Forum Hero Snowden

[brushfire]

Look at this guy in action

[Brian4Liberty]

What say you to all the Ron Paul people that jumped on the Bernie Bandwagon?

(Yes, there are more than a few of them)

And regardless of where his head is at now, I still consider him a hero, or at least a person who committed heroic acts, and put his very life on the line to expose what he did.

Not that anybody cares of course.

Hate them all. There is no policy gateway between Bernie and Ron. They were never on board with Ron's actual views. It was mostly young people who saw what a disaster Iraq was and Ron was one of the only people to stand against Iraq at potential political cost from the start. This isn't a new position for me. I hated them back in 2009-2012 before I joined the forum and occasionally lurked. I knew they were never real allies. And there were a lot of them.

Now that they are in their 30s with unpaid student loans, they want their human rights, i.e. free $#@!.

I remember when George Bush was POTUS, and the corruption and incompetence on Wall St resulted in a financial crisis. Bush (and Hank Paulson) bailed out Wall St. with taxpayer money. He did the same for automakers. Government bailouts for everyone (except for the peons and mundanes that lost their homes). Privatize gains, socialize losses. “I've abandoned free-market principles to save the free-market system.” Crony corporatism was king.

It was under those circumstances that Ron Paul become very popular. It was the start of the Tea Party movement.

A few years later, Occupy Wall St came to be in protest of the same crony corporatism and resulting inequity. There was overlap with the Ron Paul movement.

Thus, some people who saw the same problems eventually moved to Bernie Sanders. Unfortunately, identifying the problem is one thing, and the proposed solution is another. That is where the divergence starts. Ron Paul has one solution, Bernie has an opposite (and wrong) solution.

Some people gave up on non-government, competitive market solutions, and joined the Bernie ranks. They want government to bail them out (and now give them free stuff), just like what was done for Wall St.

[CCTelander]

Look at this guy in action

That commie loving bastard! Up against the wall with him!

[Brian4Liberty]

...

One could interpret that as saying that Bernie has good intentions (the kind that paves the road to hell). Unfortunately, it seems that Snowden sees Bernie as being sincere, as opposed to seeing Bernie as the deceptive clown and con-man that he really is.

Snowden has a different perspective and is more personally effected than anyone here. We do not have politicians discussing our personal, individual fate. When one politician calls for your death, and another says you should be free, anyone would tend to favor those not calling for your death.

[acptulsa]

My point here is that this is what nearly all the politicians want to control your life - name 10 politicians holding office that dont (Massey donesn't count - dont cheat). Look at the context, and consider what Snowden has done. Consider Snowden's personal circumstance. Commie Bernie had said that Obama should grant Snowden clemency, at a time when most people were calling for the assassination/execution of Snowden... If you had these circumstances, you'd be looking for any way to broaden your base of support, and influence government. Also, by your logic, Ron Paul's comments towards, and coalition with Dennis Kucinich might be grounds to rename RPF - Dr Paul has said some fantastic things about Dennis... I happen to think that Carter was/is an amazing man - perhaps the last real human being to hold the presidential office in >80 years. Does that make me a commie lover? I dont think so - I disagree with almost all of Carter's methods, but I do share his compassion for his fellow man.



I know who Bernie is - I also know who Trump is, and the argument against communism is wasted on me - I hate communism with an absolute passion, I need not, and cannot, be convinced any further.

While I could not be convinced to support communism, I'm still willing to acknowledge the impact that Ed Snowden has had, and his personal reasons for backing Bernie. Going behind that, I can also see that if Ed Snowden draws more crowds towards Bernie, Ed's story and exposure of illegal/unconstitutional actions of our government makes my job a lot easier. Someone who adores communism and its progressive sister (socialism) must acknowledge the evil that the same government they entrust with their liberty is capable of, and how such a government treats honest people (just like how the DNC fcked over Bernie). Prior to Snowden, my arguments were dismissed as conspiracy - now the surveillance state is reality in the minds of 90% of the people out there, and almost every Bernie supporter acknowledges how the DNC fked over Bernie.

Hows that for 3d chess..? I'll send a 2 cent royalty to that a$$hat trump - check's in the mail.

I remember when George Bush was POTUS, and the corruption and incompetence on Wall St resulted in a financial crisis. Bush (and Hank Paulson) bailed out Wall St. with taxpayer money. He did the same for automakers. Government bailouts for everyone (except for the peons and mundanes that lost their homes). Privatize gains, socialize losses. “I've abandoned free-market principles to save the free-market system.” Crony corporatism was king.

It was under those circumstances that Ron Paul become very popular. It was the start of the Tea Party movement.

A few years later, Occupy Wall St came to be in protest of the same crony corporatism and resulting inequity. There was overlap with the Ron Paul movement.

Thus, some people who saw the same problems eventually moved to Bernie Sanders. Unfortunately, identifying the problem is one thing, and the proposed solution is another. That is where the divergence starts. Ron Paul has one solution, Bernie has an opposite (and wrong) solution.

Some people gave up on non-government, competitive market solutions, and joined the Bernie ranks. They want government to bail them out (and now give them free stuff), just like what was done for Wall St.

All of that in spades.

But to me, it's simpler than that. I'm not looking for an orange dick to suck. I don't need a hero whose gray area I can agree with eighty percent of the time, and defend the twenty percent that's dead wrong with bloodthirsty intensity just to prove I'm a Team Player.

To me, a hero isn't a Phenomenon to Latch Onto. A hero isn't someone whose gray areas strike a balance I approve of. A hero is someone who does something heroic. And I can approve of their heroism without turning everything that dribbles from their mouths into a canon of dogma.

Ron Paul is one sort of hero to me. Call him an ideological model. Snowden is another. Ron Paul was never dumb enough to make the kind of sacrifice Snowden made.

[Brian4Liberty]

Look at this guy in action

Nice. Believe it or not, I typed out my take below before watching that clip. That’s why I like Ron, he always agrees with me.

I remember when George Bush was POTUS, and the corruption and incompetence on Wall St resulted in a financial crisis. Bush (and Hank Paulson) bailed out Wall St. with taxpayer money. He did the same for automakers. Government bailouts for everyone (except for the peons and mundanes that lost their homes). Privatize gains, socialize losses. “I've abandoned free-market principles to save the free-market system.” Crony corporatism was king.

It was under those circumstances that Ron Paul become very popular. It was the start of the Tea Party movement.

A few years later, Occupy Wall St came to be in protest of the same crony corporatism and resulting inequity. There was overlap with the Ron Paul movement.

Thus, some people who saw the same problems eventually moved to Bernie Sanders. Unfortunately, identifying the problem is one thing, and the proposed solution is another. That is where the divergence starts. Ron Paul has one solution, Bernie has an opposite (and wrong) solution.

Some people gave up on non-government, competitive market solutions, and joined the Bernie ranks. They want government to bail them out (and now give them free stuff), just like what was done for Wall St.

[Anti Globalist]

I hope Snowden doesn't seriously think that if Bernie somehow becomes president hes gonna be allowed to come back to the US. Sanders said during his last campaign that Snowden should face some sort of punishment for what he did. Ron Paul doesn't want him to have any punishment whatsoever. He just wants him to return to the US and be seen as a hero and not have to worry about being prosecuted.

[brushfire]

Nice. Believe it or not, I typed out my take below before watching that clip. That’s why I like Ron, he always agrees with me.

I believe ya - and he would say you always agree with him

All of that in spades.

But to me, it's simpler than that... A hero isn't someone whose gray areas strike a balance I approve of. A hero is someone who does something heroic. And I can approve of their heroism without turning everything that dribbles from their mouths into a canon of dogma...

Where were you earlier? You could have saved me a bunch of typing.

[specsaregood]

Look at this guy in action

Here is a better video.

When we were on the verge of passing a real audit the fed bill; Bernie spiked it and gave the fed what they wanted: window dressing.

[Brian4Liberty]

Here is a better video.

When we were on the verge of passing a real audit the fed bill; Bernie spiked it and gave the fed what they wanted: window dressing.

Yep, there is where Snowden is wrong. Never trust Bolshevik Bernie the Clown.

[Superfluous Man]

"Anybody who thinks Bernie is a decent person should be executed for having that opinion! It's not possible for a person who thinks Bernie is a decent person to do anything good! And if they ever did something that appeared to be good at first, the fact that they think Bernie is a decent person is all the evidence we need to prove that the apparently good thing they did must have been something evil in disguise!"

The fine print: "Also, I never supported Snowden in the first place, since I think the American intelligence agencies are good and necessary for protecting our freedoms, and they need to be able to keep secret the ways they spy on us to protect those freedoms, and as a totally unrelated side note I'm also a big Trump supporter."

[Krugminator2]

and as a totally unrelated side note I'm also a big Trump supporter."

You take from my posts where 80%+ are critical of him that I am a big Trump supporter?

Have fewer opinions.

[Anti Federalist]

You take from my posts where 80%+ are critical of him that I am a big Trump supporter?

Have fewer opinions.

Orange Man Bad!!!

[acptulsa]

Orange Man Bad!!!

A refrain often heard by anyone who has the temerity to say, orange man a totally typical, average president.

[Krugminator2]

Orange Man Bad!!!

When he gets things right like judges, tax cuts, deregulation, slightly less militarism, taking on the press I say it.

When he gets things wrong like tariffs, compulsively lying, behaving like a buffoon, chumming up to Saudi Arabia, massive budget increases, agricultural subsidies, ousting and trying to oust good members of Congress I get involved in those threads.

It isn't an all bad or all good thing with Trump.

[Stratovarious]

I hope Snowden doesn't seriously think that if Bernie somehow becomes president hes gonna be allowed to come back to the US. Sanders said during his last campaign that Snowden should face some sort of punishment for what he did. Ron Paul doesn't want him to have any punishment whatsoever. He just wants him to return to the US and be seen as a hero and not have to worry about being prosecuted.

This is the first time I've seen you write a paragraph, nice....

Snowden shouldn't hold his breath, I don't see Bernie going anywhere, and for anyone that thinks (snowden?) that
Bernie is honest and sincere, wow now, that's one hell of a stretch, just look how fast he jumped into Hillary's lap
when he was bumped, considering his venomous prior attacks and apparent hatred for everything that Hillary was and stood for.

[Stratovarious]

Look at this guy in action

Does he not look like the perfect caricature of Hitler, a satirical iteration.

[Swordsmyth]

I remember when George Bush was POTUS, and the corruption and incompetence on Wall St resulted in a financial crisis. Bush (and Hank Paulson) bailed out Wall St. with taxpayer money. He did the same for automakers. Government bailouts for everyone (except for the peons and mundanes that lost their homes). Privatize gains, socialize losses. “I've abandoned free-market principles to save the free-market system.” Crony corporatism was king.

It was under those circumstances that Ron Paul become very popular. It was the start of the Tea Party movement.

A few years later, Occupy Wall St came to be in protest of the same crony corporatism and resulting inequity. There was overlap with the Ron Paul movement.

Thus, some people who saw the same problems eventually moved to Bernie Sanders. Unfortunately, identifying the problem is one thing, and the proposed solution is another. That is where the divergence starts. Ron Paul has one solution, Bernie has an opposite (and wrong) solution.

Some people gave up on non-government, competitive market solutions, and joined the Bernie ranks. They want government to bail them out (and now give them free stuff), just like what was done for Wall St.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...comment_stream

Dr. Ron Paul:

A true supporter of mine would never have become much of a supporter for Sanders. But considering age and experience and education I can see why people are looking around. Pursuing the freedom message in the best manner possible is the way to win the hearts and minds of the people. We do our best with our daily Ron Paul Liberty Report and the Ron Paul Institute.

[Krugminator2]

Just "Heroic" Edward Snowden pushing for a government takeover of the internet.

[brushfire]

Here is a better video.

When we were on the verge of passing a real audit the fed bill; Bernie spiked it and gave the fed what they wanted: window dressing.

Again - I'm not a Bernie fan - I need not be convinced. I'd thought we were arguing over whether Snowden was a hero or not - folks seem to be fixated on Bernie. I dont consider Bernie a hero - I believe the guy as a moron.

Just curious, anyone here know about trump being registered as a democrat? Anyone know about trump endorsing democrats, or supporting gun control? How about how trump contributed to the clintons (100k to crooked hillary alone)? Why so much leniency on the orange man? Snowden has done more for this country than trump has.

[Swordsmyth]

Again - I'm not a Bernie fan - I need not be convinced. I'd thought we were arguing over whether Snowden was a hero or not - folks seem to be fixated on Bernie. I dont consider Bernie a hero - I believe the guy as a moron.

Just curious, anyone here know about trump being registered as a democrat? Anyone know about trump endorsing democrats, or supporting gun control? How about how trump contributed to the clintons (100k to crooked hillary alone)? Why so much leniency on the orange man? Snowden has done more for this country than trump has.

Trump has done more than Snowden and I didn't trust him or even have an open mind about him until he did, I kept an open mind about Snowden because of what he did but endorsing the coup against Trump is the last straw.

An enemy can do something good for you when your interests happen to align.

[brushfire]

Trump has done more than Snowden and I didn't trust him or even have an open mind about him until he did, I kept an open mind about Snowden because of what he did but endorsing the coup against Trump is the last straw.

An enemy can do something good for you when your interests happen to align.

Is your post acknowledging trumps actions - his past? I'm not sure if you're saying that you were against trump at one point, or if you were against Snowden.

It is clear to me, however, that you will not tolerate anyone who opposes trump.

[Swordsmyth]

Is your post acknowledging trumps actions - his past? I'm not sure if you're saying that you were against trump at one point, or if you were against Snowden.

It is clear to me, however, that you will not tolerate anyone who opposes trump.

Trump's actions in the past before he became POTUS made little difference and have been completely overshadowed by his good acts as POTUS.
Snowden's single good act that also happened to benefit the CIA in its turf war with the NSA has been completely overshadowed by his support of the treasonous CIA coup.

I tolerate those who disagree with me and oppose Trump on many issues, I do not tolerate anyone who endorses the treasonous CIA coup.

The past only matters so much, it's where you are and where you are heading that count the most:

Ezekiel
Chapter 33

12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
15 If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
16 None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.
17 Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal.
18 When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.
19 But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.
20 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways.

[specsaregood]

Snowden has done more for this country than trump has.

Has he? Please list the good things that have come from snowdens actions. there are quite a few on the trump list. And I say this.as somebody that believes snowden deserves whistleblower protections.

[Brian4Liberty]

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...comment_stream

Dr. Ron Paul:

A true supporter of mine would never have become much of a supporter for Sanders. But considering age and experience and education I can see why people are looking around. Pursuing the freedom message in the best manner possible is the way to win the hearts and minds of the people. We do our best with our daily Ron Paul Liberty Report and the Ron Paul Institute.

Agree. For someone to go from supporting Ron Paul to supporting Bernie Sanders, they would have had to support Ron only for some very specific reasons. Opposition to Wall Street corruption and crony corporatism, and opposition to wars might be the overlap. But Bernie the Clown goes further than just opposition to corruption, and he goes full-blown communist in opposition to competitive capitalism. Government is his solution to everything which is completely the opposite of what Ron Paul advocates. And a prudent person should question Bernie's true commitment to opposition to globalism and interventionism. Communists like Bernie always have a hidden agenda. Eventually going global is part of that agenda.

[oyarde]

Sorry . I am going t have to ask Danke to see if Josh can check the posting history of many of the participants in this thread.

[Swordsmyth]

Sorry . I am going t have to ask Danke to see if Josh can check the posting history of many of the participants in this thread.

Or @TheTexan.

[Swordsmyth]

Bump