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Thread: Rand's Very Disappointing Statement On Vaccine Mandates

  1. #1

    Rand's Very Disappointing Statement On Vaccine Mandates

    Disappointing by omission. Why is he leaving out those who don't have natural immunity but still have no interest in the vaccine? They should still be mandated to take it?! Horrible! We need people to stand up for the principles for individual liberty.


    https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1436078871854649344

    Vaccine mandates that ignore natural immunity ignore the science, are unscientific, and should not be adhered to or promulgated by the government.



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  3. #2
    As somebody stated... The ship has sailed.

    99% of the talk, among politicians, voters, even people on this very RPF, are anxious to talk about science, alternatives, pros/cons, but fail to make the point that "Government Has NO Business In Healthcare - Period".
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  4. #3
    It's just a tweet though. Not a speech or article.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by BortSimpson View Post
    Disappointing by omission. Why is he leaving out those who don't have natural immunity but still have no interest in the vaccine? They should still be mandated to take it?! Horrible! We need people to stand up for the principles for individual liberty.


    https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1436078871854649344

    Vaccine mandates that ignore natural immunity ignore the science, are unscientific, and should not be adhered to or promulgated by the government.
    Tweets are short by design. It was single idea, focusing on science.

    He could just as well have said (and has probably previously said) "Vaccine mandates that ignore natural rights are unconstitutional, and should not be adhered to or promulgated by the government." I am sure he believes that too. But it would be a separate argument against mandates, and it would not have the twist of using the "science" against them.

    There is no use trying to make the liberty and individual choice arguments against the left. They already openly say "f*ck your rights". They have no problem with contradictions and hypocrisy. They are leftists and communists, and it is part of their mindset.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by BortSimpson View Post
    Disappointing by omission. Why is he leaving out those who don't have natural immunity but still have no interest in the vaccine? They should still be mandated to take it?! Horrible! We need people to stand up for the principles for individual liberty.


    https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1436078871854649344

    Vaccine mandates that ignore natural immunity ignore the science, are unscientific, and should not be adhered to or promulgated by the government.
    I count 124 characters. If you want me to consider this true statement "horrible", show me how to say everything else you're demanding that he add in sixteen letters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I count 124 characters. If you want me to consider this true statement "horrible", show me how to say everything else you're demanding that he add in sixteen letters.
    How about: "Vaccine mandates should not be adhered to or promulgated by the government"

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by BortSimpson View Post
    How about: "Vaccine mandates should not be adhered to or promulgated by the government"
    He could say that, and most of us here would agree. The problem with that argument is that the pro-mandate people will say that the Supreme Court has already ruled that vaccine mandates are OK.

    An argument that no one seems to be making is that COVID is not an emergency, thus no mandates are justified. The entire premise of mandates is that there is an emergency or disaster. That is false. At first, there were a lot of unknowns. It was a novel (and lab created) virus. No one knew the death rate. Hospitals and doctors did not know how to treat it.

    Today, it is no longer novel. It has traveled around the world several times for almost two years. We know the death rate is similar to a flu. We know how to treat it much better. There is no emergency, and no justification for government actions.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by BortSimpson View Post
    How about: "Vaccine mandates should not be adhered to or promulgated by the government"
    Sounds perfect, for preaching to the choir.

    Now give me a pitch tailored for the government is god and science is gospel crowd. It is they, not the choir, who need their heads pried out of their asses.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...



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  11. #9
    Thomas Massie:
    Biden DOES NOT have the authority to force you to take a vaccine.
    Inserting an administrative agency & your employer in the middle changes nothing.
    This only stands if you and your employer comply with his illegal directive.

    (for the record, I don't find anything objectionable in the way Rand phrased it. We all know he's against the mandates.)
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  12. #10
    Massie's tweet is also very disappointing because he failed to mention ending the Fed.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Sounds perfect, for preaching to the choir.

    Now give me a pitch tailored for the government is god and science is gospel crowd. It is they, not the choir, who need their heads pried out of their asses.
    Do you think the "government is god and science is gospel" crowd are on-board with his "I don't need a mandate because I have natural immunity" comment? These are the same people who worship Fauci.
    Last edited by BortSimpson; 09-10-2021 at 12:12 PM.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Massie's tweet is also very disappointing because he failed to mention ending the Fed.
    So you're dismissing my point?

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    He could say that, and most of us here would agree. The problem with that argument is that the pro-mandate people will say that the Supreme Court has already ruled that vaccine mandates are OK.

    An argument that no one seems to be making is that COVID is not an emergency, thus no mandates are justified. The entire premise of mandates is that there is an emergency or disaster. That is false. At first, there were a lot of unknowns. It was a novel (and lab created) virus. No one knew the death rate. Hospitals and doctors did not know how to treat it.

    Today, it is no longer novel. It has traveled around the world several times for almost two years. We know the death rate is similar to a flu. We know how to treat it much better. There is no emergency, and no justification for government actions.
    I don't think we should pussyfoot around the topics. Playing those types of games gets us nowhere. We need someone who defends liberty. There won't be any arguments won with people who basically believe everything they're hearing from the Fauci's of the world.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by BortSimpson View Post
    So you're dismissing my point?
    Yes. You can't criticize anything he does say in his tweet. He makes a valid point that's worth making. You just criticize him for not saying something else, as if he shouldn't ever make the one point without the other, not even in a mere tweet.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Sounds perfect, for preaching to the choir.

    Now give me a pitch tailored for the government is god and science is gospel crowd. It is they, not the choir, who need their heads pried out of their asses.
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Yes. You can't criticize anything he does say in his tweet. He makes a valid point that's worth making. You just criticize him for not saying something else, as if he shouldn't ever make the one point without the other, not even in a mere tweet.
    I replied above but I want to add another point. Would you defend Rand if he commented the following about Australia:

    "The Australian government shouldn't limit people who haven't taken the vaccine to 1 hour a day outside if they already have natural immunity".
    Last edited by BortSimpson; 09-10-2021 at 12:23 PM.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by BortSimpson View Post
    I replied above but I want to add another point. Would you defend Rand if he commented the following about Australia:

    "The Australian government shouldn't limit people who haven't taken the vaccine to 1 hour a day outside if they already have natural immunity".
    No, because that totally different tweet that you made up and that sounds nothing like what Rand said in the tweet in the OP, makes it sound like he would support that for people who don't have natural immunity.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by BortSimpson View Post
    Do you think the "government is god and science is gospel" crowd are on-board with his "I don't need a mandate because I have natural immunity" comment? These are the same people who worship Fauci.
    I think I can't conceive of 124 characters which are more likely to lance the boil of their cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy. I'm sorry you've written off half the population as incapable of outgrowing their hubris in a crisis, but I'm glad Rand Paul hasn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by BortSimpson View Post
    I replied above but I want to add another point. Would you defend Rand if he commented the following about Australia:

    "The Australian government shouldn't limit people who haven't taken the vaccine to 1 hour a day outside if they already have natural immunity".
    I can't put it any more succinctly than this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    No, because that... makes it sound like he would support that for people who don't have natural immunity.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 09-10-2021 at 12:34 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    No, because that totally different tweet that you made up and that sounds nothing like what Rand said in the tweet in the OP, makes it sound like he would support that for people who don't have natural immunity.
    Well that's my criticism of his original quote. He said:

    "Vaccine mandates that ignore natural immunity ignore the science, are unscientific, and should not be adhered to or promulgated by the government."

    In other words, he (glaringly) left out those who haven't taken the vaccine but also don't have natural immunity (from recovering from Covid).

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by BortSimpson View Post
    Well that's my criticism of his original quote. He said:

    "Vaccine mandates that ignore natural immunity ignore the science, are unscientific, and should not be adhered to or promulgated by the government."

    In other words, he (glaringly) left out those who haven't taken the vaccine but also don't have natural immunity (from recovering from Covid).
    That's because he's focusing on the scientific hypocrisy of the government. That, in turn, is because the government and its sycophants are using what they call science as justification to screw an entire nation. He's attacking a false god. He is not saying or implying that anyone should have fewer rights than anyone else.

    And since natural immunity is borderline impossible to test for, those without natural immunity derive the same benefit as those who do. So where's the complaint?

    You're starting to sound like someone whose third cousin twice removed got on a game show, and didn't say hi to you on the air.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by BortSimpson View Post
    Well that's my criticism of his original quote. He said:

    "Vaccine mandates that ignore natural immunity ignore the science, are unscientific, and should not be adhered to or promulgated by the government."

    In other words, he (glaringly) left out those who haven't taken the vaccine but also don't have natural immunity (from recovering from Covid).
    One would naturally leave those people out when one is making a point that is specifically about natural immunity.

    You're insisting that he shoe-horn something into his tweet that is entirely outside of the point he was making.

    It's just a tweet, not a treatise on the subject.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    That's because he's focusing on the scientific hypocrisy of the government. That, in turn, is because the government and its sycophants are using what they call science as justification to screw an entire nation. He's attacking a false god. He is not saying or implying that anyone should have fewer rights than anyone else.

    And since natural immunity is borderline impossible to test for, those without natural immunity derive the same benefit as those who do. So where's the complaint?

    You're starting to sound like someone whose third cousin twice removed got on a game show, and didn't say hi to you on the air.
    Your point is reasonable except, again, the same could be said about the sentence below (if he had made it, which he didn't):

    "The Australian government shouldn't limit people who haven't taken the vaccine to 1 hour a day outside if they already have natural immunity"

  25. #22
    I give credit to Rand and Tom.

    Most people have been slowly indoctrinated, look to others on what to do, what is PC, few have ambition to think logically for themselves.

    It is the people who must wake up out of their stupor.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    One would naturally leave those people out when one is making a point that is specifically about natural immunity.

    You're insisting that he shoe-horn something into his tweet that is entirely outside of the point he was making.

    It's just a tweet, not a treatise on the subject.
    Have you heard him say that government has no business mandating vaccines regardless of natural immunity? If so, send it along and I'll rescind my original criticism. I haven't though and so, to me, it feels like he's leaving a large segment of the population out.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by BortSimpson View Post
    Have you heard him say that government has no business mandating vaccines regardless of natural immunity? If so, send it along and I'll rescind my original criticism. I haven't though and so, to me, it feels like he's leaving a large segment of the population out.
    He basically says that in this video clip.
    https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1424399282447298563
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by BortSimpson View Post
    Have you heard him say that government has no business mandating vaccines regardless of natural immunity? If so, send it along and I'll rescind my original criticism. I haven't though and so, to me, it feels like he's leaving a large segment of the population out.
    Ok - just stop with the circular firing squad. He's on your side, dude. What's the point of complaining that he didn't do things to your liking? Focus your ire on those pushing FOR the mandates, for crying out loud!
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by BortSimpson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BortSimpson View Post
    How about: "Vaccine mandates should not be adhered to or promulgated by the government"
    Sounds perfect, for preaching to the choir.

    Now give me a pitch tailored for the government is god and science is gospel crowd. It is they, not the choir, who need their heads pried out of their asses.
    Do you think the "government is god and science is gospel" crowd are on-board with his "I don't need a mandate because I have natural immunity" comment? These are the same people who worship Fauci.
    None of the Fauci-worshipping "government is god and science is gospel" crowd are going to be any more impressed by "vaccine mandates should not be adhered to or promulgated by the government" than by "I don't need a mandate because I have natural immunity."

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    There is no use trying to make the liberty and individual choice arguments against the left. They already openly say "f*ck your rights". They have no problem with contradictions and hypocrisy. They are leftists and communists, and it is part of their mindset.
    At this point, the only sane response to those people is some form of Michael Malice's reply: "I don't want to change your mind or argue with you, but I don't want to share a country with you either."
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Ok - just stop with the circular firing squad. He's on your side, dude. What's the point of complaining that he didn't do things to your liking? Focus your ire on those pushing FOR the mandates, for crying out loud!
    It's the progs' job to eat their own. We need to be heterosexual about this thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    None of the Fauci-worshipping "government is god and science is gospel" crowd are going to be any more impressed by "vaccine mandates should not be adhered to or promulgated by the government" than by "I don't need a mandate because I have natural immunity."



    At this point, the only sane response to those people is some form of Michael Malice's reply: "I don't want to change your mind or argue with you, but I don't want to share a country with you either."
    Fine, but then why "aim low"? At least stand up for liberty.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    He basically says that in this video clip.
    https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1424399282447298563
    Okay that one is much better. I'll rescind my original point then.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    It's the progs' job to eat their own. We need to be heterosexual about this thing.
    We shouldn't "eat our own" but we should absolutely debate each other in a mature manner. We're the ones who are trying to live up to our principles so internal debate is important.

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