Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 42

Thread: Senate kills Rand's attempts to stop F-16 sales to Pakistan

  1. #1

    Thumbs down Senate kills Rand's attempts to stop F-16 sales to Pakistan

    The vote has almost concluded but there are 70 votes. I will post an article as soon as one is written.



    71 in favor of killing Rand's motion, 24 against killing Rand's motion.

    Senate Joint Resolution 31



    Sponsor: Sen. Paul, Rand [R-KY] (Introduced 02/25/2016)

    This joint resolution prohibits the issuance of a letter of offer with respect to any of the following proposed sales to Pakistan in Transmittal Numbered 15-80, including related defense articles and defense services:

    • 8 F-16 Block 52 aircraft (2 C and 6 D models) with the Fl00-PW-229 increased performance engine,
    • 14 Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems,
    • 8 AN/APG-68(V)9 radars, and
    • 8 ALQ-211(V)9 Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare Suites.



    Here is Rand's official press release:



    Senate Votes on Sen. Rand Paul’s Joint Resolution of Disapproval to Halt Sale of Advanced Military Aircraft to Pakistan

    WASHINGTON, D.C. – By invoking the Arms Export Control Act of 1976, U.S. Senator Rand Paul forced a vote today in the Senate onS.J.Res.31, a joint resolution of disapproval to halt U.S. arms sales to the government of Pakistan. Prior to the vote, Sen. Paul delivered remarks urging his colleagues to support the joint resolution of disapproval, which would have stopped the sale of 8 F-16s and additional technical gear to the Pakistani government.

    24-71 voted in support of Pakistan not receiving F-16s.

    “The U.S. and Pakistani relationship has been a troubled one. Though the government of Pakistan has been considered America’s ally in the fight on terrorism, Pakistan’s behavior would suggest otherwise. While we give them billions of dollars in aid, we are simultaneously aware of their intelligence and military apparatus assisting the Afghan Taliban,” said Sen. Paul.

    “In addition to Pakistan's duplicitous nature, it also has a deplorable human rights record. Pakistan often isolates and unjustly jails religious minorities and Christians to include Pakistani Christian Asa Bibi. Only after an international outcry did Pakistan commutes Asa Bibi’s death sentence. In addition to Pakistan’s support of terrorism and deplorable human rights record, it continues to imprison Dr. Shakil Afridi, who helped the U.S. locate and kill Osama Bin Laden,” Sen. Paul continued.

    Click HERE to read the joint resolution of disapproval in its entirety.

    The video and transcript of Sen. Paul’s remarks can be found below.

    Sen. Paul: Pursuant to the Arms Export Control Act of 1976, I move to discharge the Foreign Relations Committee from further consideration of S. J. Resolution 31 relating to the disapproval of the proposed foreign military sale to the government of Pakistan.

    Presiding Officer: The motion is debatable for up to one hour.

    Sen. Paul: Madam President, I rise in opposition to the American taxpayers being forced to pay for fighter jets for Pakistan. Over $300 million from the American taxpayer will be designated to go to Pakistan to pay for eight new F-16s for Pakistan.

    We've got a lot of problems here in our country, my friends. We've got a lot of things going on in our country that need to be taken care of, and we don't have enough money to be sending it to Pakistan. I can't in good conscience look away as America crumbles at home and politicians tax us to send the money to corrupt and duplicitous regimes abroad.

    When I travel across Kentucky and I see the look of despair in the eyes of out of work coal miners, when I see the anguish in the faces of those who live in constant poverty, I wonder why the establishment of both parties continues to send our money overseas to countries that take our money, take our arms and laugh in our face.

    We've given $15 billion to Pakistan, $15 billion over the last decade. And yet their previous president admits that Pakistan armed, aided, and abetted the Taliban. You remember the Taliban in Afghanistan that harbored and hosted bin Laden for a decade? Pakistan helped them. Pakistan was one of only two countries that recognized the Taliban.

    Why in the world would we be taxing the American people to send this money to Pakistan? You remember when bin Laden escaped? We chased him and he escaped. Where did he go? To Pakistan. He lived for a decade in Pakistan. Where? About a mile away from their military academy. Somehow they missed him there in a 15-foot high walled compound, bin Laden stayed in Pakistan while we funnel billions upon billions of dollars to them.

    Pakistan to this day is said to look away, to not look at the Haqqani network. In fact, it is accused that many members of their government are complicit with the Haqqani network. Who is the Haqqani network? It's a network of terrorists that kill Americans. We have American soldiers dying at the hands of Pakistani terrorists that the government looks the other way.

    General John F. Campbell testified to Congress that the Haqqani network remains the most capable threat to U.S. Forces in Afghanistan, and yet you are asked to send F-16s and good money after bad to a government in Pakistan that looks the other way.

    Pakistan is at best a frenemy, part friend and a lot enemy. If Pakistan truly wants to be our ally, if Pakistan truly wants to help in the war on radical Islam, it should not require a bribe. It should not require the American taxpayer to subsidize arms sales. They already have 70 F-16s. They've got an air force of F-16s. What what would happen if we didn't send them eight more that we're being asked to pay for? Maybe they'd listen. Maybe they would help us. Maybe they would be an honest broker in the fight against terrorism.

    We are $19 trillion in debt. We borrow a million dollars a minute. We don't have any money to send to Pakistan to bribe them to buy planes from us. We don't have the money. We have problems at home. Our infrastructure crumbles at home. We have longstanding poverty at home. We've got problems in America. And we don't have money to borrow the money from China to send it to Pakistan.

    In my state, in Kentucky, we have a dozen counties with unemployment nearly double the national rate. In Mcgauffin county, Kentucky, 12.5% of people are out of work. Those who today will vote to send money to Pakistan need to come with me to Kentucky and they need to come to Mcgauffin county and they need to look people in the face who are out of work in America and explain to them why we should send money to Pakistan.

    We've got people hurting here at home. In Harlan county, the President's war on coal has led to long-standing, double-digit unemployment. In Harlan, Kentucky, people are out of work. People live in poverty, and they don't understand why Congress is sending money to Pakistan.

    In Lesley county, high unemployment prompts their citizens to ask, “why is the government spending billions of dollars for advanced fighter jets for foreigners?” They don't understand it. They can't understand, when they live from day to day, why the government is sending money to Pakistan.

    As I travel Kentucky, I ask my constituents, should America send money and arms to a country that persecutes Christians? I've yet to meet a single voter who wants their tax dollars going to countries that persecute Christians.

    In Pakistan, it is in their constitution that if you criticize the state religion, you can be put to death. Asia Bibi has been on death row for nearly five years. Asia Bibi is a Christian. Her crime: She went to the well to draw water, and the villagers began to stone her. They beat her with sticks until she was bleeding. They continued to stone her, as they chanted "Death! Death to the Christian!" The police finally arrived, and she thought she'd been saved, only to be arrested by the Pakistani police, and there she sits on death row for five years.

    Is it an ally, is it a civilized nation that puts Christians to death for criticizing the state religion? I defy any member of this body, go home, talk to the first voter, go outside the beltway, leave Congress and drive outside the beltway and stop at the first gas station, stop at the first grocery store and ask anybody, Republican, Democrat, Independent, you ask anybody, should we be sending money to a country that persecutes Christians?

    Asia Bibi sits on death row for criticizing the state religion, and your money goes to support her government. What will happen to Pakistan if they don't get eight more F-16s. They'll only have 70 F-16s. Most of the politicians here simply don't care. They don't care whether Pakistan persecutes Christians. They only know one way. The one way is to open our wallet and bleed us dry and hope that someday Pakistan will change its behavior.

    Well, guess what? If you're not strong enough to vote for this resolution, if you think that some kind of cajoling and flattery and nice talk with empty words is going to change the behavior of Pakistan, you've got another thing coming. It's been going on for decades.

    When I forced a vote in the Foreign Relations Committee the to say that countries that put Christians to death for criticizing the state religion – there's about 34 of these countries, a couple dozen of them who receive money from us, American tax dollars going to countries that persecute Christians – when I introduced the amendment to say, guess what? Let's not do it anymore. Any country that has a law that compels a Christian and puts a Christian to death, that country would no longer receive our money.

    You know what the vote was? 18-2 from Washington politicians that keep sending good money after bad, because they say, oh, the moderates there are going to change their minds someday. Well, after they bleed us dry, we've given them $15 billion, and I have seen no evidence of a change of behavior.

    Insolence, arrogance, and people who laugh as they cash our check. Is Pakistan our ally in the war on terror? Well, not only did they help the Taliban that hosted bin Laden for a decade, when finally got bin Laden, we got him with evidence that was given to us by a doctor in Afghanistan. Where is he now? Pakistan has locked him away in a dark, dank prison from which he will probably never arrive out of, from which he will probably never be released.

    Shakil Afridi has essentially been given a life sentence by Pakistan for the crime of helping the United States and helping all civilized nations get to bin Laden. He sat under the noses of the Pakistani government for a decade. We finally got him when Shakil Afridi helped us. People aren't going to continue to help America if we don't help them, if we don't protect our human intelligence, if we don't protect those who are willing to help America. He sits and rots in a prison.

    What message do we send to Pakistan if we send them eight more F-16s and we tell you, the American taxpayer, you're paying for it? What message does that send to Pakistan? The message is Pakistan is, we'll just keep thumbing our nose to America. And we've laugh all the way to the bank as we do nothing to release the Christians on death row or to release the doctor who helped us.

    Should we give planes to a country that imprisons these heroes, heroes who helped and put their life on the line? Today we will vote on whether the American people should foot the bill. I have yet to meet a voter in my state of Kentucky or across America that thinks it's a good idea to send more money to Pakistan.

    We have a $19 trillion debt. We borrower $1 million a minute. We have no money. It's not even a surplus. They say, oh, we're going to influence Pakistan. Or they may rise up. The revolution won't stop the money. The heck it won't. If my resolution becomes law, the eight jets will not go to Pakistan and be subsidized and not one penny of American tax dollars will go to Pakistan.

    We have to borrow money from China to send it to Pakistan. Such a policy is insane and supported by no one outside of Washington. You go anywhere in America and ask them, should we give money, should the taxpayer be forced to give money to Pakistan, a country that persecutes Christians, nobody is for it.

    And yet the vast and out-of-touch establishment in Washington continues to do it. Is it any wonder people are unhappy with Washington? Is it any wonder that Americans are sick and tired of the status quo? Sick and tired of people not listening to them.

    We have no money in the treasury. We are all out of money. This influences nothing other than to tell the Pakistanis they can continue doing what they want.

    I urge my colleagues to vote against subsidized sales of fighter jets to Pakistan, and I reserve the remainder of my time.


    ###

    Last edited by Matt Collins; 03-10-2016 at 01:43 PM.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2
    Not to be an ass but I think that's good. If the MIC can get enough voluntary customers to keep afloat then more power to em.

    eta: The funds the Pakistanis are going to use to buy these weapons is earmarked by the US government specifically for this purchase. Preventing this purchase would've prevented the theft of taxpayers dollars. My understanding and conclusion were wrong on this.
    Last edited by P3ter_Griffin; 03-12-2016 at 01:33 PM.

  4. #3

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by P3ter_Griffin View Post
    Not to be an ass but I think that's good. If the MIC can get enough voluntary customers to keep afloat then more power to em.

    This isn't a market issue, we should not be selling advanced warfare equipment to anyone like Pakistan
    The ultimate minority is the individual. Protect the individual from Democracy and you will protect all groups of individuals
    Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. - Thomas Jefferson
    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

    - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Kotin View Post
    This isn't a market issue, we should not be selling advanced warfare equipment to anyone like Pakistan
    The whole world is ran by crazy people. I don't see any reason to discriminate against Pakistan. Is it the US government selling this weaponry to Pakistan or 'private' MIC businesses bidding contracts?

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by P3ter_Griffin View Post
    The whole world is ran by crazy people. I don't see any reason to discriminate against Pakistan. Is it the US government selling this weaponry to Pakistan or 'private' MIC businesses bidding contracts?
    That I don't know but either way I think it's a bad idea and I agree that we are already doing way too much but we should start obstructing this somewhere.
    The ultimate minority is the individual. Protect the individual from Democracy and you will protect all groups of individuals
    Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. - Thomas Jefferson
    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

    - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by P3ter_Griffin View Post
    The whole world is ran by crazy people. I don't see any reason to discriminate against Pakistan. Is it the US government selling this weaponry to Pakistan or 'private' MIC businesses bidding contracts?
    I don't know the specifics of this relationship but I would not be surprised if these purchases were funded with our own money given to them to buy the weaponry with. Ya know, just like we do Israel.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    I don't know the specifics of this relationship but I would not be surprised if these purchases were funded with our own money given to them to buy the weaponry with. Ya know, just like we do Israel.
    300 million
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.



  10. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  11. #9
    xxxxx
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 07-23-2018 at 07:46 PM.
    You have the right to remain silent. Anything you post to the internet can and will be used to humiliate you.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    300 million
    Is it like the Israeli arrangement where we give them money but on the condition that they spend on military equipment from US providers?

  13. #11
    Here are some articles including this turd:


    Republican Bob Corker of Tennessee - the Senate Foreign Relations Committee chairman - urged his colleagues to allow Pakistan to buy the aircraft. He says rejecting the sale would have embarrassed Pakistan and led Pakistan to buy fighters from Russia or France.



    http://www.stripes.com/news/us/senat...istan-1.398637


    http://www.reuters.com/article/usa-p...-idUSL1N16I1WM


    http://www.business-standard.com/art...1100049_1.html


    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...nd-paul-220578
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    I also don't know how "advanced" the Pakistani variant would be. We're talking about a platform that made first flight in the early 70's.
    They're F16 C's and D's... the D's smoke a F35 in dogfight.

    Lockheed Martin's F-35 Joint Strike Fighter has been having a terrible time of late. In June, War is Boring journalist David Axe obtained a report detailing the F-35's performance—or lack thereof—as a dogfighter. The F-35 went up against an F-16 in January of this year and, with the exception of a single 'Hail Mary' move, was soundly outclassed by the older plane.
    http://arstechnica.com/business/2015...-philosophies/

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    I don't know the specifics of this relationship but I would not be surprised if these purchases were funded with our own money given to them to buy the weaponry with. Ya know, just like we do Israel.
    That seems like the way things work, they support our interest so we give them money to buy weapons from the MIC so they can fend off their peasants so they can support our interest. I would honestly feel zero bad for the MIC company that lost their contract or for Pakistan that they couldn't get the weapons from the US but in the end it becomes an issue much like the build the wall or end the welfare one. If we don't go for the root we are just distorting distortions.

  16. #14
    Roll call vote:
    http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...n=2&vote=00035

    Here are the Nays and Not Votings. Everyone else voted for it.

    NAYs ---24
    Ayotte (R-NH)
    Booker (D-NJ)
    Boxer (D-CA)
    Brown (D-OH)
    Capito (R-WV)
    Collins (R-ME)
    Daines (R-MT)
    Gillibrand (D-NY)
    Grassley (R-IA)
    Heinrich (D-NM)
    Heller (R-NV)
    Hoeven (R-ND)
    Kirk (R-IL)
    Manchin (D-WV)
    Moran (R-KS)
    Murphy (D-CT)
    Paul (R-KY)
    Schatz (D-HI)
    Scott (R-SC)
    Tester (D-MT)
    Udall (D-NM)
    Vitter (R-LA)
    Warner (D-VA)
    Warren (D-MA)

    Not Voting - 5
    Cruz (R-TX)
    Lee (R-UT)
    McCaskill (D-MO)
    Rubio (R-FL)
    Sanders (I-VT)

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by P3ter_Griffin View Post
    Not to be an ass but I think that's good. If the MIC can get enough voluntary customers to keep afloat then more power to em.
    The first line of Rand's speech:

    I rise in opposition to the American taxpayers being forced to pay for fighter jets for Pakistan. Over $300 million from the American taxpayer will be designated to go to Pakistan to pay for eight new F-16s for Pakistan.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    They're F16 C's and D's... the D's smoke a F35 in dogfight.


    http://arstechnica.com/business/2015...-philosophies/

    Did you read the comments?


    "Hi. I have experience engineering controls for these types of systems and I would like to point out that the media has been doing an _incredibly_ poor job interpreting the leaked report.

    The report in question described the results of a very specific test of the F-35 control laws. The result of test indicated that in a particular part of the flight envelope the plane responded sluggishly to pitch inputs from the pilot. This would make it harder for the pilot to exploit the F-35 airframe's great high-AOA capability because it means that the airplane will take longer than it needs transitioning to the requested AOA and therefore bleed more energy.

    The report also noted that the aircraft itself has sufficient control surfaces to allow for much higher pitch & yaw rates. The test-pilot recommended relaxing the control laws to allow for faster pitch rates in the part of the flight envelope where the test occurred which would give a pilot more ability to exploit the aircraft's AOA capabilities.

    The test did _NOT_ indicate that the F-16 was a better dogfighter. The F-16 was simply used as a visual reference for the F-35 test pilot to maneuver against.


    Anyone who wants to understand what REALLY happened should read the actual report:
    https://medium.com/war-is-boring/read-f ... 9a4e66f3eb


    David Axe has a history of blatantly misrepresenting findings and totally misunderstanding how modern wars are prosecuted. Its a shame other journalists are repeating his silliness without much critical analysis.

    edit: Every fighter is developed and tested this way: Start with conservative control laws then relax them as needed according to tests. Same thing happened with the F-16, F-15, and F-14 during development. We just didn't have the internet then so uninformed dilettantes couldn't broadcast their opinion."
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.



  19. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by tsai3904 View Post
    Roll call vote:
    http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...n=2&vote=00035

    Here are the Nays and Not Votings. Everyone else voted for it.
    Hold on, what is a Nay in this case?
    Last edited by Brian4Liberty; 03-10-2016 at 02:40 PM.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The first line of Rand's speech:
    I'm guessing he is talking foreign aid? That won't go away just because a US company doesn't sell them the arms.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by P3ter_Griffin View Post
    I'm guessing he is talking foreign aid? That won't go away just because a US company doesn't sell them the arms.
    Like I said, it might be like the Israel foreign aid where they only get the AID if they use it to buy arms from US companies. So, in that instance it would. theoretically. Kinda a catch-22 situation.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Hold on, what is a Nay in this case?
    Nay is to NOT "table" Randals motion. Yay is to "table" it, aka: kill it.

  24. #21
    Glad to see my Texas senator Cruz earning those Texas tax dollars, oh wait he was a no show again.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by P3ter_Griffin View Post
    I'm guessing he is talking foreign aid? That won't go away just because a US company doesn't sell them the arms.
    "designated". No doubt the money is specifically earmarked for this purchase. No purchase, no money.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Nay is to NOT "table" Randals motion. Yay is to "table" it, aka: kill it.
    Ok, so the vote wasn't actually on Rand's proposal, it was a vote to table or kill Rand's proposal. Guess it's semantics, but it seems that they go out of their way with procedural votes to confuse the issues.

    Senate Votes on Sen. Rand Paul’s Joint Resolution of Disapproval to Halt Sale of Advanced Military Aircraft to Pakistan

    24-71 voted in support of Pakistan not receiving F-16s.
    So, "In support" = Nay vote.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  27. #24
    Where in the hell was Mike Lee?!?!
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst



  28. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  29. #25
    Endorsing Ted Cruz.
    The Voluntary Exchange Podcast

    Twitter

    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain"

    "I want to be President, not because I want to run your lives. I don't want to run the economy, and I don't want to run the world. I want to be President to restore liberty."

    "The use of force to impose morality is itself immoral, and generosity with others' money is still theft"

    "My name is George. I'm unemployed and live with my parents."

  30. #26
    Utah's Mike Lee endorses Ted Cruz - CNNPolitics.comCNN International‎ - 2 hours ago

    Washington (CNN) Utah Sen. Mike Lee endorsed Ted Cruz for president Thursday, making ...Ted Cruz Receives First Senate Endorsement, From Mike Lee of UtahNew York Times‎ - 4 hours ago

    Report: Mike Lee to endorse Ted Cruz this afternoonHot Air‎ - 4 hours ago

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  31. #27
    Jan2017
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by Kords21 View Post
    Glad to see my Texas senator Cruz earning those Texas tax dollars, oh wait he was a no show again.
    It's better for Cruz to not commit to anything . . .
    1.5 million Texans voted for someone else in the Texas presidential primary, more votes than Teddy received

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    "designated". No doubt the money is specifically earmarked for this purchase. No purchase, no money.
    lol. They are stretching the meaning of sale. Thanks for the clarification.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by P3ter_Griffin View Post
    The whole world is ran by crazy people. I don't see any reason to discriminate against Pakistan. Is it the US government selling this weaponry to Pakistan or 'private' MIC businesses bidding contracts?
    We give foreign aid to pakistan, they in turn buy Fighter Jets. It is Tax dollars that are paying for these.
    "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    -Benjamin Franklin

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by P3ter_Griffin View Post
    Not to be an ass but I think that's good. If the MIC can get enough voluntary customers to keep afloat then more power to em.
    I doubt that's what's happening here.

    Considering we've also been giving the Pakistani government the money to buy these planes, it still only benefits the MIC at the expense of U.S. taxpayers. It's still a sham.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •