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Thread: Elon Musk: The chance we are not living in a computer simulation is 'one in billions'

  1. #31
    So, basically Elon Musk is an idiot, and no doubt he will find a way to get some government money from this. The most relevant part of this story is that it illustrates the fact that Americans are having more and more difficulty distinguishing fantasy from reality. Hollywood fantasy and propaganda are willingly swallowed without question.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  3. #32
    Elon Musk? What is that? Some kind of cologne?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    So, basically Elon Musk is an idiot, and no doubt he will find a way to get some government money from this. The most relevant part of this story is that it illustrates the fact that Americans are having more and more difficulty distinguishing fantasy from reality. Hollywood fantasy and propaganda are willingly swallowed without question.
    Where are all of these self-made 'idiot' multi billionaires coming from?

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    Elon Musk? What is that? Some kind of cologne?
    https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?...&hsimp=yhs-004

  7. #35
    I read that Musk is a big fan of Isaac Azimov. Great sci-fi author, but the essence of his writing is about centrally controlling and manipulating the masses by a small group of self-appointed elite.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    I read that Musk is a big fan of Isaac Azimov. Great sci-fi author, but the essence of his writing is about centrally controlling and manipulating the masses by a small group of self-appointed elite.
    Which robots meant well, but ultimately made things worse in their ignorance; and that plot line contrives about oh 0.04% of the Foundation series, were retconned in at the very end of Foundation, and served mostly as support for a "zeroeth law" which itself is questionable, but certainly not under the implication provided above.

  9. #37
    At least nobody talks about Tesla problems.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Which robots meant well, but ultimately made things worse in their ignorance; and that plot line contrives about oh 0.04% of the Foundation series, were retconned in at the very end of Foundation, and served mostly as support for a "zeroeth law" which itself is questionable, but certainly not under the implication provided above.
    Excluding the later merger of the Foundation and Robot universes, it could be seen in the first Foundation trilogy.

    The Foundation was in essence a small group intent upon controlling the future, with an objective of a new central empire under their control. It was a sci-fi reflection of real, contemporary events witnessed by Azimov in his youth.

    The Second Foundation is the smaller, secret group of manipulators. One could only ponder if Azimov based that on reality or not.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by danda View Post
    That said, given that we exist in some reality and do not seem able to change the nature of the reality that our senses perceive, we may as well consider it "real" and get on with our lives.
    America is real.

    I can't speak for the other countries.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Excluding the later merger of the Foundation and Robot universes, it could be seen in the first Foundation trilogy.

    The Foundation was in essence a small group intent upon controlling the future, with an objective of a new central empire under their control. It was a sci-fi reflection of real, contemporary events witnessed by Azimov in his youth.

    The Second Foundation is the smaller, secret group of manipulators. One could only ponder if Azimov based that on reality or not.
    Still not buying the tie in. Asimov certainly did not advocate for elitism, and Hari Seldon's psychohistory was more predictive (like Austrian Economics) than determinative (like Keynesian Economics). IIRC There was some pretty significant discussion within the text that Hari Seldon would not have approved of what later generations had done with psychohistory.

    I do not agree that the Foundation series is in any way, shape, or form "pro-elitist." As I read them they seem a lot more pro-meritocracy and anti-elitist.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    At least nobody talks about Tesla problems.

    Not everything is guaranteed to go well and problem free from the initial get go. <shrug>
    Last edited by Ronin Truth; 06-05-2016 at 02:21 PM.

  15. #42
    Did his mother drop him on his head as an infant and not tell anyone?

    This speculation is pure noise until such time as a plausible theory and convincing supporting evidence say otherwise.

    I could as easily assert that we are living in a giant sperm cell, swimming merrily on our ways toward some wayward egg and once we arrive the universe will wink out of existence.

    Oy.

    ETA and PS: the one thing he says that is dead-nuts on is the bit about the dangers of AI. That was my specialty in grad school and I have worked on a project that would scare the pants off any of you. Overall and on the net, nothing good stands to come of advancing AI technologies.
    Last edited by osan; 06-05-2016 at 02:11 PM.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Excluding the later merger of the Foundation and Robot universes, it could be seen in the first Foundation trilogy.

    The Foundation was in essence a small group intent upon controlling the future, with an objective of a new central empire under their control. It was a sci-fi reflection of real, contemporary events witnessed by Azimov in his youth.

    The Second Foundation is the smaller, secret group of manipulators. One could only ponder if Azimov based that on reality or not.
    The picture he painted of Trantor alone was as depressing as it gets.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The most relevant part of this story is that it illustrates the fact that Americans are having more and more difficulty distinguishing fantasy from reality.
    Not to worry because once the rioting and insurrection begin, those people will discover with great suddenness their latent abilities... or die quickly. No doubt there will be those who choose the latter. C'est la guerre... literally.

    Hollywood fantasy and propaganda are willingly swallowed without question.
    In a sense, I cannot blame them. The prospect of the typical 21st century American life is the love-whelp that resulted with "1984" had a one-nighter with "Brazil" and got her all kinds of knocked up. I know we are "safe" and don't worry about whether we will be able to eat this week, but there is a lot more to proper life than just this. For me, the American life has become a grey and largely lackluster affair once one realizes how quaint and ultimately boring so many things are. Couple that with the ever narrowing menu of meaningful options, vis-à-vis the ever expanding menu of vapid, mawkishly insipid list of those that someone else decided were "OK", and in some ways it becomes a wonder to me that the suicide rate is not far and away higher.

    Perception has been carefully guided such that the average man has come to a set of far lower expectations insofar as his standards are concerned, all the while having launched his expectations and desires for the vapors all around him into a ballistic tracectory. Given the ways in which perception and habit have been altered in the great wad, it is really no wonder that the up and coming generations shrink away from reality and into fantasy. It's really no mystery to me at all.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Not to worry because once the rioting and insurrection begin, those people will discover with great suddenness their latent abilities... or die quickly. No doubt there will be those who choose the latter. C'est la guerre... literally.



    In a sense, I cannot blame them. The prospect of the typical 21st century American life is the love-whelp that resulted with "1984" had a one-nighter with "Brazil" and got her all kinds of knocked up. I know we are "safe" and don't worry about whether we will be able to eat this week, but there is a lot more to proper life than just this. For me, the American life has become a grey and largely lackluster affair once one realizes how quaint and ultimately boring so many things are. Couple that with the ever narrowing menu of meaningful options, vis-à-vis the ever expanding menu of vapid, mawkishly insipid list of those that someone else decided were "OK", and in some ways it becomes a wonder to me that the suicide rate is not far and away higher.

    Perception has been carefully guided such that the average man has come to a set of far lower expectations insofar as his standards are concerned, all the while having launched his expectations and desires for the vapors all around him into a ballistic tracectory. Given the ways in which perception and habit have been altered in the great wad, it is really no wonder that the up and coming generations shrink away from reality and into fantasy. It's really no mystery to me at all.
    Would you be much more comfortable with one chance in millions?

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Did his mother drop him on his head as an infant and not tell anyone?

    This speculation is pure noise until such time as a plausible theory and convincing supporting evidence say otherwise.

    I could as easily assert that we are living in a giant sperm cell, swimming merrily on our ways toward some wayward egg and once we arrive the universe will wink out of existence.

    Oy.

    .
    I think I like that theory better.
    "The Patriarch"

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The picture he painted of Trantor alone was as depressing as it gets.
    and I believe, intentionally so. We don't blame Orwell because the UK is saturated in nannycams.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    1. The earth is an Oblate Spheroid. - I would say round but, thanks to AF in another thread, I learned the correct term.
    2. Pluto is a planet.
    3. If we are in a video game, I have to wonder about the sanity of the alien overlord who created the people of Walmart.
    Wow, I'll be damned, people actually listen.

    I owe you a rep.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The picture he painted of Trantor alone was as depressing as it gets.
    My take was that Trantor was the height of Empire, and was a good thing, as his main concern was rebuilding it after it fell.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Did his mother drop him on his head as an infant and not tell anyone?

    This speculation is pure noise until such time as a plausible theory and convincing supporting evidence say otherwise.

    I could as easily assert that we are living in a giant sperm cell, swimming merrily on our ways toward some wayward egg and once we arrive the universe will wink out of existence.

    Oy.

    ETA and PS: the one thing he says that is dead-nuts on is the bit about the dangers of AI. That was my specialty in grad school and I have worked on a project that would scare the pants off any of you. Overall and on the net, nothing good stands to come of advancing AI technologies.
    http://www.kurzweilai.net/the-singul...ected-chapters

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    1. The earth is an Oblate Spheroid. - I would say round but, thanks to AF in another thread, I learned the correct term.
    2. Pluto is a planet.
    3. If we are in a video game, I have to wonder about the sanity of the alien overlord who created the people of Walmart.
    No, it's genius. They exist so that even the lowliest of us can be made to feel better when looking at the POW website.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    My take was that Trantor was the height of Empire, and was a good thing, as his main concern was rebuilding it after it fell.
    His protagonists were mainly concerned with rebuilding it. That does not mean that the Foundation universe portrayed such central authority as a good thing. Foundation was a mosaic of so many things, part of which is dystopic. I don't blame the author of a full blown dystopia for advocating the system he is writing about, neither to I attribute such desire when central authority was presented as (mildly) dystopic. The debate at the end, wasn't it? If they should ever have done any of it? It's been a very long time, I devoured them in the 80's.

    I read it as Hari Seldon was the Asimov analog, he develops this science that can predict the future to an astonishing degree. A cabal of elites hijack his science and try to use it to control the galaxy. They ultimately fail, and in the end debate whether they made everything worse by trying.

    So...

    I would think an Asimov fan would at the very least have a mild distrust of centralized authority? Certainly not as flagrant as say Heinlein but I sure picked up on that thread and latched onto it pretty hard as a fourteen year old.

    I didn't see the message of Foundation as to trust central authority, I saw it as a gentle warning that such attempts inevitably fail, and probably make things worse.

  27. #53
    Asimov was a very early "global warming" activist. And his solution to problems facing humanity is a world government. This speech to the American Humanist Association was in 1989, and I'd dare say that this opinion had not changed since his youth, witnessing discussions and lectures on the subject of world governance. There was an actual Foundation of some kind that influenced his writing of Foundation, but I can't remember the name.

    I had written an article on the greenhouse effect. It was a year end article, they wanted me to pick out the most important scientific event of 1988, and I really thought the most important scientific event of 1988 would only be recognized some time in the future when you get a little perspective. But I thought the most interesting scientific event of 1988 was the way everyone started speaking about the greenhouse effect just because there was a hot summer and a drought, when I had been talking about the greenhouse effect for twenty years, at least. And there are other people who talked about it before I did, I didn't invent it. So, I explained what was meant by the greenhouse effect, and I explained that not only were we constantly pumping carbon dioxide into the atmosphere because we're burning fossil fuels, coal and oil and gas, so that the content of the atmosphere as far as carbon dioxide is concerned has been going up steadily, not very rapidly, but steadily ever since 1900, and is continuing to do so. The amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere now is 50% higher than it was in 1900. It's still only a little over three hundredth- 0.035%, which is not enough to bother us as far as breathing is concerned, but it's enough to trap the infrared waves that Earth reflects into space and to raise the temperature of the Earth slightly, and the temperature will keep on going up. And not only are we piling in more and more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, but we're chopping down the forests of the Earth at a great rate, and the forests themselves are the most efficient consumers of carbon dioxide that there are on Earth. Anything that substitutes for the forests, like let us say grain fields, or grasslands, are not going to consume carbon dioxide as efficiently. And if we replace them with desert, which is most likely, it won't absorb the carbon dioxide at all. So that in a sense we are contributing to the greenhouse effect in two ways: by pushing the output of carbon dioxide and inhibiting the input so to speak.


    I said therefore, when Brazil begins to cut down the rainforest of the Amazon, not only is it destroying a habitat for vast numbers of plant and animal life which could be of great use to us, there are perhaps pharmacological products we know nothing about that are produced by these forms of life that if we knew about could advance the art of pharmacology and the practice of medicine, enormously. And we'll never find out, we're going to drive them to extinction. We're going to destroy the ground, because the soil of a rainforest isn't very good, and when you chop it down it doesn't make for good farming, what it makes is for good deserts. And finally, we're going to cut down on absorbing the carbon dioxide and on producing oxygen, so that we are actually tampering with the climate of the Earth and with the very atmosphere that we breathe, so that under those circumstances it is useless for Brazil to say that she can do what she wants with her own, that the rainforest belongs to her and if she wants to cut them down, she can. The rainforest doesn't belong to her, it belongs to humanity, she is merely the custodian of the rainforests.
    ...
    Well, what we need is some sort of federal world government and the only problem is how we manage to do that.
    ...
    http://www.ubcome.com/AsimovSaveCivilization.html
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    and I believe, intentionally so. We don't blame Orwell because the UK is saturated in nannycams.
    Yet Asimov would say that Orwell's concerns were overblown.

    Here's Asimov reviewing 1984 in 1983:
    http://www.newworker.org/ncptrory/1984.htm
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    It's been a very long time, I devoured them in the 80's.
    As did I. I recently re-read the original Foundation trilogy. You might give them another re-read with today's perspective.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Not everything is guaranteed to go well and problem free from the initial get go. <shrug>
    You are right!




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  32. #57

    Tee hee hee hee... I know all about this brand of writing. Wildly speculative at best, based on assumptions that are almost assured not to hold.

    Remember Toffler's "Future Shock"? Turned out to mainly nonsense, though I suppose one could twist meanings in some tortuous manner to make it seem he was some great visionary.

    One of the few such books that turned out to predict well the future was Chris Anderson's "The Long Tail" - a fairly worthwhile read. The author extrapolated based on sound principles, rather than questionable assumptions.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Wow, I'll be damned, people actually listen.

    I owe you a rep.
    I'd give it to her, but M...

    No... NO MR. ANIMAL... I didn't mean it like THAT... NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...

    NO CARRIER
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Yet Asimov would say that Orwell's concerns were overblown.

    Here's Asimov reviewing 1984 in 1983:
    http://www.newworker.org/ncptrory/1984.htm
    I have some measure of respect for Asimov as a writer, but I have to say that this "review" is pure fail. I could not imagine anyone missing the mark this widely. It is, in a word, astonishing.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    I have some measure of respect for Asimov as a writer, but I have to say that this "review" is pure fail. I could not imagine anyone missing the mark this widely. It is, in a word, astonishing.
    Indeed. If you would like to have further insight into the mindset of Asimov, and probably Musk, be sure to read the transcript at the link I posted earlier:

    http://www.ubcome.com/AsimovSaveCivilization.html
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

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