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Thread: *THE* FREE SPEECH BATTLE OF OUR TIME

  1. #1

    *THE* FREE SPEECH BATTLE OF OUR TIME



    People and sites are being shut down left and right. Actually, I take that back: just right.

    But seriously. This problem is getting over-the-top, unbelievably bad. Now these are nominally private companies doing the de-platforming. So we're supposed to be all for it, yadda yadda yadda. But practical reality has to matter, too. If it doesn't, if your principles have no connection with and no bearing on practical reality, what good are they?

    Seriously, tell me that. What good are they?

    This is the practical reality of the situation: to communicate ideas effectively in the modern age requires the internet. It requires, specifically, a Facebook and Twitter presence. If these companies lock you out, you're dead in the water. It also requires that people be able to find you. If Google delists you from their search results: that's it. You're dead in the water. Super dead.

    "But, but!" you say. But you can still have a website! Anyone can have a website and say anything they choose. Google's a private company and doesn't have to show your site. Facebook's a private company and doesn't have to let you on their network. That's fine if they lock you out: just have your own website. Phew! Problem solved! The internet is still free! Sounds great, but this is not true in this day and age. You cannot have your own website. You most certainly cannot have a website and say anything you choose. In today's day and age, the threats and infrastructure of the internet have evolved such to require the assistance and cooperation of mega-corporations.

    There exists today on the internet a threat called the DDOS (distributed denial of service) attack. It is easy and cheap to launch such an attack. But to defend against it is extremely difficult and expensive. This asymmetry means that to have a website that can survive unpopularity, one requires the assistance of a big company that specialized in defending against DDOS attacks. If you just set up a server in your closet, the first time someone decides they don't like your views, or even just randomly decides to attack you: you're hosed.

    So you can't even have a website.

    There is no such thing as an independent web presence.

    This is a fundamental problem rooted in the infrastructure of the internet, and one that we are currently working on solving via an ambitious project called Urbit. It's a technical problem, and so it can be solved technically.

    But it is also a social and cultural problem. The power to whine to people's employers about their views to attempt to get them fired has always existed. That is not a new power. It was always there -- in theory. It's just that nobody used it because it's obviously stinking despicable! Nobody was so deeply and rabidly r-selected that those biological drives overcame their basic decency and humanity. Nobody was willing to go destroy someone's life and take away their livelihood in service of their r-selected mania, because they wouldn't be able to look themselves in the mirror if they did that. Well, no one but Saul Alinsky & disciples (e.g. Hillary Clinton).

    Now, we've progressed much further. An eighth of the population is Saul Alinsky. The leftists third-worldists cannot disagree with someone's opinions and still have sympathy for them as a fellow human being. That is over. Long gone. They've forked into a different sub-species.

    At the same time, keep in mind the left third-worldists have all the power. They control all or virtually all the institutions of power and import. So here you have the ruling group of society, and they've gone biologically haywire and are attacking large -- very large -- portions of the society they rule.

    What happens next?



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  3. #2
    I don't use any social media at all and people treat me like I'm an unscannable. Whaaaat how are we going to hang out if I can't message you on facebook?!

    A savage barbaric tribal society where thugs parade the streets and illegally assault and murder innocent civilians, yeah that is the alternative to having police. Oh wait, that is the police

    We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.
    - Edward R. Murrow

    ...I think we have moral obligations to disobey unjust laws, because non-cooperation with evil is as much as a moral obligation as cooperation with good. - MLK Jr.

    How to trigger a liberal: "I didn't get vaccinated."

  4. #3
    Morris Dees approves....

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Morris Dees approves....
    One of these days I'm going to find out who died and made him king.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  6. #5
    From Drudge;


    Mainstream conservative groups alarmed to be found on ‘hate map’

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...rvative-organ/

    Brad Dacus was thousands of miles away in California last weekend when the Charlottesville protest erupted, so he was flabbergasted when CNN labeled his Pacific Justice Institute a “hate group.”
    “Here are all the active hate groups where you live,” said the CNN wire story headline on Chicago’s WGN-TV website.
    The article listed the 917 organizations on the Southern Poverty Law Center’s much-disputed “hate map,” which names racist groups like the Aryan Nation alongside mainstream conservative organizations such as the Alliance Defending Freedom and the Family Research Council.
    Mr. Dacus’ conservative Sacramento-based institute, which specializes in religious-liberty cases, was featured on the CNN list right below the Pacific Coast Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
    “Why is the Southern Poverty Law Center doing this? It’s simple. They want to vilify and isolate anyone that doesn’t agree with their very extremist leftist policy and ideology,” said Mr. Dacus. “This isn’t about defending civil rights; this is about attacking civil rights.”


    Mr. Dacus’ conservative Sacramento-based institute, which specializes in religious-liberty cases, was featured on the CNN list right below the Pacific Coast Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
    “Why is the Southern Poverty Law Center doing this? It’s simple. They want to vilify and isolate anyone that doesn’t agree with their very extremist leftist policy and ideology,” said Mr. Dacus. “This isn’t about defending civil rights; this is about attacking civil rights.”
    Other conservative groups blasted CNN and called on the cable network to retract the article.

  7. #6
    I don't have a huge problem with Baked Alaska getting banned from the Uber platform.. he got in an Uber with his white nationalist buddy and a black female driver and they started saying blatently racist stuff while going to a white nationalist event.. Then he claimed he was just sitting in the back quiet and they banned him for being white, lol..

    But ya apparently he is now in the hospital, he got sprayed in the eyes with acid by antifa in Cville and may be going blind.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  8. #7
    I mean, this is how a true free market would work. The consumer/user is going to put overwhelming pressure on companies, and they're going to capitulate because they don't want to lose a significant amount of their business or endure the extremely negative press. In fact, this is the only strong argument you have if you want to convince people that Title II of the CRA isn't necessary in the future. If you find yourself disagreeing with the principles of the free market, you were never truly taking a principled stand, rather one you figured would uphold your personal views above all else.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Antischism View Post
    I mean, this is how a true free market would work. The consumer/user is going to put overwhelming pressure on companies, and they're going to capitulate because they don't want to lose a significant amount of their business or endure the extremely negative press. In fact, this is the only strong argument you have if you want to convince people that Title II of the CRA isn't necessary in the future. If you find yourself disagreeing with the principles of the free market, you were never truly taking a principled stand, rather one you figured would uphold your personal views above all else.
    ....or it is a conspiracy of cultural marxists who are in power

    I mean, to some extent you are right. Just like I agreed Baked Alaska should have been banned from uber. But the media mis-reporting and misrepresenting and putting a modified version up of the memo the guy at google sent out is a lot different, especially when everything he said in the memo was factually correct.

    When the 'free market' starts banning facts, you have to consider what else might be going on.
    Last edited by dannno; 08-18-2017 at 01:02 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  11. #9
    Told you so...been bitching about the nexus of personal information databases, free speech and corporate spying for years now.

    Allow me to be the voice of the new boss:

    "Here's how you handle this: you shut the $#@! up, you play nice and you keep your opinions to yourself.

    You white people especially, you're all racist and you are all under suspicion (that includes fellow travelers and Uncle Toms).

    One wrong move out of you and you're done, the mob will be at your home, your job will gone, your business destroyed, your property trashed and the cops, who know exactly which side their bread is buttered on, will sit on their hands and not do a $#@!ing thing.

    Move the $#@! along now."

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Antischism View Post
    I mean, this is how a true free market would work. The consumer/user is going to put overwhelming pressure on companies, and they're going to capitulate because they don't want to lose a significant amount of their business or endure the extremely negative press. In fact, this is the only strong argument you have if you want to convince people that Title II of the CRA isn't necessary in the future. If you find yourself disagreeing with the principles of the free market, you were never truly taking a principled stand, rather one you figured would uphold your personal views above all else.
    This is not a real free market, the public is not pushing this garbage, the elites are.
    However the solution lies in reducing government regulations/subsidizations that feed GOOGLAG and these other monsters and protect them from competition.

    P.S. I would consider supporting a "Free speech" web-hosting/search engine/file hosting service as a part of the post office, they would be the ones to run a "net neutrality" ISP as well.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Antischism View Post
    I mean, this is how a true free market would work. The consumer/user is going to put overwhelming pressure on companies, and they're going to capitulate because they don't want to lose a significant amount of their business or endure the extremely negative press. In fact, this is the only strong argument you have if you want to convince people that Title II of the CRA isn't necessary in the future. If you find yourself disagreeing with the principles of the free market, you were never truly taking a principled stand, rather one you figured would uphold your personal views above all else.
    Oh sure. Free market. And the Imperial Japanese Thought Police, and the Salem Witch Trials, were just the free market at work too.

    This isn't the free market. This is people trying to deprive other people of the right to think for themselves, using any spy service and any lever they can find to do it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Antischism View Post
    I mean, this is how a true free market would work. The consumer/user is going to put overwhelming pressure on companies, and they're going to capitulate because they don't want to lose a significant amount of their business or endure the extremely negative press. In fact, this is the only strong argument you have if you want to convince people that Title II of the CRA isn't necessary in the future. If you find yourself disagreeing with the principles of the free market, you were never truly taking a principled stand, rather one you figured would uphold your personal views above all else.
    If this were the case there would be a counter organization to the SPLC that was given equal billing in both government and the MSM...

    Maybe call it the "Anti-Forced Diversity Law Center" ?

    They'd of course be vindicated in calling out 'hate' by those who believed differently than they do....

    Then they'd be given the authority to label groups of people as 'terrorists' and not be held liable because of the public service they offered....

    A motto..........."Keep Little Italy Italian" support the AFDLC

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    P.S. I would consider supporting a "Free speech" web-hosting/search engine/file hosting service as a part of the post office, they would be the ones to run a "net neutrality" ISP as well.
    You just keep on adding more things to the list of things that government should do...

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    You just keep on adding more things to the list of things that government should do...
    The transfer of information is the job of the post office.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #15
    You're definitely missing quite a few. I'm glad somebody is compiling a list though. I hope everyone is downloading content too, and hoarding books. Things are about to get real in 2020 when there's a Dem back in the White House.

  18. #16
    *THE* FREE SPEECH BATTLE OF OUR TIME




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