Re: Ron Paul's "border fence" statement

[cavalier973]

There seems to be a general consensus among the conservative blogheads that Ron Paul’s assertion that a government-erected border fence might possibly be used against us is just more evidence of “Crazy Uncle Ron’s” weirdness.
I suppose one day, when these contemptible buffoons are shoved into a chair, and have a rat cage forced onto their heads, they’ll finally be hit with the epiphany that the Federal Government (more than Islamic radicals ever could) hates us for our freedoms.
Their protestation that they want to limit government ring false; they, as much as any prog, want greater government control over our lives. They fear possible threats more than they fear the real threat of governmment power. And they’re quite willing to hand over to the government more power to “keep us safe” from illegal immigrants.

Illegal immigrants aren’t forcing us to be strip-searched at airports. Illegal immigrants aren’t trying to throw us in jail for killing a grizzly bear that threatened our families (and then letting us off with a “mere” $1,000 fine). Illegal immigrants aren’t subjecting our small businesses with onerous regulation. Illegal immigrants haven’t tried to centralize the national health care system under government control. That’s all the fine work of our own government.

These so-called conservatives are like a man who, in order to protect himself from potential burglars, invites a serial killer to move in.

And when “Crazy Uncle Ron” expresses alarm over endless foreign wars, they mock him as being uninterested in national defense. Well, the strongest national defense we could possibly have is an armed populace, and possibly a missile defense shield. An invincible Federal Army does not make us safer from itself. Endless foreign wars do not make us safer from our own government. Every war in which this nation has entered has seen a rescinding of American liberties, liberties which were only partially restored at each war’s end. Now, the FedGov has the perfect war–one which can never be won, and so must always be waged, and in which liberties need never be restored.

[specsaregood]

When half the country is screaming and demanding that the government "tax the rich", I fail to see how Dr. Paul is crazy for suggesting that our government might use border controls to keep people and their money in the country in the event of a major economic crisis.

[archangel689]

I just find it hypocritical to praise Ronald Reagan for "Tear this wall down" then immediately start talking about building a border fence.

[IDefendThePlatform]

WWII we had internment camps right here in America.

[cavalier973]

Here's what he said:
“The people that want big fences and guns, sure, we could secure the border,” the congressman noted. “A barbed wire fence with machine guns, that would do the trick. I don’t believe that is what America is all about.”

“Every time you think about this toughness on the border and ID cards and REAL IDs, think it’s a penalty against the American people too. I think this fence business is designed and may well be used against us and keep us in. In economic turmoil, the people want to leave with their capital and there’s capital controls and there’s people controls. Every time you think about the fence, think about the fences being used against us, keeping us in.”

[NFlaGator]

Yes, I believe those fences could one day be a detriment. If anyone thinks our govenment isn't prepared to arrest us for ANY reason they want to classify as terrorism, or a threat to national security, please wake up soon. Dr. Paul has been fighting for our liberties, rights and freedoms for a long time, certainly long enough for him to be privy to the 'ugly' side of government. Anyone remember the Iran-Contra affair? Here's a reminder...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/24621067/R...ld-July-5-1987

And yes, there are detainment facilities in every state, (some states have several large facilities) capable of housing thousands of people. Many are NEW and perhaps could be very useful in the event of a major disaster. But since I don't recall FEMA offer up the Louisiana facilities following the Katrina disaster, maybe they are just waiting for the civil unrest that will eventually take place if those people (ALL of them) in Washington don't get their act together. Again, something that could be used for good can also be a detriment.

[CaptainAmerica]

people who think a fence is going to fix the nation have their head up their ass. You can't put a bandage over a broken bone and expect a person to get well. The suppression of the problem (the problem being entitlements, bad economic regulations,taxation and war on drugs) by raising a fence will never fix anything.

[AFPVet]

people who think a fence is going to fix the nation have their head up their ass. You can't put a bandage over a broken bone and expect a person to get well. The suppression of the problem (the problem being entitlements, bad economic regulations,taxation and war on drugs) by raising a fence will never fix anything.

Amen. Unorganized militia units have been the only difference between the cartels and the governments of many border towns. Where is this on the news? Fences won't matter... it's putting patrols out there which will effect results. There are already fences... they just tunnel under them.

[ProIndividual]

They already made it (illegally) harder to get a passport...Freedom Watch did a quick segment on it. Also, from experience, it's getting harder to move out this country. I've been planning a move since June, and It's easily going to take another month to get everything okayed for permanant residence due to bereaucracy and American govt pressure on the country I'm moving to, to slow things down to a snails pace. That's okay though, I'm not leaving until next June, or if Ron get's nominated, next November after I vote.

So it's already begun...they are going to stop the already in process Exodus. The State depends on it's host (it is a parasite), and can't have all the taxpayers leaving.

[Zap!]

This is why I'm a Pat Buchanan paleo-con first and a Ron Paul libertarian second. Pat supports watchtowers with armed guards and landmines at the border. Cool.

[Aratus]

forgive me for not opining sooner --- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMnLoOnrwbg --- this is a VERY famous song!

[sickmint79]

i'd focus on the capital controls part of his answer to this question.

[Dsylexic]

ron paul is ahead of the curve here.he is reporting what he sees ahead on the road to serfdom.unfortunately most of the country is still in la la land.the proverbial frog in the boiling pot. no wonder people find it bizzare. wish paul could speak in the lingo of the masses.his message is fine and makes perfect sense to those who can think 10 steps ahead.not for the rest of the zombies

[Revolution9]

If you want to kill an ecosystem just put a fence or railroad across it. A fence stops the migration of larger animals or limits feeding ranges and iron seems to suck the energies right out of arable land as in the dust bowl. The bottom line though is America, as I was taught as a youth, is not a place surrounded by barbed wire with machine gun toting guards but a land of opportunity and liberty where Andy of Mayberry was the local law enforcement and the goon squad was given one bullet. When you were born it was just fine to put your name in the family Bible without a CUSIP Berth/Birth Certificate, chase them danged revenooers off yer property with a salt shotgun, and toss a good ole John Wayne right cross to the jaw of any reprobate who didn't know how to mind his proper manners.

Rev9

[Krugerrand]

Considering that we already have "border patrol" doing unconstitutional road blocks completely away from the border, I don't see how anybody can refute that this 'security' works against us.

[XNavyNuke]

Ignorance of our own United States history is the only reason why a person would conclude that our government would never use border controls to prevent crossing into adjacent countries. Use the draft dodgers and deserters from the Vietnam war as an example, or those of German ancestry crossing into Mexico prior to, and during, WW1. Google News these periods and learn what was really happening. Don't believe the crap the public education establishment passes off as US history.

XNN

[truthspeaker]

Amen. Unorganized militia units have been the only difference between the cartels and the governments of many border towns. Where is this on the news? Fences won't matter... it's putting patrols out there which will effect results. There are already fences... they just tunnel under them.

Are you referencing to the Minute Men? Or are there others?

[R3volutionJedi]

I loved the border fence comment!

[AFPVet]

Are you referencing to the Minute Men? Or are there others?

I believe there are many groups (named and unnamed).

[Brett85]

This is why I'm a Pat Buchanan paleo-con first and a Ron Paul libertarian second. Pat supports watchtowers with armed guards and landmines at the border. Cool.

I agree. Even though you'll get attacked for saying this here, I'm pretty wary of Ron's position on the immigration issue. I wouldn't care if Ron said that he opposed the fence, as long as he said how he would secure the border as an alternative. But he didn't do that at all in the debate, and he came across as being very soft on immigration. This was an issue that we could've used against Rick Perry, because Perry has a very weak record on the immigration issue. But Ron's position on this issue isn't any better than Perry's from what I can see. I'm still going to support Ron Paul in the race, simply because the other candidates are all so bad. I can't support one of these candidates who support perpetual war in the middle east. But I still have concerns over Ron's stance on the immigration issue, and I sent an email to the campaign addressing my concerns. I hope that they respond to my email. In all honestly, if somebody like Pat Buchanan was in the race, I would support him instead of Ron.

[Aratus]

!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMnLoOnrwbg

!

[Johnny Appleseed]

Hello! Mexico [censored] sucks! Until there comes a time when Mexico doesn't [censored] suck we will have an illegal immigration problem.

[TonyMcAuliffe]

Here in Germany we had the Berlin Wall. The sovjets said it was an anti-fascist-protection wall but in reality it was a giant prison.
The people were poor because of the communist planned-market crap. Many people died by trying to flee. They were shot by their own people.
They got the "StaSi" (Staatssicherheit, translated "Homeland Security"). It was an agency to destroy the opposition. They had millions of agents in this little country (for example Angela Merkel).
These things can be used and i think they will be used to hold a broken system together.

[Bruno]

Here in Germany we had the Berlin Wall. The sovjets said it was an anti-fascist-protection wall but in reality it was a giant prison.
The people were poor because of the communist planned-market crap. Many people died by trying to flee. They were shot by their own people.
They got the "StaSi" (Staatssicherheit, translated "Homeland Security"). It was an agency to destroy the opposition. They had millions of agents in this little country.
These things can be used and i think they will be used to hold a broken system together.

+ 1, excellent first post and welcome!

[erowe1]

Hello! Mexico [censored] sucks! Until there comes a time when Mexico doesn't [censored] suck we will have an illegal immigration problem.

If we made immigration legal, then we wouldn't have an illegal immigration problem.

[Brett85]

If we made immigration legal, then we wouldn't have an illegal immigration problem.

It's already legal, but obviously there has to be a limit to it. We couldn't handle allowing 20 million people to come here every year.

[erowe1]

It's already legal, but obviously there has to be a limit to it. We couldn't handle allowing 20 million people to come here every year.

Why not?

[johnrocks]

I have found out this since 2007, no matter what Ron Paul supports or opposes and no matter how small government he is, the Hannity/Limbaugh cheerleading section will find a reason to dismiss him and no matter how big government the others;from Perry to Romney; they will find a reason to defend them or dismiss the evidence.


It boils down to foreign policy, he could be for a 1000 foot high concrete fence with a guard posted every ten yards and they would still oppose Ron Paul, need to get new blood in the GOP because trying to convince a bunch of neo cons;might convince a few; is a waste of time.

[WilliamC]

This is why I'm a Pat Buchanan paleo-con first and a Ron Paul libertarian second. Pat supports watchtowers with armed guards and landmines at the border. Cool.

Jut so long as I can have my AA-12 you can have your fences and guard towers.

But you best be prepared to open the gate when I want to get through 'cause unless it's your private property I'm as much in charge of them as you are.



(And the road becomes my bride)

And the road becomes my bride
I have stripped of all but pride
So in her I do confide
And she keeps me satisfied
Gives me all I need

And with dust in throat I crave
Only knowledge will I save
To the game you stay a slave

Rover, wanderer
Nomad, vagabond
Call me what you will

But I'll take my time anywhere
Free to speak my mind anywhere
And I'll redefine anywhere

Anywhere I roam
Where I lay my head is home

(And the earth becomes my throne)

And the earth becomes my throne
I adapt to the unknown
Under wandering stars I've grown
By myself but not alone
I ask no one

And my ties are severed clean
Less I have the more I gain
Off the beaten path I reign

Rover, wanderer
Nomad, vagabond
Call me what you will

But I'll take my time anywhere
I'm free to speak my mind anywhere
and I'll take my time anywhere

Anywhere I roam
Where I lay my head is home
YE' YEAH

But I'll take my time anywhere
I'm free to speak my mind
And I'll take my time anywhere

Anywhere I may roam
Where I lay my head is home
I say!

But I'll take my time anywhere
I'm free to speak my mind anywhere
And I'll redefine anywhere

Anywhere I may roam
Where I lay my head is home

Carved upon my stone
My body lies, but still I roam,
Yeah yeah!

Wherever I may roam
Wherever I may roam
Woah

Wherever I may roam
Wherever I may roam
Yeah!

Wherever I may wander, wander, wander
Wherever I may roam

Yeah, yeah, wherever I may roam

Yeah, yeah, wherever I may roam
Wherever I may roam
Wherever I may roam

[WilliamC]

If we made immigration legal, then we wouldn't have an illegal immigration problem.

Immigration is legal, duh.

I've worked with folks from several countries migrated here and who have become US citizens.

Legally.

Of all the functions of government perhaps the most basic is securing it's territory from foreign invasion.