The NAZIs nationalized a lot of industries.Originally Posted by juleswin
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
I think we have all seen AZjoe's post. Just refer to it for any further questions. Thanks AZJoe, your contributions to this site in defense of liberty is invaluable.
We don't know how they would have voted in the last election. The economic demographics of the protests are changing. The wealthy have been protesting (and leaving) for years now. But lately even the slum dwellers are complaining that they're tired of searching through the garbage for food.
Chile worked out ok. I want Venezuela to be a capitalist country as well.
Only the empire and its vassals are calling it a sham. Interestingly the empire waited a full eight months before it hysterical election. Only this month Prence made the call to Guiado to announce himself as unelected President. Why the long delay? Why now? Well what recently happened happened in Venezuela these past two months that might explain the trigger of such a reckless, hysterical move by the empire -
1. In October Venezuela ended the use of dollar for international transactions, in favor of the Euro and Yuan.
2. This month Venezuela signs deal to move its oil refining operations to Turkey, using gold trade to bypass Washington's sanctions.
3. Last Month Venezuela, with the world's largest known oil reserves, signs a deal with Russia to beef up its oil production.
4. This month Venezuela assumed the presidency of OPEC and began a push for oil sales in non-dollar currencies.
5. This month Venezuela gave the go ahead for Russian gold mining inside Venezuela.
*** Now all of a sudden frantic and desperate Washington announces it has appointed a new President to rule over Venezuela. COINCIDENCE?
As to the early election in May 2018 - it was the opposition that called for the early election.
- It was held prior to January 2019 as required by the Constitution.
- Yes some opposition elements decided nto to participate, but hat is there choice. Voting is not mandatory in Venezuela.
- Sixteen , 16, political parties did participate in the election.
- Maduro not only won, but won by a wide margin - 67%.
- The election was observed by 14 electoral commissions from eight countries; two technical electoral missions; 18 journalist representatives from around the world; and a representative form the European Parliament
- The election system is automated, audited before, during, and after the elections. The system uses fingerprint verification to avoid double votings and guarantees the principle of “one voter, one vote”.
- Eighteen audits were conducted on the automated system. The representatives of opposition candidate Henri Falcón participated in all 18 audits and signed confirming conformity with the voting system.
- The audits are public and broadcast live by the National Election Council’s TV channel. Once the audits are done, the system locks, and the only way of accessing it again is by introducing simultaneously the passwords that each political organisation has.
- Not a single candidate, let alone an opposition candidate that participated in the electoral process contested the results.
- Despite the US mainstream media propaganda campaign, no proof of any fraud has been presented. No evidence of any fraud has been presented.
The US mainstream media and deep state that pulled a Russiagate on Trump to try to delegitimize the US election, is now doing the exact same thing to Venezuela. They are a pulling a false campaign "Russiagate" on Maduro. Wash, rinse repeat. Shout the lie loudly enough and repeate it over and over, and no evidence is required.
Why do people keep getting duped over and over and over again byt he lying media- deep state partnership, even when they know better? Its because they willfully choose to be duped. they know the media has an agenda. They know it lies and has been caught in lies over and over and over. they know it dutifully always toes the deep state lines. Nevertheless they choose to willfully be duped by the media again and again. They wish the lis to be true they just just believe them without evidence, without skepticism. Choose not to be a media NPC zombie. Even when you wish what they say to be true, question it. Demand evidence. Be skeptical. Look for the motives.
"Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
"War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.
So you agree with the Venezuelan twitter person that it is more a military defensive move than an attempt to steal the nations vast mineral resources right? cos you said the miliatry angle made more sense that the stealing of resources.
So my question is this, why did the US start attempting to remove him in 2002 for something that just started happening a few years ago? Btw, any opponent of Washington who hasn't started deepening their military alliance with Russia and China is a fool. You are just opening yourself and your country to end up like Gaddafi and Libya. It is Washington's action over the decades that has caused Venezuela to shack up with Russia and China, not the other way around.
But who will be blamed?
The "rich" (bourgeoisie, kulaks, counter-revoltionaries).
Chile had Pinochet, who saved the country, lining up Lenin-types against a wall and shooting them.Chile worked out ok. I want Venezuela to be a capitalist country as well.
A lot of industries like?
What we know
http://www.ub.edu/graap/nazi.pdfAgainst the mainstream: Nazi privatization in 1930s Germany
II. Selling public ownership.
In an article published in the Der Deutsche Volkswirt in February 1934, Heinz Marschner proposed “The reprivatization of urban transportation, which after the period of inflation came under public control, especially in the hands of local governments.” (Marschner 1934, p. 587, author’s translation). This proposal was related to the Nazi government’s support for returning the ownership of urban transportation back to the private sector. Several months later, in an article discussing banking policy in Germany, Hans Baumgarten (1934, p. 1645) analyzed the conditions required for the reprivatization in the German banking sector. Discussion of privatization was increasingly common soon after the Nazi government took office early in 1933, and privatizations soon followed.
Railways:
In the 1930s The Deutsche Reichsbahn (German Railways) was the largest single public enterprise in the world (Macmahon and Dittmar 1939, p.484), bringing together most of the railways services operating within Germany. The German Budget for fiscal year 1934/35, the last one published (Pollock, 1938, p. 121), established that Railway preference shares4 worth Reichsmark (Rm.) 224 million were to be sold.
Steel and mining:
In 1932, the German government bought more than 120 million marks of shares in Gelsenkirchen Bergbau (Gelsenkirchen Mining Company), the strongest firm inside the Vereinigte Stahlwerke A.G. (United Steelworks).6 At that time, the United Steel Trust was the second largest joint-stock company in Germany (the largest was Farben Industrie A.G.). The state took over the shares at 364 percent of their market value (Wengenroth, 2000, p. 115). A range of reasons has been given for the nationalization: a) to have effective control over the United Steel Trust (The Economist, July 8, 1933, 117 (4689), p. 73), b) to socialize costs derived from the effects of the Great Depression (Neumann, 1944, p. 297): and c) to prevent foreign capital taking over the firm (Wengenroth, 2000, p. 115). Soon after the Nazi party came to power, United Steel was reorganized so that the
government majority stake of 52 per cent was converted into a stake of less than 25 per cent, no longer sufficient in German law to give the government any privileges in company control.7 Fritz Thyssen, who held the leading position in the Trust, had been one of only two big industrialists to give support to the Nazi Party before it won political dominance (Barkai, 1990, p. 10). In 1936, the Government sold its block of shares, amounting to about Rm. 100 million, to the United Steel Association.8 The company Vereinigte Oberschlesische Hüttenwerke AG had control of all metal production in the Upper Silesian coal and steel industry. The Seehandlung (Prussian state bank) owned 45 per cent of this firm. The remaining shares were owned by Castellengo-Abwehr, one of the major Upper Silesian coal mines. Castellengo’s capital was owned by Ballestrem. In mid 1937, the state’s Rm. 6.75 million of shares were sold to Castellengo
And on and on on how the Nazis privatized their banking, ship building, local public utilitizes, transport, social service sectors. The question for you people is this, how can a party with Socialism in its name be caught selling off govt owned property? You people are suffering from socialism derangement syndrome
Can someone please send this paper to Tom Woods cos I am going to throw up next time I listen to him talk about how socialist the Nazi govt was. This wouldn't be such a problem if he did not throw his support for a candidate more socialistic than Hitler himself. If you don't know what I am talking about, Tom Woods(yes, the bald and stocky one) supported Donald Trump in the last election.
Last edited by juleswin; 01-28-2019 at 11:00 PM.
IT WAS NOT THE OPPOSITION THAT CALLED FOR EARLY ELECTIONS
THE OPPOSITION BOYCOTTED THE ELECTIONS BECAUSE OF HOW THEY WERE BEING HANDLED
THERE ARE MANY COMMUNIST COUNTRIES AND COMMUNIST SYMPATHIZING COUNTRIES THAT ALWAYS BACK UP COMMUNIST REGIEMS
VOTING MACHINES CAN ALWAYS BE HACKED
LOTS OF PEOPLE INCLUDING CANDIDATES DISPUTED THE RESULTS
CHAVEZ AND MADURO HAVE BEEN RIGGING ELECTIONS FOR YEARS
MADURO LOST THE LAST LEGISLATIVE ELECTION SO HE CREATED A NEW LEGISLATURE AND RIGGED THE VOT TO ELECT ITS MEMBERS, THEN THAT RUBBER STAMP LEGISLATURE VIOLATED THE CONTITUTION TO CALL AN EARLY ELECTION THAT WAS THEN RIGGED
WHY WOULD PEOPLE WHO ELECTED THE OPPOSITION TO THE OLD LEGISLATURE ELECT LOYALISTS TO THE NEW LEGISLATURE AND REELECT MADURO?
The electoral conduct has been described as being fraudulent,[108] with the call for an election by the pro-government Constituent National Assembly being declared unconstitutional in the first place, especially when the body moved the election date ahead from December to April.[109] The National Electoral Council (CNE), which is charged with overseeing elections in Venezuela, is also controlled by Maduro sympathizers.[109] The Bolivarian government has also been accused of excluding opposition candidates, handpicking candidates, voter intimidation, vote buying, and offering food to those who vote for President Maduro.[108][109] No recognized electoral observers were said to be present for the elections.[109]
National Electoral Council bias
The Venezuelan Electoral Observatory noted that the call for elections was disrespecting the tradition of organizing them in December, while nothing in the Venezuelan constitution prevents elections from being called early,[110] with exceptions in the year 2000 during the re-legitimization of all public powers by the approval of a new constitution; in October 2012 for the illness of Hugo Chávez, and in April 2013 for being an election due to the death of the president, maintaining that "the decision announced again showed the political bias of the electoral referee, since it included elements that made it difficult to have an election under equal conditions"[111] and that the CNE" struck a blow to democratic plurality" by preventing opposition parties from participating in the presidential election.[112] It also stated that since 2016 the electoral justice system administered in the country was "not impartial", citing the cases of the indigenous deputies of the Amazonas state who were dismissed from their positions for alleged irregularities in their election, which after two years have not been proven, while the fraud allegations made by the candidate to the governorship of Bolívar, Andrés Velásquez in October 2017 had yet not been investigated.[111]
Announcement of election
The 1999 Venezuelan constitution establishes that the Electoral Branch, conformed by the National Electoral Council and its subordinate organisms, is responsible for "the organization, administration, direction and surveillance of all the acts related to the election of positions of representation of the branches of government, as well as referendums". Despite this, the Constituent Assembly issued a decree in January 2018 ordering the CNE to organize the presidential elections to be held in April.[37] The Venezuelan Electoral Observatory claimed that "the decision announced by the CNE evidences once more the political bias of the electoral arbitrator" and warned that 74 days are insufficient to guarantee the equality and transparency of the elections.[112]
The Observatory pointed out that phases of the process such as the selection of new board members, the choosing of subordinate electoral organisms in public raffles, the deployment of extraordinary journeys of inscription,[clarification needed] the update of the Electoral Registry in a broad span that allows the incorporation of the largest amount of Venezuelans, the maintenance of the voting machines, the appropriate implementation of technical audits that guarantee the proper functioning of the automated voting system, and the organization of quality international missions would all be affected due to the lack of time.[112]
The Electoral Citizen Network described as "irregular" the order of the Constituent Assembly to summon presidential elections before 30 April 2018, claiming that it is a violation of the constitution and civil rights.[113] Like the 2017 municipal elections, the announcement was made less than six months in advance, the time necessary to facilitate the lapses established in the normal electoral process. Súmate and Voto Joven [es] indicated that this would shorten the terms of the Electoral Registry, generating a "hasty and little transparent process". The Electoral Citizen Network demanded the Electoral Branch the performance of special operatives for the inscription and update of voters in Venezuela and abroad.[114][115]
Ramón Guillermo Aveledo, former executive secretary of the Democratic Unity Roundtable, compared the elections to the 1957 referendum of dictator Marcos Pérez Jiménez, noting that Article 82 and the Organic Law for the Public Municipal Branch specifies the prohibition that the elections for municipal positions are carried out along with the national elections, and that the mandate of the National Assembly ends in 2021, meaning that shortening its period, something he claims is not provided in the constitution or the Venezuelan electoral laws, is "dissolving it", which would be considered "a coup d'état" against the Legislative Branch.[116]
Electoral schedule
Two weeks after the Constituent Assembly ordered the elections and following the failure of the dialogue between the Bolivarian government and the opposition in the Dominican Republic, the CNE fixed 22 April 2018 as the day of the elections in a press conference, also announcing 15 audits and giving some dates, but without formally disclosing the electoral schedule. After changing the date of the elections to 20 May 2018 on 1 March, the CNE took 13 days to disclose the schedule. The Venezuelan Electoral Observatory and the Global Observatory of Communication and Democracy declared that the CNE has reduced the terms in each of the phases of the electoral schedule for the presidential elections since 2013, and in comparison to the 2006 and 2012 schedules with the 2018 one, the spans of the phases went from having up to three months to only two or three days in fundamental aspects, according to the last announcement of the elections. Both the time allotted for applications toward the Electoral Registry and the electoral campaigns were significantly reduced. To determine the electoral districts, the CNE must comply with the population estimates provided by the state-run National Institute of Statistics of Venezuela [es], which in turn requires the approval of the National Assembly first. This step was omitted and the CNE published the districts for the legislative councils at its own discretion, without disclosing its process and without answering any complaints.[37]
On 26 March, the Peace and Justice Center (CEPAZ) denounced how the CNE changed the schedule of the 20 May elections "clandestinely and surreptitiously", what it constituted as "a new irregularity that prevents the adequate information about the electoral offers from being guaranteed and facilitated to the voters", referring to the modification made for the ballot choices by the political parties, electoral groups, indigenous organizations, initiatives carried out on 24 March and for the regional candidates, they were scheduled for 26 March in the 23 regional offices of the CNE. According to the Electoral Branch schedule published on 13 March, the choice on ballot for national organizations would be carried out on 21 March and in the case of the regional ones on 22 March, but each one was postponed between three and four days, prompting CEPAZ to warn that due to the "opaque and quiet modification of the electoral schedule", five days were removed from the production and distribution process of the invalid electoral ballots, "further diminishing the possibility of having voters informed".[117]
The Venezuelan Electoral Observatory stressed in its report about the elections that the process for nominating presidential candidates was only allowed for only three days in 2018, from 26 to 28 February, while the modification and substitution of nominations, "the CNE enabled 118 days on 2012 and only 2 March in 2018 for this occasion". The Observatory also stressed that although the terms were changed to add the legislative councils, this did not mean a further extension of the days because "16 activities were compressed to be carried out in only 17 days, a schedule in which no task lasted more than eight days". The electoral schedule did not include national observers nor international accompaniment, which the CNE accepted until 2015. After the signature of the Agreement of Electoral Guarantees on 1 March by the political parties Great Patriotic Pole, Movimiento al Socialismo, Avanzada Progresista, and COPEI, the United Nations was requested to head an electoral mission, but the organization refused to accept the offer, even after receiving a formal invitation and accepting visits from principal candidates or their representatives.[37]
Electoral Registry
The Venezuelan Electoral Registry determines the number of people that will vote and in it the voters that must comply with mandatory electoral service in electoral boards are chosen, as well as the regional, municipal and parochial boards for the elections.[37] While in the 2012 presidential elections the CNE took two months to carry out the data update, migration and inscription of new voters in the Electoral Registry, in the 2018 elections the voters only had ten days between 10 and 20 February according to the both the first 22 April and the definitive 20 May electoral schedules, both inside and outside the country, and the audits to the data were shortened from months to a few days.[118] The Electoral Registry has not been audited since 2005, with no independent observation for over a decade by the date of the election.[109]
In 2012 more than 1,300 updates of the Electoral Registry points were deployed on a national scale, but in 2018 less than half were opened, 531. The Global Observatory of Communication and Democracy estimated in the report The Citizen Observation of the Electoral Registry 2017 that at least 1,769,035 young voters were not inscribed in the Electoral Registry by December 2017. For the Venezuelan Electoral Observatory, the "CNE has done little to encourage the inscription of these new voters in the registry with institutional campaigns, breaking the current electoral law that which obligates it to deploy inscription and update centers in 'sectors of difficult access and/or of highest population concentration' in all the national territory and in any moment of the year" according to Article 33 of the Organic Law of Electoral Processes [es], and that "what is needed for the citizen to exercise their right to vote is not being done".[118]
On 15 February, President Maduro, without being an electoral authority, announced the extension for five days for the inscription in the electoral registry abroad and informed the opening of the Venezuelan consulate in Miami so that Venezuelans living in the city could make changes and participate. The second opening of the registry happened with the elections date change to 20 May and it was opened from 2 to 10 March. In theory, the registry allowed to update information or inscribe new voters for 24 days abroad the country and 19 in Venezuela, but electoral experts denounced obstacles for the inscription of Venezuelans abroad, because besides being insufficient it led to other obstacles that did not allow for more assistance to embassies or consultares. The electoral registry abroad only increased by 7,028 voters, which does not represent even the 0.5% of the Venezuelans estimated abroad. Nationally by 910,272 new voters were registered, adding to the 20,759,809 existing voters. Voto Joven complained because the consultes did not work on holidays, only worked on office hours without enough time or information, as well as the requirement to ask for a permanent visa to those who live in the countries where the opening was formalized, even though to vote only a laminated identity card is needed.[37]
The Observatory also denounced that "The ER of Venezuelans abroad has been in a sort of illegal suspension since 2012, a measure violatory of the current electoral law" and that according to the last report of the CNE on 30 April 2017, the Venezuelans with the right to vote abroad are only 101,595 voters, "a number much lower than the migrants with the right to vote" in comparison to the estimates of between 2 and 4 million Venezuelans living abroad. Even though to vote only a laminated identity card is needed, active passports, original birth certificates, visas, residence letters, and other administrative requirements not covered by law were requested by consulates and embassies, preventing their participation in the elections.[118]
Agreement of Electoral Guarantees
The signing of the Agreement of Electoral Guarantees by three of the original five presidential candidates – Maduro, Falcón, and Bertucci – was presented by the candidates as an extension of the electoral norms. The agreement included, among other aspects, the move to eliminate pro-government "red points" controlled by chavistas – which after the agreement had to be moved farther away from voting centers – the call for international observers and the return to voting center locations changed during the Constituent Assembly elections and the 2017 regional elections. The agreement has been questioned and rejected by the NGOs Voto Joven, CEPAZ, and the Global Observatory of Communication and Democracy. On 27 March, the CEPAZ director Beatriz Borges declared that "the Agreement of Electoral Guarantees is a scam for the citizen since it covers initiatives that were already established in the Law and that the CNE has not met".
Despite that the presidential candidates Henri Falcón, Javier Bertucci, and Luis Alejandro Ratti denounced the violation of guarantees provided in the agreement, on 2 May the president of the CNE, Tibisay Lucena, contradicted the complaints and assured that the Agreement of Electoral Guarantees was "fulfilled in its entirety".[119]
Campaigning
The presidential and legislative councils campaign started on 22 April and ended on 17 May at midnight, according to the schedule approved by the CNE. However, candidates postulated for the presidency or the reelection carried out activities with the electorate and exposed proposals that will be executed in case of being elected, violating Article 75 of the Organic Law of Electoral Processes [es].[83] Francisco Castro, national coordinator of Súmate, pointed out that the CNE provided only 26 days for the national campaigning, explaining that the term "does not allow candidates to have enough time to promote their ideas and call for participation, so they are forced to anticipate their campaign. By tradition, the process lasts more than 60 days", noting that the CNE began the process only 80 days prior to the election of more than 500 positions, reducing the time of the activities. Equally, he indicated that the CNE does not regulate pre-campaign activities and stated that as long as there is not an explicit call to vote, then the candidate cannot be sanctioned. Castro explained that the pattern carried out since the government of Hugo Chávez is repeated in which electoral campaigns are used to inaugurate works and make promises. He continued by stating that the practice should be prevented, that "an official, such as the president, uses the communication platform to take advantage of the other candidates", saying that during the elections there were several candidates who used propaganda on television, but that the CNE does not limit the number of minutes, the content or the number of times that it is transmitted daily.[83]
Ignacio Ávalos, director of the Venezuelan Electoral Observatory, and political scientist Luis Salamanca agreed that until now, an electoral environment or government project does not exist, but rather "a struggle to achieve power", stressing that electoral competition was suppressed and that an electoral campaign was designed for the United Socialist Party of Venezuela's own convenience. Salamanca asserted that "Maduro distributes benefits to obtain votes and Falcón offers benefits in the future in exchange for votes. Neither has enough weight to mobilize the country electorally".[83]
Vote buying
Reports of vote buying were also prevalent during the presidential campaigning. Venezuelans suffering from hunger were pressured to vote for Maduro, with the government bribing potential supporters with food.[121] Maduro promised rewards for citizens who scanned their Carnet de la Patria at the voting booth, which would allow the government to monitor the political party of their citizens and whether or not they had voted. These prizes were reportedly never delivered.[120]
In a visit to Delta Amacuro, president and reelection candidate Nicolás Maduro gave away eight motor boats, nine ambulances, and reopened the "Antonio Díaz" Tucupita Airport, among other announcements, violating Article 223 of the Organic Law of Electoral Processes which forbids the use of state resources during election campaigns, as well as one of the prerogatives in the Agreement of Electoral Guarantees signed by the presidential candidates to the CNE.[123][124][125] On 8 May Maduro again violated the electoral law during an electoral act in the Amazonas state by promising to give fuel to the entity in exchange for votes.[126][127][128][129]
Campaign closure
The Tal Cual newspaper published an article describing Maduro's final campaign rally on 17 May as "the greatest demonstration of corruption", criticizing the "shameless" use of state resources, including the use of ministerial staff and publishing audio which revealed that promotion of the final rally was created using the payroll of government offices. Tal Cual also published the PSUV's operative plan of the rally, which did not include tasks directed towards PSUV party members but instead assigns responsibilities to the state ministries and other public institutions, including the mobilization of people. The operative plan details that the state-run oil company PDVSA installed the main stage, generators, the backing, and the sound systems, that the Defense Ministry was in charge of the fireworks detonations, that the Ministry for Mining Development was responsible for decoration and that other institutions were responsible for the installation of portable bathrooms, visual displays, barriers, awnings, and refreshments. In page six of the PSUV plan it is also written that the people that surrounded the stage from which Maduro was speaking were militias dressed as civilians.[130][131]
Results
By the time polls were to officially close at 6:00pm VST, it was reported by a CNE source that voter turnout was only 32.3%,[132] the lowest turnout in Venezuela's modern democratic history since the 1958 coup d'état.[4] CNE data would later show that turnout was 46.1%, a record low.[18]
Both Falcón and Bertucci rejected the results, stating that there were too many irregularities.[18] As the results were read by the CNE, many Venezuelans throughout Caracas began a cacerolazo protest against Maduro, with some beginning to barricade streets.[133]
Domestic
The Democratic Unity Roundtable (MUD) opposition coalition confirmed on 21 February 2018 that it would not participate in the elections since they "do not comply with democratic conditions or guarantees".[142] Henri Falcon, former Lara State Governor and opposition presidential candidate, lambasted the Democratic Unity Roundtable for their boycott of the elections and stated: "You will disappear as politicians and as parties for not understanding the dynamics of a country that demands solutions and not conflict", and also stated, "four parties (those participating in the elections) believe in national unity".[143]
Movimiento Estudiantil rejected the elections, saying they were called "outside of the lapses established by our Carta Magna" and stated that it they were "requested by an unconstitutional, incompetent body erected on the blood of hundreds of Venezuelans", considering that the elections are not designed for the Venezuelan public, but were created to "perpetuate the hell and the misery lived today". The movement stated that it would not participate in the process and demanded political leaders not to endorse the process.[144][145]
The NGO Foro Penal decided not to endorse the announcement of the presidential elections based on the fact that the Constituent Assembly does not have constitutional faculties to summon an election because it is only empowered to draft a new constitution, assuring that it would be seizing functions from other political bodies when calling for elections and that the announcement is violating the right of Venezuelans to choose in valid and fair conditions attached to the constitution.[146] Both the Episcopal Conference of Venezuela and the Venezuelan Federation of Chambers of Commerce (Fedecámaras) rejected and asked to postpone the elections in statements published on the week of the elections.[147][148] The head of the Caracas-based Global Observatory of Communication and Democracy Griselda Colina and former Director of the Carter Center's Americas Program Dr Jennifer McCoy concluded that Maduro's victory could not be considered democratic due to a wide range of failings in prevailing electoral conditions.[149]
International
Supranational bodies
United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights Zeid Ra'ad al-Hussein noted that his office had concerns that reports of extrajudicial killings cast doubts on fairness, stating "this context does not in any way fulfill minimal conditions for free and credible elections".[39] On 23 March 2018 a United Nations official informed that the organization would not offer electoral assistance in the elections, without explaining the motives. Spokesperson Farhan Haq stated that a letter was sent to Venezuelan authorities regarding the request of electoral experts, but did not explain the content.[151]
Prior to the elections, the Lima Group, with its participating nations of Argentina, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Guyana, Honduras, Mexico, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, and Saint Lucia, stated that they would not recognize the results of the presidential elections due to the perceived lack of transparency.[152] With the support of the Lima Group, the Peruvian foreign minister Cayetana Aljovín [es] informed that the presence of President Maduro in the 8th Summit of the Americas "would not be welcome in said encounter", quoting the 2001 Quebec Declaration, which states that "the rupture of democracy constitutes an insuperable obstacle for the participation of a State in the Summit of the Americas".[153] After the vote, Canada joined the group in condemning the election as fraudulent.[154]
On 23 February 2018, at a special session supported by its Secretary General Luis Almagro, the Permanent Council of the Organization of American States (OAS) adopted a resolution that asks the Venezuelan government to reconsider the announcement of the presidential elections and to present a new electoral schedule to make possible the performance of elections with all the guarantees needed. The 19 countries that supported the resolution were Argentina, Bahamas, Barbados, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Guyana, Honduras, Jamaica, Mexico, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Saint Lucia, the United States, and Uruguay.[155][156] Following a meeting held on 10 May, the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights (IACHR) published a document stating that the process did not meet international standards, that the CNE electoral body was biased and that the "hurried announcement ... has seriously affected the warranty of the universal vote for the new voters and Venezuelans abroad", concluding that the election would not meet "the minimal conditions needed for the realization of free, fair and reliable elections in Venezuela".[157][158][159]
On 8 February, the European Parliament, with 480 votes in favor, 51 against, and 70 abstentions, adopted a resolution demanding sanctions against President Nicolás Maduro, Vice President Tareck el Aissami, and other officials, considering them "responsible for the aggravation of the crisis.[160][161] The European Union, through the European Parliament, also ruled that it would not recognize the 20 May elections and called the electoral process "fraudulent".[12] On 3 May 2018, the European Parliament again called for the immediate suspension of the 20 May election until "free and fair elections were held on a schedule agreed upon with the participation of all relevant actors and political parties".[13]
Governments
The governments of Argentina,[162] Canada,[163] Chile,[164] Colombia,[152] Costa Rica,[165] France,[166] Jamaica,[167] Panama,[168] Paraguay,[169] Spain,[170] the United States[161] and Uruguay[171] directly criticized the electoral process in various ways, condemning the disqualification and imprisonment of MUD individuals, the lack of advanced notice for the election date and the bias of electoral bodies, describing such actions by the Venezuelan government antidemocratic.[172][173] Remaining member governments representing countries from the Lima Group, including Brazil, Guatemala, Guyana, Honduras, Mexico, Peru, and Saint Lucia, denounced the elections in a joint statement through declarations made by the organization.[152]
Meanwhile, the governments of Antigua and Barbuda,[174] Bolivia,[175] Cuba,[176][177] Nicaragua,[178] North Korea[179] and Russia[180][181] reacted to the call for elections positively, showing support for the process and demanded that there be no intervention.
More at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_V...ntial_election
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
The NAZIs were trying to create a compromise to gain the "advantages" of both communism and capitalism but they were absolutely socialists.
They Nationalized some industries and entwined the "private" companies with the government in industries they didn't nationalize.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
And when you cannot convince them with your word, just round em up shoot the natives up and jack their country. I have heard people tell me that the Shah was also good for Iran, it was working until the dastardly Ayotollahs messed with our plans.
What industry is that? give me specifics please and stop BSing me.The NAZIs were trying to create a compromise to gain the "advantages" of both communism and capitalism but they were absolutely socialists.
They Nationalized some industries and entwined the "private" companies with the government in industries they didn't nationalize.
Not sure if this is true in Nazi Germany but this can also be said about the US and its many industries. The banks, the oil industry, the MIC, the car companies etc etc. This doesn't mean we are a socialist country.entwined the "private" companies with the government in industries they didn't nationalize.
My purpose today is to make just two main points: (1) To show why Nazi Germany was a socialist state, not a capitalist one. And (2) to show why socialism, understood as an economic system based on government ownership of the means of production, positively requires a totalitarian dictatorship.
The identification of Nazi Germany as a socialist state was one of the many great contributions of Ludwig von Mises.
When one remembers that the word "Nazi" was an abbreviation for "der Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiters Partei — in English translation: the National Socialist German Workers' Party — Mises's identification might not appear all that noteworthy. For what should one expect the economic system of a country ruled by a party with "socialist" in its name to be but socialism?
Nevertheless, apart from Mises and his readers, practically no one thinks of Nazi Germany as a socialist state. It is far more common to believe that it represented a form of capitalism, which is what the Communists and all other Marxists have claimed.
The basis of the claim that Nazi Germany was capitalist was the fact that most industries in Nazi Germany appeared to be left in private hands.
What Mises identified was that private ownership of the means of production existed in name only under the Nazis and that the actual substance of ownership of the means of production resided in the German government. For it was the German government and not the nominal private owners that exercised all of the substantive powers of ownership: it, not the nominal private owners, decided what was to be produced, in what quantity, by what methods, and to whom it was to be distributed, as well as what prices would be charged and what wages would be paid, and what dividends or other income the nominal private owners would be permitted to receive. The position of the alleged private owners, Mises showed, was reduced essentially to that of government pensioners.
De facto government ownership of the means of production, as Mises termed it, was logically implied by such fundamental collectivist principles embraced by the Nazis as that the common good comes before the private good and the individual exists as a means to the ends of the State. If the individual is a means to the ends of the State, so too, of course, is his property. Just as he is owned by the State, his property is also owned by the State.
But what specifically established de facto socialism in Nazi Germany was the introduction of price and wage controls in 1936. These were imposed in response to the inflation of the money supply carried out by the regime from the time of its coming to power in early 1933. The Nazi regime inflated the money supply as the means of financing the vast increase in government spending required by its programs of public works, subsidies, and rearmament. The price and wage controls were imposed in response to the rise in prices that began to result from the inflation.
The effect of the combination of inflation and price and wage controls is shortages, that is, a situation in which the quantities of goods people attempt to buy exceed the quantities available for sale.
Shortages, in turn, result in economic chaos. It's not only that consumers who show up in stores early in the day are in a position to buy up all the stocks of goods and leave customers who arrive later, with nothing — a situation to which governments typically respond by imposing rationing. Shortages result in chaos throughout the economic system. They introduce randomness in the distribution of supplies between geographical areas, in the allocation of a factor of production among its different products, in the allocation of labor and capital among the different branches of the economic system.
In the face of the combination of price controls and shortages, the effect of a decrease in the supply of an item is not, as it would be in a free market, to raise its price and increase its profitability, thereby operating to stop the decrease in supply, or reverse it if it has gone too far. Price control prohibits the rise in price and thus the increase in profitability. At the same time, the shortages caused by price controls prevent increases in supply from reducing price and profitability. When there is a shortage, the effect of an increase in supply is merely a reduction in the severity of the shortage. Only when the shortage is totally eliminated does an increase in supply necessitate a decrease in price and bring about a decrease in profitability.
As a result, the combination of price controls and shortages makes possible random movements of supply without any effect on price and profitability. In this situation, the production of the most trivial and unimportant goods, even pet rocks, can be expanded at the expense of the production of the most urgently needed and important goods, such as life-saving medicines, with no effect on the price or profitability of either good. Price controls would prevent the production of the medicines from becoming more profitable as their supply decreased, while a shortage even of pet rocks prevented their production from becoming less profitable as their supply increased.
As Mises showed, to cope with such unintended effects of its price controls, the government must either abolish the price controls or add further measures, namely, precisely the control over what is produced, in what quantity, by what methods, and to whom it is distributed, which I referred to earlier. The combination of price controls with this further set of controls constitutes the de facto socialization of the economic system. For it means that the government then exercises all of the substantive powers of ownership.
This was the socialism instituted by the Nazis. And Mises calls it socialism on the German or Nazi pattern, in contrast to the more obvious socialism of the Soviets, which he calls socialism on the Russian or Bolshevik pattern.
Of course, socialism does not end the chaos caused by the destruction of the price system. It perpetuates it. And if it is introduced without the prior existence of price controls, its effect is to inaugurate that very chaos. This is because socialism is not actually a positive economic system. It is merely the negation of capitalism and its price system. As such, the essential nature of socialism is one and the same as the economic chaos resulting from the destruction of the price system by price and wage controls. (I want to point out that Bolshevik-style socialism's imposition of a system of production quotas, with incentives everywhere to exceed the quotas, is a sure formula for universal shortages, just as exist under all around price and wage controls.)
At most, socialism merely changes the direction of the chaos. The government's control over production may make possible a greater production of some goods of special importance to itself, but it does so only at the expense of wreaking havoc throughout the rest of the economic system. This is because the government has no way of knowing the effects on the rest of the economic system of its securing the production of the goods to which it attaches special importance.
More at: https://mises.org/library/why-nazism...m-totalitarian
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
The praising of Pinochet.
The first 9/11, where a military leader did not like the results of an election, so with the help of the CIA and the Chicago school, simply bombed the Chilean white house with fighter jets, and then claimed Allende committed suicide, and then disappeared thousands of young socialists and communists. Only when the mothers found out it happened to their sons, did they start to realize the massive terror Pinochet brought to Chile.
Never forget, 9-11-1973.
Swordsmyth is a nationalist, until the nation chooses a socialist leader, then it's all good, even the "helicopter rides" the right wing fools of The_Donald laugh about.
So essnetially, they privatized a bunch on industries just so they can control said companies without people knowing? What would be the point of doing this? its not like they are trying to pretend that they are a bunch of capitalist.
Sorry but not buying what mises is selling. At least not this time around.
They were attempting to create a compromise between capitalism and communism.
Go ahead and deny reality just because it is inconvenient, that is exactly what I would expect of you anyway.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
I am always a nationalist, I absolutely insist that America keep its hands off other countries no matter how stupid they act.
But I also recognize that people have a right to rebel against communism and to kill the communists that attempt to enslave them.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
I'm not really a violent person. As much as I'd like to say heck yeah, that would make me uncomfortable. But we all know that they won't go quietly into that good night.
Actually, they all did go quietly into the night. disappeared. Their mothers left wondering what happened, until it became so common that the mothers began to talk to each other, network, and then discover that their sons had been murdered by pinochet... ..for wrongthink. It is quite an interesting tale how the mothers networked, and eventually, exposed Pinochet's truly murderous ways.
Not murderous like swordsmyth uses the term to win an argument, but truly murderous.
And it is really interesting to see Swordsmyth et al call Maduro and Chavez "murderous regimes" because of... no murders..., yet praising Pinochet's infamous "helicopter rides" which were given to young men simply for refusing to change their minds about what they felt was the correct path for their country's future. The helicopter rides were not for people planning violence or any of that, it was simply for wrong think.
And really, they should not have gone quietly into the night. The elected a president. Then that was taken away from them through force of arms with the backing of a foreign nation.
Electing a socialist for a president is not justification for a coup and tyranny. It's not the end of the world. This happens time and time again, socialist elected in foreign country, US ends democracy, installs puppet. Just like the US is trying in Venezuela now by proclaiming some no-name dude as legit president.
The future of Chileans (Allende), Iranians (Mossadegh), Venezuela (Chavez), Syria (Assad) etc belong to the peoples of that country. Not you, swordsmyth, and all the others with opinions on places and times they know diddly squat about.
Last edited by UWDude; 01-29-2019 at 03:58 AM.
I'm unclear on what has happened in this thread, can someone help explain to me what is going on here?
I thought socialism was a bad thing as far as free markets and liberty go, but this thread is giving me an alternate impression. Any clarifications would be appreciated.
Also, is it okay if I have an opinion about another country, but have zero interest in intervening in said country using force?
Couldn't agree more, except that the story goes like this, foreign country with natural resources a US/western company is exploiting elects a socialist leader, the places sanctions/embargo on the country to undermine their economy, ends democracy, installs puppet......... We have Chile, Iran, Libya, Cuba, Syria, Venezuela for examples. My question is this, if socialism was the cancer killing economic system some people think it is, then you don't have to undermine it with economic warfare. Just sit back and wait for it to collapse itself.
The confusion is there because your reading comprehension is seriously lacking. Socialism is a less effective way of running an economy, that doesn't mean that the US has the right to interfere in countries trying this system.
Yes and nobody in the thread disagrees with this opinion. Non interventionism is much a libertarian position as capitalism.
A blind mass copy paste of an entire wall of Washington social media propaganda post at U.S. based wikipedia, which itself does nto even sa what SS proffers it for.
Ever wonder people get duped by U.S. media and deep state propaganda lies over and over and over again. Folks that openly recognize the U.S., media agenda, and lies as post on other threads such as Covington, Russiagate, confirming the agenda and the lying. Yet turn around and willfully swallow the loads of lies on the latest mainstream media deep state mouthpieces.
Even lies about things that are readily verifiable. For instance claiming none of the opposition participated. Yet the main opposition candidate Falcon did participate. So did Bertucci. Six candidates in total and 16 political parties. The National Constituent Assembly approved the early election only after opposition sought a recall election. Even those that chose not to participate - that was their choice. Accept it.
The Wikipedia focuses on the MUD "Democratic Unity" candidate Lopez being disqualified due to the fact he is a felon serving a 14 year sentence. MUD is a coalition weighted heavily to extreme leftists - more left than Maduro - such as Red Flag, Radical Cause, Movement for Socialism, Social Democracy, Movement Towards Socialism, etc. Their opposition is that Maduro is not leftist-socialist enough. Essentially Washington is arguing that the election should have had even more leftists socialists.
Throughout all of this Washington NGO's like NED were busy stirring the pot, funding and aiding opposition groups, and directly interfering in Venezuela's elections. More.
Again
- It was the opposition that called for the early election.
- It was held prior to January 2019 as required by the Constitution.
- Yes some opposition elements decided nto to participate, but hat is there choice. Voting is not mandatory in Venezuela.
- Sixteen , 16, political parties did participate in the election.
- Maduro not only won, but won by a wide margin - 67%.
- The election was observed by 14 electoral commissions from eight countries; two technical electoral missions; 18 journalist representatives from around the world; and a representative form the European Parliament
- The election system is automated, audited before, during, and after the elections. The system uses fingerprint verification to avoid double votings and guarantees the principle of “one voter, one vote”.
- Eighteen audits were conducted on the automated system. The representatives of opposition candidate Henri Falcón participated in all 18 audits and signed confirming conformity with the voting system.
- The audits are public and broadcast live by the National Election Council’s TV channel. Once the audits are done, the system locks, and the only way of accessing it again is by introducing simultaneously the passwords that each political organisation has.
- Not a single candidate, let alone an opposition candidate that participated in the electoral process contested the results.
- Despite the US mainstream media propaganda campaign, no proof of any fraud has been presented. No evidence of any fraud has been presented, just allegations and allegations, allegations and claims without evidence.
But the real issue, is regardless of what anyone thinks of the elections, it is still not Washington' or Trump's or Obama's place to be deciding Venezuela's elections ro interfering in its internal elections.
Such wall of text copy paste deserves no response really, other than a copy paste. Here is a link response in lieu of copy paste.
Last edited by AZJoe; 01-29-2019 at 10:23 AM.
"Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
"War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.
When I said "they" I meant the communists. They won't ever sit back and stop coming. Death is literally the only thing that does stop them, but Pinochet was smart enough not to make them martyrs.
,And it is really interesting to see Swordsmyth et al call Maduro and Chavez "murderous regimes" because of... no murders...
Maduro's troops have indeed killed protestors.
If they believed socialism was best for the nation, they were indeed planning violence.yet praising Pinochet's infamous "helicopter rides" which were given to young men simply for refusing to change their minds about what they felt was the correct path for their country's future. The helicopter rides were not for people planning violence or any of that, it was simply for wrong think.Screw that. I want them all dead. I don't have the heart for war, but I'm not support their right to survive in any way shape or form.
And really, they should not have gone quietly into the night. The elected a president. Then that was taken away from them through force of arms with the backing of a foreign nation.
Electing a socialist for a president is not justification for a coup and tyranny. It's not the end of the world. This happens time and time again, socialist elected in foreign country, US ends democracy, installs puppet. Just like the US is trying in Venezuela now by proclaiming some no-name dude as legit president.
The future of Chileans (Allende), Iranians (Mossadegh), Venezuela (Chavez), Syria (Assad) etc belong to the peoples of that country. Not you, swordsmyth, and all the others with opinions on places and times they know diddly squat about.
Oh, but do you believe the lies coming out of the left side of the government's mouth, or the right side?? That's the important issue in SS's estimation. Without that, how would he know which government lies to believe???
"And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat
"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire
Speaking of propaganda.....those are some lively cherries you've picked there. I don't have time to go through them all one by one at the moment, but it's laughable to anybody whose read even a little bit about the development of the political and humanitarian crisis there.
And that's the only way Socialism gets funded. Off the backs of the free market.
The wisdom of Swordy:
On bringing the troops home
On fighting corruption:
Fascism Defined
This is laughable - "those facts are cherry picked therefore Angela rejects those facts." This response is supposed to justify regime change, interfering foreign elections, sanctions, violation of national sovereignty, confiscating property of other nations? Give me a break.
Regardless of what anyone thinks of the elections, it is still not Washington' or Trump's or Obama's place to be deciding Venezuela's elections ro interfering in its internal politics. It does not justify regime change, stealing property, devastating sanctions, interfering in foreign elections, NGOs like USAID and NED manipulation of other nations internal election and politics, destruction of national sovereignty, etc.
Yes socialism is bad. I'd like to see Macron go and half the heads of Europe, but it is not our place to use force to do so there or Venezuela or anywhere. The proper way to fight Socialism is via free market. Unfortunately Washington, the lover of dictators, is anti-free market and thus resorts to simple minded brute force. Its about as anti-free market a response as one can get.
The response to socialism is free market. Washington's proper response would be to implement free market - open trade and let it flow. Let's actually try some free market here in the U.S. - cut government, cut taxes, cut foreign interventionist spending boondoggles, cut sanctions, cut regulation a, cut licensing, eliminate the deficit, stop the boondoggles, open trade, get out of the way. That is the proper response to socialism elsewhere.
Last edited by AZJoe; 01-29-2019 at 11:27 AM.
"Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
"War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.
Wait a minute, have you flipped again? Is Trump the savior or not?
"The Patriarch"
The lad is a a riddle,wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma.
ETA: Or he's simply a troll.
Last edited by Cap; 01-29-2019 at 11:32 AM.
On Trump:
How conservative Republicans can continue to support this arrogant imposter—the man who brags about inflicting the world with the Covid mark of the beast; the man who said, “Take the guns first, go through due process second”; and the man who deliberately played and then set up Stewart Rhodes (of course, Stewart was all too eager to be Trump’s patsy) for an 18-year prison sentence—is truly beyond my comprehension.” Chuck Baldwin
I was just getting used to the trash can man persona.
"The Patriarch"
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