Happy Killdozer Day!

[Danke]

June 4th, 2021 marks the 17th anniversary of the Killdozer's rampage through Granby, Colorado.


Sit down kids, and let me tell you a tale. A tale about a reasonable man driven to do unreasonable things.

Marvin Heemeyer was a man who owned a muffler shop in Granby, Colorado. The city council ordained to approve the construction of a concrete factory in the lot across from Marvin's shop. In the process, this blocked the only access road to the muffler shop. Marvin petitioned to stop the construction to no avail. He petitioned to construct a new access road, and even bought the heavy machinery to do so himself. Denied.

The concrete factory went up in disregard to the ramifications on Marvin's business. To add insult to injury, the factory construction disconnected the muffler shop from the city sewage lines. An indifferent city government then chose to fine Marvin for this.

His business and livelihood were in ruin. Rather than lie down and die, Marvin chose to fight back. Over the course of a year and a half, Marvin secretly outfitted the bulldozer he bought to save his business with 3-foot thick steel and concrete armor, camera systems, and enclosed bulletproof glass.

On June 4th, 2004 Marvin Heemeyer lowered the armored shell over top of himself, entombing himself inside the Killdozer to make his last stand.

He burst forth from the walls of his muffler shop and straight into the concrete factory that ruined his business. Over the course of the next several hours, Marvin drove his Killdozer through 13 buildings owned by those officials that had wronged him, including the city council building itself.

SWAT teams swarmed the dozer, but it proved immune to small arms fire and even explosives. Another piece of heavy machinery was even brought out to fight the Killdozer, but it too fell to the dozers righteous fury.

In the end, Marvin's Killdozer became trapped in one of the buildings it was built to destroy. Marvin chose to take his life, the only life he took that day.

Today, we celebrate Killdozer Day and Marvin Heemeyer, the last great American folk hero. A man driven to the brink who chose to fight back against an indifferent system.

From notes left behind after his passing:
"I was always willing to be reasonable until I had to be unreasonable. Sometimes reasonable men must do unreasonable things."

HAPPY KILLDOZER DAY!

[TheTexan]

I want one

[Anti Federalist]

I want one

I already got one.

[TheTexan]

I already got one.

Could probably convert the white house into a parking lot with 2 or 3 of those. Maybe even just 1 if you're clever.

Theoretically of course. Definitely wouldn't ever plan such a thing.

[TheTexan]

Another wild theoretical, you could hook it up via remote control, before bulldozing the white house.

Theoretically of course.

[Anti Federalist]

Another wild theoretical, you could hook it up via remote control, before bulldozing the white house.

Theoretically of course.

An old one with manual controls would be a problem.

A new computerized one would be a piece of cake...could rig that up in an afternoon.

[Krugminator2]

Never heard of this guy. Googled him and watching the Netflix doc called Tread from this thread right now.

[Anti Federalist]

Never heard of this guy. Googled him and watching the Netflix doc called Tread from this thread right now.

Enjoy.

Then watch the classic Clint Eastwood film, The Gauntlet.

[Krugminator2]

Still watching this. Was ready to be on this guys side because I know local city governments can be insanely corrupt with zoning. The guy bought a cheap landlocked property for $42k at a foreclosure auction. The person who owned the surrounding property wanted to put a concrete factory on the property which would obstruct entry and exit to the muffler shop. The city council approved the deal which would harm this this guy's business.

The guy who built the concrete factory offered Marvin $250k in compensation for his property which Marvin agreed to. Then he reneged and asked for $375k, which he got! Then he reneged AGAIN on the deal and asked for a million. So they said $#@! this guy.

I am only half way in and haven't gotten to the sewage line costs and dealing with the the city council but already I hate this Marvin. He backed out of two deals he agreed that would have paid him 10x what he paid a year earlier. He's a dishonest guy who likes to be a victim. That's irrespective of what the government. Still watching though.

[TheTexan]

Still watching this. Was ready to be on this guys side because I know local city governments can be insanely corrupt with zoning. The guy bought a cheap landlocked property for $42k at a foreclosure auction. The person who owned the surrounding property wanted to put a concrete factory on the property which would obstruct entry and exit to the muffler shop. The city council approved the deal which would harm this this guy's business.

The guy who built the concrete factory offered Marvin $250k in compensation for his property which Marvin agreed to. Then he reneged and asked for $375k, which he got! Then he reneged AGAIN on the deal and asked for a million. So they said $#@! this guy.

I am only half way in and haven't gotten to the sewage line costs and dealing with the the city council but already I hate this Marvin. He backed out of two deals he agreed that would have paid him 10x what he paid a year earlier. He's a dishonest guy who likes to be a victim. That's irrespective of what the government. Still watching though.

Knowing nothing about this,, I'd bet more than even odds that they're lying about a dead man because they can.

[Matt Collins]

Unlike most places, the White House and surrounding forces in DC likely have hellfire missiles and armor piercing projectiles that could stop a killdozer.

[TheTexan]

Unlike most places, the White House and surrounding forces in DC likely have hellfire missiles and armor piercing projectiles that could stop a killdozer.

I think you overestimate the white house's security. A killdozer would be stopped, but not before doing extensive damage

[jmdrake]

Enjoy.

Then watch the classic Clint Eastwood film, The Gauntlet.

I saw that one on TV years ago. Awesome movie.

[jmdrake]

Unlike most places, the White House and surrounding forces in DC likely have hellfire missiles and armor piercing projectiles that could stop a killdozer.

And that's why the idea that a jumbo jet crashed into the Pentagon is farcical.

[jmdrake]

Still watching this. Was ready to be on this guys side because I know local city governments can be insanely corrupt with zoning. The guy bought a cheap landlocked property for $42k at a foreclosure auction. The person who owned the surrounding property wanted to put a concrete factory on the property which would obstruct entry and exit to the muffler shop. The city council approved the deal which would harm this this guy's business.

The guy who built the concrete factory offered Marvin $250k in compensation for his property which Marvin agreed to. Then he reneged and asked for $375k, which he got! Then he reneged AGAIN on the deal and asked for a million. So they said $#@! this guy.

I am only half way in and haven't gotten to the sewage line costs and dealing with the the city council but already I hate this Marvin. He backed out of two deals he agreed that would have paid him 10x what he paid a year earlier. He's a dishonest guy who likes to be a victim. That's irrespective of what the government. Still watching though.

I'm not halfway through yet but I have the OPPOSITE reaction. He wasn't looking to flip property. He was looking to build his dream business. He spent 150K in legal fees to try to keep it. Think of Nabal's vineyard in the Bible. It didn't matter that Ahab wanted to pay him more than the vineyard was worth. It was his.

At first the property sewage was through a makeshift septic tank. But the town insisted that he hook up to the sewage since he was running a business. They fined him daily for not being hooked up, then when he brought a check to them they wouldn't take it saying it wasn't for the right about. That's total BS. They could have taken the check and then billed him for the difference. To connect to the sewage he needed an easement from the same folks that wanted to force him to sell and, predictably, they refused to grant it. I can see why he was pissed. He wasn't perfect, but he had a reason to be pissed.

[Krugminator2]

I'm not halfway through yet but I have the OPPOSITE reaction. He wasn't looking to flip property. He was looking to build his dream business. He spent 150K in legal fees to try to keep it. Think of Nabal's vineyard in the Bible. It didn't matter that Ahab wanted to pay him more than the vineyard was worth. It was his.

At first the property sewage was through a makeshift septic tank. But the town insisted that he hook up to the sewage since he was running a business. They fined him daily for not being hooked up, then when he brought a check to them they wouldn't take it saying it wasn't for the right about. That's total BS. They could have taken the check and then billed him for the difference. To connect to the sewage he needed an easement from the same folks that wanted to force him to sell and, predictably, they refused to grant it. I can see why he was pissed. He wasn't perfect, but he had a reason to be pissed.

He never lost road access to his business. I found out thsomet was a total myth. It was just less visible. He wanted to use government to stop development of the concrete business. From a libertarian perspective hard to have sympathy for that.

He bought a landlocked property for ultracheap. Things that are cheap tend to price in costs like being land locked and needing sewage hookup. I don't have an answer on the sewage hookup. But he got two amazing offers for his property which he agreed to and welshed on. I don't think they forced him to sell as this was negotiated before zoning got approved. Once the zoning got approved he asked for a million for the property he paid 42k for. Hard to like that. He wasn't a person of integrity. The guy with the concrete business seemed very reasonable and patient to get a solution that was more than fair.

My takeaway was he was a lonely guy who needed meaning so he became a religious fanatic who thought God was telling him to wage jihad against his enemies. When he sold his property for 400k and his dad died he got tired of living so he went out in blaze of glory.

Not an exact analogy but this guy reminds me of someone who moves into a nice gated neighborhood and then lets his yard go to hell and then parks rusted out junk cars on the lawn with a ripped out bathtub randomly sitting there. And if his neighbors offer him 200k payment to clean up his property because it is lowering the value of their properties, he starts taking a righteous stand and refuses because he owns the land. In a sense he might be right to do as he pleases on his property but from a practical perspective his neighbors are being very fair with him. And if they pass an ordinance that says you can't gave crap on your property and then fine the guy and use courts to enforce the fine, it is hard to support the guy with the junk on his property.

[jmdrake]

He never lost road access to his business. I found out thsomet was a total myth. It was just less visible. He wanted to use government to stop development of the concrete business. From a libertarian perspective hard to have sympathy for that.

He bought a landlocked property for ultracheap. Things that are cheap tend to price in costs like being land locked and needing sewage hookup. I don't have an answer on the sewage hookup. But he got two amazing offers for his property which he agreed to and welshed on. I don't think they forced him to sell as this was negotiated before zoning got approved. Once the zoning got approved he asked for a million for the property he paid 42k for. Hard to like that. He wasn't a person of integrity. The guy with the concrete business seemed very reasonable and patient to get a solution that was more than fair.

My takeaway was he was a lonely guy who needed meaning so he became a religious fanatic who thought God was telling him to wage jihad against his enemies. When he sold his property for 400k and his dad died he got tired of living so he went out in blaze of glory.

Not an exact analogy but this guy reminds me of someone who moves into a nice gated neighborhood and then lets his yard go to hell and then parks rusted out junk cars on the lawn with a ripped out bathtub randomly sitting there. And if his neighbors offer him 200k payment to clean up his property because it is lowering the value of their properties, he starts taking a righteous stand and refuses because he owns the land. In a sense he might be right to do as he pleases on his property but from a practical perspective his neighbors are being very fair with him. And if they pass an ordinance that says you can't gave crap on your property and then fine the guy and use courts to enforce the fine, it is hard to support the guy with the junk on his property.

I never said he lost access to his business. But he was forced to use do a sewage hookup instead of a septic tank, he had to get an easement from the people that wanted the property and they refused. I don't see you making a very libertarian argument. Neighbors can force you to not use a septic tank but they are allowed to skirt the law and get spot zoning? Ummm...okay. It was clear through the documentary that he raised concerns that other neighbors had about the batch plant, so the batch plant was as much of a "bad neighbor" as he supposedly was. It sounds like the septic tank setup predated him and so it wasn't a problem until the town council decided to make it a problem. And "welching" on a deal is a non-starter for an argument. This isn't a bet. There is nothing illegal or unethical about changing your mind regarding selling something as long as the other side has not paid earnest money.

[Krugminator2]

I never said he lost access to his business. But he was forced to use do a sewage hookup instead of a septic tank, he had to get an easement from the people that wanted the property and they refused. I don't see you making a very libertarian argument. Neighbors can force you to not use a septic tank but they are allowed to skirt the law and get spot zoning? Ummm...okay. It was clear through the documentary that he raised concerns that other neighbors had about the batch plant, so the batch plant was as much of a "bad neighbor" as he supposedly was. It sounds like the septic tank setup predated him and so it wasn't a problem until the town council decided to make it a problem. And "welching" on a deal is a non-starter for an argument. This isn't a bet. There is nothing illegal or unethical about changing your mind regarding selling something as long as the other side has not paid earnest money.

I said he lost access to the property because that was an argument Heemeyer made. That was untrue. Most zoning laws probably shouldn't exist. As far as I remember the cost from the concrete place was dust getting on Heemeyer's property which they should pay for.

In my morality if you commit to something whether or not it is in writing you follow through on it. He didn't sign the paperwork to sell but he verbally committed twice and the second offer was one he proposed and was accepted. Then he tripled what he wanted. In my morality, backing out of that situation makes him a bad person. I personally would never do that and I judge someone who does.

This whole issue is a hard issue for libertarianism. I used the example of people with crap on their property because it doesn't have a neat and easy solution. I think Ronald Coase won a Nobel Prize for articulating this problem. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_...of_Social_Cost

[Anti Federalist]

OK then, let's make sure to celebrate August 2 instead.

"Roger Pion Day"

[jmdrake]

I said he lost access to the property because that was an argument Heemeyer made. That was untrue. Most zoning laws probably shouldn't exist. As far as I remember the cost from the concrete place was dust getting on Heemeyer's property which they should pay for.

In my morality if you commit to something whether or not it is in writing you follow through on it. He didn't sign the paperwork to sell but he verbally committed twice and the second offer was one he proposed and was accepted. Then he tripled what he wanted. In my morality, backing out of that situation makes him a bad person. I personally would never do that and I judge someone who does.

This whole issue is a hard issue for libertarianism. I used the example of people with crap on their property because it doesn't have a neat and easy solution. I think Ronald Coase won a Nobel Prize for articulating this problem. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_...of_Social_Cost

I didn't see him making that argument in the documentary but I might have missed it. Being fined $100 a day if he used his business without being hooked up to sewer constitutes a constructive taking so...really if he made that argument he was telling the truth.

As for business promises, so if you were selling your car and someone offered you $1,000 and before you sealed the deal was complete someone offered you $2,000, you would feel honor bound to only take $1,000 even if you weren't legally bound to do that? I think that's silly but you can do business like that if you wish.

[Krugminator2]

I didn't see him making that argument in the documentary but I might have missed it. Being fined $100 a day if he used his business without being hooked up to sewer constitutes a constructive taking so...really if he made that argument he was telling the truth.

As for business promises, so if you were selling your car and someone offered you $1,000 and before you sealed the deal was complete someone offered you $2,000, you would feel honor bound to only take $1,000 even if you weren't legally bound to do that? I think that's silly but you can do business like that if you wish.

I didn't fully understand the fine and I am not saying Heemeyer is wrong. But it took him being an unreasonable $#@! to get to that point.

If I agreed to sell a car for a price, there is no dollar amount another person could offer that would prevent me from selling to the agreed on price. In Heemeyer's he raised the bids himself because he never expected them to be accepted.

[jmdrake]

I didn't fully understand the fine and I am not saying Heemeyer is wrong. But it took him being an unreasonable $#@! to get to that point.

If I agreed to sell a car for a price, there is no dollar amount another person could offer that would prevent me from selling to the agreed on price. In Heemeyer's he raised the bids himself because he never expected them to be accepted.

Even if you found out that the person who offered you $1,000 knew that you could get much more than that but acted like your car was only worth $1,000? Okay. I don't call that honorable. I call it naive. Free market theory depends on each party doing what is best in his interest. Part of that is being able to renegotiate deals.

[Krugminator2]

Even if you found out that the person who offered you $1,000 knew that you could get much more than that but acted like your car was only worth $1,000? Okay. I don't call that honorable. I call it naive. Free market theory depends on each party doing what is best in his interest. Part of that is being able to renegotiate deals.

This would not take any thought or hesitation on my part. I don't agree to something unless I've done my homework. If I agree but make a mistake, I would consider it tuition.

[jmdrake]

This would not take any thought or hesitation on my part. I don't agree to something unless I've done my homework. If I agree but make a mistake, I would consider it tuition.

Okay. That's fine for you. But you can't impose that requirement on someone else.

[Anti Globalist]

Be nice if the American people can create an army of these and then proceed to head to DC.

[TheTexan]

Be nice if the American people can create an army of these and then proceed to head to DC.

Disguise them as 1800 flower delivery vehicles so as not to attract attention

[Anti Federalist]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1665369333726425088

[tod evans]

[Anti Globalist]

Be nice if the American people can create an army of these and then proceed to head to DC.

Still waiting for the American people to act on this.

[unknown]

$#@!, I missed it.