5 Billion Border Wall Funding Approved

[PAF]

I just think you are being inconsistent. In one respect you speak of property rights and civil disobedience in the next you know what you can get away with. Which one is it? Maybe many here have come to grips that we don't live in the era of the founding fathers.

Do you pay property taxes? Why not protest on grounds of civil disobedience

Everybody’s circumstances and mileage may vary. I am not naive to that. Other area homes are tapped into public water, sewage, gas, I instead put in my own well, septic and geothermal. A couple of folks bought property in the area, and when I introduced myself to them I invited them over to look around. They also decided to go well and septic. We help each other within our means, borrow ladders and tools, have a few brews, carry lumber and supplies from the pickup trucks to where they need to go. We are pretty comfortable, and still discuss political issues from time to time.

Some of the folks here are under some impression that either you kiss governments ass 100% or live in a hole underground up on the moon. It is non-productive.

[acptulsa]

So, is this what Trump was after? If this gets through the Senate, will we suddenly find that troops are staying in Syria and Afghanistan? Or will the Fed have to cut rates for that to happen?

[presence]

I just think you are being inconsistent. In one respect you speak of property rights and civil disobedience in the next you know what you can get away with. Which one is it? Maybe many here have come to grips that we don't live in the era of the founding fathers.

Do you pay property taxes? Why not protest on grounds of civil disobedience

Chapter 4 Applied Counter Economics - SEK3
http://www.kopubco.com/pdf/An_Agoris...er_by_SEK3.pdf

trade risk for profit

[Anti Federalist]

Quit with the silly rhetorical questions. I know my limits as I weigh my financial risk. I pay them by force, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t exercise civil disobedience to live as free and independently as I can.

Wait, is this particular thread DTF or RPF? Lately I don’t know where I am on this board.

Yet you scoff and mock others who are equally limited and picking what battles they can, because they don't measure up to your standard of fighting the man.

[Anti Federalist]

Some of the folks here are under some impression that either you kiss governments ass 100% or live in a hole underground up on the moon. It is non-productive.

I'm not aware of anybody that fits that description.

I applaud you for successfully dodging what irksome rules and ridiculous fatwas that you can in your life.

I do the same in mine.

Phill does the same in his.

Getting back to the subject at hand, please address these two issues:

1 - Explain to me your plan to get a majority vote across the board to abolish the welfare state in toto thus reducing incentives for illegal immigration.

2 - Explain how this task (or how evading fatwas and rules) will be made easier by introducing tens of millions more of migrant hordes that overwhelmingly support larger and more intrusive government.

[PAF]

Yet you scoff and mock others who are equally limited and picking what battles they can, because they don't measure up to your standard of fighting the man.

After one of our meetings last summer we moved next door to the ice cream shop. I am pretty sure I had 2 scoops of the Neapolitan.

An Iranian and Hispanic are part of our group, in fact they even campaigned for Ron Paul back in ‘12. The group of 15 or so of us were eating our ice-cream talking about activism efforts and the Bill of Rights printouts that I had made. A car pulled into the parking lot, a mother and 3 kids. Waiting in line to get her ice-cream, she heard us talking about the Bill of Rights. And then she put her exposed top teeth over her bottom lip and flipped us the bird. Late 30’s-early 40’s, not quite sure, but she was in fact a red-head and didn’t seem to have any kind of an accent.

I did not respond, because freedom and liberty come from within, and those who do not understand that probably never will. I do not expend energy unless it is productive, or fun.

[Anti Federalist]

I am a little taken back by the hostility on this board. Ideas, sharing experiences, seeking ways to achieve liberty, etc, seemed to have gone all out the window. Have I said or done anything that has harmed anybody?

Why?

You come in with snark, smart ass remarks, and an attitude of "I've got it all figured out and all the rest of you are poseurs and punks who wouldn't know liberty if you fell over it".

What kind of response did you think you would get?

[Anti Federalist]

After one of our meetings last summer we moved next door to the ice cream shop. I am pretty sure I had 2 scoops of the Neapolitan.

An Iranian and Hispanic are part of our group, in fact they even campaigned for Ron Paul back in ‘12. The group of 15 or so of us were eating our ice-cream talking about activism efforts and the Bill of Rights printouts that I had made. A car pulled into the parking lot, a mother and 3 kids. Waiting in line to get her ice-cream, she heard us talking about the Bill of Rights. And then she put her exposed top teeth over her bottom lip and flipped us the bird. Late 30’s-early 40’s, not quite sure, but she was in fact a red-head and didn’t seem to have any kind of an accent.

I did not respond, because freedom and liberty come from within, and those who do not understand that probably never will. I do not expend energy unless it is productive, or fun.

I am not telling what to do, it is your right to do what you want as long as it does no harm to others. But a simple suggestion to change your name because “Anti Federalist” does not match your views.

So, you're telling me you have no plan then?

About what I figured...moving on.

[Zippyjuan]

So, is this what Trump was after? If this gets through the Senate, will we suddenly find that troops are staying in Syria and Afghanistan? Or will the Fed have to cut rates for that to happen?

Senate has passed one without the $5 billion. That is now in the House. Short term funding through February 8th. Trump threatening to shut down "for a long time". Senate needs 50 votes to start debate and 60 votes to end debate on the $5 billion package. Many members in the House already heading home for the holidays.

[PAF]

So, you're telling me you have no plan then?

About what I figured...moving on.

Look, Anti Federalist, you denounced our efforts contacting many representatives across this nation in pushing back TPP. Anything that I say or do will not be good enough for you.

Short of revolution, there are ways to push back, even slightly, hoping that over time freedom will become more popular.

There is NO easy answer or way out of this. But you can coordinate your area and help others do the same so that perhaps we could ground-swell our representatives more so now than in the past.

[TheTexan]

Getting back to the subject at hand, please address these two issues:

1 - Explain to me your plan to get a majority vote across the board to abolish the welfare state in toto thus reducing incentives for illegal immigration.

2 - Explain how this task (or how evading fatwas and rules) will be made easier by introducing tens of millions more of migrant hordes that overwhelmingly support larger and more intrusive government.

Thanks AF for getting this thread back to the important issue at hand: voting.

[Anti Federalist]

Look, Anti Federalist, you denounced our efforts contacting many representatives across this nation in pushing back TPP. Anything that I say or do will not be good enough for you.

I did?

You are going to have to pull up the quote for that, I want to see that, because I was/am vigorously opposed to TPP, I can recall at no time making any negative comments about people doing whatever they could to stop it.

Short of revolution, there are ways to push back, even slightly, hoping that over time freedom will become more popular.

There is NO easy answer or way out of this. But you can coordinate your area and help others do the same so that perhaps we could ground-swell our representatives more so now than in the past.

OK, fair enough.

What makes you think I am not already doing that?

So here's the problem, the border invasion is now, we do not have twenty or thirty years to gently persuade people into abolishing the welfare state, (assuming we could be successful at that, god knows Ron wasn't) especially when the millions of invaders overwhelming support larger and more intrusive government.

[Anti Federalist]

Thanks AF for getting this thread back to the important issue at hand: voting.

Well, damn it, folks are not voting hard enough.

[PAF]

Thanks AF for getting this thread back to the important issue at hand: voting.

I whole-heartedly agree with that. Voting does not work. Anybody involved in the ‘12 campaign understands this.

However even if one does not vote (me being one of them) reps can be contacted, 1 call represents 100. If enough activists are on the same page and do this across the country, we may be able to push back to some degree.

I hope I have canceled out AF’s calls (if he did) opposing that stupid wall.

[PAF]

I did?

You are going to have to pull up the quote for that, I want to see that, because I was/am vigorously opposed to TPP, I can recall at no time making any negative comments about people doing whatever they could to stop it.



OK, fair enough.

What makes you think I am not already doing that?

So here's the problem, the border invasion is now, we do not have twenty or thirty years to gently persuade people into abolishing the welfare state, (assuming we could be successful at that, god knows Ron wasn't) especially when the millions of invaders overwhelming support larger and more intrusive government.

Seriously, AF, other than this manufactured crisis as of recent to instigate walls and biometrics, the numbers are not so much different than in prior years. If we can maintain a level head, as liberty rises, maybe we can extend the time out. Contact and work with YAL chapters, Young Republicans, Rotary Clubs, etc in your area.

That wall will do nothing other than cost us freedom and money. Instead of falling under pressure, maintain a liberty-minded perspective and keep forging ahead.

I know we bicker from time to time but I know deep down you are trying your best. Hopefully we can work together and try to reduce the size of government, not grow it.

Later tonight I am going down to get some Lebanese food that I haven’t had for a while. The married couple who own the restaurant are authentic, and it is mighty tasty :-)

[specsaregood]

I whole-heartedly agree with that. Voting does not work. Anybody involved in the ‘12 campaign understands this.

If trump really does manage to end these wars and bring troops home, then you wont' be able to say voting does not work any longer, as he only got there because of voting and the other candidates in the primary sure as hell wouldn't have done it.

[TheTexan]

However even if one does not vote (me being one of them) reps can be contacted, 1 call represents 100. If enough activists are on the same page and do this across the country, we may be able to push back to some degree.

I think if we did that together with a massive sign waving campaign we could really make a difference. Perhaps even start a few petitions, to really get their attention.

[PAF]

If trump really does manage to end these wars and bring troops home, then you wont' be able to say voting does not work any longer, as he only got there because of voting and the other candidates in the primary sure as hell wouldn't have done it.

What positive trump may or may not have is in spite of voting. He was pre-selected ahead of time.

I was directly involved in the ‘12 campaign, all the way to RNC Convention. Individual voter fraud is a side-tracking joke compared to what happens at the organized level. It was the most corrupt process I have ever witnessed in my life.

[PAF]

I think if we did that together with a massive sign waving campaign we could really make a difference. Perhaps even start a few petitions, to really get their attention.

And big red balloons! :-)

Of course, joking aside, signs and voting are not what works. This system is designed pertaing to delegates and reps. Not popular votes. But there is no denying that that process is corrupt.

[TheTexan]

And big red balloons! :-)

Of course, joking aside, signs and voting are not what works. This system is designed pertaing to delegates and reps. Not popular votes.

The US is a representative democracy, but it's still a democracy, e.g. rule by majority.

But there is no denying that that process is corrupt.

I disagree, democracy seems to be working as intended to me.

[PAF]

The US is a representative democracy, but it's still a democracy, e.g. rule by majority.



I disagree, democracy seems to be working as intended to me.

Yes and no, another conundrum, indeed. I only know what I experienced in ‘12. Every one of my RP delegates at the congressional district level won by landslide, there was no dispute. I oversaw the precinct and CD levels. It was higher up at the state level up to nat convention that was ‘compromised’.

[angelatc]

Look, Anti Federalist, you denounced our efforts contacting many representatives across this nation in pushing back TPP.
.

Wait, wot?

[TheTexan]

Yes and no, another conundrum, indeed. I only know what I experienced in ‘12. Every one of my RP delegates at the congressional district level won by landslide, there was no dispute. I oversaw the precinct and CD levels. It was higher up at the state level up to nat convention that was ‘compromised’.

Makes sense. The process is designed to keep wacky/fringe elements out of national politics.

[PAF]

Makes sense. The process is designed to keep wacky/fringe elements out of national politics.

Xactly lol. Though I’ve been called worse ;-)

[Anti Federalist]

Wait, wot?

Yah, I'm gonna have to see a quote of that.

[PAF]

Yah, I'm gonna have to see a quote of that.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...51#post6712851

[dannno]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...51#post6712851

You seem to be confused..

[devil21]

You seem to be confused..

Not to speak for PAF but I think he/she means that everyone gives the politician all the credit instead of viewing the politician as a mere vessel for the coordinated efforts of a lot of people. IOW, Trump just signed something, it was a crap ton of people that forced his hand to do it. Put the credit where it belongs. Not the politician.

[Ender]

Seriously, AF, other than this manufactured crisis as of recent to instigate walls and biometrics, the numbers are not so much different than in prior years. If we can maintain a level head, as liberty rises, maybe we can extend the time out. Contact and work with YAL chapters, Young Republicans, Rotary Clubs, etc in your area.

That wall will do nothing other than cost us freedom and money. Instead of falling under pressure, maintain a liberty-minded perspective and keep forging ahead.

I know we bicker from time to time but I know deep down you are trying your best. Hopefully we can work together and try to reduce the size of government, not grow it.

Later tonight I am going down to get some Lebanese food that I haven’t had for a while. The married couple who own the restaurant are authentic, and it is mighty tasty :-)

Pretty much how I see this mess.

AND @Anti Federalist is one of my fav members here; always upfront & honest about his POV.

[phill4paul]

I am a little taken back by the hostility on this board. Ideas, sharing experiences, seeking ways to achieve liberty, etc, seemed to have gone all out the window. Have I said or done anything that has harmed anybody?

Talking smack without a workable plan and being a big phony to boot? Just go on with your bad self.