Thomas Massie on the Venezuela Crisis

[Todd]

Whether you like Maduro or not. This is an honest assessment:

Maduro is no fool: he knows that the people are not interested in being ruled by foreign masters. The same nationalist sentiment that’s sweeping the world, from France to Grand Fenwick, resists foreign “liberation” – especially coming from the Americans. The Venezuelans are not about to surrender an inch of their sovereignty even if it means a permanent lack of toilet paper.

[invisible]

Whether you like Maduro or not. This is an honest assessment:

This isn't about socialism or Maduro, it's about trump's NWO foreign policy.

[Todd]

This isn't about socialism or Maduro, it's about trump's NWO foreign policy.

Try to tell some here that. Some here are all for the Trump intervention.

[ATruepatriot]

This isn't about socialism or Maduro, it's about trump's NWO foreign policy.

Do you mind me asking where you guys get this stuff? Is there some sort of guide book being handed out that has talking points which are exactly 180 degrees from reality?

[invisible]

Are you actually attempting to deny that trump is expanding bush and obomba's NWO regime change foreign policy in Venezuela? Perhaps you'll attempt to deny that the Yemen veto happened, or the hiring of NWO neocons like bolton and abrams?

[ATruepatriot]

Are you actually attempting to deny that trump is expanding bush and obomba's NWO regime change foreign policy in Venezuela? Perhaps you'll attempt to deny that the Yemen veto happened, or the hiring of NWO neocons like bolton and abrams?

When using the term NWO it is much much more complex than this. First we did not start the mess in Venezuela. The NWO and Venezuela did before we ever got involved. And Trump is too trusting in the advice he is being handed which is a huge mistake on his part. I really don't think he is wise enough to understand the full scope of what foreign relations actually consists of but I seriously do not think is making these mistakes with intent. I think he is ill advised, ignorant, and too trusting now at this point in the game. The PTB and MIC never expected someone like him who has no loyal ties to the shadow NWO government and now they are pulling out all the stops to get control of it again after he threw some wrenches in the works fouling their program. If he is guilty of anything concerning the NWO, it would be ignorance of the whole establishment that has been actually running this country since WWII and that they think they are in control.

[Superfluous Man]

And Trump is too trusting in the advice he is being handed which is a huge mistake on his part. I really don't think he is wise enough to understand the full scope of what foreign relations actually consists of but I seriously do not think is making these mistakes with intent.

None of us can read his mind. But his intentions are irrelevant.

His interventionist foreign policy is what it is, and his decision to populate his administration with neoconservatives is what it is.

He doesn't get a pass because somebody thinks he's a good guy deep down.

[juleswin]

I agree- but the problem is NOT a real republic- the problem is TPTB making their own rules. Massie is trying to educate people back to original intent. THAT is a move in the right direction.

The US is a real republic, regardless of what you think about TPTB, any republic end up with avenues by which any right it claims to protect can be violated using mechanisms that are well within its bylaws. The republic is not the problem but rather the attack and/or threatening a country who has done nothing to you. Massie should be preaching for nonintervention not just that we follow the process.

[ATruepatriot]

None of us can read his mind. But his intentions are irrelevant.

His interventionist foreign policy is what it is, and his decision to populate his administration with neoconservatives is what it is.

He doesn't get a pass because somebody thinks he's a good guy deep down.

I think he is just out of his league, As is everyone one in congress on all sides. It is all much bigger and more powerful than any of them, or any of us.

[Schifference]

I think he is just out of his league, As is everyone one in congress on all sides. It is all much bigger and more powerful than any of them, or any of us.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ATruepatriot again.

[ATruepatriot]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ATruepatriot again.

It all needs to be assessed after this persistent prerequisite reality is considered first. It greatly changes the whole perspective and explains quite a bit up front about why things are what they are.

[Swordsmyth]

Why does the wolf eat the sheep? because it can. We are back to square one, I am criticizing the whole idea spread around here that republic is so much better that a democracy when they are virtually the same. All republics that have ever existed are democracies.

Btw, good for him for trying. I just think he is giving minimal effort in the task which sadly is better than anyone else on the republican side. I would like him to speak more like Tulsi, not just ask for the govt to follow the processs but speaking about how wrong the plan is. We should have no business fighting Venezuelans.

Just because a republic is not perfect doesn't mean it isn't better than a democracy.
There is no perfect system and a republic is much better than a democracy.

[Swordsmyth]

Try to tell some here that. Some here are all for the Trump intervention.

I only know of one person here who is for the intervention.

[juleswin]

I only know of one person here who is for the intervention.

The angel of death?

[juleswin]

Just because a republic is not perfect doesn't mean it isn't better than a democracy.
There is no perfect system and a republic is much better than a democracy.

They are one and the same, we have a republic that uses a democratic system to vote on laws and elect its representatives.

[Swordsmyth]

The angel of death?

No, and I'm not going to rat them out, they posted open support for it but if they don't want to repeat it I'm not going to name them.

[Swordsmyth]

They are one and the same, we have a republic that uses a democratic system to vote on laws and elect its representatives.

That doesn't make them one and the same, a republic need not include a democratic element but even if you assume that it does it is more than a democracy.

[ATruepatriot]

They are one and the same, we have a republic that uses a democratic system to vote on laws and elect its representatives.

lol...

[juleswin]

That doesn't make them one and the same, a republic need not include a democratic element but even if you assume that it does it is more than a democracy.

Good point made, so its still a democracy with designed around a republic.

[juleswin]

No, and I'm not going to rat them out, they posted open support for it but if they don't want to repeat it I'm not going to name them.

I think I know who it is.

[TheTexan]

Just because a republic is not perfect doesn't mean it isn't better than a democracy.
There is no perfect system and a republic is much better than a democracy.

It's like way better than a democracy. In a republic you get to vote for people who vote for people who vote. In a democracy, you only get to vote for people who vote.

Two completely different things.

[ATruepatriot]

I think I know who it is.

If you are thinking me... It's not me... I am Anti Hegelian Dialectic, Anti CIA, Anti FBI, Anti MIC, Anti Fed, Anti NWO, (the real one) and Anti War straight up. But the self defense of my Grandchildren's future in this country I take VERY seriously...

[ATruepatriot]

It's like way better than a democracy. In a republic you get to vote for people who vote for people who vote. In a democracy, you only get to vote for people who vote.

Two completely different things.

Lol...

[juleswin]

If you are thinking me... It's not me... I am Anti Hegelian Dialectic, Anti CIA, Anti FBI, Anti MIC, Anti Fed, Anti NWO, (the real one) and Anti War straight up. But the self defense of my Grandchildren's future in this country I take VERY seriously...

Not you, I know you hate socialism to the point that you will probably turn a blind eye to US destruction of the country but I am thinking







All clues to the people I suspect

[ATruepatriot]

Not you, I know you hate socialism to the point that you will probably turn a blind eye to US destruction of the country but I am thinking







All clues to the people I suspect

Socialism bad... Meritocracy good.

[invisible]

I only know of one person here who is for the intervention.

But here:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...7-Here%92s-Why

I oppose foreign intervention but Trump is doing more good than harm and he is certainly doing less harm than any of the viable alternatives would have done or will do.
I've said it many times and I'll say it again: Let me know if a better option comes along.

How can someone say they're against trump's NWO foreign policy, and then claim that it's "doing more good than harm", along with offering the same old lesser of two evils crap? Obviously, no credibility whatsoever.

[Swordsmyth]

But here:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...7-Here%92s-Why


How can someone say they're against trump's NWO foreign policy, and then claim that it's "doing more good than harm", along with offering the same old lesser of two evils crap? Obviously, no credibility whatsoever.

Foreign policy is not the only thing that Trump does and Trump has changed our foreign policy for the better too, under the previous administration or under Hitlery or any of the viable challengers our foreign policy would be mush worse than it is.

[Todd]

Are you actually attempting to deny that trump is expanding bush and obomba's NWO regime change foreign policy in Venezuela? Perhaps you'll attempt to deny that the Yemen veto happened, or the hiring of NWO neocons like bolton and abrams?

Some people have no ability to do institutional analysis and must resort to the slander of "conspiracy". For them it must always be in black and white and written down.

[Todd]

I only know of one person here who is for the intervention.

I'll wager if I made a post or a thread condemning complete intervention in Venezuala it would be met with one of the following: 1. Crickets 2. Condemnation 3. Subtle "meh"....or posts trying to counter a complete condemnation with how it's not that bad.....from multiple people on this forum.

[Swordsmyth]

I'll wager if I made a post or a thread condemning complete intervention in Venezuala it would be met with one of the following: 1. Crickets

That is often the result when you state the obvious but I doubt it in this case because there are quite a few posters here who not only agree with you but post nearly obsessively about it.

2. Condemnation

LOL

3. Subtle "meh"....or posts trying to counter a complete condemnation with how it's not that bad.....from multiple people on this forum.

You don't come here often, do you?
You certainly haven't been reading the Venezuela threads.