservative, I hope he loses in court on this because I do not want a precedent where presidents can get rejected or stymied by Congress and go ahead and do what they want anyhow."
    Fox Poll: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-2-13-19

    If Congress does not approve funding for a wall, would you support or oppose the president bypassing Congress and declaring a national emergency on the nation’s southern border that would give him the executive power to construct a border wall without congressional approval?

    Favor: 38%
    Oppose: 56%
    Don't Know: 6
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 02-16-2019 at 04:26 PM.

  8. #247
    He said he didn't need to sign the bill, he didn't say he didn't need to declare the emergency.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He said he didn't need to sign the bill, he didn't say he didn't need to declare the emergency.
    Context:

    "I could do the wall over a longer period of time. I didn't need to do this," Trump told reporters gathered in the White House Rose Garden on Friday, shortly before he signed a proclamation declaring the emergency. "But I'd rather do it much faster."
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ys/2881619002/
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 02-16-2019 at 04:49 PM.



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  11. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    It was also shortly AFTER he signed the bill.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It was also shortly AFTER he signed the bill.
    Signing the bill doesn't "build the wall much faster" but signing the State of Emergency does.

    "But I'd rather do it much faster."

  13. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Signing the bill doesn't "build the wall much faster" but signing the State of Emergency does.
    Yes it does.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes it does.
    How so? It funded 55 miles. Is that "fast" building of his wall? Trump wanted 2000 miles. Then 500 miles. Then 500 miles including replacing existing wall. $1.8 billion was enough when he wanted $20 billion, or is it now $5 billion?
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 02-16-2019 at 05:01 PM.

  15. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    How so? It funded 55 miles.
    It ended the shutdown fight and gave him the justification to declare the emergency now.
    If he hadn't signed the bill and had declared the emergency he would have been attacked for not signing anything Congress sent him with or without any wall finding in it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again

  17. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It ended the shutdown fight and gave him the justification to declare the emergency now.
    If he hadn't signed the bill and had declared the emergency he would have been attacked for not signing anything Congress sent him with or without any wall finding in it.
    Your claim was that signing the bill built the wall faster. But if that was the case, there was no reason to declare an emergency.



    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Signing the bill doesn't "build the wall much faster" but signing the State of Emergency does.
    Yes it does.

  18. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Your claim was that signing the bill built the wall faster. But if that was the case, there was no reason to declare an emergency.
    Yes there was, the bill didn't provide enough money to deal with the emergency situation.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  20. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by RonZeplin View Post
    That is Fake News as I have been explaining.

    Are you now going open borders publicly?
    I thought you were mad that Trump hasn't done more to stop the invasion?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That is Fake News as I have been explaining.

    Are you now going open borders publicly?
    I thought you were mad that Trump hasn't done more to stop the invasion?
    False dichotomy. Saying more wall is not necessary is not saying the borders should be open. Trump himself has tweeted the border is secure. (see my sig). Ron Paul is against more border wall. Rand Paul is against Trump declaring an emergency. Would you say they are "open borders"? Why are you against the principles of the forum?

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...cy-Declaration

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...onal-Emergency
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 02-16-2019 at 05:29 PM.

  22. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    False dichotomy. Saying more wall is not necessary is not saying the borders should be open. Trump himself has tweeted the border is secure. (see my sig). Ron Paul is against more border wall. Rand Paul is against Trump declaring an emergency. Why are you against the principles of the forum?

    The border is not secure, Trump was using hyperbola as he often does and he was speaking relatively, RonZ is not against the wall, he is just a terminal TDS victim, I do not support the wall because I want increased patrols instead but there is an emergency and the President has both legal and Constitutional authority to repel invasions, I am for the principles of the forum and you are not, Ron may be absolutely opposed to the wall and the emergency declaration but that doesn't make either part of the fundamental principles of this site.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post

    The border is not secure, Trump was using hyperbola as he often does and he was speaking relatively, RonZ is not against the wall, he is just a terminal TDS victim, I do not support the wall because I want increased patrols instead but there is an emergency and the President has both legal and Constitutional authority to repel invasions, I am for the principles of the forum and you are not, Ron may be absolutely opposed to the wall and the emergency declaration but that doesn't make either part of the fundamental principles of this site.
    Yes, Trump does use hyperbole. And facts and even his own experts show there is not the crisis at the border he is trying to portray it as. He is trying to create and exploit a situation to grab more power. That is why Rand and Ron oppose what he is trying to do.

  24. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Yes, Trump does use hyperbole. And facts and even his own experts show there is not the crisis at the border he is trying to portray it as. He is trying to create and exploit a situation to grab more power. That is why Rand and Ron oppose what he is trying to do.
    Facts show there is a crisis, an existential crisis for America and liberty.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It was also shortly AFTER he signed the bill.
    What is he saying that he didn't need to do, and could do over a longer period of time?

    Whether it's his emergency declaration or the omnibus, being able to do it over a longer period of time means it's not an emergency.

  26. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Facts show there is a crisis, an existential crisis for America and liberty.
    You got in most of your key words from the web control guidebook. Don't worry about facts not supporting you. Good job!

  27. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    What is he saying that he didn't need to do, and could do over a longer period of time?

    Whether it's his emergency declaration or the omnibus, being able to do it over a longer period of time means it's not an emergency.
    Signing the bill and ending the shutdown fight was not an emergency but it allowed him to declare the emergency to deal with the invasion which is an emergency.

    Shutdown =/= emergency
    Invasion = emergency
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    You got in most of your key words from the web control guidebook. Don't worry about facts not supporting you. Good job!
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Signing the bill and ending the shutdown fight was not an emergency but it allowed him to declare the emergency to deal with the invasion which is an emergency.

    Shutdown =/= emergency
    Invasion = emergency
    The beginning of the quote was, "I could do the wall over a longer period of time."

    Not, "I could stretch out the shutdown for a longer period of time."

    According to Trump, there is no immediate emergency requiring that he build the wall faster than he could do over whatever longer period of time he means. He merely would rather do it faster than that.

  31. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    The beginning of the quote was, "I could do the wall over a longer period of time."

    Not, "I could stretch out the shutdown for a longer period of time."

    According to Trump, there is no immediate emergency requiring that he build the wall faster than he could do over whatever longer period of time he means. He merely would rather do it faster than that.
    I could wait longer to put out the fire in my house but that doesn't mean it isn't an emergency.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  32. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post

    Why are you against the principles of the forum?

    You might want to take a look at some of those yourself, chief.




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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  33. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    You might want to take a look at some of those yourself, chief.
    Those are hardly ever enforced and when they are the enforcement is uneven.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #270

    Thumbs down Amnesty Bill of Love soon - meanwhile sanctuary and freebies, gov cheeze

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That is Fake News as I have been explaining.

    Are you now going open borders publicly?
    I thought you were mad that Trump hasn't done more to stop the invasion?
    A wall is not the best solution to restoring US sovereignty, but it's a small part of it.

    The state of emergency is political theater, now Donnell will try to claim that the border is really secure this time, and millions of invaders who made it here deserve a "Bill of Love" amnesty because he has a big heart, like Jeb!



    All the while refusing to obey his oath of office and deport the illegal aliens, but instead providing sanctuary until he can get an amnesty "Bill of Love" passed in Congress. Is he trying to remove gov "freebies" for his Dreamy Students? No, but he added farm subsidies to the many other socialist programs that he provides for them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again

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