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Thread: Conoco Begins Confiscating Venezuela Oil Assets, Infuriating China

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    "Venezuela's Hugo Chavez tightens state control of food amid rocketing inflation and food shortages"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...shortages.html
    So he was president from 1999 to 2013 and things started to go bad more than 3/4 way into his rule. I think he did quite well resisting the advances of the west. On this point, you are right and I was wrong.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post

    PLUS the US is no longer a capitalist country

    Here's a great article about how Cuba has morphed into real capitalism.
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post

    Switch communism with just about any economic system and the results will be the same. That too is settled.

    I don't have a response. I just felt like singling those comments out.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    I don't have a response. I just felt like singling those comments out.
    I would add that the more open and free market a country is, the more likely it is to be taken over by bigger, organized cunning foreign agents. So I was mistaken to say that the result would be the same regardless of what economic system a country has.



    One of James Corbett finest works. Very relevant to this discussion

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    (Posts some scholarly analysis Youtube video with some laughable clips that make the claim that that Venezuela isn't *really* socialist ......)
    Just another case of it not being done correctly?

    Like I said, a socialism-denier.

    I feel it important to point out that there weren't even any US sanctions on Venezuela until a couple of days ago. But I'm sure it's all the fault of the USA regardless.
    Last edited by angelatc; 05-23-2018 at 08:17 PM.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Just another case of it not being done correctly?

    Like I said, a socialism-denier.
    Venezuela just like most economies is a mixed economy and that was the point he was trying to make as opposed to the idiots who go around calling it a socialist paradise. Found this article from fox news.

    CARACAS – CARACAS (AP) — It's President Hugo Chavez's biggest economic battle cry, and it's getting louder as Venezuela suffers a recession: "We're going to bury Venezuelan capitalism."

    Yet creating a socialist economy is one of Chavez's most elusive goals — a stark example of the disconnect between the president's rhetoric and the reality on the ground. In fact, the private sector still controls two-thirds of Venezuela's economy — the same as when Chavez was elected in 1998, according to estimates by the Central Bank.

    The reasons are political and practical: Chavez knows most Venezuelans recoil from the idea of Cuban-style state control, and his government is far from being capable of taking over and running a majority of the economy.
    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/07...z-crusade.html

    Don't you think its a bit weird that a socialist country has 66% + of their economy still controlled by private sector? Sorry, I don't have some scholar analysis for you to read. All the stuff I get is from wikipedia, articles and videos from youtube.

  8. #36
    I am having a hard time believing a company should have been investing there in the first place . Too much risk . Poor decision making .
    Do something Danke

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Just another case of it not being done correctly?

    Like I said, a socialism-denier.

    I feel it important to point out that there weren't even any US sanctions on Venezuela until a couple of days ago. But I'm sure it's all the fault of the USA regardless.

    The whole problem is about countries with resources who defy the USG & try to get out from under the dollar. These countries are taken down, made to look as bad as possible, and a coup is used to usurp their government.

    From Ron Paul:


    Greenspan, in his first speech after leaving the Fed, said that gold prices were up because of concern about terrorism, and not because of monetary concerns or because he created too many dollars during his tenure. Gold has to be discredited and the dollar propped up. Even when the dollar comes under serious attack by market forces, the central banks and the IMF surely will do everything conceivable to soak up the dollars in hope of restoring stability. Eventually they will fail.

    Most importantly, the dollar/oil relationship has to be maintained to keep the dollar as a preeminent currency. Any attack on this relationship will be forcefully challenged — as it already has been.

    In November 2000 Saddam Hussein demanded Euros for his oil
    . His arrogance was a threat to the dollar; his lack of any military might was never a threat. At the first cabinet meeting with the new administration in 2001, as reported by Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill, the major topic was how we would get rid of Saddam Hussein — though there was no evidence whatsoever he posed a threat to us. This deep concern for Saddam Hussein surprised and shocked O’Neill.

    It now is common knowledge that the immediate reaction of the administration after 9/11 revolved around how they could connect Saddam Hussein to the attacks, to justify an invasion and overthrow of his government. Even with no evidence of any connection to 9/11, or evidence of weapons of mass destruction, public and congressional support was generated through distortions and flat out misrepresentation of the facts to justify overthrowing Saddam Hussein.

    There was no public talk of removing Saddam Hussein because of his attack on the integrity of the dollar as a reserve currency by selling oil in Euros. Many believe this was the real reason for our obsession with Iraq. I doubt it was the only reason, but it may well have played a significant role in our motivation to wage war. Within a very short period after the military victory, all Iraqi oil sales were carried out in dollars. The Euro was abandoned.

    In 2001, Venezuela’s ambassador to Russia spoke of Venezuela switching to the Euro for all their oil sales. Within a year there was a coup attempt against Chavez, reportedly with assistance from our CIA.

    After these attempts to nudge the Euro toward replacing the dollar as the world’s reserve currency were met with resistance, the sharp fall of the dollar against the Euro was reversed. These events may well have played a significant role in maintaining dollar dominance.

    It’s become clear the U.S. administration was sympathetic to those who plotted the overthrow of Chavez, and was embarrassed by its failure. The fact that Chavez was democratically elected had little influence on which side we supported.

    Now, a new attempt is being made against the petrodollar system. Iran, another member of the “axis of evil,” has announced her plans to initiate an oil bourse in March of this year. Guess what, the oil sales will be priced Euros, not dollars.

    Most Americans forget how our policies have systematically and needlessly antagonized the Iranians over the years. In 1953 the CIA helped overthrow a democratically elected president, Mohammed Mossadeqh, and install the authoritarian Shah, who was friendly to the U.S. friendly to the U.S.
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2006/02/...and-venezuela/
    There is no spoon.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Just another case of it not being done correctly?

    Like I said, a socialism-denier.

    I feel it important to point out that there weren't even any US sanctions on Venezuela until a couple of days ago. But I'm sure it's all the fault of the USA regardless.

    Venezuela has been sanctioned since at least 2015.

    https://www.state.gov/e/eb/tfs/spi/venezuela/

    This article written in Jan 2018 talks about Trump's sanctions in Aug 2017 & what more sanctions will do (have done, as of now).

    Why More Sanctions Won’t Help Venezuela
    The people, not the government, will pay the price.

    During the first year of his administration, U.S. President Donald Trump has taken an increasingly hard line against the government of Venezuela’s president, Nicolás Maduro. Washington has tightened sanctions on Caracas and even suggested a military intervention to remove the Venezuelan leader from office. Twelve months into Trump’s term, Maduro seems even more entrenched in power, and Venezuela’s opposition is more fractured than ever.

    U.S. foreign policy toward Venezuela is premised on a series of misconceptions. Perhaps the most widespread and serious one is the idea that Venezuela is a totalitarian dictatorship. While Maduro has certainly done many things to undermine democracy, Venezuela is no North Korea.

    Venezuela is not a tyrannical autocracy; it is a deeply divided and polarized society.Venezuela is not a tyrannical autocracy; it is a deeply divided and polarized society. Public opinion research shows strong and deep-seated support for Chavismo, the movement created by the late populist leader Hugo Chávez, among large swathes of the population. Many voters continue to credit Chavismo with redistributing the country’s oil wealth through its social programs and giving the poor a voice in Venezuelan politics. Around 25 percent of Venezuelans support Chávez’s successor, Maduro — a remarkably high number given the state of the economy — and about 50 percent believe that Chávez was a good president. Recent regional elections have shown that the government coalition is able to mobilize close to 6 million voters to support its candidates — nearly one-third of the country’s adult population, and more than enough to win a low-turnout election.

    In addition to misreading the country’s political mood, American policymakers also seem convinced that the country’s authoritarian leader will only leave power by force. Economic sanctions are ostensibly intended to raise costs for the military and are expected to somehow spur a rebellion against Maduro. This misguided approach stems from a poor understanding of the government’s internal dynamics and an excessive faith in the effectiveness of sanctions as a tool for bringing about regime change.

    Extensive academic research has shown that economic sanctions are rarely effective. When they work, it is because they offer the sanctioned regime incentives along with a way out by altering the conduct that led to the sanctions being imposed (such as the rollback of Iran’s nuclear program in exchange for access to international trade). By contrast, the sanctions against Venezuela have backed the regime into a corner, increasing the costs that the government would face upon leaving power and raising the incentives for Maduro to dig in his heels.

    An even more problematic idea driving current U.S. policy is the belief that financial sanctions can hurt the Venezuelan government without causing serious harm to ordinary Venezuelans. That’s impossible when 95 percent of Venezuela’s export revenue comes from oil sold by the state-owned oil company. Cutting off the government’s access to dollars will leave the economy without the hard currency needed to pay for imports of food and medicine. Starving the Venezuelan economy of its foreign currency earnings risks turning the country’s current humanitarian crisis into a full-blown humanitarian catastrophe.

    That’s what began to happen in 2017. Last year, Venezuela’s export revenues rose from $28 to $32 billion, buoyed by the recovery in world oil prices. Under normal conditions, a rise in a country’s exports would leave it with more resources to pay for its imports. But in the Venezuelan case, imports fell by 31 percent during the same year. The reason is that the country lost access to international financial markets. Unable to roll over its debt, it was forced to build up huge external surpluses to continue servicing that debt in a desperate attempt to avoid a default. Meanwhile, creditors threatened to seize the Venezuelan government’s remaining revenue sources if the country defaulted, including refineries located abroad and payments for oil shipments.

    U.S. economic sanctions have stopped Venezuela from issuing new debt and blocked attempts to restructure its existing debt obligations. Major financial institutions have delayed the processing of all financial transfers from Venezuelan entities, significantly hampering the ability of Venezuelan companies to do business in the United States. Even Citgo, a Venezuelan-owned subsidiary that owns 4 percent of the United States’ refining capacity, hasn’t been able to get U.S. financial institutions to issue routine trade credit since sanctions were imposed.

    Ever since the Vietnam War, most American policymakers have understood that foreign policy is not just about outgunning your opponent but also about winning the hearts and minds of the people. But 56 percent of Venezuelans oppose U.S. financial sanctions; only 32 percent support them. When it comes to foreign military intervention in Venezuela, 57 percent of those surveyed were opposed, while 58 percent support dialogue between the government and the opposition — and 71 percent believe that those talks should focus on seeking solutions to the country’s economic problems.
    There is no spoon.

  11. #39
    Che is a good example of one of the worst effects of interfering in foreign countries, it gives them an excuse to pretend that foreign meddling is entirely responsible for their problems.

    Communism is the primary factor in their troubles and outside interference just adds a little bit more.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #40
    Rozeff is always pretty much spot on.

    Venezuelan Sanctions, U.S. Dominance and the Power Elite
    Michael S. Rozeff
    What are the real foreign policy objectives of the U.S. government? They are hidden under its rhetoric and propaganda. They are submerged and kept submerged by the media and even by academics and historians who study these matters. These objectives are certainly not well-understood by the broad public or accepted as the actual objectives. Outside commentators who do seek to articulate what these objectives are quite often disagree or emphasize different factors. Lacking insider knowledge of the real motives behind foreign policy actions, most outside commentators have to make do with educated guesses.

    Consider an Executive Order issued by Obama on March 9, 2015 that sanctions seven Venezuelans. Nothing in it that explains the sanctions has any credibility. It is totally a fog of propaganda and diversion from the actual goals that are never mentioned. The first sentence in the Fact Sheet is simply ridiculous and a total fabrication that no sensible person can possibly believe:

    “President Obama today issued a new Executive Order (E.O.) declaring a national emergency with respect to the unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States posed by the situation in Venezuela.”

    One must understand that this language is contained in an official document issued by the White House. Nothing good can come out of a system that routinely pushes out fake ideas, falsehoods and fabrications like this. The results are cynical disregard for law, government secrecy, lack of government accountability, isolation of officials from voters, hubris among officials, hidden contempt for the public, distrust, and the encouragement for officials to employ power. Lies of this order and magnitude are poisonous.

    The order goes on to list its moral goals of punishing various accused persons for their bad behavior:

    “This new authority is aimed at persons involved in or responsible for the erosion of human rights guarantees, persecution of political opponents, curtailment of press freedoms, use of violence and human rights violations and abuses in response to antigovernment protests, and arbitrary arrest and detention of antigovernment protestors, as well as the significant public corruption by senior government officials in Venezuela.”

    Nothing could sound more reasonable, and yet nothing is less credible than this declaration. Why? Because in countless other cases the U.S. not only turns a blind eye to the same sorts of goings-on but actually fully supports them. The U.S. is currently supporting Ukraine (the Kiev junta) while its security services and certain armed forces have been torturing prisoners that they have captured. The U.S. itself engaged in torture and has not yet punished those who were responsible for it. The U.S. has employed means of warfare that produced systematic human rights violations orders of magnitude worse than anything in Venezuela. The U.S. has supported death squads in Central America. The U.S. government does little to influence despicable behavior of local police and courts within this country. The U.S. has consistently supported Saudi Arabia and nearby states that both employ practices of the same kind condemned in this order and have supported ISIS terrorists. The Obama administration has been very tough on journalists and whistleblowers, thereby chilling press freedoms.

    There has been marked instability in Venezuela and repression. Much worse repression is going on in Ukraine by its government, one that the U.S. supports and is assisting in its military efforts.

    One can only reach the conclusion that the justifications in the executive order are phony.

    This leaves us speculation as to what the real motives are. At the root of it is that the U.S. government is alarmed by the independence being exhibited by Venezuela and several other Latin American governments. Imperialism is a fundamental factor, and this requires a dominant U.S. position. There are political maneuvers in Venezuela and neighboring lands that tie directly to economic matters. For example, China has a presence in Venezuela that competes with American interests. Venezuela is a large oil producer. Venezuela is forming a Bank of the South in conjunction with Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay, Bolivia and Ecuador. These political-economic moves remind one of the moves that were being made by Gaddafi and Libya prior to their destruction by U.S. and NATO forces.

    Sanctions on Venezuelan officials are a warning. They are a slap on the wrist to warn the government of potential harsher measures. Human rights violations are a smokescreen. The real target is the government and the real objective is control of economic policies by the U.S. The U.S. does not want to see South American countries making links to such countries as China and Russia.

    The U.S. policy in Ukraine and Middle East is the very same. It seeks to break down Russian influence on its periphery, including Ukraine. Condemnations of Putin and Russian aggression are propaganda smokescreens. In the Middle East, the U.S. wants to contain Iran. In the Far East, the U.S. wants to contain China. The U.S. seeks dominance in Central Asia too, as in Afghanistan.

    8:54 am on March 14, 2015
    There is no spoon.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Maybe the Venezuela is just more vulnerable to US meddling.
    It is. Because they have no real economy of their own. Why would oil be the only thing holding up their economy? People there aren't capable of producing anything else? The inevitable failure of their socialist system made them easy prey for the U.S. government vultures.

    Not all of the countries you listed have the same exact system as Venezuela, but they are all heavily centrally planned, and predictably, the more centrally planned they are, the weaker they are and more vulnerable to U.S. interference. You'll notice that Russia is in no danger of crumbling while Venezuela is just about a failed state and North Korea isn't much further ahead.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by The Gold Standard View Post
    It is. Because they have no real economy of their own. Why would oil be the only thing holding up their economy? People there aren't capable of producing anything else? The inevitable failure of their socialist system made them easy prey for the U.S. government vultures.

    Not all of the countries you listed have the same exact system as Venezuela, but they are all heavily centrally planned, and predictably, the more centrally planned they are, the weaker they are and more vulnerable to U.S. interference. You'll notice that Russia is in no danger of crumbling while Venezuela is just about a failed state and North Korea isn't much further ahead.
    You could say the same thing about other successful economies. Saudi Arabia, Honk Kong etc etc. Do you know that about 90% of GDP produced by the Hong Kong economy comes from the service sector? of that 90% service economy, Insurance/finance, public sector services and shipping dominates the sector. A smart man might ask, can Hong Kong not produce any other product outside the service industry?

    I dunno, maybe it is something they are just really good at. I think the US minding its own business would be good for just about every economy even socialist leaning ones.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    You could say the same thing about other successful economies. Saudi Arabia, Honk Kong etc etc. Do you know that about 90% of GDP produced by the Hong Kong economy comes from the service sector? of that 90% service economy, Insurance/finance, public sector services and shipping dominates the sector. A smart man might ask, can Hong Kong not produce any other product outside the service industry?
    Hong Kong is among the most free economies in the world, so they've probably figured out that they can more efficiently offer those services in exchange for importing what they need. Saudi Arabia has a lot more oil than Venezuela and also gets billions of dollars from the U.S., otherwise they would probably have people starving to death all over the place too.

    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I think the US minding its own business would be good for just about every economy even socialist leaning ones.
    Of course it would. I didn't suggest the U.S. should be involved at all. Those people would eventually get hungry enough to kill Maduro and figure something else out.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by The Gold Standard View Post
    Hong Kong is among the most free economies in the world, so they've probably figured out that they can more efficiently offer those services in exchange for importing what they need. Saudi Arabia has a lot more oil than Venezuela and also gets billions of dollars from the U.S., otherwise they would probably have people starving to death all over the place too.

    Yea yea yea, I have heard all the hype about how free Honk Kong is, this is the same country where the govt owns all land and everyone is forced to rent or lease their land upon which every business is built from the govt. Imagine living in a place where you cannot own land. And the reason why I brought up Hong Kong is not for us to argue how free it is but to show that economies dominated by one sector business can still prosper. You said their problem was because their economy was highly dependent on other to thrive. Well, the same can be said for Hong Kong and Saudi Arabia. Both countries can be easily devastated by a well placed sanction on either country.

    Essentially, Venezuela could be Hong Kong tomorrow and would still be suffering if the US decides to attack. Also people tend to forget that Hong Kong enjoys military protection from US which enables then to survive without a military and concentrate more on their economy. On the other hand, Venezuela has to have a military and sleep with one eye open all the time. This is because the US and its hostile American captured neighbor govt will not pass on the opportunity to take it over.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Gold Standard View Post
    Of course it would. I didn't suggest the U.S. should be involved at all. Those people would eventually get hungry enough to kill Maduro and figure something else out.
    Well, they tried that method in a more socialist Libya and that day never came. The people loved Gaddafi even with the sanctions on the country, the US got so tired of waiting for the starving Libyans to kill Gaddafi that they used their Wahhabi henchmen to do the job.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Yea yea yea, I have heard all the hype about how free Honk Kong is, this is the same country where the govt owns all land and everyone is forced to rent or lease their land upon which every business is built from the govt. Imagine living in a place where you cannot own land.
    Stop paying tribute to the state here and quickly find out who really owns the land.



    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Also people tend to forget that Hong Kong enjoys military protection from US...
    Have you notified the People’s Liberation Army of this?
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  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Yea yea yea, I have heard all the hype about how free Honk Kong is, this is the same country where the govt owns all land and everyone is forced to rent or lease their land upon which every business is built from the govt. Imagine living in a place where you cannot own land. And the reason why I brought up Hong Kong is not for us to argue how free it is but to show that economies dominated by one sector business can still prosper. You said their problem was because their economy was highly dependent on other to thrive. Well, the same can be said for Hong Kong and Saudi Arabia. Both countries can be easily devastated by a well placed sanction on either country.

    Essentially, Venezuela could be Hong Kong tomorrow and would still be suffering if the US decides to attack. Also people tend to forget that Hong Kong enjoys military protection from US which enables then to survive without a military and concentrate more on their economy. On the other hand, Venezuela has to have a military and sleep with one eye open all the time. This is because the US and its hostile American captured neighbor govt will not pass on the opportunity to take it over.
    We live in a place where you can't own land. And I didn't say Hong Kong was a free economy. Just among the most free in the world. There are no free economies on Earth. And sure, sanctions would hurt them, but they would hurt us worse. Venezuela was dying long before any sanctions were put on them.

    And I said no such thing about Venezuela's economy being too dependent on others to thrive. If they had a real economy, when they realized that oil revenues weren't going to be enough to feed everyone, other opportunities would have arisen. People would have planted more crops bringing down the price and increasing the supply of food. All of the things that happen when people voluntarily do business with each other. With a central planner, the money means nothing, the price means nothing, and they have no idea if they need to plant more crops or if it's more important to pump out more oil or what.

    That's why socialism is impossible to sustain in the real world. It can last until the government squanders the resources to the point that the people can't survive any more. And that's why places like Saudi Arabia can hang on a while longer. They have more oil, and the United States subsidizes their economy anyway, just like European economies. When the U.S. can no longer afford to do that, those will spiral out of control too.

    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Well, they tried that method in a more socialist Libya and that day never came. The people loved Gaddafi even with the sanctions on the country, the US got so tired of waiting for the starving Libyans to kill Gaddafi that they used their Wahhabi henchmen to do the job.
    I can tell how beloved he was by how fiercely they fought for their leader instead of fighting each other for control after he was dead. But of course they would prefer Gaddafi to the U.S. imposing a different dictator on them. I don't know what that has to do with Venezuela. I'm sure they would rather have the devil they know too.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Stop paying tribute to the state here and quickly find out who really owns the land.
    True, also a quick way to find out who really owns most of the guns. Psst, its still the govt


    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Have you notified the People’s Liberation Army of this?
    Thanks for the correction, but my point is still valid, they are protected for free from outside aggression and hence need no standing army. Socialist leaning Venezuela is not so lucky.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by The Gold Standard View Post
    We live in a place where you can't own land. And I didn't say Hong Kong was a free economy. Just among the most free in the world. There are no free economies on Earth. And sure, sanctions would hurt them, but they would hurt us worse. Venezuela was dying long before any sanctions were put on them.
    I don't know where u live but I can own property in the part of the US, yes you are made to pay property taxes but your lease/rent cannot be revoked if you pay the property tax. That is really different from rent/leasing land. I think the US has been attacking the Venezuelan people long before their economy collapsed. I don't have proof so please don't ask me to produce one, its a hunch.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Gold Standard View Post
    And I said no such thing about Venezuela's economy being too dependent on others to thrive. If they had a real economy, when they realized that oil revenues weren't going to be enough to feed everyone, other opportunities would have arisen. People would have planted more crops bringing down the price and increasing the supply of food. All of the things that happen when people voluntarily do business with each other. With a central planner, the money means nothing, the price means nothing, and they have no idea if they need to plant more crops or if it's more important to pump out more oil or what.
    I thought my the term "real economy" that was what you meant. And yea, maybe they could have started producing enough food to feed their economy but maybe its taking them a while to get there and maybe sanctions hurt with that effort. Nobody could tell what could have happened if the all powerful US weren't trying to undermine the country.

    Btw, Hitler was a very good city planner who brought Germany out of a deep deep hyperinflation recession. So don't tell me a city planner couldn't have worked things out.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Gold Standard View Post
    That's why socialism is impossible to sustain in the real world. It can last until the government squanders the resources to the point that the people can't survive any more. And that's why places like Saudi Arabia can hang on a while longer. They have more oil, and the United States subsidizes their economy anyway, just like European economies. When the U.S. can no longer afford to do that, those will spiral out of control too.
    The US subsidizes the Saudi economy? how is that? if anything, it is the other way around. The Saudis subsidize the US economy in exchange for ability to buy US weapons and military know how to they use to subjugate their people and neighbours. Mixed economies like you have in Venezuela is actually very sustainable regardless of whatever some people will like to tell you. It just gets a hard time with sanctions and sabotage in place

    Quote Originally Posted by The Gold Standard View Post
    I can tell how beloved he was by how fiercely they fought for their leader instead of fighting each other for control after he was dead. But of course they would prefer Gaddafi to the U.S. imposing a different dictator on them. I don't know what that has to do with Venezuela. I'm sure they would rather have the devil they know too.
    They fought valiantly for 8 months until they couldn't fight anymore. The people who were used to attack the country were mainly foreigners from neighbouring countries and a few local opportunist looking to be king. And yes, these people are in every country, it doesn't matter how nice, fair and how just Gaddafi ruled, there would always be people trying to take power from him.



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  23. #49
    A court in Aruba lifted liens on two oil cargoes that ConocoPhillips put in place in an effort to collect its $2 billion arbitration award, Reuters reported May 23. The court said that the oil cargoes did not belong to Venezeula's state-owned energy company Petroleos de Venezuela (PDVSA), but to Citgo Petroleum Corp., it's U.S. refining subsidiary.

    More at: https://worldview.stratfor.com/situa...venezuelan-oil
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #50

  25. #51
    Crisis-hit cash-strapped Venezuela has stopped payments due to the overseas arm of India’s top oil explorer for a joint Venezuelan project, which has resulted in the Latin American country piling debt of US$444 million to the Indian company.
    ONGC Videsh Ltd (OVL), the overseas unit of India’s Oil and Natural Gas Corporation (ONGC), holds 40 percent in the San Cristobal energy project in Venezuela, while state firm PDVSA owns the remaining 60 percent.
    “They paid us three installments and have not paid any money for more than six months,” OVL’s managing director Narendra Verma said at a news conference.
    According to OVL, Venezuela’s PDVSA has not paid dividends from the project to the Indian firm between 2009 and 2013, while no dividends have been declared after that.
    In November 2016, the Indian company signed a deal with PDVSA for the Venezuelan firm to clear the sum it owes in installments.
    “We received three installments totaling $88 million but subsequent ones have stopped,” Verma told reporters.
    “We want them to honour the agreement (to pay past dues) as the financing of the project is linked to that. Otherwise, the project will die,” the manager said.
    As part of the ‘payment in installments deal’ from 2016, OVL agreed to help PDVSA to raise US$318 million financing for the San Cristobal project, while the Venezuelan company agreed to supply 17,000 bpd of crude oil in order to repay the US$537 million owed to OVL.
    “We are telling them to allot oil for us in lieu of the dues,” OVL’s Verma said on Thursday.

    More at: https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-N...Owes-444M.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #52
    Venezuela’s state oil company PDVSA has told eight foreign clients it will be unable to supply the contracted volumes of crude oil, a company employee told S&P Platts.
    "Among the affected clients due to the low availability of crude to export are Nynas, Tipco, Chevron, CNPC, Reliance, Conoco, Valero, and Lukoil, which will partially receive the volumes established by the contracts," the person said.
    The amount the company will not be able to supply is close to half of the total committed volumes of this grade, Merey 16, for June. It only has 578,000 bpd of the grade available, while the total contracted volume is 1.271 million barrels daily. PDVSA’s total crude commitments for the month stand at 1.495 million bpd, but it only has 694,000 bpd available.

    More at: https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oi...ligations.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #53
    Venezuela might have to declare force majeure on its oil exports as production plunges and its ports are unable to ship enough crude. The ongoing meltdown in Venezuela’s oil sector could tighten the oil market more than expected.
    Reuters reported Tuesday that Venezuela is considering declaring force majeure, a legal declaration made in extraordinary circumstances to basically get out of contractual obligations. In other words, Venezuela’s PDVSA is essentially prepared to say that it can’t supply the oil that it promised.


    It is no surprise that Venezuela has fallen short on the shipments it has promised, but the figures are staggering. In April, Venezuela only shipped 1.49 million barrels per day of oil and fuels, or 665,000 bpd below what it had contracted, according to Reuters. That means that some customers are missing out on cargo. For instance, in April, PDVSA shorted its subsidiary Citgo nearly all of what it had promised – 273,000 bpd.
    The problems for Venezuela continue to mount, and the news that it is considering force majeure points to a more catastrophic decline in production and exports. PDVSA "in the best case only has about 695,000 b/d of crude supply available for export in June," a marketing division executive within the company told Argus Media.

    “[PDVSA] has a critical structural problem that cannot be fixed in a few weeks or even a few months, because the core problem is that Venezuela's crude production has dropped far beneath the volumes we are contracted to deliver,” a company executive told Argus. “We simply aren't producing enough crude, and we don't have the cash flow to compensate by purchasing crude from third parties to meet our supply commitments. Our greatest operational concern right now is that production continues to fall and our export supply volumes also will continue to decline as a result.”
    As a result, the force majeure on shipments seems unavoidable, unless that is, customers simply take a haircut and accept lower volumes. A PDVSA source told Argus Media that companies that don’t accept lower volumes could see all of their shipments suspended. That sounds like a threat, but it is PDVSA that is in the state of crisis, not buyers from China, India or the U.S.

    Customers are already reporting problems with shipments. A Japanese trading house told S&P Global Platts this week that it has been unable to load up on Venezuelan oil under a loan-for-oil deal. "There is no cargo made available to lift," said the source.
    Several diplomats from China and India told Argus that refiners from their countries are looking elsewhere for oil shipments in the months ahead, on the expectation that cargoes from Venezuela continue to decline. Independent refiners from China are looking at heavy crude sources such as Mexico’s Maya, Colombia’s Castilla, and Canada’s Cold Lake Blend, according to S&P Global Platts.

    More at: https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oi...es-Belief.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  28. #54
    ConocoPhillips has won a court ruling allowing it to depose Citgo, the U.S. unit of troubled Venezuelan state oil company PDVSA, Reuters reports. The move is part of Conoco’s offensive against PDVSA in a bid to enforce a court ruling that awarded it US$2 billion in compensation for the forced nationalization of company assets in Venezuela.
    So far, as part of the effort to enforce the ruling, Conoco has seized a number of PDVSA assets in the Caribbean, adding to the company’s already substantial woes and trouble with fulfilling its export contracts. With oil production at the lowest in decades and with no cash to increase it, PDVSA is struggling, and Conoco is not pulling any punches.
    The U.S. supermajor has alleged that PDVSA has transferred crude oil and oil products from a refinery and a storage facility in Curacao to Citgo in an attempt to prevent Conoco from seizing it, as it seized other assets and oil inventory in the Caribbean. It also claimed that PDVSA had told Citgo to claim ownership of several cargos docked at Aruba to avoid having them seized by Conoco.
    Assets already seized by the supermajor include a 10-million-barrel storage facility on the island of Bonair, fuel inventories on Curacao, and two tankers in Aruba, one carrying 500,000 barrels of oil and the other with 300,000 barrels of jet fuel.

    More at: https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-N...eposition.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  29. #55
    PDVSA settled with ConocoPhillips on Monday over an outstanding debt issue, a move that the Venezuelan oil company surely hopes will give it some breathing room even as the nation continues to crumble.
    Earlier this year, Conoco won an international arbitration award resulting from the 2007 assets seizure by Venezuela. Conoco quickly moved to lay claim to PDVSA’s refining assets in the Dutch Caribbean, a devastating blow to Venezuela that compounded fiscal and operational problems. Without the processing facilities on the islands of Curacao and Aruba, PDVSA’s oil exports plunged deeper in the second quarter.
    Venezuela’s revolutionary government has made it a point of pride to resist outside pressure, which makes the latest settlement all the more remarkable. PDVSA has agreed to pay ConocoPhillips an initial $500 million within 90 days, which will then be followed by quarterly payments over the next four and a half years.
    The fact that PDVSA agreed to the settlement is a testament to how much of a crisis the company (and ultimately the Venezuelan government) finds itself in, and how important those Caribbean assets are to ongoing operations. Venezuela’s oil production continues to decline. In July, output fell to just 1.278 million barrels per day (mb/d), down 500,000 bpd from the fourth quarter of last year and down nearly 1 mb/d from two years ago. A growing number of analysts see output dipping below the 1-million-barrel-per-day mark by the end of 2018.
    The deal comes as the U.S.-based subsidiary of PDVSA, Citgo, is also in the spotlight. A recent court ruling in a separate case exposed Citgo to asset seizure. Canadian miner Crystallex won a case just this month against PDVSA, arguing that Citgo, as a subsidiary of PDVSA, was essentially the same company as PDVSA, which means that Citgo was eligible for asset seizure. A U.S. federal judge agreed, putting Citgo in jeopardy. Citgo is appealing the decision.
    PDVSA’s settlement with Conoco could get the American oil company of its back, so long as payments are forthcoming. That could potentially relieve some operational pressure. Presumably, PDVSA could regain control of the facilities on the Caribbean, which should allow for oil exports to resume at higher levels.

    But the settlement does not mean that PDVSA is out of the woods, by any means. First, the payments will be painful and hard to meet. The $2 billion that PDVSA owes ConocoPhillips amounts to about a quarter of the cash reserves that Venezuela’s central bank still has left. If the Venezuelan oil company fails to meet the terms of the settlement, Conoco “can resume global enforcement actions,” Daren Beaudo, a Conoco spokesman, told Bloomberg in an email.
    Second, it does little to assuage the long line of creditors who are not part of the deal. Indeed, they could begin to fight for the remaining crumbs as the country falls apart.

    More at: https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-G...p-Decline.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #56
    I have been waiting for Danke to fly me to Bonair . I have a few things stashed there I probably ought to pick up .
    Do something Danke



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Venezuela just like most economies is a mixed economy and that was the point he was trying to make as opposed to the idiots who go around calling it a socialist paradise. Found this article from fox news.



    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/07...z-crusade.html

    Don't you think its a bit weird that a socialist country has 66% + of their economy still controlled by private sector? Sorry, I don't have some scholar analysis for you to read. All the stuff I get is from wikipedia, articles and videos from youtube.
    Don't you ever get tired of being wrong? These "private" companies are private in name only. They are forced by the oppressive and large government to run their business the way the government wants. They can't even set their own prices thanks to price controls.

    You should move to your socialist utopia of Venezuela.
    "Countries are benefited when they changed these [national sovereignty] policies, and evidence suggests that North Americans are ready for a new relationship that renders this old definition of sovereignty obsolete."

    CFR task force co-chairman Robert Pastor

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