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Thread: David Hogg was at Home During the Parkland Shooting

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    Actually I changed my mind, a "well-regulated militia" would certainly have some screening process of who can and cannot be part of said militia. You would definitely have to amend the Constitution to blanket ban any firearm, which, ironically we do, but I don't think you would need to to justify background checks.
    That isn't what well regulated means and background checks are an infringement of the right to keep and bear arms.

    "The Right to Keep and Bear Arms Shall not be Infringed" is the operative phrase and it is absolute, even if the statement of the goal meant what you said it doesn't change anything.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by H_H View Post
    Country (homicide by firearm) (overall intentional homicide rate)
    US (3.5) (4.88)
    France (0.21) (1.58)
    UK (0.06) (0.92)
    Italy (0.35) (0.78)
    Australia (0.18) (0.98)
    Japan (0.00) (0.31)
    South Korea (0.02) (0.74)

    Excellent!

    I wonder if even more insight could be gained by further examining the copious data that is, for better or worse, at our fingertips?

    Does New Hampshire count as a first world country?

    Does Louisiana? (Should it?)

    I wonder if there's any difference in homicide rate between those two countries.

    And if so, hmm, I wonder why.
    I imagine rate of poverty is heavily correlated with rates of violent crime. But honestly, most of Louisiana probably doesn't qualify as first world lul.

    People will have fewer reasons to kill others if they are in economically sound situations, which is the prevailing circumstance in New Hampshire.

    There are hundreds of factors that contribute to the data, but easy availability of firearms is certainly an important one, and to not admit that is just disingenuous

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate

    Which lies?

    Country (homicide by firearm) (overall intentional homicide rate)
    US (3.5) (4.88)
    France (
    0.21) (1.58)
    UK (
    0.06) (0.92)
    Italy (0.35) (0.78)
    Australia (0.18) (0.98)
    Japan (0.00) (0.31)
    South Korea (0.02) (0.74)

    As you can see, no country's overall intentional homicide rate even comes close to the US homicide by firearm rate. An analysis of the data will tell you that murderers choose to do their murdering with other tools in those countries, but they are far less prolific.

    Or are the transparent sources of wikipedia lying to us? (conspiracy?)
    lol

    There is no correlation between gun ownership and gun murder rates. This is a mathematical and statistical fact. If you know how to do math, you can figure it out for yourself.

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That isn't what well regulated means and background checks are an infringement of the right to keep and bear arms.

    "The Right to Keep and Bear Arms Shall not be Infringed" is the operative phrase and it is absolute, even if the statement of the goal meant what you said it doesn't change anything.
    Please tell me what well regulated means then. I think it certainly means something along the lines of trained, monitored, etc. Aka a process in which a militia should be able to determine who can and cannot be a part of it



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    I imagine rate of poverty is heavily correlated with rates of violent crime. But honestly, most of Louisiana probably doesn't qualify as first world lul.

    People will have fewer reasons to kill others if they are in economically sound situations, which is the prevailing circumstance in New Hampshire.

    There are hundreds of factors that contribute to the data, but easy availability of firearms is certainly an important one, and to not admit that is just disingenuous
    It is a totally unimportant factor and you are the disingenuous one.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It is a totally unimportant factor and you are the disingenuous one.
    You literally just say things with no justification whatsoever. Pretty clear indication of someone who can't defend his position

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    Please tell me what well regulated means then. I think it certainly means something along the lines of trained, monitored, etc. during which process a militia should be able to determine who can and cannot be a part of it
    Well trained is what it means, people who own guns train themselves to shoot and stalk game, therefore our people are to be armed so that they can preserve the free nature of our state at a moment's notice without the need for remedial shooting lessons.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    You literally just say things with no justification whatsoever. Pretty clear indication of someone who can't defend his position
    The pot calling the china black.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by fcreature View Post
    lol

    There is no correlation between gun ownership and gun murder rates. This is a mathematical and statistical fact. If you know how to do math, you can figure it out for yourself.
    100% of gun murderers owned a gun. This is a mathematical and statistical fact.

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Fake News.
    .
    Perhaps but Fox is the only thing that even closely resembles conservatives. People hate freedom.

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    100% of gun murderers owned a gun. This is a mathematical and statistical fact.
    And they would have used something else if they didn't own a gun.

    Are we sure the virus isn't a sock puppet of Republican guy?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Well trained is what it means, people who own guns train themselves to shoot and stalk game, therefore our people are to be armed so that they can preserve the free nature of our state at a moment's notice without the need for remedial shooting lessons.
    If the people are to solely train themselves, then why stipulate their training at all in the Constitution? The Constitution is for limiting and enumerating the powers of government



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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    100% of gun murderers owned a gun. This is a mathematical and statistical fact.
    Actually many stole the gun, often from government employees.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    If the people are to solely train themselves, then why stipulate their training at all in the Constitution? The Constitution is for limiting and enumerating the powers of government
    Who said "solely"?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And they would have used something else if they didn't own a gun.

    Are we sure the virus isn't a sock puppet of Republican guy?
    Many of them would use another weapon, and they would also be far less successful with the other weapon. Did you already forget the data on the previous page?

    Anyways, this is an issue that 9/10 people agree on, so it's really not me you need to convince, it's the entire country. I think I said most of what there is to say on the issue, so have fun cya bb

  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    Many of them would use another weapon, and they would also be far less successful with the other weapon. Did you already forget the data on the previous page?
    Most murderers only kill one person and mass murderers have more success with bombs, those who want guns get them somehow in spite of laws, you are also ignoring the lives and freedoms saved by guns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    Anyways, this is an issue that 9/10 people agree on, so it's really not me you need to convince, it's the entire country. I think I said most of what there is to say on the issue, so have fun cya bb
    Fake news and the important thing is to be right not to be in the majority.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    An analysis of the data will tell you that murderers choose to do their murdering with other tools in those countries, but they are far less prolific.
    Are you trying to say that the murder rate in other countries is lower than the US?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate


    Guns actually save many times more people's lives than they take, especially when you exclude suicides.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    The only thing I can think of that might square all this up is if he was in his AP Environmental Studies class at around 2:30, heard a 'pop', thought it was a drill, then once they saw the headlines and realized it was a shooting, he started video taping his classmates on his phone, then when they let everybody out he rode his bike home, got his high quality camera, rode his bike back and did interviews with students.. but why would the students still be at school? Still doesn't make a lot of sense, and it would be interesting if somebody could rip a hole in this theory.

    I agree. Had he said I went home to my house, got my camera, and decided to ride back to the school, then there is no controversy. As it is he is recording first hand eyewitness accounts of the incident. He might not be his own story.

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That isn't what well regulated means and background checks are an infringement of the right to keep and bear arms.

    "The Right to Keep and Bear Arms Shall not be Infringed" is the operative phrase and it is absolute, even if the statement of the goal meant what you said it doesn't change anything.
    No it is not absolute. The supreme court has reaffirmed several times there are valid legal restrictions on who can purchase or keep guns, and in order to do that a background check is used to confirm a legal purchase. You may not like it but there is nothing to support your statement.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    100% of gun murderers owned a gun. This is a mathematical and statistical fact.
    That has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. Try again.



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  25. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    No it is not absolute. The supreme court has reaffirmed several times there are valid legal restrictions on who can purchase or keep guns, and in order to do that a background check is used to confirm a legal purchase. You may not like it but there is nothing to support your statement.
    SCOTUS is wrong.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    SCOTUS is wrong.
    Feels good to say but the time you've spent thinking and researching the constitution is zero comparatively.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  27. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    Feels good to say but the time you've spent thinking and researching the constitution is zero comparatively.
    SCOTUS doesn't care about the constitution, the founders were quite clear, the 2nd Amendment is absolute.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  28. #84
    I think I just learned how to play 4D chess. Bear with my conspiracy theorist mind...

    The deep state offs this kid and false flags it as some right wing militia/gun activist...Not saying his dad would sign off on it, of course, but if anything would "drive the point home" this would be it. It wouldn't matter how brainless, arrogant, or anything else this kid was. He'd be an effing martyr.
    "The journalist is one who separates the wheat from the chaff, and then prints the chaff." - Adlai Stevenson

    “I tell you that virtue does not come from money: but from virtue comes money and all other good things to man, both to the individual and to the state.” - Socrates

  29. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Original_Intent View Post
    I think I just learned how to play 4D chess. Bear with my conspiracy theorist mind...

    The deep state offs this kid and false flags it as some right wing militia/gun activist...Not saying his dad would sign off on it, of course, but if anything would "drive the point home" this would be it. It wouldn't matter how brainless, arrogant, or anything else this kid was. He'd be an effing martyr.
    They could fake the death and give him a new identity.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    Please tell me what well regulated means then. I think it certainly means something along the lines of trained, monitored, etc. Aka a process in which a militia should be able to determine who can and cannot be a part of it
    A well regulated militia during the time the 2nd Amendment was written, meant: local men, 14 yrs of age & up, ORGANIZED to protect their community. This was for any town or local principality.

    At this time, all men- and most women- could shoot a gun and were usually trained as children by their families. Communities were always ready for problems with nature, robber barons, rulers, etc.

    This was a well-known and natural form of protection for communities. They were not off to military school to learn how to shoot and kill together, and they were not part of the federal government.

    The 2nd Amendment was THE main reason that the states signed on to the Constitution. They knew full well the importance of being able to protect one's self, and one's family, from corrupt take-overs.
    There is no spoon.

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    100% of gun murderers owned a gun. This is a mathematical and statistical fact.
    100% of gun murderers used guns, perhaps. Ownership is less.

  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    Feels good to say but the time you've spent thinking and researching the constitution is zero comparatively.
    He's right. SCOTUS is wrong.

    Show me anything written by a founder to support your contention, which is that they intended to give the government the right to infringe.



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  34. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate

    Which lies?

    Country (homicide by firearm) (overall intentional homicide rate)
    US (3.5) (4.88)
    France (
    0.21) (1.58)
    UK (
    0.06) (0.92)
    Italy (0.35) (0.78)
    Australia (0.18) (0.98)
    Japan (0.00) (0.31)
    South Korea (0.02) (0.74)

    As you can see, no country's overall intentional homicide rate even comes close to the US homicide by firearm rate. An analysis of the data will tell you that murderers choose to do their murdering with other tools in those countries, but they are far less prolific.

    Or are the transparent sources of wikipedia lying to us? (conspiracy?)
    Fortunately, the calls for more gun control have also inspired several reports in the media noting that Switzerland, despite having one of the highest rates of gun ownership in the world, has an overall murder rate near zero. Among these was a March 24 report in Business Insider by science reporter Hilary Brueck. In her report, Brueck noted that Switzerland hasn’t had a mass shooting since 2001, when a man attacked the local parliament in Zug (the capital of the Swiss canton of the same name), killing 14 people and then himself

    The report went on to state that Switzerland, a nation of 8.3 million people, has about two million privately owned guns. Despite this large number of guns in private hands, the country had only 47 homicides in which firearms were used in 2016 and the country’s overall murder rate is near zero.

    More at: https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnew...p-worth-citing
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  35. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    100% of gun murderers used guns, perhaps. Ownership is less.
    100% of gun murderers also eat food.

    Guess @Influenza thinks we need to ban food too?

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